A new grower can’t figure out what this is: leaf symptom

[spina420]

Hello 420mag community.

I had a great success by asking for advices here so I ask you again here before I do anything wrong again.
I created a new soil from scratch because I am not in country where all cannabis products are available.

I repot them 10 days ago and It was fine till recently. My new leaves are not looking healthy.
It looked nitrogen or sulfur deficiency…. but i cant quite sure what is the problem here.

thank you!


my soil is:
peat moss- 40%
coco- 15%
perlite- 30%
worm casting 10%
regular soil-10%
chicken manure- 5 %

dolomite- a handful
epsom salt- a scoop
born mix (crab, borns)- a handful
neem cake- a handful
oil cake(phosphorus oriented, well fermented)-a handful
fish cake- a handful

I feed water PH 5.8 once or twice a week.

 

[bluter]

she's a bit hungry.

i'm not much help in the building soils dept. i'm gonna ask @Emilya in as i see she's on the board.
she's probably got something to help

 

[Backyardigan]

You running coco mix, that means you no can let your medium dry out... but with 20% soil you no need water as often??

 

[spina420]

Bluter!
yes I know they look hungry but I dunno what is.
I will wait on her!

 

[spina420]

You running coco mix, that means you no can let your medium dry out... but with 20% soil you no need water as often??

I feed them water they look drooping like last pic. Try not feeding them too much water.

 

[bluter]

You running coco mix, that means you no can let your medium dry out... but with 20% soil you no need water as often??

he built a soil. it's not coco. coco is just a component.

yes I know they look hungry but I dunno what is.

the mix is either missing something, or some of the nutrients in the mix are not being made available for the plant to use.
i'm guessing she wants some calcium and maybe a bit more nitrogen, but that's a bit of a guess based on the leaves.

i think @Emilya may be able figure out what's missing in the mix. there are others as well. i'm not sure who's about tonight.

 

[KingJohnC]

Please refer to How to Ask for Grow Support


REQUIRED INFORMATION FOR GROW SUPPORT

What Strain is it?
Is it Indica, Sativa or Hybrid? What percentages?
How Many Plants?
Is it in Vegetative or Flowering Stage?
If in Vegetative Stage... How Long?
If in Flowering Stage... How Long?
Indoor or Outdoor?
Soil or Hydro?
If Hydro, Reservoir size?
If Hydro, Reservoir Temperature?
If Hydro, what type of Medium?
If Hydro, what type of Setup?
If Soil... What is in your Mix?
If Soil... What Size Pot?
Size (Wattage) of Light? How Many?
Is it Air Cooled?
Temperature of Room/Cabinet?
RH of Room/Cabinet?
PH of Medium or Reservoir?
Any Pests?
How Often are you Watering?
Type and Strength of Fertilizers used?
Size or Square Footage of Room?

This information is necessary for accurate support to be given.

Is the soiless mixture moist or dry to the touch if you place your finger in the medium?
what are the day and night cycle temerature and humidity ?

The leaves are drooping i suspect from not being watered frequently enough. The plants leaves are displaying a nitrogen deficiency in your soiless mixture. Peat moss and coco coir do not by themselves release nutrients. Peat moss and coco coir are mostly inert grow mediums which require regular additional nutrients are added with watering to maintain the cannabis plants requirements.

 

[013]

nutes are out of range if the ph is 5.8 for soil grow… but also you may not be allowing enough time between watering sessions for soil to dry out…

 

[Bill284]

Hello 420mag community.

I had a great success by asking for advices here so I ask you again here before I do anything wrong again.
I created a new soil from scratch because I am not in country where all cannabis products are available.

I repot them 10 days ago and It was fine till recently. My new leaves are not looking healthy.
It looked nitrogen or sulfur deficiency…. but i cant quite sure what is the problem here.

thank you!


my soil is:
peat moss- 40%
coco- 15%
perlite- 30%
worm casting 10%
regular soil-10%
chicken manure- 5 %

dolomite- a handful
epsom salt- a scoop
born mix (crab, borns)- a handful
neem cake- a handful
oil cake(phosphorus oriented, well fermented)-a handful
fish cake- a handful

I feed water PH 5.8 once or twice a week.

Raise your ph to 6.3.
Let her dry longer between watering.
Coco is retaining water.
Dry dry dry before rewatering.
She will perk up and start eating.
Have you read this thread?

https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/proper-way-water-potted-plant.266274/

Stay safe
Bill

 

[SmokingWings]

he built a soil. it's not coco. coco is just a component.

the mix is either missing something, or some of the nutrients in the mix are not being made available for the plant to use.
i'm guessing she wants some calcium and maybe a bit more nitrogen, but that's a bit of a guess based on the leaves.

He built a soil, yes, but it is a weak one without enough of the organic componets to match the volume of components that are inorganic or slow decomposing.

From the first message:

my soil is:
peat moss- 40%
coco- 15%
perlite- 30%
worm casting 10%
regular soil-10%
chicken manure- 5 %


dolomite- a handful
epsom salt- a scoop
born mix (crab, borns)- a handful
neem cake- a handful
oil cake(phosphorus oriented, well fermented)-a handful
fish cake- a handful

Making a quality soil mix is similar to making a cake or a loaf of bread. If the recipe is not followed the cake or bread will not be any good when it is finished. Substitutions can be made for some of the ingredients but it has to be the right substitution. Forget to add one ingredient, even if it is something we think is minor and the cake or bread does does not taste good or is hard as a rock.

What is confusing is the first 6 ingredients are marked as percentage but when added up end up being over 100% of that measured part of the mix. Then the rest of the ingredients are measured by "handful" but we don't know the volume of the first part.

The way I see it the Peat Moss, Coco Coir and Perlite, in equal amounts can be mixed together if those are the ingredients you want to use. This should be no more than 2/3 of the total of the "soil mix". The other 1/3 should be the soil components.

Then it is time to add the amendments and mix those in.

We do not know what the "regular soil" is. It could be well aged compost or it could be something with a lot of clay or a lot of sand. I find nothing wrong with using "regular soil" but we need to know more about what your "regular soil" is to figure out the possible problem.

I notice that a Kelp Meal or a seaweed extract is missing. That will really help in the overall health of the plant.

Very possible that the plant has already used up most of the available nitrogen. Now the soil organisms cannot keep up with the increasing demand by the plant for the macro and micro nutrients. I figure the problem can be fixed by selecting the right nutrient to make the plant healthy till it is ready to harvest.

 

[KingJohnC]

I created a new soil from scratch because I am not in country where all cannabis products are available.

my soil is:
peat moss- 40%
coco- 15%
perlite- 30%
worm casting 10%
regular soil-10%
chicken manure- 5 %

dolomite- a handful
epsom salt- a scoop
born mix (crab, borns)- a handful
neem cake- a handful
oil cake(phosphorus oriented, well fermented)-a handful
fish cake- a handful

I feed water PH 5.8 once or twice a week.

In the soilless mixture that you are using the total volume of your ingredients are not added correctly the calculation does not add up.

40% + 15% + 30% = 85% soilless components
10% + 10% + 5% = 25% soil components


85% soilless + 10% soil + 10% soil + 5% soil = 110%? majority component are of soilless composition. Peat moss and coco coir do not significantly break down organic mater. Peat moss and coco coir are not sufficiently electro chemically active enough to support the same quantity of potential conversions as active healthy soil is able for the complex nutrients to break down and convert into usable nutrient forms available to the plants. Only active healthy soil will break down organic components into nutrient elements able to supply the plants requirements. The other amendments added after will not significantly break down in a peat moss and/or coco coir blend into nutrients usable to the cannabis plants. Dolomite calcium carbonate must first be broken down into a usable rock dust and then be converted to a chelated mineral form to allow the plants to be able and absorb the nutrients. In the list you have provided I am not seeing you list any major source of nitrogen to supply the plants requirements.

When a peat moss and/or coco coir soilless mixture is used outside nutrients must be added to the water supplied on an ongoing and continual basis to keep up with cannabis plants requirements.

 

[Emilya Green]

Bluter!
yes I know they look hungry but I dunno what is.
I will wait on her!

The step you neglected was "cooking" that soil mix, or composting it for 3 months prior to use, but you probably have too little actual soil to do this. Your nutrients are not going to be available to the plants because of this and with the mix you used, its not really a soil anyway. You're not going to be able to go without outside nutrients in this grow, even if you did add a bit more real soil and composted it correctly. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you need to get some nutrients in there. Maybe I can convince to use organic nutrients, such as @GeoFlora Nutrients, to be able to still use this soil, while also getting the needed microbial life and nutrients in there by topdressing. Without something like that, I'm afraid that this grow is going to have problems. As other responders have told you, this is not actually a soil... it is a mostly soilless mix.

Soil recipes are not something you can just mix up on the fly and expect them to work. Subcool, Coots, and others took a lot of trial and error and getting ratios right before they were accepted as usable recipes. The lack of humus in your mix is a big problem. If you still have an uppotting left to do, I would center in on a good store bought supersoil to put in the container with your present mix and at least you would have something that minerally could support your plants, without additional composting. Put it in the bottom third to half of your container and use your present mix to support and hold up the plant in the top half of the container. You can save this grow, but not without some fairly drastic modifications.

 

[SmokingWings]

40% + 15% + 30% = 85% soilless components
10% + 10% + 5% = 25% soil components

My way of looking at a soil recipe is that the "5% of Chicken Manure" should not be included with the other soil, often called Humus, ingredients. It should be included with the amendments instead.

Oh, by the way, @spina420 mentioned this in the first message.

I am not in country where all cannabis products are available.

None of the ingredients used in developing a soil mix is a cannabis product. They are all ingredients used by farmers, florists, gardeners, people who grow flowers on their porch or in a window. None of them, that I know of, is used exclusively for growing Cannabis.

 

[spina420]

thank you all for guidance! Sorry about my mistake in component ratio. I was HI as F when I wrote this.
thank you Emilya for let me know what I should do to fix the problem. I’ll start making my soil by following recipe, but meanwhile I’ll get the nutes you recommended from international ec.

by the way, I cant find blood meal here. What would be the substitution?

 

[spina420]

The lack of humus in your mix is a big problem. If you still have an uppotting left to do, I would center in on a good store bought supersoil to put in the container with your present mix and at least you would have something that minerally could support your plants, without additional composting. Put it in the bottom third to half of your container and use your present mix to support and hold up the plant in the top half of the container. You can save this grow, but not without some fairly drastic modifications.

I realized that I also added humus but i forgot to mention it.
I also found that I only can access to GH only. can I use it to soilless/soil growing?

 

[Emilya Green]

I realized that I also added humus but i forgot to mention it.
I also found that I only can access to GH only. can I use it to soilless/soil growing?

I wouldnt... look for another organic topdressing type nutrient, complete with microbes. Don't go backwards and use hydroponic nutes.

 

[Emilya Green]

thank you all for guidance! Sorry about my mistake in component ratio. I was HI as F when I wrote this.
thank you Emilya for let me know what I should do to fix the problem. I’ll start making my soil by following recipe, but meanwhile I’ll get the nutes you recommended from international ec.

by the way, I cant find blood meal here. What would be the substitution?

try a thin layer of USED coffee grounds right below the surface... no more than 1/4 inch

 

[KingJohnC]

The current mixture that you are using is only 15% - 25% soil and soil component based, if this mixture had aged and activated the mixture would still only be capable of supplying 15% -25% of your cannabis plants nutrient requirements. With a limited 15% - 25% or less ability to convert complex raw materials into simple nutrient in usable forms for your cannabis plants the majority of the supplemental ingredients will not be able to be converted into usable nutrients. Unfortunately tomato plants do not produce large harvest when given restricted nutrients, neither do cannabis plants produce large harvest when given restricted nutrients.

I can present you with 3 viable options should you wish to correct the nutrient deficiency and have a successful cannabis harvest.

1) Locate a source of organic active soil suitable for use and transplant your cannabis plants into this new grow medium. I suggest you contact garden nursery's and grow store in your region and determine your options.

2) Transplant your plants into a new soilless mixture while using a multi part nutrient system properly mixed in a pH adjusted water nutrient solution.

3) Continue to use your existing soilless mixture while using multi part grow nutrients properly mixed in pH adjusted water solution.


You mentioned General Hydroponics nutrients are available in your region. I use the General Hydroponics Flora Grow series nutrients with a peat moss, perlite and vermiculite based grow medium with other minor amendments. You are able to see my harvested results that this option may grow potent cannabis medicine in the links to my completed grow journals in my signature.

You want pH 5.8 for hydroponic and soilless (peat moss and coco coir) and pH 6.5 for soil.

Here is a nutrient availability chart

Here is a cannabis leaf deficiency chart

here is the Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver and the Plant Abuse Chart

Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver: Pictorial

Plant Abuse Chart

 

[Slammy Pajama]

try a thin layer of USED coffee grounds right below the surface... no more than 1/4 inch

Yep! I regularly give mine the grounds and they are loving it.

 

[SmokingWings]

I’ll start making my soil by following recipe, but meanwhile I’ll get the nutes you recommended from international ec.

by the way, I cant find blood meal here. What would be the substitution?

It would not hurt at all if you typed up the recipe you are thinking about using before getting the various ingredients. A good soil recipe is a balancing act because the plants have specific needs while in the vegetating stage and and different needs just before and while it is in the flowering stage.

As to the Blood Meal you might not need to worry about that. The main reason some growers use Blood Meal is because of the high levels of nitrogen it contains and because that nitrogen is easily available to the plant. You can get nitrogen from the 'used' coffee grounds. Do not use fresh grounds that have not been used to brew up coffee for those that drink it. They should be already 'used'.

The Chicken Manure that you mentioned using in your first soil mix also has nitrogen but it is a lower level. That can be used. A bonus about the Chicken Manure is that while it can be approximately 1/2 of the nitrogen of Blood Meal it does have a good level of Phosphorus and Potassium which are going to be important when the plants start to enter the flowering stage. By that time the plant needs less nitrogen.

I have top dressed with Chicken Manure before and one thing I noticed is that once it started absorbing water and dissolving the Mycelium would start to grow which is a good thing for natural or organic styles of soil growing.