Yeah, I never mentioned densities when I said 2-3 cups. What you use and it's density certainly has an impact on how much. I just didn't want to veer off down that math/science rabbit hole.
Good to hear!
Building A Better Soil: Demonstrations & Discussions Of Organic Soil Recipes
- Thread starter SweetSue
- Start date
Yeah, I never mentioned densities when I said 2-3 cups. What you use and it's density certainly has an impact on how much. I just didn't want to veer off down that math/science rabbit hole.
Good to hear!
yankeetoker
Well-Known Member
Base soil (per PeeJay)
-10 gallons Peat Moss
- 2 gallons Coast of Maine Lobster Compost
- 4 gallons Perlite
- ½ cup Espoma Garden Lime
- 2 ¼ cups Azomite
Baby Soil (modified Dennise's mix) 3/28
- 2 gallons Base Soil
- 1 cup Humus/Manure
- ¼ cup Down to Earth Vegan Mix
- 3 TSP Endomyco
Veg Soil (modified Dennise's mix) 3/28
- 10 gallons Base Soil
- 6 cups Humus/Manure
- 2 ½ quarts Coast of Maine Lobster Compost
- ½ Quart EWC
- 3 ½ cups Down to Earth Vegan Mix
- 2 TSP Endomyco
- 1 cup Espoma Garden Lime
Bloom Soil 3/25 (amended 3/28 per bobrown's instructions)
- 10 gallons Peat Moss
- 3 ½ gallons Perlite
- 1 ¼ gallons EWC
- 1 ¾ gallons Coast of Maine Lobster Compost
- 1 gallon Humus/Manure
- 1 quart Down to Earth Vegan Mix
- 2 cups Azomite
- 2 ¼ cups Espoma Garden Lime
- 2 cups Kelp Meal
- 2 cups Gypsum
- 2 cups Bone Meal
Still didn't get any rock dust, can it be added to soil later? How long before I can actually plant into these soils? My current plants in veg are in the base soil. I have watered using fish fertilizer to give them a shot of nitrogen, but this soil really doesn't have much nutritional value. I would like to get them in bloom soil as soon as possible.
YT
-10 gallons Peat Moss
- 2 gallons Coast of Maine Lobster Compost
- 4 gallons Perlite
- ½ cup Espoma Garden Lime
- 2 ¼ cups Azomite
Baby Soil (modified Dennise's mix) 3/28
- 2 gallons Base Soil
- 1 cup Humus/Manure
- ¼ cup Down to Earth Vegan Mix
- 3 TSP Endomyco
Veg Soil (modified Dennise's mix) 3/28
- 10 gallons Base Soil
- 6 cups Humus/Manure
- 2 ½ quarts Coast of Maine Lobster Compost
- ½ Quart EWC
- 3 ½ cups Down to Earth Vegan Mix
- 2 TSP Endomyco
- 1 cup Espoma Garden Lime
Bloom Soil 3/25 (amended 3/28 per bobrown's instructions)
- 10 gallons Peat Moss
- 3 ½ gallons Perlite
- 1 ¼ gallons EWC
- 1 ¾ gallons Coast of Maine Lobster Compost
- 1 gallon Humus/Manure
- 1 quart Down to Earth Vegan Mix
- 2 cups Azomite
- 2 ¼ cups Espoma Garden Lime
- 2 cups Kelp Meal
- 2 cups Gypsum
- 2 cups Bone Meal
Still didn't get any rock dust, can it be added to soil later? How long before I can actually plant into these soils? My current plants in veg are in the base soil. I have watered using fish fertilizer to give them a shot of nitrogen, but this soil really doesn't have much nutritional value. I would like to get them in bloom soil as soon as possible.
YT
YT
looking pretty good. Can you source some neem cake meal?? I would add that in at 1-2 cups to your mix and if you can also get Karanja meal, mix those together for your 1-2 cups. Neem helps with a lot of heartache later on .... you will get a TON of help with critters in the soil and flying into the soil and the microherd go crazy with this. Rock dust can be added in at any time. In fact when I switch from VEG to flower I add in a 1/4 cup or so along with EWC and a bit of compost to keep the ball rolling.
Neem and Karanja source - direct from India and is the best in the world - organic FTW
Also to your mix you need some lime that is ready to be used - epsoma is OK, I like to use Oyster Shell Flour and/or Calcium Carbonate for my lime source. These are much less $$ than brand name goodies. Epsoma is a good brand .... I just don't like spending a lot of money for their products. That's just me. You have it on hand use it.
If you don't have any rock dust/granite dust - see if there's a local stone yard that cuts stone - they will have rock dust and usually will look at you like you're a nut cake but will gladly give it to you free if the have it laying around... Just explain that it's a GREAT amendment for your garden.
In a pinch azomite works.. I used to just add in azomite and switched to basalt/granite dust when I got some and still top dress in a Tbs or 2 of Azomite from time to time in my no-till pots.
regarding Guano's... as Celt mentioned already its got a SHIT TON of P - too much Phosphorus and that impacts the soil microbe population and will affect yield. Two sided sword - you want Phosphorus for bud production BUT your microbes can't handle too much of it.
You have to think whats best for the microbes. The rest will follow. Healthy soil = healthy plants = big flowers = happy happy gardener.
For the folks that experience compaction - try a 1/4 cup of gypsum - just top dress and water in next watering. That will help. Calcium also helps with compaction and it should be in your base mix to help buffer the PH of the Peat Moss. More calcium the lighter your soil, but don't over do it. Easy home recipe for calcium is egg shells ground up and put into a cup of organic apple cider vinegar, let sit for a few weeks = calcium ready for soil.
Just egg shells wont help short term - they take years to break down. We stopped adding them to our worm and compost bins. Subbed in crab shell meal ... 50# bag for like $10 if that.
I bought the neem oil under the idea it would be good for the soil--- and regretted it 5 minutes later.
I kept the neem oil in the cupboard until using about 2/3 of a quart as a pest suppressing foliar over the last several months.
When it gets low, I will buy more
yankeetoker
Well-Known Member
Good morning Canyon
Definitely add DE to your soil mix, it is one of the best sources of silicone for your plants. Silicone is used to promote strong stems in plants.
How much DE should be added per cu.ft.?
YT
yankeetoker
Well-Known Member
YT
looking pretty good. Can you source some neem cake meal?? I would add that in at 1-2 cups to your mix and if you can also get Karanja meal, mix those together for your 1-2 cups. Neem helps with a lot of heartache later on .... you will get a TON of help with critters in the soil and flying into the soil and the microherd go crazy with this. Rock dust can be added in at any time. In fact when I switch from VEG to flower I add in a 1/4 cup or so along with EWC and a bit of compost to keep the ball rolling.
Grabbing some neem cake/karanja meal mix and will add it to the mix...
Neem and Karanja source - direct from India and is the best in the world - organic FTW
Also to your mix you need some lime that is ready to be used - epsoma is OK, I like to use Oyster Shell Flour and/or Calcium Carbonate for my lime source. These are much less $$ than brand name goodies. Epsoma is a good brand .... I just don't like spending a lot of money for their products. That's just me. You have it on hand use it.
Initially added the garden lime, can I add come oyster shell flour as well or will it make the pH too high in combination with what was already added?
If you don't have any rock dust/granite dust - see if there's a local stone yard that cuts stone - they will have rock dust and usually will look at you like you're a nut cake but will gladly give it to you free if the have it laying around... Just explain that it's a GREAT amendment for your garden.
Got some and added 2-3 cups to the mix
In a pinch azomite works.. I used to just add in azomite and switched to basalt/granite dust when I got some and still top dress in a Tbs or 2 of Azomite from time to time in my no-till pots.
regarding Guano's... as Celt mentioned already its got a SHIT TON of P - too much Phosphorus and that impacts the soil microbe population and will affect yield. Two sided sword - you want Phosphorus for bud production BUT your microbes can't handle too much of it.
You have to think whats best for the microbes. The rest will follow. Healthy soil = healthy plants = big flowers = happy happy gardener.
For the folks that experience compaction - try a 1/4 cup of gypsum - just top dress and water in next watering. That will help. Calcium also helps with compaction and it should be in your base mix to help buffer the PH of the Peat Moss. More calcium the lighter your soil, but don't over do it. Easy home recipe for calcium is egg shells ground up and put into a cup of organic apple cider vinegar, let sit for a few weeks = calcium ready for soil.
Just egg shells wont help short term - they take years to break down. We stopped adding them to our worm and compost bins. Subbed in crab shell meal ... 50# bag for like $10 if that.
Do I need to add crab shell meal and oyster shell flour?
YTSoil Project
Things finally got mixed Wednesday and I up potted a tomato plant into it yesterday morning. It looks happy for now. If it dies I will up pot another in ten days or so.
I took TDS and Ph readings of runoff as well as soil Ph probe readings for the tomato. I will try to take daily readings until it dies or the mix stabilizes. The initial runoff was Ph 6.4 and TDS 5650ppm. Tonight the soil Ph reading is 6.9.
I decided to weigh the amendments and do the math on the NPK. Now that I have it charted, I am thinking it would be simpler to decide how much NPK you want total in grams and adjust what you add by weight and release rates.
Thanks for all the help everyone.
Best
This is the final mix without the rock dust. I had to order it.
For the base. It adds up to 24 gallons.
8 gal. peat
7 gal. perlite
5 gal. castings
1 gal. NM Compost Products (Recycled yard trimmings, stable bedding, horse manure. Very woody)
1 gal. Back to Earth Cotton Burr Blend Compost (Feedstock, Hardwood, Cotton burs +)
1 gal. Ferti Lome (Peat, Perlite, Lime, Wetting agent. That is all, mostly peat.)
1 gal. Bush Master Coco Loco
Amendments Just shy of a Gallon.
4 cups Lime 1500gr @35-40%_____ Ca 525-600gr
½ cup Epsom salt_____________________ 130gr
½ cup Diatomaceous earth _______________50gr
Volum, item, NPK, gros weight, NPK gram totals
2 cups alfalfa meal ______2-0-0___260gr____5.2-0.0-0.0
4 cups kelp meal _______ 1-0-2___800gr____8.0-0.0-16.0
1/2 cup Neem pellets ____2.75-1-1_80gr_____2.2-0.8-0.8
1 cup Crab shell ________2-3-0___120gr_____2.4-3.6-0.0
1 cup Frass ____________1-1-1____80gr_____0.8-0.8-0.8
1 cup rock phosphate ____0-3-0____280gr____0.0-8.4-0.0
½ cup Guano __________0-5-0____180gr____0.0-9.0-0.0
________________________________________________
Totals ________________________1800gr__18.6-22.6-17.6
Things finally got mixed Wednesday and I up potted a tomato plant into it yesterday morning. It looks happy for now. If it dies I will up pot another in ten days or so.
I took TDS and Ph readings of runoff as well as soil Ph probe readings for the tomato. I will try to take daily readings until it dies or the mix stabilizes. The initial runoff was Ph 6.4 and TDS 5650ppm. Tonight the soil Ph reading is 6.9.
I decided to weigh the amendments and do the math on the NPK. Now that I have it charted, I am thinking it would be simpler to decide how much NPK you want total in grams and adjust what you add by weight and release rates.
Thanks for all the help everyone.
Best
This is the final mix without the rock dust. I had to order it.
For the base. It adds up to 24 gallons.
8 gal. peat
7 gal. perlite
5 gal. castings
1 gal. NM Compost Products (Recycled yard trimmings, stable bedding, horse manure. Very woody)
1 gal. Back to Earth Cotton Burr Blend Compost (Feedstock, Hardwood, Cotton burs +)
1 gal. Ferti Lome (Peat, Perlite, Lime, Wetting agent. That is all, mostly peat.)
1 gal. Bush Master Coco Loco
Amendments Just shy of a Gallon.
4 cups Lime 1500gr @35-40%_____ Ca 525-600gr
½ cup Epsom salt_____________________ 130gr
½ cup Diatomaceous earth _______________50gr
Volum, item, NPK, gros weight, NPK gram totals
2 cups alfalfa meal ______2-0-0___260gr____5.2-0.0-0.0
4 cups kelp meal _______ 1-0-2___800gr____8.0-0.0-16.0
1/2 cup Neem pellets ____2.75-1-1_80gr_____2.2-0.8-0.8
1 cup Crab shell ________2-3-0___120gr_____2.4-3.6-0.0
1 cup Frass ____________1-1-1____80gr_____0.8-0.8-0.8
1 cup rock phosphate ____0-3-0____280gr____0.0-8.4-0.0
½ cup Guano __________0-5-0____180gr____0.0-9.0-0.0
________________________________________________
Totals ________________________1800gr__18.6-22.6-17.6
Timmo
Well-Known Member
I haven't made my way through this entire thread yet, so I apologize if someone's already posted this, but Oregon State University has a soil amendment calculator that some might find useful. You put in all your amendments and their nutrient values on a "per 1,000 sq. ft" basis, and it tells you your total NPK plus the major micros. Organic Fertilizer and Cover Crop Calculator | Small Farms Programs
mouser
Well-Known Member
I have seen multiple times in journals how lambs quarter is a beneficial co-inhabitant...has anyone incorporated this into their grows on purpose?? ..or is it just a happy accident. Seeds seem readily available. 
kelticBlue
Well-Known Member
I have seen multiple times in journals how lambs quarter is a beneficial co-inhabitant...has anyone incorporated this into their grows on purpose?? ..or is it just a happy accident. Seeds seem readily available.
I think I first saw the Lambs Q on BAR's journal. Pretty sure BAR had it to eat in salad, like spinach. SweetSue had a sprout a couple of weeks ago. Pretty sure on purpose.
I think it can be composted into a beneficial for the soil. I used it that way, have never grown it though, it grows wild in my neck of the woods around late summer it is all over here.
Cheers!
mouser
Well-Known Member
In BAR's journal it was googled...and found to refreshen contaminated soil. Seems like an awesome and natural, edible, caretaker to incorporate to a LOS system...understanding of course that I have just the rudimentary knowledge here. Just pulling something out of my rear...we have worms, why not a cleansing salad green too?
Timmo
Well-Known Member
I'm very interested in the co-planting idea. Are there other plants besides lamb's q that are known to be beneficial to our girls?
kelticBlue
Well-Known Member
I don't have the 'details' or the 'whys' but Scallions also known as bunching onions are good for the root zone and as a companion. Not everything can be a companion but I searched out a bunch and Scallion is the only one I have going at this moment as a companion. I do have seperate plantings of Aloe, Lemon balm, and Amaranth. ( hope the spelling are correct).
You can see it in the corner it grows very well, I planted it from seed. I have to keep chopping it back as it grows too tall for my lights.
lemme try another piccy, hard to find a good one right now. the scallion on the left ; - )
You can see it in the corner it grows very well, I planted it from seed. I have to keep chopping it back as it grows too tall for my lights.
lemme try another piccy, hard to find a good one right now. the scallion on the left ; - )
For months, I've been growing green onions from the grocery aisle in a few of my large pots.
I don't feed the old onion tops to the worms and they aren't much of a moisture mulch. I pretty much ignore them.
The theory was that scallions help mask aromas. I can't say they make any difference at all to the grow.
I don't feed the old onion tops to the worms and they aren't much of a moisture mulch. I pretty much ignore them.
The theory was that scallions help mask aromas. I can't say they make any difference at all to the grow.
Timmo
Well-Known Member
The only aroma masking I'm concerned about involves bugs, but I bet they're not crazy about the smell of scallions. I, on the other hand, love it. And they're delicious to boot, so I'm always happy to grow more, even if it doesn't make difference to the plants.
I believe the bunching onions were added for a symbiotic continual myco relationship.
Mint plants can be used to mask some smell and deter bugs. In my experience, companion planting isn't worth any extra effort, as they don't get enough light indoors. Outside, all my beds get companion plants, but indoors my flowering plants are much bigger than the 15g pots and I don't get a lot of light under the canopy. I always have random seeds sprouting in my pots from reusing my soil.
Currently I have a 2' tall plant in veg with 5 or 6 tomato plants around 4-6" tall. I've had to defoliate and not train the cannabis plant to keep the tomatoes alive. In a few more weeks, I'll take clones and cut the cannabis plant at the base of the stem, then transplant the tomatoes to be planted outside. I get better growth when not starting them together. I've grown tomatoes in a separate pot next to the other plants, and they kept up just fine.
Growing with a shorter veg or autos might lessen the problem, I don't know.
Mint plants can be used to mask some smell and deter bugs. In my experience, companion planting isn't worth any extra effort, as they don't get enough light indoors. Outside, all my beds get companion plants, but indoors my flowering plants are much bigger than the 15g pots and I don't get a lot of light under the canopy. I always have random seeds sprouting in my pots from reusing my soil.
Currently I have a 2' tall plant in veg with 5 or 6 tomato plants around 4-6" tall. I've had to defoliate and not train the cannabis plant to keep the tomatoes alive. In a few more weeks, I'll take clones and cut the cannabis plant at the base of the stem, then transplant the tomatoes to be planted outside. I get better growth when not starting them together. I've grown tomatoes in a separate pot next to the other plants, and they kept up just fine.
Growing with a shorter veg or autos might lessen the problem, I don't know.
- Thread starter
- #717
36 is correct - the bunching onions are more for the symbiotic relationship with the myco. In theory, if the scallions are growing healthy and strong the cannabis will be too. The odor control is sporadic, in my experience, so success here may be somewhat dictated by choice of strain.
- Thread starter
- #718
I have seen multiple times in journals how lambs quarter is a beneficial co-inhabitant...has anyone incorporated this into their grows on purpose?? ..or is it just a happy accident. Seeds seem readily available.
Mine and B A R's were happy accidents.
Marigolds
kelticBlue
Well-Known Member
My Bunching onion really grew very well. I have since chopped it back but it still goes on This is a shot of it from a while back before I chopped it.
I really don't plan on doing any intentional companion planting but this sucker keeps going strong no matter how I treat it, often badly.
Grate Day - - -> : - )
EdiT: I used to grow marigolds with/next to my tomatos, my marigolds were 3 feet high with blooms as big as softballs, loved them plants, great big balls of yellow happiness.
I really don't plan on doing any intentional companion planting but this sucker keeps going strong no matter how I treat it, often badly.
Grate Day - - -> : - )
EdiT: I used to grow marigolds with/next to my tomatos, my marigolds were 3 feet high with blooms as big as softballs, loved them plants, great big balls of yellow happiness.
