Cal or Mag? Too little or too much?

TheFertilizer

TheFertilizer

Well-Known Member
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Both are clones started about the same time, the one that's showing more stress was rooted sooner. Clearly it's a calcium and/or magnesium problem, but I can't decide if I think it's lockout or deficiency.

Soil: Happy Frog, 2nd use, re-amended with 1/4 cup per cu. foot Kelp Meal and Seabird Guano
Nutrients: Flora Nova Bloom and CalMag+ pH'd to 6.5 to a PPM of 330 (about 230 ppm FN, 100 ppm CalMag+)

It's possible I wasn't getting very good pH measurements before a week ago since I had to order a new pen. Also had some russet mites on them but haven't been able to spot any again at 120x for a few weeks. Running NoPest Strips and spraying with neem. Temperatures have been a little warm, 75-80 F and humidity pretty low at 40%.

Between the calcium and magnesium in the Flora Nova Bloom, in the CalMag+ and the calcium I put into the soil in the guano, I'm wondering if it could be too much rather than not enough. I also usually never run as strong as 300 PPM this early on, but this cut grows so fast I figured it could take it.

CalMag+ doesn't have a super high concentration of magnesium in it either. I'm thinking perhaps I should add some epsom salts as well since it seems more magnesium related, but wanted to ask opinions first. Maybe there's something else I'm not seeing.

I've ran this cut a lot and usually don't see this happen until late into veg, can never correct it, but it never really gets bad enough to prevent flower and I've had decent harvests despite it. Just seems way too early for it to be happening now.
 
Magnesium, more. Where I'd start from looks but you know more, like feeds timing medium lights fans etc etc lol...
 
Oy, the plants still look like they're losing color. I transplanted them recently and gave plain water because I figured the fresh soil would have enough in it, but I don't know why I was thinking that since I was having the deficiency right out of hte gate with the same soil. Just dumb-ness I think. But now I'm not sure if I should water with some more epsom salts solution, or wait for them to root into these pots and let them get a little dry so I don't over water. Seems like the mag deficit is more pressing than over-watering right now.

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Hi Fertilizer

I would kick up both Cal & Mag - your discolouring in my experience means your plant is lacking.
 
irie lion said:
Hi Fertilizer

I would kick up both Cal & Mag - your discolouring in my experience means your plant is lacking.
Click to expand...
Yeah I'm thinking I need to try to apply it foliar since the root-zone is in such a precarious state right now. Just not really sure how much cal-mag to apply by foliar or if I should use my Flora Nova bloom since it's a complete nutrient with Cal and Mag in it. (at 2% and 4% respectively iirc)
 
Both will help so up to you what you'd like to do.
It will for sure not harm your plants giving them some bloom.
But your roots should be ready to receive some CalMag.
 
I’m not sure how much nutes the soil is holding given it’s the 2nd run, but in coco for plants that size usually at 5-600ppm. I’ve become pretty anti-calmag because it’s too generic and doesn’t seem to work well with LEDs, so I’m instead making the switch to pure calcium and salt (I’m going sea, but epsom works great too).

My guidance is bump up nutes, maybe a few granules of epsom salt and your calmag into a solution and just water the plants normally. May burn them a bit and look down for a few days, but should fix the issue. Nothing’s going to die and you can still top them down to get rid of ugly growth.
 
I hack my plants pretty good my friend, and the good news is weed loves to grow back.

Same plant, top pic is from a few weeks ago and bottom is today (left side is also graft that took hold) and I’ve also cut clones over the past weeks. You can def salvage your plants, all cosmetic and can be fixed once nutes are dialed in.
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I have just seen things for South like this with recycled soil before. I was never really sure what cause it before but I could never get it corrected. I think I might not give up on them but should probably take some clones as backup cause I really like this cut.

Also, started foliar feeding with some kelp meal tea. I am hoping the wide range of stuff in it will help supplement better than just CalMag alone, and also avoid burning like Flora Nova might.
 
Can you get stuff called ReCharge where you’re located? It’s microbes and healthy bacteria, along with some other good stuff that costs about $25. If you can, I think it will be a good investment.

If I were you I’d top down to just above the 2nd or third node, and use everything above that point as cuttings for clones. That way you can kill 2 birds with one stone and then dial in your calmag/ nutes for your soil. The plants have a healthy rootstock and base, so you don’t want to waste that growth.

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Growca2268 said:
Can you get stuff called ReCharge where you’re located? It’s microbes and healthy bacteria, along with some other good stuff that costs about $25. If you can, I think it will be a good investment.

If I were you I’d top down to just above the 2nd or third node, and use everything above that point as cuttings for clones. That way you can kill 2 birds with one stone and then dial in your calmag/ nutes for your soil. The plants have a healthy rootstock and base, so you don’t want to waste that growth.

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Click to expand...
I can probably get some in a couple weeks. I already have some beneficial microbe stuff I could try feeding the soil. It's called EarthJuice Catalyst. Ever heard of it?

I like the sounds of your plan. I have never topped a plant that far down before, they shoot grow right back up? I figured they'd be really permanently brancy and squat afterwards.
 
I haven’t, but EJ is good, so if the ingredients are similar it should work fine.

Yep, the plant will shoot right back up with two meristems instead of one... unless you train them/ tie them down as they grow. I’m purposely leaving growth I’d normally cut off, as far down on my flowering plants as possible right now because when they’re ready I’m going to cut the stalk right above those nodes and re-veg/ flower them again. Will probably do it 3-4 times if I can keep growth low enough - called regeneration and something I learned about recently and want to try. Your plants don’t look bad man, all fixable stuff, and will crush with just a little adjustment and fine tuning.
 
Oh dear what's going on here man? Yes you should have watered in with Epsom salts.. looks like something more than just mag but then again, I've never left a leaf that long to watch the necrosis it shows whilst dying.. I have lol but they just yellow and die, never had those black spots, which you'd think I would have, being in chook shit..
 
TheFertilizer said:
Well things are still looking kinda grim, are these necrotic spots normal with a CalMag deficiency? I kinda feel like maybe I should just take some clones off the healthier looking one and start over in new soil.
Click to expand...

Hi mate, i wouldn't bother taking cuttings as they will be harder to root when deficient, and still have the deficiency once rooted. You would be better off saving your plants and getting them healthy again.

I've not long decided to stop using AN calmag, i think my plants look healthier with canna calcium.

The purpling stems are typical of Mg deficiency or lockout. I grow in coco so flushing might be different, but I'd give them a flush with a low ppm solution like 0.3 e.c
Or get canna flush or AN flawless finish and flush with that.

I would also spray with the epsom salts, haven't used them in ages so have a look what concentration others on the forum are using. Make sure to dissolve them in some hot water before adding them to the rest of the cool water.

Maybe try lowering your ph a bit.. I was learning from an organic gardener the other year and he was giving the plants 5.5 PH. In organic supersoil he conditioned himself.

That's the best advice i can give, flush your plants, spray them, and control the PH.
 
I'm thinking manganese.. look into that.. flush the crap outta the roots.. :rofl::passitleft: lets see if you notice anything :rofl: correct ph.
 

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