Coco A+B nutrients too high in N?

[tokeycones]

Hey fellow growers, I was recently growing with Nutrifield full range of coco a+b, I noticed that when i increased ec in the flowering stage i ended up with clawing and N toxicity more often than not. I decided to change nutrient lines and now i am using Canna coco A+B, I'm now just hitting week 2 of flower following a light feeding schedule (700ppm atm) and i'm seeing some slight clawing happening. After a closer look at the bottles i see the final ratio once a+b is mixed is 5-2-3-1. That to me is a stupid amount of nitrogen for bloom? After a bit more research nearly every coco A+B range requires the same amount of a+b throughout the whole grow. Any advice on how to bring my N down or should i just ditch coco specific nutrients and use a normal range with calmag each feeding?

 

[Old Salt]

Hey fellow growers, I was recently growing with Nutrifield full range of coco a+b, I noticed that when i increased ec in the flowering stage i ended up with clawing and N toxicity more often than not. I decided to change nutrient lines and now i am using Canna coco A+B, I'm now just hitting week 2 of flower following a light feeding schedule (700ppm atm) and i'm seeing some slight clawing happening. After a closer look at the bottles i see the final ratio once a+b is mixed is 5-2-3-1. That to me is a stupid amount of nitrogen for bloom? After a bit more research nearly every coco A+B range requires the same amount of a+b throughout the whole grow. Any advice on how to bring my N down or should i just ditch coco specific nutrients and use a normal range with calmag each feeding?

You can try reducing the component with the highest nitrogen content.

I've switched to Mega Crop. It;s much easier, and cheaper.

 

[tokeycones]

You can try reducing the component with the highest nitrogen content.

I've switched to Mega Crop. It;s much easier, and cheaper.

I thought that but all the coco a+b lines i've used/looked into stress the fact of using equal amounts of A + B, I think if i lower one i miss out on a lot of other micro nutrients that are in that bottle. Ahh nice, I''ve seen a lot of ranges that have worked well however i am in new zealand and unfortunately we don't really have access to a lot of the same nutrient lines that other countries have.

 

[gr865]

I have used this principle for the past few years.

LESS IS MORE



200 ppm of a + b for veg. is plenty.

350 ppm of a + b for flower is plenty.

CaliMagic/Canna A&B ratio
150 ppm/200 ppm = 350
100 ppm/300 ppm = 400
50 ppm/ 400 ppm= 450



Here is a chart the gives the ratios of Calcium in given ppm of A&B.
This Calcium information is purely based on a Canna schedule, using CaliMagic. Once you hit around 700 ppm, Canna base nutes, you no longer need Cal/mag additives.

This is based on slightly rough math but is very close to correct, in my experience.

A&B
3 ml/gal = .4 EC = 200 ppm with around 44 ppm of calcium
4.5 ml/gal = .6 EC = 300 ppm with around 66 ppm of calcium
6.2 ml/gal = .8 EC = 400 ppm with around 88 ppm of calcium
7.7 ml/gal = 1 EC = 500 ppm with around 112 ppm of calcium
9.2 ml/gal = 1.2 EC = 600 ppm with around 135 ppm of calcium.



I use GH Cal/Magic and I believe the recommended rate is 3.5 ml (1 tsp/5 ml)/gallon. I use Canna Coco's line of nutrients but I back off of their recommended rates, as I feel they are way high. For example, in veg I will add only 200 ppm of A&B and in flower 350 ppm. Now these rates do not give me the Cal ratio needed. You need around 150 ppm of calcium alone.....so even if when I'm at 200 ppm if I only added 100 ppm of Calimagic, only 75 is calcium so I would still be a tad short. In flower, I use RO (55 ppm of Cal/Mag), to this I add 0.75 ml Cal/Magic (68 ppm) and 0.5 grams Epsom (63 ppm) per gallon to bring my #'s to 131 ppm, below the 150 ppm needed, That's without the 55 ppm of the RO, then begin adding the base nutrients. But I have been working with this and it seems ok. I believe it has to do with the 55 ppm of Cal/Mag that is added back to my RO water.

pH of 5.8 and let it drift to 6.0 to 6.1. Drip Clean for the win, helps clean the root system of excess nutes and keeps you nozzles clean.

Hope this makes sense!

 

[tokeycones]

Makes total sense mate appreciate that input I'll definitely give it a try on a few girls next run and see if the lower ppm effects my growth speed, If not it's a no brainer! Will save me a lot of expensive nutrients also hehe. I haven't actually used any cal/mag this run and have had 0 deficiencies in either, however,
I'm using Tap water (soft 110ppm) not R/O. I usually would but the brands of calmag i have available in my country are far too high in nitrogen vs mag/cal but I've finally managed to find a store that has a good ratio bottle and coincidentally it's calimagic hehe. I'm about week 2 of bloom and i'm at 700ppm (600 - water ppm) and they seem to be borderline tolerating it with 2x watering to waste per cycle.

 

[tokeycones]

I had a nosey at a few of your journals and I think seeing how your girls do at such a low ppm reassures me that less is more. I'm going to cap at the ppm i'm at apart from a week 4-5 Pk boost but i'm going to go very light on that also.

 

[incogn1to]

Lots of good info here. I'm also using Canna A/B with RO but my cal/mag supplement is cal-mag+. I think I'm going to switch to calimagic for a little less N. I'm currently in the middle of what looks like a mag deficiency but I don't know how that'd be possible since I've been giving them 1ml/L since they were small.

 

[tokeycones]

Are you familiar with the strain/strains showing deficiency? Some strains are just Mag whores haha. I'm running 4 different strains myself not with r/o water just soft tap water. I haven't seen any signs of mag deficiency from start to week 3 bloom. No cal/mag just tap water and base nutes with rhizotonic and cannanyzm. Ph 5.8?

 

[tokeycones]

Lots of good info here. I'm also using Canna A/B with RO but my cal/mag supplement is cal-mag+. I think I'm going to switch to calimagic for a little less N. I'm currently in the middle of what looks like a mag deficiency but I don't know how that'd be possible since I've been giving them 1ml/L since they were small.

If i may, I was just having a nosey at your grow and the pics with the deficiency is early stage Copper deficiency IMO not a magnesium deficiency. It's quite a rare deficiency i've never had it myself but i've heard it can be very Common when using R/O water.

 

[incogn1to]

It's quite possible that it's a copper def as a result of using RO. Some of the other explanations don't make sense, like PH balance, as I've been very diligent on checking before I feed, and I have a good meter which I check and calibrate if needed weekly. My other plant has started showing signs of something as well, so I'm going to sit down when lights come on tonight and try to decide what to do. It can't hurt to switch to tap water. I'm on city water, roughly 140ppm and PH 7. I'm going to fill a bucket right now and let it sit for a day.

 

[tokeycones]

Yeah i'm 90% sure thats what it is. Totally agree mate. I'm on city water also and it's roughly 120ppm 6.8-7.0 PH and i've had no issues with it. i have a 10x10 tent and a 200L reservoir that i can burn through in under a week when the tents full so R/O just isn't realistic for me imo. I let it sit in my res overnight also but I have a 4 way air pump with 4 airstones cranking in there.

 

[shottafire]

Your issues are probably because of lockout. It’s fairly common in coco. First thing I would check is your runoff ph and ec.

 

[tokeycones]

Your issues are probably because of lockout. It’s fairly common in coco. First thing I would check is your runoff ph and ec.

Mine? Thanks but I'm Constantly on my checking runoff ph/ec. I think that the canna calculator I'm using just feeds a little higher than they like just as most nutrient lines do. I've lowered my ec slightly and they are perky asf and no clawing. I was trying to follow "Cultivators" How to feed coco programme but i realise he does not use A+B nutrients so he has more control over the N levels ect.

 

[incogn1to]

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread