Deficiency? Help please new grower

[Leesus]

I'm growing in peat moss/perlite. Using advanced nutrients ph perfect micro grow bloom and distilled water. I called and asked if I needed cal mag and they told me I didn't need it using distilled water and their nutrients. I'm guessing it has cal/mag in it? Anyways these spots appeared over night. I'm a first time grower so I have no idea what it is. I don't see any bugs. A gnat might have flown in but the other younger seedling doesn't have this problem. Yet anyways. I had let it get kinda dry but not bad. The normal check with the finger and still a bit moist a little deeper down so I watered. It felt light. Any help is appreciated

 

[Triggle]

Lol stop it. That thing is fine Don't use distilled water though...just use regular R.O./filtered water or buy some pH up/down and save money by using your tap water...looks like it got misted with something while the lights were on? your plant is fine. Good luck!

Trig

 

[iwltfum]

It might be the very faint signs of a calcium deficiency, despite what the company said. The first picture is what clues me in. You can that the spots have dark centers. Maybe the peat/perlite method needs extra cal/mag supplementation like coco does? It looks good otherwise though!

 

[Leesus]

PUR water filter on the tap? Is this the filtered water you mean? I was told not to use ph up or down with my AN pH perfect? Maybe it will be okay if i let it sit then just add the AN and no oh up ot down? Any advice? Add cal mag anyways?

 

[iwltfum]

I don't know that line of nutrients so I probably shouldn't offer any advice on what to do about it. I'm just say it looks a little bit like a calcium deficiency:

 

[Leesus]

I don't know that line of nutrients so I probably shouldn't offer any advice on what to do about it. I'm just say it looks a little bit like a calcium deficiency:

I agree completely! Thanks alot for this. Anything I can add while waiting on cal mag to ship? Such as Epsom salt or something? Thanks for all the help!

 

[pete2]

Thanks guys I'm new also,And just learned something that I didn't know before.Great site.Good luck

 

[OldMedUser]

Epsom salts is magnesium sulphate so it won't supply any calcium.

I've had that on plants before and I'm sure it's some type of fungus/mold infection. Maybe bacterial or viral for all I know.

Early signs of Ca deficiency are very dark leaves and really slow growth. Nothing about spotting in both my grow bibles until maybe the late stages. I used the older 3 - part AN nutes for 10 years and never used calmag and also never saw deficiencies.

I've been growing with the pH Perfect Sensi and Connoisseur for a couple of years now and loving the ease of it. Never bother checking the pH and it's been great.

I have 2 big plants in 4 gal pots with ProMix HP and when I mix up a batch of nutes for them I use a 4L milk jug and mix it double then split it and top up the jug with RO water then feed them each 4L. I accidentally added 20ml of pH Up instead of the CalMag. Both bottles are very similar and I was a wee bit medicated. lol I figured I'd be tossing that batch but I shook it up, let it sit for a half hour or so then checked it with a good 4 colour test strip. Bang on 6. I left it for a few hours then checked again and still 6 so went ahead and used it. That was a couple days ago and the girls seem just fine. About 10 days into flowering now.

There's no way that that jug should have stayed at 6 with all that pH Up. Had to be the buffering agents in the nutes as I'm sure it would have gone to 8 or more. I need to do a little experiment to see what happens when I add a proportional amount to plain RO water then see what happens when I add a bit of Sensi.

L8r

 

[Triggle]

Yeah you shouldn't need it when feeding with the AN. I mentioned the pH up/down for if you need to adjust your tap water...a filter isn't really necessary..by filtered I meant bottled water...if you don't want to use your tap water for some reason. A plant that young shouldn't be deficient in much of anything if it's been fed even once or twice. Hope you dial it in!

Trig

 

[Leesus]

Epsom salts is magnesium sulphate so it won't supply any calcium.

I've had that on plants before and I'm sure it's some type of fungus/mold infection. Maybe bacterial or viral for all I know.

Early signs of Ca deficiency are very dark leaves and really slow growth. Nothing about spotting in both my grow bibles until maybe the late stages. I used the older 3 - part AN nutes for 10 years and never used calmag and also never saw deficiencies.

I've been growing with the pH Perfect Sensi and Connoisseur for a couple of years now and loving the ease of it. Never bother checking the pH and it's been great.

I have 2 big plants in 4 gal pots with ProMix HP and when I mix up a batch of nutes for them I use a 4L milk jug and mix it double then split it and top up the jug with RO water then feed them each 4L. I accidentally added 20ml of pH Up instead of the CalMag. Both bottles are very similar and I was a wee bit medicated. lol I figured I'd be tossing that batch but I shook it up, let it sit for a half hour or so then checked it with a good 4 colour test strip. Bang on 6. I left it for a few hours then checked again and still 6 so went ahead and used it. That was a couple days ago and the girls seem just fine. About 10 days into flowering now.

There's no way that that jug should have stayed at 6 with all that pH Up. Had to be the buffering agents in the nutes as I'm sure it would have gone to 8 or more. I need to do a little experiment to see what happens when I add a proportional amount to plain RO water then see what happens when I add a bit of Sensi.

L8r

What did you do for your plants? Did you ever figure out what it was? I'm glad you posted I learned more about my nutrient line and glad I don't have to purchase cal mag. I will switch back to RO water and use tap water adjusted to 5.8 in between feedings. Correct? Also I have another related question. Feeding/water schedule. Say I feed on Monday with nutes, let dry for a day, Wednesday I need to use plain water adjusted to 5.8? Then Friday feed nutes then Sunday water so on and so forth? Thanks for the input it really helps. Learn a lot from you fellow growers couldn't do it without ya!

 

[Leesus]

Yeah you shouldn't need it when feeding with the AN. I mentioned the pH up/down for if you need to adjust your tap water...a filter isn't really necessary..by filtered I meant bottled water...if you don't want to use your tap water for some reason. A plant that young shouldn't be deficient in much of anything if it's been fed even once or twice. Hope you dial it in!

Trig

I see. I can use tap I was just trying to follow instructions and use RO water didn't think distilled was much different, thanks for clearing that up. My tap is around 300 ppm and pH is 8.5+ I will just do 5 gallons at a time and feed with RO water with nutes and no pH. I'm taking home a magnifying glass today to look for bugs. I really wish I knew what this was so I can prevent it in future grows. Will post another photo of it when lights come on this evening.

 

[Triggle]

Definitely a difference with distilled vs. RO. What's your RH in your room? You checked for mites yet? Doesnt really look like mite stipling but it's never a bad idea to check for those little bastards!!! OldMedUser has you on the right track!

 

[Leesus]

Definitely a difference with distilled vs. RO. What's your RH in your room? You checked for mites yet? Doesnt really look like mite stipling but it's never a bad idea to check for those little bastards!!! OldMedUser has you on the right track!

Rh is between 30-50. Trying to get it higher. What would I be looking for with mites? I'm taking home a magnifying glass today to check them really good I can't see anything with the naked eye though. Glad you guys corrected me on using distilled water. Thanks alot. Hope I can figure this out and become a more experienced grower from the situation. If not then I atleast learned something about the water and nutes. Happy growing!

 

[Triggle]

You're doing great so far...be patient and keep it simple. They are very resilient plants! If you're already between 30-50% RH then you're right in the sweet spot. Maybe keep towards the upper until you get good bud formation and then drop to around 35% in flower if possible. If you have good airflow and good air replacement then you can run higher RH, just watch for mildew.

Mites will start to stiple the top surface of the leaves...It's a little mark similar to the ones on your plants caused by the mites feeding on the underside of the leaf. Eventually those leaves will yellow and die if they got hit hard and if you really get infested then you will start to see webs...

Don't panic, I am sure you do not have them at this point but when troubleshooting a problem just start checking off the list.

I HIGHLY recommend that you pick up one of the CannaBibles...I use Jorge Cervantes' book, some use Ed Rosenthal's book...some use both. The best investment you will make for your grow is one of those books. Guaranteed.

Trig

 

[BuddroGreen]

I use and have taught friends with AN pH perfect GMB(grow,micro,bloom) and they use tap water, Yes you can use pH up/down with AN pH perfect nutrients. I grow in RDWC/DWC & sometimes Coco and when you start out @ 300ppm the AN pH perfect will not keep the nutrient solution @ 5.8, so you must chase the pH a little until the plants get bigger and can handle a higher EC/TDS/PPM level. When you start putting 600-800ppm or higher of base nutrients in solution, that's when AN pH perfect works better at keeping pH in check.

Almost every nutrient company puts pH buffers in their nutrients, AN just makes it seem like they are the only ones and it's some kind of new thing, when it isn't. I have used GH & Botanicare, they do the same thing as AN with the pH buffers, but you will still need to pH the nutrient solution sometimes even with those nutrient lines...don't listen to the hype, always, I mean always check your pH, don't let some sales jargon fool you. Ph & healthy roots are the key to awesome plants.

 

[OldMedUser]

What did you do for your plants? Did you ever figure out what it was? I'm glad you posted I learned more about my nutrient line and glad I don't have to purchase cal mag. I will switch back to RO water and use tap water adjusted to 5.8 in between feedings. Correct? Also I have another related question. Feeding/water schedule. Say I feed on Monday with nutes, let dry for a day, Wednesday I need to use plain water adjusted to 5.8? Then Friday feed nutes then Sunday water so on and so forth? Thanks for the input it really helps. Learn a lot from you fellow growers couldn't do it without ya!

The whole Idea of the pH Perfect line is that you don't have to worry about adjusting the pH of your water. In fact you probably won't be able to change it from whatever you get once the nutes are in the water. The pH buffers in the nutes will resist changing the pH from what they want it to be and AN has engineered it to stay at the pH that is best for pot. I'm a chemist and not exactly sure how they do it.

There is no way to tell you when to water/feed. For potted plants I water when they need it. Every 4 or 5 days is about when I need to water my big ones. I know when to water by hefting the pots. They feel very light when it's time but the plants aren't drooping yet.

Allow your plants to dry out one time enough to just begin to droop then lift the pot up and really feel the weight. Jiggle it up and down so your brain gets the feel for it. Then use something that you can keep track of how much water it takes to saturate that pot until it can't take any more water. (I measured water into a 2L pop bottle and marked every 100ml with a felt pen and did the same to a 4L milk jug but marked it every 250ml.) Then hoist that pot up and feel it's weight. Wait until that pot feels almost as light as when it dried right out but the plants are still up and happy then it's time to water again. Three days is about perfect for watering as a general rule. If you have to water every day or every 2nd day it's time to repot to something bigger. I have catch pans under my pots so when it runs out I let it sit in it for a half hour or so then suck out the excess with a turkey baster. That way I know the root ball is saturated with no dry areas. I sometimes water from the bottom by filling the pan and letting it wick up so that I can let the top 3" stay dry to help prevent gnats. Always seems to be a few buzzing around.

If you know how much water it takes to soak the plant then you can mix up your nutes more accurately or if in a hurry just dump 80% of that amount in and head out the door knowing they have adequate water.

Measure your nutes etc accurately as well. I have a bunch of different sized syringes from 1cc up to 60cc to draw up nutes from the jugs and then squirt them into the tub or watering can. The local farm supply has a big assortment and also had clear plastic tubing so you can fit some onto the end of the syringe and more easily get the nutes out. Keep a glass of plain water to suck up a little bit twice between different bottles of nutes and rinse the tube and syringe so you don't cross contaminate the concentrated products.

I only ever use RO or distilled water for my plants in pots or DWC. My distiller died about a year ago so it's been RO ever since. Either is better than using tap water. Most tap water is pretty hard and causes salts buildup in the soil that interferes with everything. Get a water quality report from your supplier. Usually a phone call to your city/town can get you an email of their latest test results or it might be on their website. If they ask why you want this info ask them why they need to know that. Or tell them you want to get into brewing your own beer or start raising salt water tropicals or grow rare orchids. None of their damn beeswax. As a consumer you have the right to that info so screw 'em with a big stick. Best to be polite until you have that info tho.

When I had those spots like you have I just left it. It never spread badly but all the leaves had them. Yields were fine and the plant grew as good as any other. I'm not sure what it was. If yours start to get bigger and take over the leaves then you need to find out what is going on. Is there anything going on under the leaves like fuzzy patches or bugs?

L8r

 

[OldMedUser]

Definitely a difference with distilled vs. RO. What's your RH in your room? You checked for mites yet? Doesnt really look like mite stipling but it's never a bad idea to check for those little bastards!!! OldMedUser has you on the right track!

There's really not a lot of difference between RO and distilled water as far as water quality goes Triggle. Both are devoid of any minerals and things like chlorine tho distilled can contain some things like organic compounds that boil over with the steam depending on the quality of the feed water. Distilled water is also devoid of oxygen so it's a good idea to use a small air pump and stone to aerate the water for a while before using it. I just take a 5 gal jug down to the grow room and drop a stone in and leave it running, That way the water is as full of O₂ as it can be when I use it.

Mites are the worst for sure. Lost everything to them once.

L8r

 

[Triggle]

Quality, no. Product, yes. Simply trying to advise a new grower about the easier way to do things. Distilled is so depleted that you almost have to "build" your water when doing water only feedings..i.e.- oxygenating etc. And as you pointed out, if the ingoing water is dirty, you stand the risk of volatile compunds with BP's of 100C or less. I would definitely say that RO is better at removing Chloro-based compounds but one could argue that. It's not a huge deal and distilled is definitely fine to use I just think it's not the best, it can get expensive to buy and the process to make distilled water requires massive amounts of energy so I look at DW companies the way I look at coal plants haha. I do chemistry research at the University where I live, looking at local fungi (free radical scavenging and chemical characterization), and we run all of our wet tests with RO and again using distilled. For no true reason really but we just like to swim in data.

I like using tap water simply because I can filter it right out of the faucet, adjust temperature to exactly what I want and, when filling jugs, I can oxygenate it by using the spray nozzle.

$30 pH tester, $20 pH up/down, $10 reference solution= problems solved, no matter what your preference.

Love this community and all of the insight, thanks OMU!

And Leesus...8.5 out of your tap!?!? goodness.

Trig

There's really not a lot of difference between RO and distilled water as far as water quality goes Triggle. Both are devoid of any minerals and things like chlorine tho distilled can contain some things like organic compounds that boil over with the steam depending on the quality of the feed water. Distilled water is also devoid of oxygen so it's a good idea to use a small air pump and stone to aerate the water for a while before using it. I just take a 5 gal jug down to the grow room and drop a stone in and leave it running, That way the water is as full of O₂ as it can be when I use it.

Mites are the worst for sure. Lost everything to them once.

L8r

 

[OldMedUser]

Gotcha on the water Triggle. I got my chem diploma in 3 years doing enviro chem back in the late 80s when I was in my early 30s. Forgot most of it now in my early 60s. Stroke didn't help. lol

Filtering tap water might remove chlorine and some heavy metals but unless you are using something like a Zero Water 5 - stage water filter system all the carbonates etc are still in it and that's the kind of salts that build up in the root ball and throw off all the chemistry happening in there that makes the plant grow.

Most tap water has lots of calcium and magnesium in it so that's why it's a good idea to use calmag with RO or distilled as they have nothing.

If a guy is going to use tap water then a water report is essential to at least know what is actually in the water and the report is free and not hard to get. Every time you water with tap water your plant will use some of the minerals that are in it but very little so the bulk of them stay in the root ball. After a few waterings it builds up. Just like the crusty crap that plugs up your coffee maker or kettle. I only use RO water in my BUNN coffee maker too so it won't get buggered up. Don't want to be replacing a $150 coffee maker every year. The town water here is about 350ppm and heavily chlorinated with chlorine. Many towns use chloramine to keep their water safe and that doesn't evaporate off like chlorine does. If your tap water has chloramine in it you need a special filter to get rid of it. Same with fluoride. Even RO doesn't take fluoride out of the water and it's toxic to all life tho pot plants don't live long enough to get cancer from it.

We don't have town water here and get all our house water from a big dugout on my property. We buy RO water for drinking and get jugs of town water free from a friend for boiling spuds and such. The dugout is 80 x 50 meters and 4 meters deep so no shortages here, That's 16,000 cubic meters or approx 4 million USG for 3 people, one dog, 3 cats and 30 chickens. lol

I make my own colloidal silver and buy 4L jugs of distilled water from the drug store just for that. At $2.99 a jug that's not bad and I have about 7L of CS at hand.

L8r

 

[Leesus]

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