Help: Plant been sick for over a month

[parrajara]

just be super careful what inputs you add like Mr sauga has stated , it becomes a big overwhelming mess then your completely on the ropes
Potassium deficiency can be caused by soil pH, extreme liming or calcium rich areas of fields, lack of soil oxygen or true soil deficiency.
Next can be (p) excess it can cause a zinc, iron then mag def
if you use a ph down to ph your water , with your soil amendments, and with the (p) boosts the plant it will take up the ph down also (phosphoric acid) depending on how much it takes to get in range it can cause problems in excess ,they take up more cal than (P) so never over do it

the best thing to do is water to 20 percent run off at a ph o 6.4 let dry out almost completely and water again
, what is your tap water sitting at , and is it hard or soft water ?.
get some seaweed extract and look up foliar feeding leaves , it will put the nutes straight into the leaves and your roots can have plain water for a while to see if they perk back up, and the leaves colour up again ,
if the plant still looks hungry after a few watering's then hit it with a good base water soluble nutrients
Any ways that's my little part done

had the other message in drafts and after I posted it, I read this.
Thank you for insightful response Nutty.

The last 2 waterings have been 6.5 and 6.4 pH, and I have let the soil get dry every time. My tap water is soft I think (17ppm). I really don't want to spend any more money, I am already 3x over my budget with this grow... so I can go ahead and do the foliar feeding - is it a big deal if I skip the seaweed extract?

Great close up shot too @NuttyProfessor . I'd have to agree that it looks more like K def now. Hopefully @parrajara sees your posts and makes adjustments for that. No harm in the extra calmag, but if it's a lockout then it won't help.

Hmm... I actually haven't watered her like I said. I decided to wait a little longer and let that soil get dryer. I do sense it's a lockout of some sort, but can't figure out what caused it.

 

[parrajara]

this is what she looks like beside the other plants . Not sure this will help

 

[NuttyProfessor]

i think it should balance out , give them a week to see, those centre new leaves look like tip burn coming through also so water will be your best friend this time around
i have soft water too so more sodium and sodium doesn't help the uptake of (k) either but its not always a big problem but can happen, these hidden snags are what catch you out
i catch rain water now too for soil and use tap for coco , the rain is better for organic too as your not killing the microbes
the second plant looks like its going the same way so keep a close eye its slight but there
,

 

[parrajara]

i think it should balance out , give them a week to see, those centre new leaves look like tip burn coming through also so water will be your best friend this time around
i have soft water too so more sodium and sodium doesn't help the uptake of (k) either but its not always a big problem but can happen, these hidden snags are what catch you out
i catch rain water now too for soil and use tap for coco , the rain is better for organic too as your not killing the microbes
the second plant looks like its going the same way so keep a close eye its slight but there
,

Wish I knew this before! Would've been no problem here in Raincouver haha. Ive been getting the tap water 24 hrs before watering to get rid of the chlorine too.

Good eye, the second plant started getting some yellow leaves at the bottom and some deficiencies showing. Just gave her a top feeding yesterday, so hoping this will take care of it. Its been just over a month since transplant, so it makes sense that the FFOF is out of nutrients.

So the plan is to water my sick plant with 6.4 pH, nothing else added for now? Skip the epsom and foliar feeding?

 

[Pat Puffer]

Setting out the water only works if your municipal water is treated with chlorine. Most places are switching to chloramines, as they do not disperse as easily and keep our water safer for us.

I double checked and saw that as of 3 yrs ago, your water was chlorinated. I would try and get more up to date info to ensure that is still a fact.

 

[parrajara]

Setting out the water only works if your municipal water is treated with chlorine. Most places are switching to chloramines, as they do not disperse as easily and keep our water safer for us.

I double checked and saw that as of 3 yrs ago, your water was chlorinated. I would try and get more up to date info to ensure that is still a fact.

Thank you, I will. That would be nice to be able to get water without having to preplan.

 

[Pat Puffer]

I ran my 2020 outdoor on chloramine water. It won't stop plants from growing. It just impedes biological activity in the soil. If the junk/amendments were already broken down, its good (super soil).

 

[NuttyProfessor]

With dry amendments water deep get a good 15%20 % run off OUT THE BOTTOM the first couple of times or everything sits like a pot of stew cooking then there's excess , The excess this will lock out other nutrients then you see hunger symptoms but plenty off nutrients in the medium ,
so dont add more dry for a while as it takes time to work and break down,
,
treat like salt you can add but you cant take away

 

[NuttyProfessor]

The Dangers of Chlorine we both seen this my self and @Patient Puffer​

Chlorine deserves some praise for its disease prevention, but that’s about where its benefits end. Pathogens are cleared from your water, but there could be nasty repercussions for other areas of your health. Here are a few horrible side effects worth considering:

• It may cause cancer: Though they need further investigation, some studies show that chlorine by products promote cancer development . Chlorinated water is suggested to be a catalyst for rectal and bladder cancer in particular
• Your gut will suffer: Bacteria is no match for chlorine, and that’s the problem — chlorine can destroy the good bacteria in your intestines. This further proves chlorine’s carcinogenic effect, as one study concluded that it increases the risk of colonic tumor growth
• Birth defects are possible: A Taiwanese investigation links chlorinated water to the rise of birth defects. The study notes that, if ingested during pregnancy, it could cause cleft palates, as well as both heart and brain dysfunction in the fetus .
• Food allergies: A study published in the Annals of Allergy, Asthma and Immunology found that chlorine byproducts may be the reason we can’t handle our food. More research is necessary, but the conclusion is that chlorine is likely responsible for the increased incidence of food allergies .
• It’s a toxin: Chlorine is so toxic, it’s been used in war. It was weaponized in World War One, the Iraq War, and even today in Syria . When inhaled, chlorine becomes deadly hydrochloric acid.

scary stuff
Plant and pest problem solver

 

[NuttyProfessor]

How i like to water to run off when working in soil and amendments

• Sep 29, 2020

 

[parrajara]

With dry amendments water deep get a good 15%20 % run off OUT THE BOTTOM the first couple of times or everything sits like a pot of stew cooking then there's excess , The excess this will lock out other nutrients then you see hunger symptoms but plenty off nutrients in the medium ,
so dont add more dry for a while as it takes time to work and break down,
,
treat like salt you can add but you cant take away

THANK YOU Professor! I really think this is my problem right now. My healthier plant did not perk up after feeding it a couple of days ago, and the green is getting lime-ier. All my top growth is looking off color. I am confident it's the thick layer of fertilizer and dolomite lime causing this.... So if I didn't do it the first couple waterings, can i just do it on the next waterings? Or how can I go about fixing this?

I really need to take care of it.. the plant is looking very ill

 

[NuttyProfessor]

you can remove if its possible some of the stuff your talking about , try get if off before it breaks down and cause more problems ,
i use compost on top with blended manure and a little dry amendments , home made cheap and cheerful lol
compost and well broke down blended on top does a pretty good job , hard to over do it also and more natural way of feeding that little thing hanging is live predators for spider mites

 

[parrajara]

you can remove if its possible some of the stuff your talking about , try get if off before it breaks down and cause more problems ,
i use compost on top with blended manure and a little dry amendments , home made cheap and cheerful lol
compost and well broke down blended on top does a pretty good job , hard to over do it also and more natural way of feeding that little thing hanging is live predators for spider mites

It's under the soil, so I would have to dig the top inch of soil to do so. I also find that there are small roots up in the top inch of soil, not sure if this is normal.

I don't really have access to manure or compost, and I already have all my fertilizers which other people use succesfully. So I guess I just need to learn how to apply them. I watered my sick plant today (even a day later than I said just to let it really get dry). I let off a significant amount of run off... Hopefully this helps, because I don't think she will survive much longer in the condition she is in.

 

[parrajara]

I went to home depot to get compost and their selection was lackluster. The person also suggested against it because I'm growing in a small condo and the smell + fumes released from the compost would've been an issue.

He suggested to use this instead. Break down the top layer of soil gently with a fork or something, and than put this potting mix and water. Would you say this will help more or less like compost?

Also going to buy some aloe vera juice as Emilya recommended, its been hard to find it at a reasonable price.

 

[parrajara]

Edit: Post duplicated and I can't delete this...

So ill use this post to take a picture of the plant today. It looks so miserable, I feel like it can't recover lol

 

[NuttyProfessor]

wow , they do look sad, can you take a pic of the new growth on top , ,i would try a good few handfuls on top and water it well in slowly ,
ph water to 6.2 because of the lime ,

 

[NuttyProfessor]

I will also cal on others as i have a weekend of a lot happening , my niece passed away almost two weeks ago in england and she flies home to ireland today , then we have wakes and funeral, and to be honest i wont be in any state to try and help any one as this will be the first see a baby that's passed away , 6 months old . cant think right for you
Calling @Emilya @Patient Puffer @VetSmoke85 @Mr. Sauga

 

[Emilya Green]

Hi everyone... Condolences to you Nutty... nothing is sadder than a child passing away, and the best I can offer you is my prayer for peace and healing for the you and the family.

This grow is in trouble I am afraid. It does look like huge lockouts are happening here, and I think it is just nutrient overload. I am curious to see what the others called in to help think, but after pondering this for a few days, I have a theory:

Dry amendments work fairly well outdoors in the soil, because it is not a closed container. Microbes are plentiful and excesses drain away, but even in an outdoor garden bed with poor drainage, a large amount of water oftentimes will create a soupy sludge of amendments which overloads the region and causes lockouts until the water drains away.

In a closed container it is so much easier to create an overload by using dry fertilizer in too large of an amount. Fertilizer needs to be applied slowly, so as to not overload the capture ability of the soil, or lockouts can easily happen. If it was that easy to simply add the needed nutrients to the soil in this form that could last through the entire grow, there would be no need to "cook" a supersoil ... just throw the nutrients in there and go, no problem. Sadly, it doesn't work that way and we have to slowly cook that soil for months to get those nutrients embedded into that soil so as to not immediately overload the plant with everything all at once.

This is what has happened here... all the nutrients, in a readily available form have been added to the soil. Every time you water, a soupy mix of overload occurs. A few nutrients get through, and in the early stages when N was the prominent need, the plants thrived, since it was abundantly available in the soup. As soon as the plants needs widened however, going into bloom, things immediately got complicated. All that N that before was so helpful, is now getting in the way, and locking out other vital elements. They are in the mix... but the plant can't see them. You have just learned that it is not as easy as simply adding the nutrients to the soil and watering...

 

[parrajara]

I will also cal on others as i have a weekend of a lot happening , my niece passed away almost two weeks ago in england and she flies home to ireland today , then we have wakes and funeral, and to be honest i wont be in any state to try and help any one as this will be the first see a baby that's passed away , 6 months old . cant think right for you
Calling @Emilya @Patient Puffer @VetSmoke85 @Mr. Sauga

Oh no, that is terrible Professor. I am so sorry to hear this. I wouldn't expect or want any help from you right now, it's best you take your time and heal. My thoughts are with you, and your family

 

[parrajara]

Hi everyone... Condolences to you Nutty... nothing is sadder than a child passing away, and the best I can offer you is my prayer for peace and healing for the you and the family.

This grow is in trouble I am afraid. It does look like huge lockouts are happening here, and I think it is just nutrient overload. I am curious to see what the others called in to help think, but after pondering this for a few days, I have a theory:

Dry amendments work fairly well outdoors in the soil, because it is not a closed container. Microbes are plentiful and excesses drain away, but even in an outdoor garden bed with poor drainage, a large amount of water oftentimes will create a soupy sludge of amendments which overloads the region and causes lockouts until the water drains away.

In a closed container it is so much easier to create an overload by using dry fertilizer in too large of an amount. Fertilizer needs to be applied slowly, so as to not overload the capture ability of the soil, or lockouts can easily happen. If it was that easy to simply add the needed nutrients to the soil in this form that could last through the entire grow, there would be no need to "cook" a supersoil ... just throw the nutrients in there and go, no problem. Sadly, it doesn't work that way and we have to slowly cook that soil for months to get those nutrients embedded into that soil so as to not immediately overload the plant with everything all at once.

This is what has happened here... all the nutrients, in a readily available form have been added to the soil. Every time you water, a soupy mix of overload occurs. A few nutrients get through, and in the early stages when N was the prominent need, the plants thrived, since it was abundantly available in the soup. As soon as the plants needs widened however, going into bloom, things immediately got complicated. All that N that before was so helpful, is now getting in the way, and locking out other vital elements. They are in the mix... but the plant can't see them. You have just learned that it is not as easy as simply adding the nutrients to the soil and watering.

Hey Emilya, so happy you stopped by. I do believe it was a lockout, but I don't think it was because of an abundant of fertilizer being applied at once. I hardly applied any fertilizer to my unhealthy plant, it was less than 1/3rd the recommended dose. I do feel like what caused it was the hardening of the dolomite lime on the surface of the soil. I've gone ahead and put some of the peat based potting mix that was handed to me by the person at home depot. They suggested against compost because of the smell and fumes. I also purchased the aloe vera juice that you recommended. It took a lot of effort to find this juice, finally found it in a pharmacy.

How would I go about applying the aloe vera juice? I read online that 1/4 cup per gallon of water is the ideal measurement. Should I mix it with the water? should I pH it?

Thank you in advance!