How do I save these plants?

[DarionOzb]

Hey guys, hope I can get some help with this.

About 2 weeks ago i started noticing some slow growth on these ladies after a very healthy and rapid 4 months of veg. This is my first time vegging past the 8/10 week mark, and I was trying to grow them out as long as I could.

The slow growth has made me want to send them into flower before I lose them completely though.

Im think its a pH problem with the soil because I ran out of liquid pH tester for my water so ive been eyeballing. I know , i know, first red flag. But im using the same water ive been using for about a year now and the amount of pH Down I need to add is always relatively the same (ill have pH tester on July 9th). I also think its an overwattering problem, cause I suck at watering I rly do. Im just not good at measuring how much my plants want. And also maybe a Nitrogen deficiency or the opposite of tht, nitrogen burn?...
Im leaning towards the opposite of deficiency because, get ready for the second red flag, i didnt cut back on my Big Bloom nutes. *_* i know i know..please dont rip my head off...but my plants seemed to be okay with the amount till about a week or 2 ago.

Ive posted some pictures. Hopefully they help with the diagnosis.

Any help, info, and tips on how to dave dying plants, and also keep them alive longer is greatly appreciated!!
Thanks!!

-D

 

[DarionOzb]

More pics

 

[Elvin]

Unless your water is so wildly bad that it necessitates additions to correct pH prior to addition of ferts (extremely unlikely and you should fix the water not buffer with chemicals) I would not bother with testing strips; Soil buffers pH naturally; there is no need to adjust the pH of your fertilizer solution and testing runoff is pointless to do with soil. For some reason, people believe soil behaves just like coco and you need to adjust ph; you don't. Soil buffers the pH of fert solutions unlike coco.
All I see are a few dead leaves that I have no idea of where on the plant they came from and a few yellow leaves of minimal concern also a chemical burn from splatter (I guess) but no dying plants. Weak looking plants, because that room is not sunny enough, is really all I see other than an obvious fert problem that very likely is a result of not following the printed instructions, and instead you have been listening (and following) weed forum instructions. Those will almost always get you in trouble or just waste money with pH test strips when growing in soil.
Be more careful with watering when you have ferts in it (don't splash and if you do spray it off with clean water)
Best I can suggest is dump a bunch of clean water on them in case you have not been watering to overflow to flush out any possible accumulated salts then follow your fert instructions; do not do that silly 1/4 strength nonsense that some recommend. Certainly do not let them sit in a dish of runoff like a houseplant so it will suck the runoff back up. The idea is to push all the nutes you can in them (per manufacturer's instructions) while making sure there is plenty of runoff to prevent salt accumulation.
And get a light on them or get them outside in the full sun. Light is what you need the most. They really remind me of plants you see in the wild growing in the shade of other bigger plants/trees/bushes which leads me to conclude you need light.
Plus a good complete line of nutes applied per manufacture instructions, not weed forum instructions. The last thing you need is to modify your fertilizer's instruction because someone you do not know, says they know better than the people who make and sell the line of ferts.

 

[VanIslandConnoisseur]

water to run off when the plant has used 3/4 ,of the water in the medium.

You know it has used this amount of water when the pot/plant weight is super light, but the plant isnt quite wilting. hope this helps buddy

looks over watered and calcium deficiency is those rust spots, ph prob outta wack

interveinal chlorosis on some of those leaves, meaning veins stay green tissue fades to yellow, this is magnesium deficiency, the one photo you can see the veins are yellow but tissue still a bit green, that to me is nitrogen deficient, it would just all be yellow in no time if problem persisted

 

[DarionOzb]

Unless your water is so wildly bad that it necessitates additions to correct pH prior to addition of ferts (extremely unlikely and you should fix the water not buffer with chemicals) I would not bother with testing strips; Soil buffers pH naturally; there is no need to adjust the pH of your fertilizer solution and testing runoff is pointless to do with soil. For some reason, people believe soil behaves just like coco and you need to adjust ph; you don't. Soil buffers the pH of fert solutions unlike coco.
All I see are a few dead leaves that I have no idea of where on the plant they came from and a few yellow leaves of minimal concern also a chemical burn from splatter (I guess) but no dying plants. Weak looking plants, because that room is not sunny enough, is really all I see other than an obvious fert problem that very likely is a result of not following the printed instructions, and instead you have been listening (and following) weed forum instructions. Those will almost always get you in trouble or just waste money with pH test strips when growing in soil.
Be more careful with watering when you have ferts in it (don't splash and if you do spray it off with clean water)
Best I can suggest is dump a bunch of clean water on them in case you have not been watering to overflow to flush out any possible accumulated salts then follow your fert instructions; do not do that silly 1/4 strength nonsense that some recommend. Certainly do not let them sit in a dish of runoff like a houseplant so it will suck the runoff back up. The idea is to push all the nutes you can in them (per manufacturer's instructions) while making sure there is plenty of runoff to prevent salt accumulation.
And get a light on them or get them outside in the full sun. Light is what you need the most. They really remind me of plants you see in the wild growing in the shade of other bigger plants/trees/bushes which leads me to conclude you need light.
Plus a good complete line of nutes applied per manufacture instructions, not weed forum instructions. The last thing you need is to modify your fertilizer's instruction because someone you do not know, says they know better than the people who make and sell the line of ferts.

Thanks for that man! Sorry for the confusion, i was actually in the middle of transplanting them into 7gal pots. I was just in my living room. The lights in using are 600w LEDs , the same one from my previous Posts on this forum. Same tent too. I feel like im not getting true 600w though, and idk how to find out how much true watts i am getting.

Ill do a good flush with some store bought purified water here in a couple days just to get a fresh start.

Glad to know they dont look like they are dying though! gives me hope!

 

[Elvin]

Thanks for that man! Sorry for the confusion, i was actually in the middle of transplanting them into 7gal pots. I was just in my living room. The lights in using are 600w LEDs , the same one from my previous Posts on this forum. Same tent too. I feel like im not getting true 600w though, and idk how to find out how much true watts i am getting.

Ill do a good flush with some store bought purified water here in a couple days just to get a fresh start.

Glad to know they dont look like they are dying though! gives me hope!

The easiest way to find the true watts is to look up the light on Amazon. A Viparspectra 600 watt pulls 260 from the wall and that includes the cooling fans so maybe 240? of actual light. Also realize that Blurples do not use Samsung top bins so the light is not as efficient like QB's are. I have over 450 true watts in three Viparspectra Blurples and they do not grow as good of weed as my 240 watts of QB's.
If you water to a good runoff you should not need to flush (I never flush) but if you don't water to runoff flush those babies; also be sure to be also using a full fertilizer line per the line's instructions (no 1/4 nutes or 1/2 nutes like some advise; that is just silly to do) unless the line says to pH don't bother; soil buffers on its own and use cal mag if you don't have hard water (that's your calcium) with a little magnesium naturally occurring as my well water has.
They are green and do not look like that genetic freak I threw out today so they'll likely look a lot better once you flipped to flower and they've had a couple of weeks of 12/12.

 

[DakiniKush]

Unless your water is so wildly bad that it necessitates additions to correct pH prior to addition of ferts (extremely unlikely and you should fix the water not buffer with chemicals) I would not bother with testing strips; Soil buffers pH naturally; there is no need to adjust the pH of your fertilizer solution and testing runoff is pointless to do with soil. For some reason, people believe soil behaves just like coco and you need to adjust ph; you don't. Soil buffers the pH of fert solutions unlike coco.
All I see are a few dead leaves that I have no idea of where on the plant they came from and a few yellow leaves of minimal concern also a chemical burn from splatter (I guess) but no dying plants. Weak looking plants, because that room is not sunny enough, is really all I see other than an obvious fert problem that very likely is a result of not following the printed instructions, and instead you have been listening (and following) weed forum instructions. Those will almost always get you in trouble or just waste money with pH test strips when growing in soil.
Be more careful with watering when you have ferts in it (don't splash and if you do spray it off with clean water)
Best I can suggest is dump a bunch of clean water on them in case you have not been watering to overflow to flush out any possible accumulated salts then follow your fert instructions; do not do that silly 1/4 strength nonsense that some recommend. Certainly do not let them sit in a dish of runoff like a houseplant so it will suck the runoff back up. The idea is to push all the nutes you can in them (per manufacturer's instructions) while making sure there is plenty of runoff to prevent salt accumulation.
And get a light on them or get them outside in the full sun. Light is what you need the most. They really remind me of plants you see in the wild growing in the shade of other bigger plants/trees/bushes which leads me to conclude you need light.
Plus a good complete line of nutes applied per manufacture instructions, not weed forum instructions. The last thing you need is to modify your fertilizer's instruction because someone you do not know, says they know better than the people who make and sell the line of ferts.

You're so right. People check PH in soil! Crazy

 

[013]

The watering is a huge problem, I’m going to gamble that you are watering too frequently. Instead of you guesstimating when or measuring how much water your plant wants, why not let the plant tell you? So on Monday if you pour 1 cup or 5 cups it doesn’t matter because the water runs right thru the plant. But if you water on Monday you should wait until Thursday or Friday to see if she is ready for another drink. Don’t just pour more water on, it’s not helping. At four months of age the plant should be taller than you.

Fill same size container with dry soil, use lift the pot method, compare your plants weight to same size container of dry soil. Empty pot of soil is light as a feather, this is where good watering tech begins. You want your plants container to dry out. Also look for the plant leaves to wilt, to droop downward and look sad. This is the plant saying - yo, I’m thirsty.

In the veg cycle soil grown plants do not need frequent watering, in fact they will grow more quickly by stretching the wet / dry cycle. When the container dries out our plants build fine root hairs to search for water, this is good!! Watch the leaves on the plant, look for them to wilt slightly then water to run off. In veg mode stretch the wet dry cycle but in flower mode keep the soil moist.

Read this tutorial on How to Water a Potted Plant Emilya How to water potted plant

 

[Bush Doctor 77]

What is the make up of what you call soil? It looks more like a peat/perlite hydroponic media than soil. Most peat/coco/perlite medias are buffered with dolomite and/or gypsum, and need no adjustment of pH.

 

[Elvin]

The watering is a huge problem, I’m going to gamble that you are watering too frequently. Instead of you guesstimating when or measuring how much water your plant wants, why not let the plant tell you? So on Monday if you pour 1 cup or 5 cups it doesn’t matter because the water runs right thru the plant. But if you water on Monday you should wait until Thursday or Friday to see if she is ready for another drink. Don’t just pour more water on, it’s not helping. At four months of age the plant should be taller than you.

Fill same size container with dry soil, use lift the pot method, compare your plants weight to same size container of dry soil. Empty pot of soil is light as a feather, this is where good watering tech begins. You want your plants container to dry out. Also look for the plant leaves to wilt, to droop downward and look sad. This is the plant saying - yo, I’m thirsty.

In the veg cycle soil grown plants do not need frequent watering, in fact they will grow more quickly by stretching the wet / dry cycle. When the container dries out our plants build fine root hairs to search for water, this is good!! Watch the leaves on the plant, look for them to wilt slightly then water to run off. In veg mode stretch the wet dry cycle but in flower mode keep the soil moist.

Read this tutorial on How to Water a Potted Plant Emilya How to water potted plant

Watering "too much" can only result if the soil does not drain and I'll be blunt; plants in the wild do not get trinkles of water that takes forever to get the things watered.
There is nothing wrong with watering them just like a houseplant or a plant outside in a downpour. It does not harm them outside getting water that quick, why would it hurt them inside?
If they are in 7 gallon pots with good drainage I'd get a gallon watering can, mix the nutes in it and just dump the thing on the plant like it's in a rainstorm and get it done with. 1 gallon per plant should get you runoff and won't take forever as if you were just using tiny bits at a time. I have 9 plants and am cloning a few more. If I watered drops at a time instead of like I just shared I'd spend half my day watering.
But to each their own; water slowly, water quickly; it works either way.

 

[Elvin]

What is the make up of what you call soil? It looks more like a peat/perlite hydroponic media than soil. Most peat/coco/perlite medias are buffered with dolomite and/or gypsum, and need no adjustment of pH.

Either it's coco or soil but unless it's coco without limestone it is pointless to pH. Most coco peat mixtures like Promix have been prebuffered with limestone so they do not need pH'd.
Soil, if it's that, absolutely does not need to be pH'd.

 

[DarionOzb]

You're so right. People check PH in soil! Crazy

Weird. In my previous grow ppl got mad at me for not pHing ny soil after i pHed my water..and also do i have to check my waters pH again after adding nutes? Im so confused about tht part *

The watering is a huge problem, I’m going to gamble that you are watering too frequently. Instead of you guesstimating when or measuring how much water your plant wants, why not let the plant tell you? So on Monday if you pour 1 cup or 5 cups it doesn’t matter because the water runs right thru the plant. But if you water on Monday you should wait until Thursday or Friday to see if she is ready for another drink. Don’t just pour more water on, it’s not helping. At four months of age the plant should be taller than you.

Fill same size container with dry soil, use lift the pot method, compare your plants weight to same size container of dry soil. Empty pot of soil is light as a feather, this is where good watering tech begins. You want your plants container to dry out. Also look for the plant leaves to wilt, to droop downward and look sad. This is the plant saying - yo, I’m thirsty.

In the veg cycle soil grown plants do not need frequent watering, in fact they will grow more quickly by stretching the wet / dry cycle. When the container dries out our plants build fine root hairs to search for water, this is good!! Watch the leaves on the plant, look for them to wilt slightly then water to run off. In veg mode stretch the wet dry cycle but in flower mode keep the soil moist.

Read this tutorial on How to Water a Potted Plant Emilya How to water potted plant

Thanks for all of those helpful tips man! Thats info i didnt know! I appreciate it.

As for the four month thing, thats give or take, it might be 3. I kinda lost track. But i think the reaso they are so short is because i mainlined them. I let the plant get pretty tall before i cut about 3/4's if not more off. Then i Lst'd. I dont want too tall of plants tbh. Im growing personally, so dont need much. But my last grow only made an ounce, so i know i need more than that. Hoping these two plants turn out to be ladies and i get at least 2 oz.

 

[DarionOzb]

What is the make up of what you call soil? It looks more like a peat/perlite hydroponic media than soil. Most peat/coco/perlite medias are buffered with dolomite and/or gypsum, and need no adjustment of pH.

I put about 70% happy frog, 20% perlite, 10% hydrotons.

Just transplanted into 7 gal pots.
70% ocean forest, 20% perlite, 10% hydrotons.

Fox Farm lineup Nutes. BB, TB, and GB.

 

[Bush Doctor 77]

I put about 70% happy frog, 20% perlite, 10% hydrotons.

Just transplanted into 7 gal pots.
70% ocean forest, 20% perlite, 10% hydrotons.

Fox Farm lineup Nutes. BB, TB, and GB.

I assume "by volume". That's a good commercial soil, and it and those nutes should be well buffered. pH control should not be a major concern unless your water is very alkali or acid. Normal tap water, or even Ca/Mg hard well water should work without adjustment. I am in peat/perlite which is well buffered. My well water is about 400 ppm TDS from mostly Ca/Mg carbonates. I use about 20% RO sometimes with well water. I'm using Mega Crop, and don't even test for pH. My hard well water makes a great Ca/Mg doner.

 

[DarionOzb]

I assume "by volume". That's a good commercial soil, and it and those nutes should be well buffered. pH control should not be a major concern unless your water is very alkali or acid. Normal tap water, or even Ca/Mg hard well water should work without adjustment. I am in peat/perlite which is well buffered. My well water is about 400 ppm TDS from mostly Ca/Mg carbonates. I use about 20% RO sometimes with well water. I'm using Mega Crop, and don't even test for pH. My hard well water makes a great Ca/Mg doner.

Im using water from my sink which is high in alkaline. I usually lower my pH my water to 6.3-6.5 but without my tester, i had to guess. Thursday can not come soon enough i tell u wht xD but as for my ppm i dont have a meter for tht either. I heard soil will have high ppm anyways but as long as i flush a couple times throughout the cycle itd be okay?

 

[Bush Doctor 77]

Im using water from my sink which is high in alkaline. I usually lower my pH my water to 6.3-6.5 but without my tester, i had to guess. Thursday can not come soon enough i tell u wht xD but as for my ppm i dont have a meter for tht either. I heard soil will have high ppm anyways but as long as i flush a couple times throughout the cycle itd be okay?

Get some narrow range pH strips(5-8 pH) if you want to test. You should be good with following the manufacturer's directions. If you're growing under LEDs, the hard water should be good as you need more Ca/Mg.

 

[Elvin]

Weird. In my previous grow ppl got mad at me for not pHing ny soil after i pHed my water..and also do i have to check my waters pH again after adding nutes? Im so confused about tht part *



Thanks for all of those helpful tips man! Thats info i didnt know! I appreciate it.

As for the four month thing, thats give or take, it might be 3. I kinda lost track. But i think the reaso they are so short is because i mainlined them. I let the plant get pretty tall before i cut about 3/4's if not more off. Then i Lst'd. I dont want too tall of plants tbh. Im growing personally, so dont need much. But my last grow only made an ounce, so i know i need more than that. Hoping these two plants turn out to be ladies and i get at least 2 oz.

People that believe you need to pH everything are wrong with the type of growing you are doing. You have soil or Promix right? That is not straight coco correct? If I've guessed correctly about your growing medium, then absolutely you do not need to pH unless . . . .

#1) the nute manufacturer says to; if they do not tell you to do it then you don't bother unless for #2:
You have really crappy water should not be using but it is all you have and you have to correct some wild numbers. Tap water is not that kind of water BTW unless you live in a really sketchy area like Flint Michigan with its lethal tap water.
You definitely do not pH runoff; those you suggest that in a soil grow are just repeating weed forum nonsense.

I truly believe that a few weeks into the flip they'll look fine with growing flowers

 

[DarionOzb]

Get some narrow range pH strips(5-8 pH) if you want to test. You should be good with following the manufacturer's directions. If you're growing under LEDs, the hard water should be good as you need more Ca/Mg.

Awesome thanks! Also i just read the labels on these fox farm nutes, none of them have calcium in them?? Im a lil confused about tht...so i guess imma just buy so Cal/mag this weekend and just go easy with it cuz ive never used before and i dont wanna burn them.

 

[DarionOzb]

People that believe you need to pH everything are wrong with the type of growing you are doing. You have soil or Promix right? That is not straight coco correct? If I've guessed correctly about your growing medium, then absolutely you do not need to pH unless . . . .

#1) the nute manufacturer says to; if they do not tell you to do it then you don't bother unless for #2:
You have really crappy water should not be using but it is all you have and you have to correct some wild numbers. Tap water is not that kind of water BTW unless you live in a really sketchy area like Flint Michigan with its lethal tap water.
You definitely do not pH runoff; those you suggest that in a soil grow are just repeating weed forum nonsense.

I truly believe that a few weeks into the flip they'll look fine with growing flowers

Yes you are right, it is mostly ocean forest soil. But Oof. Im not too sure if the product necessarily needs me to pH before feeding...i posted some pics of what im using. Maybe that'll help?

 

[Elvin]

Yes you are right, it is mostly ocean forest soil. But Oof. Im not too sure if the product necessarily needs me to pH before feeding...i posted some pics of what im using. Maybe that'll help?

Ocean Forest? Do not pH! FF does not recommend to pH the nute water so there really is no need to test pH unless your water is crap.
I used to use that (I use Iowa soil; a heck of a lot cheaper and I usually need to dig a hole to empty my burn barrel anyway) and with perlite to help it drain.
You absolutely do not need to pH it. It self-buffers fertilizer just like soil does in your garden.
Throw away your strips. Definitely do not waste money on Fox Farm's flushes. If you water to a nice runoff there is no need to flush. If you don't water to runoff, then you do (and get the "Bounceback" or whatever it is called to help recovery from the flush) and then you need to start watering to runoff so you do not need to do it again.
I used to use FF's Rasta's line with FFOF and it grew very nice weed BTW. Now it's Iowa soil and Kelp4Less's line with some added Triacontanol (Humbolt County's Snow Storm's active ingredient) and Chitosan Oligosaccharide (Bud factor X's active ingredient) as root drenches (you can spray it on but I don't spray stuff on what I smoke despite everyone's reassurances it won't be there at harvest). I discovered Kelp4Less when I started buying their versions of some of FF's stuff to save money and liked the equal result at a much lower cost.