How's my Autoflower looking to you? Day 79 - Gorilla Cookies

[Fietchen]

I was mainly wondering in relation to the surface area.. 320w for 80x80cm is also kinda overkill.
You do not have to run that anywhere near full power for autos.

Hmm yeah if she's moldy you kinda have to start cutting as that's not going to get better.. that's going to go South fast.
And then you need to do a good clean of the tent.

Hmm is she shitty? well if she smelled and tasted alright but yeah if she can't finish it will be pretty shitty as it's all thin foxtails, if those would get ready and have some resin well then yes you'd still have something.

But if she started moulding, they are right, axe it.. and start over.. In four weeks you could have autos that start to flower again. Instead of waiting on this monster.

Moldy are only after cutting the stuff underneath there are to much growth and buds touching each other... Too much PK you think Is a problem here? Shit then I buy this big PK 5l Bottle what a shit i throw it away ore maybe use so much less then the container hold love long only using what canna recommended only 1 week of there grow cycle maybe week ore so i put maybe to much in the Tank but i don't think too much PK is the Main problem here too much Light maybe but last Grow was good also a Big Plant but also the Lights i using but wait it was a Photo.

I Dimm the Lights a bit but guys the Fastbuds support say under 12h with much light is less a problem then under 18h the DLI here is good. I also check DLI at the beginning but she grow so tall i moved her out and remove the table for my drain too wiast set up but she Strech to day 60-70 ore litte longer that's what's Fuckt up!

What you think she will End do you recommend to harvest her? I don't think this is a good decision she has to finish hopefully and maybe with 40% mold the rest Buds will enough to the next harvest but know there is shitty fluffy white hair buds

 

[Delps8]

I was mainly wondering in relation to the surface area.. 320w for 80x80cm is also kinda overkill.
You do not have to run that anywhere near full power for autos.

It depends on what kind of outcome you want.

Cannabis will grow in light levels higher than 64µmols and will max out at 800-1000µmols (non-CO2 enhanced). Research demonstrates that crop quality and yield increase in an almost linear manner.

As I've mentioned before in this thread, check out some of my grow journals. One crop from my 2' x 4' tent was over 900gm/meter squared and one reason I got those results was that, for much of the grow, I had three lights that were using over 500 watts.

Hmm yeah if she's moldy you kinda have to start cutting as that's not going to get better.. that's going to go South fast.
And then you need to do a good clean of the tent.

Hmm is she shitty? well if she smelled and tasted alright but yeah if she can't finish it will be pretty shitty as it's all thin foxtails, if those would get ready and have some resin well then yes you'd still have something.

But if she started moulding, they are right, axe it.. and start over.. In four weeks you could have autos that start to flower again. Instead of waiting on this monster.

Yup. That's the "the oh no second" - when the cola feels soft so you crack it open and the interior is light brown/tan.

 

[Fietchen]

It depends on what kind of outcome you want.

Cannabis will grow in light levels higher than 64µmols and will max out at 800-1000µmols (non-CO2 enhanced). Research demonstrates that crop quality and yield increase in an almost linear manner.

As I've mentioned before in this thread, check out some of my grow journals. One crop from my 2' x 4' tent was over 900gm/meter squared and one reason I got those results was that, for much of the grow, I had three lights that were using over 500 watts.


Yup. That's the "the oh no second" - when the cola feels soft so you crack it open and the interior is light brown/tan.

You see mold on the sugar leafs they fall down then you know the Bud is there infected but the top of my buds looking not Moldy only some spots down the plant

 

[Fenderbender]

It depends on what kind of outcome you want.

Cannabis will grow in light levels higher than 64µmols and will max out at 800-1000µmols (non-CO2 enhanced). Research demonstrates that crop quality and yield increase in an almost linear manner.

As I've mentioned before in this thread, check out some of my grow journals. One crop from my 2' x 4' tent was over 900gm/meter squared and one reason I got those results was that, for much of the grow, I had three lights that were using over 500 watts.


Yup. That's the "the oh no second" - when the cola feels soft so you crack it open and the interior is light brown/tan.

Sure but I would not recommend it with autos, you see what you get.. You also thought light stress is a possible factor in what went on here.
I'm in week 4 now and my autos started to complain when I tried to push over 40DLI.
Maybe middle to late flowering you push some more light at it.. but they don't need much to do well.

 

[Fietchen]

Sure but I would not recommend it with autos, you see what you get.. You also thought light stress is a possible factor in what went on here.
I'm in week 4 now and my autos started to complain when I tried to push over 40DLI.
Maybe middle to late flowering you push some more light at it.. but they don't need much to do well.

My DLI was good all the time then she Strech to day 60-70 and the plant reached problem level at this time she become 18h so enough lights but she Strech to High then i have no inter choice to reducing lights per hour because of the to much light.

 

[Delps8]

Sure but I would not recommend it with autos, you see what you get.. You also thought light stress is a possible factor in what went on here.

You might not recommend what, giving autos 900± µmols of light? You're in good company. growlightmeter.com (the folks who sell Photone) don't recommend a DLI of > 45 mols. When I asked their programmer, Dominik, why they recommended that DLI, he replied that that's what photos get when they're in flower so that's what recommend.

I laughed when I read that.

Yes, I do see what's happened and I believe that this grow has been exposed to too much light. I've presented my data and my conclusion.

I don't see a lot of mystery as to why this happened. Check the light levels for my grows and you'll see that the plant that fox tailed was getting > 1200 µmols, well over the 800-1000µmols that represent the light saturation point for cannabis in a non-CO2 enhanced environment. Cause and effect.

I'm in week 4 now and my autos started to complain when I tried to push over 40DLI.

I've seen that happen, to a grower on this forum, in fact. Cannabis will thrive in 800-1000µmols in a non-CO2 enhanced environment. There's no arguing this.

The fact that your plants are having problems at a DLI of 40 means that your grow cannot support a DLI of > 40. It's not a question of what how an auto flower plant reacts to DLI > 40, the issue is why is your grow not supporting a DLI of > 40 (if you care to find out, of course).

I feel fortunate that I snagged this graphic from a Bugbee video:

I used that as a guide to set up my grow. Wind is qualitative* but the others are quantitative, meaning that we have research that tells us the values that represent optimal conditions.

If I couldn't get more than 40mols on my plants, auto or photoperiod, I'd work through those categories to determine what was wrong with my grow. Again, your grow might start to crap out at ≈ DLI 40 but that's not a function of auto flower cannabis.

In the case of the grower whose grow started to suffer at 600µmols, it was a soil grow and the grower had allowed the soil at the bottom of his grow bags to dry out. That made the soil hydrophilic (?) (couldn't absorb water). I'm not a soil grower so I'm not sure if that's the right term.

Maybe middle to late flowering you push some more light at it.. but they don't need much to do well.

"more light" "much" are squishy, qualitative words that don't have a meaning, they have many meanings and that will make it harder to communicate.

The light saturation point ("LSP") of cannabis is 800-1000µmols, the light compensation point is 64µmols. Those light levels will support cannabis. Research shows that crop quality and yield increases as light levels increase and, per Bugbee, when in a CO2 enhanced environment, he has never found a maximum PPFD value for cannabis. IIRC, they stopped at 2000µmols.

That's what the research tells us.

Can you get a good crop at, say, 600µmols - absolutely!

Check out the grow journals here or on any other cannabis forum and you'll find a lot of grows at that light level. And I know that because many plants exhibit symptoms of plants that have been grown in a lighting environment that's well below the LSP. The grower is happy but yield and quality suffer because their plants aren't getting enough food. "leaving money on the table" is the apt description.

Back to your grow - if your grow can't handle > 40 DLI, there's a reason. It could be the seed(s) or clone(s), sure, or it could be one or more of the other parts of the grow environment but it's not that it's an auto.


*Now that I think about it, I did see a value for wind a couple of years ago but decided that "lots" would be sufficient. Yeh, one of those squishy, qualitative words that I rail against… And, as it turns out, "lots" ≈ "enough" which is why I lost my Spring grow to bud rot.

 

[Fietchen]

You might not recommend what, giving autos 900± µmols of light? You're in good company. growlightmeter.com (the folks who sell Photone) don't recommend a DLI of > 45 mols. When I asked their programmer, Dominik, why they recommended that DLI, he replied that that's what photos get when they're in flower so that's what recommend.

I laughed when I read that.

Yes, I do see what's happened and I believe that this grow has been exposed to too much light. I've presented my data and my conclusion.

I don't see a lot of mystery as to why this happened. Check the light levels for my grows and you'll see that the plant that fox tailed was getting > 1200 µmols, well over the 800-1000µmols that represent the light saturation point for cannabis in a non-CO2 enhanced environment. Cause and effect.


I've seen that happen, to a grower on this forum, in fact. Cannabis will thrive in 800-1000µmols in a non-CO2 enhanced environment. There's no arguing this.

The fact that your plants are having problems at a DLI of 40 means that your grow cannot support a DLI of > 40. It's not a question of what how an auto flower plant reacts to DLI > 40, the issue is why is your grow not supporting a DLI of > 40 (if you care to find out, of course).

I feel fortunate that I snagged this graphic from a Bugbee video:

I used that as a guide to set up my grow. Wind is qualitative but the others are quantitative, meaning that we have research that tells us the values that represent optimal conditions.

If I couldn't get more than 40mols on my plants, auto or photoperiod, I'd work through those categories to determine what was wrong with my grow. Again, your grow might start to crap out at ≈ DLI 40 but that's not a function of auto flower cannabis.

In the case of the grower whose grow started to suffer at 600µmols, it was a soil grow and the grower had allowed the soil at the bottom of his grow bags to dry out. That made the soil hydrophilic (?) (couldn't absorb water). I'm not a soil grower so I'm not sure if that's the right term.


"more light" "much" are squishy, qualitative words that don't have a meaning, they have many meanings and that will make it harder to communicate.

The light saturation point ("LSP") of cannabis is 800-1000µmols, the light compensation point is 64µmols. Those light levels will support cannabis. Research shows that crop quality and yield increases as light levels increase and, per Bugbee, when in a CO2 enhanced environment, he has never found a maximum PPFD value for cannabis. IIRC, they stopped at 2000µmols.

That's what the research tells us.

Can you get a good crop at, say, 600µmols - absolutely! Check out the grow journals here or on any other cannabis forum and you'll find a lot of grows at that light level. And I know that because many plants exhibit symptoms of plants that have been grown in a lighting environment that's well below the LSP. The grower is happy but yield and quality suffer because their plants aren't getting enough food. "leaving money on the table" is the apt description.

Back to your grow - if your grow can't handle > 40 DLI, there's a reason. It could be the seed(s) or clone(s), sure, or it could be one or more of the other parts of the grow environment but it's not that an auto or a photo can't handle it.

What i can do now? You think she will not finish? I reduce the Lights from the Samsung Panel but the cob leds i can't dimm!

Guy's this is terrible what you would do cut her? I don't this is a good think because maybe she will Finish the top of the Buds?

 

[Delps8]

You see mold on the sugar leafs they fall down then you know the Bud is there infected but the top of my buds looking not Moldy only some spots down the plant

I hope you can save at least some of the crop.

 

[Delps8]

What i can do now? You think she will not finish? I reduce the Lights from the Samsung Panel but the cob leds i can't dimm!Guy's this is terrible what you would do cut her? I don't this is a good think because maybe she will Finish the top of the Buds?

My experience along with the information that I received at the time is that the trichomes will not mature. I do not know if that's correct but I know that I got to a point where I couldn't see any change so I harvested the grow.

Per my multiple postings - I went through the same issue a few grows ago, though I haven't looked at it in many months, I suspect that the grow journal at this link has a fair amount of discussion of the issue. I hope you find something helpful.

 

[Fenderbender]

@Delps8 ah, yeah no okay I get what you're saying, but then it's basically in relation to the medium & root size etc.... as indeed I would imagine if you feed your plant lots of light it makes it very active, but soil maybe can't keep up with that activity versus lets say a DWC grow. Although I have no problem feeding a fully established photo at the 900-1000 level in soil if the pot is fully colonised. And that's also at 12hours.. so maybe it's rather heat stress at 18hrs?
But these autos are just starting week 4 and I don't think the roots will colonise the pot fully at all, it's a SIP so some in the soil and the rest down at the reservoir. So I guess it peters out at 600 at the moment.

From the nine cardinal parameters root zone temperature and co2 are a total mystery.. the rest is "plenty"

 

[Fenderbender]

Yeah you're going to have to be very careful Fietchen as mould can go quickly it works invisible until you can see it and then it's too late.
Also Delps seem to suggest that the plant won't really mature so is there a point really, in those few weeks you could be well on your way to new buds instead of battling a mouldy monster.

 

[Fietchen]

I hope you can save at least some of the crop.

Safe from mold ore what?

 

[Fietchen]

Yeah you're going to have to be very careful Fietchen as mould can go quickly it works invisible until you can see it and then it's too late.
Also Delps seem to suggest that the plant won't really mature so is there a point really, in those few weeks you could be well on your way to new buds instead of battling a mouldy monster.

You mean with new buds a new grow to start? The Top Buds i can not see mold only some popcorn in the lower part but maybe possible lot more somewhere but i am happy if i can harvest the top buds but they have to finish you guys think she will be fine and finish in 3-4 weeks?

 

[Delps8]

@Delps8 ah, yeah no okay I get what you're saying, but then it's basically in relation to the medium & root size etc.... as indeed I would imagine if you feed your plant lots of light it makes it very active, but soil maybe can't keep up with that activity versus lets say a DWC grow. Although I have no problem feeding a fully established photo at the 900-1000 level in soil if the pot is fully colonised. And that's also at 12hours.. so maybe it's rather heat stress at 18hrs?

"colonized" = organic soil?

At the conceptual level, I don't think a plant can easily "outgrow" the nutes in a grow pot because we can add nutes. OTOH, I know zero about OLS so I'm all ears (as Ross Perot would say).

The issue with this grow - looks like too much light but I didn't (re)read the thread to pick up the heat issue.

But these autos are just starting week 4 and I don't think the roots will colonise the pot fully at all, it's a SIP so some in the soil and the rest down at the reservoir. So I guess it peters out at 600 at the moment.

My observations have been that plants in hydro grow quicker than in soil but a straight soil grow and handle "lotsa light".
Regardless of what your grow should be doing, the reality is 600µmols is that max. OK, I can't put heavy light on them but can I put 600µmols on them for longer, right?
Cannabis can be lighted 24/7 but I've used, generally speaking, either an 18 hour or 20 hour photoperiod (again, check my grow journals). 18 hours at 600µmols is a DLI of 39 and 20 hours is 43. That's 10%± so that could get you a decent bump in yield.

From the nine cardinal parameters root zone temperature and co2 are a total mystery..

Root zone temp is because Bugbee grows only in hydro. And his group runs CO2 at 1200ppm.

the rest is "plenty"

Agreed.

Losing my Spring grow was 100% on me. We have had mild weather here in SoCal for the past couple of years but this spring was mild and wet. I grew a beaut of a photo - she was 3' across, almost 3' front to back, and about 30" tall and a huge amount of inflorescence. I had three fans in the tent but that wasn't enough. I should have defoliated with that in mind. I didn't and I ended up with nada. :-(



Heh, I found the data on light vs yield and quality. The slope data is from the paper and I've put it in a handy dandy format:

Pretty crazy - 600µmols to 900 = 27.8% increase.

 

[Delps8]

Safe from mold ore what?

Yup, mold.

 

[Fenderbender]

You mean with new buds a new grow to start? The Top Buds i can not see mold only some popcorn in the lower part but maybe possible lot more somewhere but i am happy if i can harvest the top buds but they have to finish you guys think she will be fine and finish in 3-4 weeks?

Honestly don't know man.. Delps doesn't think she will mature?
Or what am I reading?
And to me those buds don't look like 4 weeks away from finishing..
So yeah.. add the onset of mould. It's not looking good.
Grow the new beans, put these through some bubble bags?

@Delps8 no not organic "colonised" as in how much of the medium is filled with roots from the cannabis.. although there were mushrooms growing in the pots so there was something else in there.. I'm looking into organic grow with myco though.

I've grown in dwc as well and well yeah if you got a huge root system you can throw a lot at the plant is I think what the rule is.. As then she's able to cope with high intensity situations.
Up until added CO2 is required.

 

[Delps8]

Honestly don't know man.. Delps doesn't think she will mature?
Or what am I reading?
And to me those buds don't look like 4 weeks away from finishing..
So yeah.. add the onset of mould. It's not looking good.
Grow the new beans, put these through some bubble bags?

@Delps8 no not organic "colonised" as in how much of the medium is filled with roots from the cannabis.. although there were mushrooms growing in the pots so there was something else in there.. I'm looking into organic grow with myco though.

I've grown in dwc as well and well yeah if you got a huge root system you can throw a lot at the plant is I think what the rule is.. As then she's able to cope with high intensity situations.
Up until added CO2 is required.

Good roots!

Got it on "colonized" - thank you for the clarification.

Re. CO2 - I'd like to try that but I don't have a sealed room so I'm not sure there is a way to do it. I'm open to suggestions if you have experience with that - CO2 in a small tent that's not in a sealed environment.

 

[Fietchen]

Honestly don't know man.. Delps doesn't think she will mature?
Or what am I reading?
And to me those buds don't look like 4 weeks away from finishing..
So yeah.. add the onset of mould. It's not looking good.
Grow the new beans, put these through some bubble bags?

@Delps8 no not organic "colonised" as in how much of the medium is filled with roots from the cannabis.. although there were mushrooms growing in the pots so there was something else in there.. I'm looking into organic grow with myco though.

I've grown in dwc as well and well yeah if you got a huge root system you can throw a lot at the plant is I think what the rule is.. As then she's able to cope with high intensity situations.
Up until added CO2 is required.

You think she won't finish ore what??? I don't think mold will be a big problem when i clean the bottom to middle of the plant for better airflow... The Top Buds don't look that Bad i add Bamboo sticks for supporting the Bigger Budd the Buds fall down some of them so i support them for also better light coverage and airflow.

I can't use all the Buds for Bubble Bags are you serious i need 100l bags and 100l ice lol not positive but some of the Buds i will make Bubble. I have a another Tent 60x60x160cm I can put it with a tube tother but I need a light for the new beans i can buy a cheap Chinese led light justzfor 3 weeks then i send it back to Amazon it's just a emergency move from me lol then i have 4 photo seed topp it after 3 weeks and make a good Bush in that area then transplant them in the Big tent i hope the Big Plant is ready in 30 Day's lol maybe she will never finish lol

 

[Fenderbender]

Ah he said the trichomes will not mature.. but foxtail bud should still plump up to somewhat body just a tall and slender one.
So you could try, remove all the bad, all the bad or dying leaves get air and space in there and keep her going for a bit more and see what happens but if a lot of mould patches return there's not much you can do.

Well I would think bubble or sift would be the best to get anything useful off it as if you cut now or soon I mean if that dries it shrivels to nothing the way it's now.

Ah good plan! get some photos going

 

[Fietchen]

Day 111

I have a sick discussion some of the growers from a different forum say she is overfeeding and too much ok and lockout but i don't think this is the main problem maybe the main problem is the Genetics this time because she grows so big forever that was on day 40-50 day's the lights DLI was perfekt but she grow bigger and bigger and bigger so that's a shit fucking auto! But the quality looks good the smell is very good but the Buds are weak some of them the main stem is not woody realy more soft