I can't diagnose issue

[XiwsX561]

So I'm typically a dwc hydro guy, fairly new to coco. Very 1st time in soil. So I have a couple girls that I can't diagnose. I don't believe it to be a deficiency or tocicity issue I really think they are just over due for their trans plant. Which I will be doing tonight to all girls in soil. A it's time and B going on a short trip. ADVISE PLEASE I LEAVE IN 12 HOURS.

They are in fox farm ocean forest and I believe they have used up all nute plus need to be trans planted.

 

[XiwsX561]

Other then color vpd (temp and humidity) are on point standing just like she should be

 

[XiwsX561]

I am a hydro grower from day 1 dwc just recently switched to coco. But now have perpetual grow so keeping stock girls in soil for slower growth and less maintenance. I believe it's just time for transplant which I will be doing here in next few mins because I am leaving for 2 days plane leaves in just 14 hours. Don't want to lose genetics. @Emilya would be my go to for soil. But has been mia. I don't know any soil growers so I'm asking for help. Dwc or coco I gotcha soil I have no clue but what to ph and how to water. Oh I know someone @Backlipslide Can you plz diagnose. I believe it's just time for transplant standing fine color is off doesn't look like deficiency or toxicity.

 

[XiwsX561]

@Grand Daddy Black

 

[XiwsX561]

I have 2 others that are just heavier feeders then the rest 2 gg#4 nitrogen deficient. In fox farm ocean forest, and they're at that time where they start needing food or up potted. Just been getting phd water maybe some super thrive or flora plus or brix(molasses) or one of the microbe life supplements no food yet or like grow/veg formulas true NPK just supplements and ill alternate 1 day this next time needing water switch. FFOF I know js pretty loaded

 

[Emilya Green]

I am a hydro grower from day 1 dwc just recently switched to coco. But now have perpetual grow so keeping stock girls in soil for slower growth and less maintenance. I believe it's just time for transplant which I will be doing here in next few mins because I am leaving for 2 days plane leaves in just 14 hours. Don't want to lose genetics. @Emilya would be my go to for soil. But has been mia. I don't know any soil growers so I'm asking for help. Dwc or coco I gotcha soil I have no clue but what to ph and how to water. Oh I know someone @Backlipslide Can you plz diagnose. I believe it's just time for transplant standing fine color is off doesn't look like deficiency or toxicity.

Sorry if it seemed I was MIA, but I am not... I just can't keep up on each and every thread that I happen to touch. If you need me or want to ask me a question, you can always call me in like you did on this message, and I usually come running.

You didn't say how long you will be gone, but it might be a good idea to transplant to a larger pot before you go... just depends.

PH in soil is very much misunderstood. Soil is set at the factory to a base pH... this means the pH the soil will revert to when it is dry. You should never attempt to adjust the pH of the soil... it will be set to 6.8 or so for a very good reason. This is so that when you water, and the soil is wet due to your nutrient solution, you can set the pH of that wet column of saturated soil to the low end of the pH range, or at 6.3 pH. This is the proper pH for every fluid that hits your soil, whether it be plain water or water with nutes mixed in. 6.3... every time. Pay no attention to runoff pH... it is meaningless in soil. 6.3 pH, every time, without fail. Then magic happens. The buffers in the soil start to work on that 6.3 pH column of saturated soil and it starts to drift upward in pH. Also, as the plant starts to use water, the soil begins to dry out from top to bottom, and when it dries, that region of the soil reverts back to the base pH of the soil, at the high end of the pH range.

Essentially, there is no magic pH number... it is actually a range that you should be shooting for, the more of it the better. If you water at 6.5 pH, the column of water will drift up to 6.8, the base pH, and you will miss the bits of the range between 6.3 to 6.5. If you come in at 6.3, you work through the entire range, picking up each nutrient as it become the most mobile.

As far as transplanting goes, it is all based on water usage. If the plant in a particular container can drain all the water in 3 days, you have a 3 day buffer. If the plant has managed to grow its roots so thickly that it can drain the container in 1 day, you have lost your buffer and are now a slave to your plant, having to water every day like a hydro person. It is time to uppot at that point to get your buffer back. It is all about the roots and water usage. A plant not able to drain its container in 24-36 hours is not ready to be moved into an even larger container... unless of course, you are getting ready to take a trip and are needing a bit more of a buffer. All rules can be broken when there are sufficient reasons for doing so.

 

[XiwsX561]

Yes I ph 6.3 like u told me before. I most likely did lose the buffer on this girl faster growing then other genetics but also pot size probably should have been transplanted few days ago. Now the gg#4 is just heavy feeder ate up all nitrogen in fox farm ill only be gone from tomorrow return Tuesday. I don't grow soil just starting my perpetual and keeping moms or soon to be moms in soil so i know as far as soil and them and water my trip no big deal coco it's 1 watering I'll miss even tho sounds like 2 timed plane right but they are week 2 veg 3gal fabric they will be fine even tho roots exploded out sides alrdy. I have trolmaster now. I'll dim lamps perhaps even go 16 hrs light raise humidity and water right before flight. It's mom I'm worried about I went and picked up 10 bags ffof on sale 8 bucks! I read ur paper on proper water I believe she's just past up potting day and lost buffer. Because doesn't look like any toxicity or deficiency I've ever seen and u see she's still standing beautifully.

 

[XiwsX561]

I am in process of transplanting all moms now before I leave

 

[Emilya Green]

as far as the damage to your leaves, it does look like a deficiency. It looks just like a calcium and potassium deficiency, but overall it looks like a plant should look when it has not been getting proper nutrition. You let it go in this soil too long without nutes and you have admitted so... but still you seem confused as to why your plant looks like this. Please check the Fox Farm feeding chart for clues as to what might be happening here... and please note that they never say to let plants go in their soil for 4 or 5 weeks until the soil runs out of available nutes... they instead recommend feeding all along. If you had been doing as they recommend, instead of the internet gurus who claim you should not feed full strength or even at all in FFOF, your plants would not look like this today. There is no mystery here... simply gather up all of the clues in front of you... hungry plants... no food given... and it should point you to the same conclusion.

 

[XiwsX561]

Yes @Emilya I've been told 4-6 weeks I believe your are right. Not the normal calcium deficiency used with hydro or coco slow on set with soil. Lol look she ate all the soil not root bound. I kind of cheated? These are hydro pots and I put a bit of hydroton on bottom for extra drainage. But they look good still fuzzy. Bottoms of course air pruned. I would have never gotten roots like this or even made to week 4 without ur paper thanks.

 

[XiwsX561]

@Emilya Now on the other hand I could tell the gg#4 was nitrogen deficient or getting the the lime green. Both 5 inch pots but this was I guess u call it a hard plastic nursery. Just shows how different genos feed. I've seen people cut the roots but they will be stunted not sure what's best route but I've always just lightly loosed a few of the ends and that was it.

 

[Emilya Green]

cutting the roots is a common thing.. my father grows that way, but I tend to do it like you do, trying not to stress the roots. It comes down to a matter of style, I think. Your roots look great, but I believe it is due to proper watering and the well designed containers, not the hydroton balls at the bottom. Placing rocks or other stuff in the bottom, contrary to popular belief, does NOT help drainage. Soil drains just fine on its own and doesn't need help. All the debris in the bottom does is keep it constantly wet in that layer because of capillary action between the stones and the sides and bottom of the container. Since it never dries out down there and never gets oxygen, bad microbes grow down there, giving you a much higher chance of developing root rot. As some have been discussing lately, the debris in the bottom of the container also "perches" the water table up higher in the container, reducing the amount of active soil as well as room for the lower tap and feed root system.

 

[Seniorweeder]

Sorry if it seemed I was MIA, but I am not... I just can't keep up on each and every thread that I happen to touch. If you need me or want to ask me a question, you can always call me in like you did on this message, and I usually come running.

You didn't say how long you will be gone, but it might be a good idea to transplant to a larger pot before you go... just depends.

PH in soil is very much misunderstood. Soil is set at the factory to a base pH... this means the pH the soil will revert to when it is dry. You should never attempt to adjust the pH of the soil... it will be set to 6.8 or so for a very good reason. This is so that when you water, and the soil is wet due to your nutrient solution, you can set the pH of that wet column of saturated soil to the low end of the pH range, or at 6.3 pH. This is the proper pH for every fluid that hits your soil, whether it be plain water or water with nutes mixed in. 6.3... every time. Pay no attention to runoff pH... it is meaningless in soil. 6.3 pH, every time, without fail. Then magic happens. The buffers in the soil start to work on that 6.3 pH column of saturated soil and it starts to drift upward in pH. Also, as the plant starts to use water, the soil begins to dry out from top to bottom, and when it dries, that region of the soil reverts back to the base pH of the soil, at the high end of the pH range.

Essentially, there is no magic pH number... it is actually a range that you should be shooting for, the more of it the better. If you water at 6.5 pH, the column of water will drift up to 6.8, the base pH, and you will miss the bits of the range between 6.3 to 6.5. If you come in at 6.3, you work through the entire range, picking up each nutrient as it become the most mobile.

As far as transplanting goes, it is all based on water usage. If the plant in a particular container can drain all the water in 3 days, you have a 3 day buffer. If the plant has managed to grow its roots so thickly that it can drain the container in 1 day, you have lost your buffer and are now a slave to your plant, having to water every day like a hydro person. It is time to uppot at that point to get your buffer back. It is all about the roots and water usage. A plant not able to drain its container in 24-36 hours is not ready to be moved into an even larger container... unless of course, you are getting ready to take a trip and are needing a bit more of a buffer. All rules can be broken when there are sufficient reasons for doing so.

Hello "Emilya", This is good stuff,as always I really enjoy your input , very helpful and informative for this ole man. Thanks a ton and for when U came to my rescue a while back! U rock!

 

[XiwsX561]

Hey well u know what hydroton was good for. It did airprune so when you went to transplant I removed every single ball ane then I had every single root tip was ready in the 3 days I was gone just about 150 ml water during transplant and the moisture from a fresh bag those plants doubled in size.

 

[XiwsX561]

I'm day as old as u see those clones that's how many days I've been in soil. Not yet good enough to determine where my water level was during each transplant. But I may have let go passed thr 3 day buffer. But again they just got placed into 3gal fabric. But I could see different shade in a certain level looked as if I had top dressed a long time ago or I dunno a microbial level that seemed would be right around hlf down below the top soilmaybe 1/4 thick some bigger then others some also more noticeable then others I'm not sure if it's anything at all but yes they were in need of transplant and now a little feeding

 

[XiwsX561]

Are you still using just the 2 part from geoflora? Here are the local stores they have 2-3 different soils. One out of Maine with a l lobster compost in case it needs a boost in the end and another called the great lakes or made in Detroit. Both claim to have enough nutrients from start to finish. Like 30 bucks per bag. Have u ever tried anything of such? I mean maybe if you flipped as soon as plant matured maybe get thru 4 week we 4 week flower but has to need more.

 

[Backlipslide]

Hey my apologies X!! Been away from the mag as of recently.. been super busy with work, home life, and trying to get my taxes taken care of... it seems Em has got you handled!!
again my apologies man!!

 

[Emilya Green]

Are you still using just the 2 part from geoflora? Here are the local stores they have 2-3 different soils. One out of Maine with a l lobster compost in case it needs a boost in the end and another called the great lakes or made in Detroit. Both claim to have enough nutrients from start to finish. Like 30 bucks per bag. Have u ever tried anything of such? I mean maybe if you flipped as soon as plant matured maybe get thru 4 week we 4 week flower but has to need more.

You are describing a supersoil, and yes, they can easily have enough in them to last through an entire grow... the trick is to keep the soil alive during the grow process and able to supply those nutrients to the plants. To do that you have to use clean water or add microbes along the way, and you have to be very careful about additional inputs of readily available nutes ... you don't want to interrupt the organic feeding cycle.

Yes I only use the geoflora with great results for the last several grows with just a mediocre soil to hold the plants up with. On the upcoming GSC grow, I plan on pulling out all the stops by using a supersoil in my bottom third, complete with layering and spiking of additional raw nutrients. There is a method to this madness though, and I will be following the good advice given by The Rev in his book about True Living Organics as I build my containers.

 

[XiwsX561]

Are you goin to use blue mats?

 

[Emilya Green]

Are you goin to use blue mats?

Not sure that it is going to be available at my "local" shop... so I will get the best I can find. I did look at the blue mat water only soil online and it looks like great stuff. I would not have any hesitation in using that.