Light burn, Cal def? Both? Need experienced insight

[Cwmoore577]

Hey guys/gals,
I have a Zkittlez auto from seedsman. It’s in 2 gal smart pot with Royal Gold tupur mix which is a coco medium. Tent is always 70-75°F and 45-55% RH.
Right now it’s in week 12 total and about 4 weeks from first seeing it start to flower.

I currently water 2-3 times daily with General Organics BioThrive Bloom (2-4-4) at 8ml/gal and Calmag (2-0-0) at 7ml/gal. I use reverse osmosis water. It’s always ph’d to 5.8-6.0, most of the time right at 5.9. EC levels averaging 1.0 and around 700ppm.

For most of the veg period I had it under a cheap blurple full spec LED with 102w output. Right before flowering I added a SunSystem HPS 150 which did add some heat into the tent.
I do have an exhaust fan/carbon filter set up as well as a fan in there.

I know that some of it is for sure light/heat damage. I’ve lifted the lights as far as the tent allows as well as tied branches down as much as possible without snapping them.
I also had some calcium issues with it.
Just wondering if anyone could tell me if it looks more like a calcium deficiency progressing or more the light/heat. I’d imagine some of both? Not worried about it much just would like to know if I should try to tie down more or up calmag supplement.

Thanks for your time and any insight/advice!

Here are some photos:

 

[Hydroholic]

Looks like a calcium deficiency. Make sure your PH is indeed correct and your pen is calibrated. I am 5.8 in hydro.

 

[MrSauga]

That medium is nice stuff but I've seen others encounter the same issue. This is from their website:

As a coco fiber based soilless medium, it requires high levels of calcium and magnesium to unlock its true potential.
Tupur can be watered up to 1-6 times a day.

So, depending on what the manufacturer says with the calmag I would probably increase the dose. It's interesting though with the way you are feeding them right now your NPK ratio is around a 11 where you normally would like to see a higher K number. A common ratio, or one that works well from start to finish, is 23. Also make sure she's getting enough water, which I'm assuming you are based on your OP. I could be wrong since I don't use those nutes but the PPM numbers seem low too.

 

[Cwmoore577]

Looks like a calcium deficiency. Make sure your PH is indeed correct and your pen is calibrated. I am 5.8 in hydro.

Yea I calibrate it about once a month. It’s a pretty high end meter as well.

That medium is nice stuff but I've seen others encounter the same issue. This is from their website:

As a coco fiber based soilless medium, it requires high levels of calcium and magnesium to unlock its true potential.
Tupur can be watered up to 1-6 times a day.

So, depending on what the manufacturer says with the calmag I would probably increase the dose. It's interesting though with the way you are feeding them right now your NPK ratio is around a 11 where you normally would like to see a higher K number. A common ratio, or one that works well from start to finish, is 23. Also make sure she's getting enough water, which I'm assuming you are based on your OP. I could be wrong since I don't use those nutes but the PPM numbers seem low too.

I have been thinking that lately too. I was considering switching to the General Hydroponics FloraSeries but didn’t know if it would be harmful at all to switch mid flower.
I usually give around 3/4 gal in the morning, then 1/2 gal mid day and another 1/2 gal at night. What ppm range do you think I should aim for?

 

[Hydroholic]

Yea I calibrate it about once a month. It’s a pretty high end meter as well.

I have been thinking that lately too. I was considering switching to the General Hydroponics FloraSeries but didn’t know if it would be harmful at all to switch mid flower.
I usually give around 3/4 gal in the morning, then 1/2 gal mid day and another 1/2 gal at night. What ppm range do you think I should aim for?

Early flower I’m 750-950
Late flower 1000-1600
How the plant responds is key. Your plant is wanting more. I would bump up 100ppm from where you are at. I’m also with Sauga in 11 is not ideal in flower or veg for that matter. Nitrogen can come down in flower but not away.5-3-4 in Veg 2-7-8 in early flower or 0-13-14 in last week or so. These are the numbers I use in DWC. I say quit buying bottle Nutes and come over to the Mega Crop side.

 

[MrSauga]

I have been thinking that lately too. I was considering switching to the General Hydroponics FloraSeries but didn’t know if it would be harmful at all to switch mid flower.
I usually give around 3/4 gal in the morning, then 1/2 gal mid day and another 1/2 gal at night. What ppm range do you think I should aim for?

If you have used those nutes(FloraSeries) before and are comfortable using them then there is no harm in changing. If it would be your first time using that line then I would advise against it. I always suggest to stick with what you know half way or better through a grow. Start a new grow with the new line. For now I would look at something that will give you a higher P and K to get you through flower to harvest.

The PPM numbers Hydro kindly enough posted, so you're not that far off but at the low end. I don't see any signs of overfeeding so there is room to give more.
I also agree to look into MegaCrop if you plan on changing nute lines. You will save money and there's a thread dedicated to the product that is active and full of good advice. You can find a link in my signature below.

It's hard for me to say if that's enough water or not but they don't look overwatered or under so I'm assuming you're good there.

 

[Jimmy weed]

Try more fresh air maybe?

 

[DrCannaCanadian]

Hi @Cwmoore577 ,

You've got some great feedback so far!

I researched Green Leaf Nutrients MegaCrop for a day - read through the MegaCrop thread here at 420 Magazine - and have decided to make the switch.

PS: Green Leaf Nutrients is not a Sponsor here and we don't get a commission, it's just a great new cost effective product!

Good luck with your grow, let us know how things turn out, and we hope you decide to become a permanent member here!

 

[Cwmoore577]

If you have used those nutes(FloraSeries) before and are comfortable using them then there is no harm in changing. If it would be your first time using that line then I would advise against it. I always suggest to stick with what you know half way or better through a grow. Start a new grow with the new line. For now I would look at something that will give you a higher P and K to get you through flower to harvest.

The PPM numbers Hydro kindly enough posted, so you're not that far off but at the low end. I don't see any signs of overfeeding so there is room to give more.
I also agree to look into MegaCrop if you plan on changing nute lines. You will save money and there's a thread dedicated to the product that is active and full of good advice. You can find a link in my signature below.

It's hard for me to say if that's enough water or not but they don't look overwatered or under so I'm assuming you're good there.

I will look into that. And would you think adding a bloom booster would be a good idea so I’m not at the 11 ratio, Such as beastie bloomz?

Try more fresh air maybe?

I am trying to figure that out as well. Running the thin line between fanning in air and smelling up the house which I can’t do. I’ll have to install an intake fan soon when I have the funds.

Hi @Cwmoore577 ,

You've got some great feedback so far!

I researched Green Leaf Nutrients MegaCrop for a day - read through the MegaCrop thread here at 420 Magazine - and have decided to make the switch.

PS: Green Leaf Nutrients is not a Sponsor here and we don't get a commission, it's just a great new cost effective product!

Good luck with your grow, let us know how things turn out, and we hope you decide to become a permanent member here!

I’m on 4 different cannabis growing forums and this one by far has been the most helpful and welcoming one. I realize beginner questions can get tedious to continuously answer for experienced growers and I appreciate the help!

I’ll definitely check out the thread.

 

[MrSauga]

I will look into that. And would you think adding a bloom booster would be a good idea so I’m not at the 11 ratio, Such as beastie bloomz?

Yes it would make a big difference. What's the NPK for the Beastie Bloomz?

 

[No Pain]

check your run off ph and ec/ppm/tds I have never used that nutrient line so I cant offer aid there . As far as ppm I do not go over an Ec of 1.1 on a 500 scale = 550 ppm . It looks you have lockout/oversigns due to salt build up to me leaves starting to curl inwards begging for water and then well your brown and gray spots...Here is a pic of my neglected coco grow that didn't go over 1.1 ec … its a hempy style bucket and by neglect I mean no trimming and pouring 5 gallons of fresh solution through her 7.5 gallon pot once every two weeks (that is also about how long she took to finish the solution in her base tub . If your runnoff is high in salts keep pouring fresh clean phed water through her until its at or below your feed level , same if runoff ph is out of wack ..the two kinda go hand in hand though . Hope it helps .

 

[Cwmoore577]

Yes it would make a big difference. What's the NPK for the Beastie Bloomz?

0-50-30
I went to the hydro store to get it but they’re closed until Monday morning.

check your run off ph and ec/ppm/tds I have never used that nutrient line so I cant offer aid there . As far as ppm I do not go over an Ec of 1.1 on a 500 scale = 550 ppm . It looks you have lockout/oversigns due to salt build up to me leaves starting to curl inwards begging for water and then well your brown and gray spots...Here is a pic of my neglected coco grow that didn't go over 1.1 ec … its a hempy style bucket and by neglect I mean no trimming and pouring 5 gallons of fresh solution through her 7.5 gallon pot once every two weeks (that is also about how long she took to finish the solution in her base tub . If your runnoff is high in salts keep pouring fresh clean phed water through her until its at or below your feed level , same if runoff ph is out of wack ..the two kinda go hand in hand though . Hope it helps .

I forgot to put that info in. I check runoff almost every day. Today’s runoff was 6.06ph, 1230EC(or 1.23), and 850ppm.
The runoff ph fluctuates between 6.0-6.5 depending if I water 2 or 3 times a day. EC usually around 1.0-1.2.

Going in my ppm is rarely higher than 700-750. Ph always 5.8-6.0.

I think the biothrive line is sugar based and not salt based. Also I water to plenty of runoff each feeding I doubt it’s a buildup. Also some of the leaves could be curled or look strange because the plant is outgrowing the tent and the outsides are bent against the sides.

I’ve read that it’s never a good idea to water coco with plain water. Isn’t that harmful?
Also, how are you watering your coco grow once every 2 weeks? I don’t have much experience with coco with this being my first attempt but I would think that would be terrible for it?

 

[MrSauga]

0-50-30

That's really high in P and really you don't need a lot of P during bloom. Here's a good thread to quickly read. For now I would just add a bit more of your biothrive bloom to compensate. I think you were at 8mL/gal so try 9 or 10mL/ gal of the bloom.

Growing Without Bloom Nutes By Farside05

The "funk" in the back room is really starting to ramp up. Still that under tone of shit. Hope that doesn't transfer into the cure. No bag appeal at all. Never had anything smell this rank. Sour D is a strong odor, but one I secretly kinda like. But then again I love the smell if gasoline...

www.420magazine.com

 

[No Pain]

0-50-30


I forgot to put that info in. I check runoff almost every day. Today’s runoff was 6.06ph, 1230EC(or 1.23), and 850ppm.
The runoff ph fluctuates between 6.0-6.5 depending if I water 2 or 3 times a day. EC usually around 1.0-1.2.

Going in my ppm is rarely higher than 700-750. Ph always 5.8-6.0.

I think the biothrive line is sugar based and not salt based. Also I water to plenty of runoff each feeding I doubt it’s a buildup. Also some of the leaves could be curled or look strange because the plant is outgrowing the tent and the outsides are bent against the sides.

I’ve read that it’s never a good idea to water coco with plain water. Isn’t that harmful?
Also, how are you watering your coco grow once every 2 weeks? I don’t have much experience with coco with this being my first attempt but I would think that would be terrible for it?

What kind of meter are you using to check your Ec/ppm ? I only ask because of your 1230ec response ..anyway if its 1.2 and your ppm is 850 your meter is on a 700 scale ...on that scale I never go above .8 ec when measuring ec you are measuring salts (the electroconductivity of the solution) The leaf issues that I was refereeing to have nothing to do with a tent .

If your feed going in was 700 ppm and your runoff is 850 there is build up . running plain phed water through your container to remove build up will not hurt your plants ..

In regards to my plant my intention was never to leave it , however life happened and well it went for so long that way that i just kept the rhythm to see what would happen . You need to look up hempy style and the way i had the pot set up in the container with solution it really never started to dry out , it showed signs like the last day or two before i had to redrench it . But as far as regular coco you are correct , you shouldn't let it dry out .

In regards to your issues .. when it comes to plants indoors the main things (but not all) that can cause issues is the environment being day/night temp and humidity , grow medium feed / frequency , light source .

Your enviorment is a tad cool and dry for my taste but wouldnt cause what you are seeing

Now with your medium regardless of where it is acquired it is a good idea to soak it and test its runoff as if its coco based it will more than likely have salts that need removing . Look up Buffering Coco ..it is where the salts are removed from the medium prior to use and then the medium is soaked in a very high solution of cal/mag.. By doing this it helps ensure that your medium (coco) will not draw up the cal/mag in your nutrient solution and it will be available for your plants . I looked your brand up and it states directly in the description " As a coco fiber based soilless medium, it requires high levels of calcium and magnesium to unlock its true potential." By buffering you really wouldn't have to worry about it . In my neglected grow as an example I had buffered my medium as well as rinsed it and I did not put any extra cal/mag in my solution. the only real deficiency I saw and it could even be genetics of the plant was a P deficiency (red streak in the stalk)

Your feed however could be a tad on the heavy side for the plants that your growing , if you are watering 3 times a day with nutrient's that are mixed correctly and phed correctly to the point of a good amount of run off each and every time . You really shouldn't have any deficiency unless its to much and causing lock out . Another sign that you are puching your plants with feed is burnt tips and I could see those all over in the pictures. There is nothing wrong with pushing everyone does it , but when you see your tips turn yellow its time to hold if not back off a tad bit as you are at the maximum feed for your plant and pushing farther at that level or higher will begin to cause issues .

Lastly the light as you inquired about light burn . if you are following manufactures distances you really aren't going to get any light burn . Going from a burple light to the hps lamp im sure caused some stress , hwoever since it was done at the beginning of flowering your plants should be past that already .

So could you have two different issues causing the problem you are seeing ...the answer is yes ... i would start in the feed/medium section to try to rectify the issue .

 

[BeanTownFan420]

 

[Cwmoore577]

That's really high in P and really you don't need a lot of P during bloom. Here's a good thread to quickly read. For now I would just add a bit more of your biothrive bloom to compensate. I think you were at 8mL/gal so try 9 or 10mL/ gal of the bloom.

Growing Without Bloom Nutes By Farside05

The "funk" in the back room is really starting to ramp up. Still that under tone of shit. Hope that doesn't transfer into the cure. No bag appeal at all. Never had anything smell this rank. Sour D is a strong odor, but one I secretly kinda like. But then again I love the smell if gasoline...

www.420magazine.com

I’ll check it out. I picked up liquid KoolBloom from General Hydroponics instead. It’s NPK is 0-10-10.

 

[MrSauga]

I’ll check it out. I picked up liquid KoolBloom from General Hydroponics instead. It’s NPK is 0-10-10.

OK, just be careful with the dose. I would start at half what the manufacturer says, but I still think you would have been better off adding more bloom imho. Once you see how they react to half dose you can increase... or decrease if you see issues.

 

[Cwmoore577]

OK, just be careful with the dose. I would start at half what the manufacturer says, but I still think you would have been better off adding more bloom imho. Once you see how they react to half dose you can increase... or decrease if you see issues.

Ok I’ll keep it around the same ppm. Just didn’t want to stay at the 11 ratio.

 

[Cwmoore577]

What kind of meter are you using to check your Ec/ppm ? I only ask because of your 1230ec response ..anyway if its 1.2 and your ppm is 850 your meter is on a 700 scale ...on that scale I never go above .8 ec when measuring ec you are measuring salts (the electroconductivity of the solution) The leaf issues that I was refereeing to have nothing to do with a tent .

If your feed going in was 700 ppm and your runoff is 850 there is build up . running plain phed water through your container to remove build up will not hurt your plants ..

In regards to my plant my intention was never to leave it , however life happened and well it went for so long that way that i just kept the rhythm to see what would happen . You need to look up hempy style and the way i had the pot set up in the container with solution it really never started to dry out , it showed signs like the last day or two before i had to redrench it . But as far as regular coco you are correct , you shouldn't let it dry out .

In regards to your issues .. when it comes to plants indoors the main things (but not all) that can cause issues is the environment being day/night temp and humidity , grow medium feed / frequency , light source .

Your enviorment is a tad cool and dry for my taste but wouldnt cause what you are seeing

Now with your medium regardless of where it is acquired it is a good idea to soak it and test its runoff as if its coco based it will more than likely have salts that need removing . Look up Buffering Coco ..it is where the salts are removed from the medium prior to use and then the medium is soaked in a very high solution of cal/mag.. By doing this it helps ensure that your medium (coco) will not draw up the cal/mag in your nutrient solution and it will be available for your plants . I looked your brand up and it states directly in the description " As a coco fiber based soilless medium, it requires high levels of calcium and magnesium to unlock its true potential." By buffering you really wouldn't have to worry about it . In my neglected grow as an example I had buffered my medium as well as rinsed it and I did not put any extra cal/mag in my solution. the only real deficiency I saw and it could even be genetics of the plant was a P deficiency (red streak in the stalk)

Your feed however could be a tad on the heavy side for the plants that your growing , if you are watering 3 times a day with nutrient's that are mixed correctly and phed correctly to the point of a good amount of run off each and every time . You really shouldn't have any deficiency unless its to much and causing lock out . Another sign that you are puching your plants with feed is burnt tips and I could see those all over in the pictures. There is nothing wrong with pushing everyone does it , but when you see your tips turn yellow its time to hold if not back off a tad bit as you are at the maximum feed for your plant and pushing farther at that level or higher will begin to cause issues .

Lastly the light as you inquired about light burn . if you are following manufactures distances you really aren't going to get any light burn . Going from a burple light to the hps lamp im sure caused some stress , hwoever since it was done at the beginning of flowering your plants should be past that already .

So could you have two different issues causing the problem you are seeing ...the answer is yes ... i would start in the feed/medium section to try to rectify the issue .

I did buffer the coco before but also I think the Royal Gold products come prebuffered.
My meter for conductivity is an ultrameter 6p. Unsure if it’s 500 or 700 scale.

 

[MrSauga]

OK, sorry my mistake CW! I forgot your calmag was 2-0-0 and just went back to look. You way is good

Start with half dose so they don't get overfed on the first run