Medical Grow Setup Ideas

[Joshnorton]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post. I don't know if I'm "introducing myself" correctly, so if not, please point me in the right direction.
So, I'm a new patient, I've grown outdoors for 5ish years but this will be my first attempt at indoor cultivation. I listed my ideas for my setup below. I'm looking for opinions and yield expectations from everyone with real world experience. We can all read all day, there's no substitute for experience.

Everything will be in a large basement that stays around 65 F.

VEG:

3-4x 2 bulb 32w T8 Fixtures w/ 6500k bulbs (can't remember lumen output, but I'm planning blue-ish spectrum)
2.5 gal pots w/ Schultz All Purpose Potting Soil (I know, I know, but I've used it outside w/ plenty success, it's what I know)
No tent, I got a space in the corner behind the furnace/ductwork that's perfect size, the temp is maybe a few degrees higher
Maybe an oscillating fan kinda blowing at the plants

I have maybe 10 bags seeds from higher quality bags. I can order seeds and get into cloning on later grows. I plan to start seeds in peat pellets, then transplant to pots (maybe into solo cups first, then pots) and veg them to 2ish feet tall (topped and lst'd) under the fluoros 18/6. I don't know if I'll use all the seeds or exactly how I will start, but I plan to use clones and have 4 females vegging in this setup eventually.

FLOWER TENT:

3x3x6.5 ft or 4x4x6.5 ft mylar tent (I've looked at various brands, I'm leaning toward the $100-150 range)
Apollo 600 watt hps w/ air-cooled hood and digital ballast (no worries about the RF interference)
Ventech 6 inch 440 cfm fan
HydroCrunch 440 cfm carbon filter
5 gal buckets w/ same soil (I understand that I'll have to veg them for a little while after transplanting from the 2.5 gal pots)

I'm going to run passive intake then either filter>duct>hood>duct>basement window and outside with the Ventech in there somewhere. In the tent or out I haven't decided. As I said above, I plan to eventually be vegging 4 plants until they're 2ish feet tall (topped and lst'd) then flowering them in the tent. I'll have a speed control on the fan and I'll run it 24/7, full-ish power during lights on and half-ish power during lights off to start with tweaking later if needed.

As far as nutes, the first time out I'm going to use Miracle Grow Tomato Food 18-18-21 for veg and Shultz Bloom Builder 10-60-10 (or Booster, I can't remember which) for flower. Again, I know the stigma around MG and similar fertilizer, but I've already got enough of both leftover from this year and I've used it outdoors with great success, so for my first attempt, I'd like to go with what I know and worry about complicating things when I have more experience. I will be getting a cheap PH test kit just to get experience with PH as I've never bothered with it before. 6.5 to 7.0 is where you want the soil, right?

I understand about the fluoros and distance from plants, but I'm still on the fence about my veg setup. I could just veg in the tent and forget about the fluoros, but I'd really like a faster cycle. So I'm wondering: is this veg/flower setup valid for say, 2 months veg 2 months flower? Will the fluoros get them to 2 feet and respectably bushy plants? How will the fluoros affect yield versus just vegging and flowering them under the hps and waiting longer between harvests? What yields can I expect with the flouros versus the single-light setup? Will either setup even allow 2 month veg given the height of the tent?

I'm sure there are a few things I forgot to add, but that's pretty much it. I'm sure I'm forgetting some questions also. Again, I'm only going with those nutes because it's what worked in the past and it's what I know. I'll be upgrading in the future, I'm trying to keep a $800-900 budget for now. Thank you very much for any info and opinions you guys provide. I'm sure you guys get tired of answering the same newbie questions over and over again. Just know that I've researched my ass off and I've done my best to put in a lot of work before coming here.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

Hi, joshnorton and to magazine! You have some great questions there, and I look forward to reading the responses with you.
Have fun and much good luck with your set up!

 

[Joshnorton]

Hello cannafan. Thank you very much.

 

[Joshnorton]

Almost 200 views and no one has any opinions or advice? Come on y'all, I know this is the same ol' newb questions but help a fellow grower out a little. Please?

 

[Lady Cannafan]

Hey Josh, Good morning!
I'm going to make a suggestion that might help you out. Most of the experienced growers watch the FAQ thread regularly to help out new growers and give support. Maybe you could try posting your questions there too. Here's the link:

Frequently Asked Questions

I will pop around this morning and see who I can get to visit ya too. It's been a busy week for a lot of people off site.

 

[Joshnorton]

Thanks cannafan. Will do as soon as I get to my laptop. I only have my phone now and I'm not savvy enough to do cut from here and paste over there. What do you think of my planned setup? You've been kind and helpful thus far; I'd love to hear your opinion/advice.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

Actually Josh, we are similar with what is going. I like your plan thus far.
I am in a basement set up with the same temp range. I have vegged plants under CFL/flourescent tubes for two months and they didn't reach over two feet high with the LST'ing and they did get bushy to my liking.

I currently have clones going with the same method and plan to veg them until my harvest which should be mid-late December.
First grow for me too. I am also using a SCRog, and that helps keep a good manageable height. Even the stretch didn't get too high for me with a 4' height space to work with. Personally I am convinced that greater bushiness and yield are had with the higher power light sytems like HID/HPS. And I am very impressed so far with growers here using LED systems. I just can't swing the cost of those set ups right now, and I don't have the adequate exhaust for heat removal etc. in place like you have planned yet.
For vegging stage, I think I will always stick with the CFL's. No heat, little electric use and it works fine. For flowering, I would love to go with a different lighting system. Just my personal opinion from what I'm seeing on grows at this site.
You have everything planned out very well and have done some great research to plan things ahead. Love that!

I am using CFL's, so I really can't comment on HPS/HID systems and how all that lighting works or the effects on the growth/yield.
Feel free to stop by my journal when/if you have time, I post lots of pics to help new growers like me understand the complete process. The link is in my signature.
You do have a good plan, I just wish I could help on the differences in lighting yields.

 

[Gadfly]

Looks like there's not much to say. You have done your homework. I would go w the 4x4 tent using a 600watt. My tent is from secret jardin and it's a great middle cost product. I've used it for several years now through several moves. Easy to put up and take down.

I don't like mg but the stuff will work fine as long as it's not that time released crap. That stuff will fry the plants up.

and I look forward to seeing what you do.

 

[Joshnorton]

Thank you both for your replies. As I originally mentioned, there is no substitute for experience. And I don't have any indoor experience, so all indo from experienced growers is extremely helpful.
I want to take a second to speak on planning in case it could help out anyone else like me who may read this. Just as there's no substitute for experience, THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR A GOOD PLAN. I understand people get excited and anxious, but you have to slow down and do your homework. Have to. It seems kinda moronic to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars just to get started only to turn around a few weeks later and have to hit these forums like, "Help, my plants from these expensive-ass seeds are all fried, yellow, wilted, whatever." The real problem seems to always be poor planning. There should probably be a thread or section dedicated to the importance of research and planning. Newbies need to understand that you can't just buy a bunch of equiment you've seen other people use, slap it together and get a gram per watt of top shelf smoke. I learned the hard way about research and planning myself. That's why I'm taking the time to say this. And it doesn't just apply to growing weed. Would you believe that when I first started researching indoor cultivation, I thought I was going to put a 1000w with a gull wing reflector in a 4x4 tent and cool the whole thing with 2 fans I took out of an old computer? Lol. Respect and learn the process or you will end up spending $1000 on a half oz. at best. At worst you're gonna burn your house down.
Thanks again for the replies. I'm gonna redirect this to FAQ in a minute here, as per cannafan's advice. Good luck to all.

 

[Joshnorton]

How do I give you guys the +rep thing for your help? And what is that +rep about?

 

[Lady Cannafan]

Thank you both for your replies. As I originally mentioned, there is no substitute for experience. And I don't have any indoor experience, so all indo from experienced growers is extremely helpful.
I want to take a second to speak on planning in case it could help out anyone else like me who may read this. Just as there's no substitute for experience, THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR A GOOD PLAN. I understand people get excited and anxious, but you have to slow down and do your homework. Have to. It seems kinda moronic to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars just to get started only to turn around a few weeks later and have to hit these forums like, "Help, my plants from these expensive-ass seeds are all fried, yellow, wilted, whatever." The real problem seems to always be poor planning. There should probably be a thread or section dedicated to the importance of research and planning. Newbies need to understand that you can't just buy a bunch of equiment you've seen other people use, slap it together and get a gram per watt of top shelf smoke. I learned the hard way about research and planning myself. That's why I'm taking the time to say this. And it doesn't just apply to growing weed. Would you believe that when I first started researching indoor cultivation, I thought I was going to put a 1000w with a gull wing reflector in a 4x4 tent and cool the whole thing with 2 fans I took out of an old computer? Lol. Respect and learn the process or you will end up spending $1000 on a half oz. at best. At worst you're gonna burn your house down.
Thanks again for the replies. I'm gonna redirect this to FAQ in a minute here, as per cannafan's advice. Good luck to all.

You are right on planning, I took two months to plan my grow room...everything about the grow room! LOL I did not begin to even germ the seeds until that plan was completed and done.

There is a very good thread with information for New growers here on in the line of what you are talking about there, it doesn't replace good ol' experience but it's a great beginning point. If you haven't seen it yet, here's the link:
How to Grow Marijuana Everything You Need to Know

By the sound of it, there may be much there you are already aware of with your extensive research, but I wanted to post that for you anyway.
I will look for your thread in FAQ's soon! Keep it green!

 

[TanR]

Hi Joshnorton.

Having failed to do so previously, let me begin by extending a warm welcome to the 420 Magazine site.

I believe the setup you propose will work to achieve most of what your seeking. As cannafan suggested, I think 2 ft. seedlings might be a little ambitious given a two month veg time, but probably not by much and especially not if you begin using clones after your initial seeds reach a state of growth to allow cloning.

I even took clones during my first grow without yet knowing the sex of the plants. I took 3 or 4 clones from each of my first 3 plants as the mothers matured, so even if one or two of the "mamas" turned out to be "papas", I would still have 3 or 4 viable plants for the next grow.

Without knowing the specifics of strains you'll growing, I'd also like to suggest padding your 2 month flower time expectation by a couple weeks. There are some varieties, that with the right conditions, will reach maturity with 8 weeks of flowering but most of the stuff I've seen grown seems to take more like 10 or 12 weeks to reach the peak of maturity indoors.

If you'll allow, I'd like to suggest a 4x4 tent. That little bit of extra room comes in pretty handy when your trying to work with your girls and four plants can get pretty big.

I have the same HID light you propose and it has served me well so far. Don't forget to order and extra HPS and MH bulb unless you live near somewhere to find a replacement quickly if one goes out. Kind of a panicky moment if a bulb goes out and you have to order a replacement off the internet.

One other thought I'd like to offer on the light. I have regretted since day one not getting an air cooled hood with my light. At the time, I just didn't realize how much heat those HID bulbs put off and I was trying to shave a few bucks off my initial investment. Have seriously regretted it ever since and have probably spent $100 trying to compensate for the $15 or $20 bucks I saved in buying an open air style reflector.

As for yield, I made almost every noob mistake one could (except overwatering and overfeeding) in my first indoor grow. Like you, I had some experience growing outdoors although not as much as you, and none with indoor cultivation. I initially tried using left over outdoor organic nutrients and really struggled to get dosing levels and feeding schedule dialed in. I finally broke down and ordered some affordable cannabis specific nutrients and just after flowering began and things smoothed out then.

In all, my first indoor grow (from seed) lasted more like 5 months and the plants were pretty decent size by the time I harvested (about 4 ft including the 5 gallon container). I had 3 plants (2 indica dominant, 1 sativa dominant) grown in a scrog, and harvested a little over 7 1/2 oz (dry weight always). Not a big harvest I realize, but for a first time attempt and all things considered, I wasn't unhappy with those results. I would expect you will enjoy a more bountiful harvest if you can avoid some of the mistakes I made.

Be well, happy growing, and again welcome to

 

[Lady Cannafan]

How do I give you guys the +rep thing for your help? And what is that +rep about?

Hi Josh,
+reps are given to give members reputation points for doing something you feel is deserving of them. Reputation points is what makes the little green bars under your name. To give +reps to someone, you would click on the little sheriff badge icon in the box where the members name is (at the bottom).
You can check your own likes/reps recently given by clicking on the bar at the top of the page that says "User CP", that will show recent notifications. You also see this in your settings area.
Hope that helps!

 

[Joshnorton]

Man, I can't say thank you enough. All of you.
Cannafan - The "Everything You Need..." guide was awesome. Wish I woulda found that 2 months ago.
TanR - Thanks a heap for your reply. I really want a 4x4 tent, my thinking with getting a 3x3 was that I would need more intensity given that I'm vegging under the weaker fluoros as opposed to a mh or hps. I'm still on the fence about that fluoro setup. If I have to wait 6 months for my first harvest then have a 3 month cycle after that, so be it. But, after further research, I think using an mh for veg would get them to the size I want a lot faster. I already have a 4 bulb fluoro fixture as primary lighting in the basement, so maybe I'll replace the bulbs in that and use it for cloning and early veg, then switch to the mh once the plants get 6-8 inches under the fluoros. Then I'll switch to hps for flower. What do you think?

 

[TanR]

Morning Joshnorton.

I think you'll be pleased with cloning/early veg'ing under fluoro's. I think you'll find that you can get the light so close to the plants that you'll get nice bushy plants with tight spacing between the nodes. This will help keep the overall height down without sacrificing yield. If you take your clones early enough in the veg'ing phase of the first plants under the HID light, you will easily have plants that are 20 or more inches that you can cycle into flowering as the others finish maturing.

I understand your thinking regarding the smaller tent, but I believe you might be overestimating the benefit of light reflected off the walls. A large majority of light used by your plants will be from directly overhead. The light reflected off the walls and floor of the tent is certainly not lost to the plants, but will not be a huge driver of growth one direction or another. Due to the inverse square law of light, once you get outside the "sweet spot" of your light (~2 ft. in any direction) the intensity drops so quickly that it rapidly decreases in benefit. I believe you would get more benefit from allowing the plants to have a wider canopy (allowing for better light penetration from overhead), than having them crowded together and hoping to benefit from slightly greater intensity of reflected light.

Have you considered or are you familiar with scrog growing? Where you put a grid of sorts over the plants and use the grid to spread the canopy out? Below are a couple photo's that I've borrowed from another grower demonstrating the principal. Might be worth considering.

and about 25 days later.

 

[Joshnorton]

Hey TanR,
Thank you for the reply. Yeah, I'm familiar with scrogging. I'll probably get into it eventually, once I feel like I have a better handle on this indoor thing.
Just to clarify, I can veg entirely under the fluoros and use the hps exclusively for flowering? You mentioned using the fluoros for early veg and later you mentioned vegging under the HID and I'm confused. Or are you talking abot vegging under the HID with the scrog net? Which would mean I can't veg a full scrog canopy under the fluorescents?

 

[Lady Cannafan]

Hey Josh,
I vegged entirely under CFL's, and have clones in there now waiting to move to flower. It works perfectly fine for me.
I am also flowering under CFL's, but I really want to go HPS/HID or LED at some point near future.
Just my input. ;-)

 

[Gadfly]

Tan writes a lot, but the advice is always solid. I don't credit everyone every time but I've certainly been schooled a few times reading up on his posts.

 

[Joshnorton]

Hey guys,
Yeah, I got it. I just misunderstood him and had to re-read it. Didnt help that I was high. Pretty sure I get it now, I think....thanks again for all o' y'alls help. I'll definiteley post a journal here in about a month so you can see your advice in action. Plus I'm sure I'll have more questions.
Good luck to all. Thanks again.

 

[Joshnorton]

Allso, to TanR,
my thinking with the 3x3 wasnt necessarily in terms of reflectivity but in watts per square foot. Perhaps I'm confused a little, no?