Never had this happenneed some help

[Makeminefullgrown]

it looks hungry.

Yes….i thought so to…..so the first thing I did was transplant from 1/2 gal container to a 5gal. The mix is KokoBop, which is amended…..plus I added a light application of Organic 4-4-4, worm castings, basalt and myco…..plus some extra perlite. So it should be well fortified for the time being.
I just took the pics below……plant 1 looks pretty good all around and plant 2 looks good at all the main branches/tops. It’s the new growth that’s in the dead center that’s struggling a bit. I was hoping to get that center area filled in with tops before flipping. And it may do fine once the small tops grow a little.
I guess I could just strip everything from the center and focus on the perimeter.
Thoughts ??

 

[Makeminefullgrown]

Could be some calcium or nitrogen deficiency. The pale wilted leaves could also be from a hot dry environment. The lack of lateral branching is a sign of low lighting PAR. Spending all it's energy reaching up to the light rather than filling in the canopy with side branching.

That was like day 3 of it being in my care….the pic below is roughly 2 weeks later….

 

[Azimuth]

plant 1 looks pretty good all around and plant 2 looks good at all the main branches/tops. It’s the new growth that’s in the dead center that’s struggling a bit. I was hoping to get that center area filled in with tops before flipping. And it may do fine once the small tops grow a little.
I guess I could just strip everything from the center and focus on the perimeter.
Thoughts ??

Since the outer limbs are higher than those in the center, they will be dominant and get more of the growth hormones. To get the lower ones to catch up you'd have to tie the taller ones down so their tops are lower than the others. This will trick the plant into thinking it's lost those leaders and will then send the hormones more to the lower ones.

I'm not sure that's worth it though at this stage to be honest. They'll flower fine once you flip since they'll have ample access to light.

 

[Makeminefullgrown]

Since the outer limbs are higher than those in the center, they will be dominant and get more of the growth hormones. To get the lower ones to catch up you'd have to tie the taller ones down so their tops are lower than the others. This will trick the plant into thinking it's lost those leaders and will then send the hormones more to the lower ones.

I'm not sure that's worth it though at this stage to be honest. They'll flower fine once you flip since they'll have ample access to light.

I didn’t know that…..I kinda figured that the tops closer to the light would grow a bit faster but never realized the dynamics that you pointed out……you’re never too old to learn.
I’m wondering if the plant would yield just as much without any of that center growth, having just the 10-12 main tops? Or should I keep them and avoid any wasted space?
I should note that it’ll be a good 3-4 weeks before they get flipped. I have plenty of room for a third plant and the potential sisters are only 2 week old seedlings. So I figured I’d let them grow another 3 weeks and flip with the 2 larger girls and one smaller one.

 

[bluter]

the plant will always prioritize apical colas, removing the smaller growth directs more resources to them and they will develop further. you don't really lose any weight in the end.

 

[Azimuth]

I didn’t know that…..I kinda figured that the tops closer to the light would grow a bit faster but never realized the dynamics that you pointed out……you’re never too old to learn.
I’m wondering if the plant would yield just as much without any of that center growth, having just the 10-12 main tops? Or should I keep them and avoid any wasted space?
I should note that it’ll be a good 3-4 weeks before they get flipped. I have plenty of room for a third plant and the potential sisters are only 2 week old seedlings. So I figured I’d let them grow another 3 weeks and flip with the 2 larger girls and one smaller one.

There's balance between fewer but larger colas and many smaller ones that might give you more total weight (and more trimming ) so you don't want 100 small colas even though that might be the highest harvest weight, and you want more than one or two since they won't be big enough to offset the loss of total weight you'd get from smaller buds.

So maybe try for a balance say, maybe 4-6 inches between buds and thin out the rest. You'll get fewer but larger individual colas and if you remove everything underneath the canopy, the resources that would have gone into the small popcorn type "larf" buds, can be better used by the fewer remains colas allowing them to get a bit larger.

 

[Sativa1970]

Since the outer limbs are higher than those in the center, they will be dominant and get more of the growth hormones.

Not disagreeing, yes tie them back, but to clarify for OP it's not the vertical height but distance from direct light determines dominance. It's a self full filling prophecy. The more direct light that hits the leaf, the more auxin hormone is produced. Auxin is responsible for growing towards the light. That's why shaded branches meander. The more light intensity converted at a leaf into glucose the more gibberellin hormone is produced. Gibberellin promotes elongation growth AKA main colas.

So light intensity determines the hormone production that promotes the branch growing closer to the light in turn producing more auxin and gibberellin. The cycle continues until the maximum number of main branches dominate the available light. Old growth stores more glucose, new growth produces more glucose and hormones. New growth under the most intense light will produce more growth hormone and glucose exploding in growth. The outer branches will try to grow inward toward the most intense light to maintain dominance.

 

[Makeminefullgrown]

Not disagreeing, yes tie them back, but to clarify for OP it's not the vertical height but distance from direct light determines dominance. It's a self full filling prophecy. The more direct light that hits the leaf, the more auxin hormone is produced. Auxin is responsible for growing towards the light. That's why shaded branches meander. The more light intensity converted at a leaf into glucose the more gibberellin hormone is produced. Gibberellin promotes elongation growth AKA main colas.

So light intensity determines the hormone production that promotes the branch growing closer to the light in turn producing more auxin and gibberellin. The cycle continues until the maximum number of main branches dominate the available light. Old growth stores more glucose, new growth produces more glucose and hormones. New growth under the most intense light will produce more growth hormone and glucose exploding in growth. The outer branches will try to grow inward toward the most intense light to maintain dominance.

Thank you sir for the comments. It’s nice to know the science behind it all, although my retention levels are diminishing by the day.
I’m afraid by the time I have a 3rd plant big enough to flip, the 2 originals will be taking up all of the available space.
The pic is from this morn…..I just moved the largest seedling into the 1 gal (from a solo cup). U can see that the 2 older plants are already becoming unruly.
I think I’ll stop with any further tie downs and just let them grow vertically.
One of the 3 seedlings is a strain I really want to grow, so I hope it’ll be decent size before the originals grow out of the space.
I’ve never had this issue before.

 

[Sativa1970]

It's just a matter of time before we all outgrow our space at least once. It's always for that one more strain we can not wait to grow. What is your plan concerning flowering? Are you flowering all of the plants together or dividing the space into veg and flower lighting somehow?
Now that I can see the scale, 3 of those plants in 12 square foot is tight. Add vegging for a few more weeks and 5 plants I don't see how they will fit. Not to mention they can double in size during the stretch when you flip the lights. Shading each other and pushing the humidity way up is just asking for problems.
If at all possible I would set up a temporary "veg box", outside the closet, for the 3 seedlings and start flowering the 2 adults. You can veg under any ight except incandescent. Enclosure is optional but any box or a tarp tenting will work. When a seedling is big enough you can move one into the flower closet. That would be roughly 4-5 weeks from now..? Then in another 4-5 weeks harvest 2 plants and move the last 2 veg into flower.

 

[Makeminefullgrown]

It's just a matter of time before we all outgrow our space at least once. It's always for that one more strain we can not wait to grow. What is your plan concerning flowering? Are you flowering all of the plants together or dividing the space into veg and flower lighting somehow?
Now that I can see the scale, 3 of those plants in 12 square foot is tight. Add vegging for a few more weeks and 5 plants I don't see how they will fit. Not to mention they can double in size during the stretch when you flip the lights. Shading each other and pushing the humidity way up is just asking for problems.
If at all possible I would set up a temporary "veg box", outside the closet, for the 3 seedlings and start flowering the 2 adults. You can veg under any ight except incandescent. Enclosure is optional but any box or a tarp tenting will work. When a seedling is big enough you can move one into the flower closet. That would be roughly 4-5 weeks from now..? Then in another 4-5 weeks harvest 2 plants and move the last 2 veg into flower.

My plans was to only have one of the three small ones in that space. The other 2 will go outside. I usually grow 3 and it’s always been a good number….but I usually flip to flower when the plants are the size of the 2 big ones.
I think I’ll let them go another week or so and see how much progress I get out of the small ones. If one of those takes a nice jump, I’ll probably veg another week or two (at the most) and flip.
I used to grow a good bit outside, years ago. Here in Va, harvest time can be a roll of the dice with the weather. So I thought about setting the small seedlings outside while the others flower…:…then 10-12weeks later, harvest the indoor plants and move the others back inside and flip immediately. I’ve never moved a plant from outdoors back inside to flower, but I don’t see why it wouldn’t be viable.
Thanks for chiming in.

 

[013]

Hey MMFG!

Yes but the short day lengths will cause outdoor girls to start building flower hormones…. obviously you can always reveg but that changes timeline. Going from outdoors to inside is ok but friendly reminder to have a bulletproof ipm routine in place.

Nice garden, it’s a good problem to run out of space!

 

[Sativa1970]

Good to hear you were not planning on flowering all 5 in there at once and you have a good plan. You never know until you ask.
You could have some minor overlap of maturity and lights cycle to briefly nudge flower hormone. You need long nights and a mature plant before it can start flower. We are at 12.5/11.5 outside right now. They will be slow growing with short days, and I'm guessing cooler temps there. Under ideal conditions it looks like you would have 3 weeks till mature so maybe 4-5 with outside environment. May1st is 14/10, so the days will be too long to induce flower by then. Worst case you add 2 weeks outside veg time with reveg. Bigger concern is bringing pests into the room with an outside plant. Have a plan to delouse the plant and the soil.