Ph keeps dropping in my aeroponic system?

[H20gro]

I thought you were in an aero cloner.
What is your light cycle?
And your intensity?
Little ones like that don't like a lot of strong LED light.
I found a t5 above my sprayer box worked best.
I dipped them in a combo of root gel and powder mixed into a paste.
Wait a couple hrs then turn on sprayer.
I also put clonex and Superthrive in the sprayer.
I ran 14 on 10 off for the first couple days.
I quit using it though, I couldn't keep liquid temps in range.
Don't know if that helps.
But that's what worked for me.
@H20gro hey Amigo do you have any suggestions that might help us here?
Or anyone else have a suggestion ?




#VIVOSUN #Love What You Grow
Bill284

Hola @Bill284 and welcome to the OP! What an amazing grow setup! Im jealous of your ingenuity and skills, @Mickpascal.

My two cents worth on the ph and the clones is this:

1) as i learned from @Bill284, ph is a daily task. As @Delps8 or @bluter mentioned, ph changes as nutes are used by plant. It also changes as water is taken up by plants, and this can be affected by various conditions, ie, temperature, air circulation, life cycle of plant etc. the sooner you accept that ph is ever changing and needs daily attention, the sooner you will find some sanity.

2) we gotta get your cloning process fixed for sure. I will go bqck and review exactly what youre doing, but meanwhile i will share my method, which to date has been fool proof. Seriously, ive come to expect 100% success rate when i clone and you should too.

As bill284 mentioned, you cant really give them water or nutes other than a brief mist 2/3x a day for only a few days.

So heres my very effective, non-aeroponic method:

First i cut the leaves in half so the plant has less work to do, ie, cut tips off leaves down to about 1/2 length of leaves.

Then i cut the stem on bias/angle to provide more surface area.

Dip stem tip in clonex, and place into rapid rooter, but rockwool works fine too.

The rooter/rockwool should be soaked beforehand, excess water squeezed out, and placed on tray just above water. (If youre using aeroponic which ive done, the stems need to protrude through bottom of rooter/clone pad/etc.

Again, i use a dome, but have had same success with homemade aeroponic cloner.

Once you get tray filled w clones and dome lid on w vents closed, you wanna keep it humid. Water in tray and spray thoroughly the inside of dome and plants. Do this spraying 3x day for two days.

As for water used, ive had success w extra hard (450ppm) tap water as well as ro water, even bottled spring water. But dont use nutes in the spray or water. As bill said, it makes em lazy.

After two days of closed vents and 3x sprays, open the vents for a day, reduce spray to 2x day.

Next day close vents. Spray 2x

Around day 6 i remove dome completely for 1-2 hours. Then spray and replace dome. Make sure tray has water

Day 7- remove dome for 2 hours then replace

Day 10-12 roots appear

Also, too much light is bad for clones. They want very little indirect light. And if you can, use a heating mat unless ambient temp is 85-90f.

When ive used an aero bucket it was a constant spray of water on the stems and voila.

Regardless, ive found cloning to be very simple and this method to be very reliable/efficient. Without fail, 12 days max, roots appear and the plants thrive.

As i said, i will look back at what youre doing, but i saw the plastic cup over the cutting, and there has to be some way to vent after first couple of days. It hardens the … stem.. for lack of technical term.. when ive done it aero, there was no dome involved, but the old school dome, tray, heating pad is almost infallable.

Great grow setup, but not much help until we get you cloning like a champ, and we will. However you choose to do it.


Daily ph checks and adjustments, and this clone method will do wonders

Imho

 

[Mickpascal]

this right here. you'll have zero trouble if starting from an areo-cloner. the roots need to be fairly long and flowing out of the cups.






it shows. love the organization too.





i took a break for a year, every time i do it takes a whole scary grow to get things working again. i worked in a larger med grow with other folk for close to ten yrs. when i had to do my own small grow again it was like i'd never seen the plant.

I add vidoes to show you around. Do you see i missing something ore doing something wrong here? Please tell me if you need more videos ore info!?

gorgeous set up. you couldn't pay me to run all that gear now that i've abandoned active hydro.
the clone doesn't look very well established. i'd run the system as if cloning at this point.




you'll need to run cal-mag for sure. it shouldn't be having much of an effect on something that small but i'd do it from the get go.

lets see the plants. so far all i've seen is one toughed up clone and a bunch of gear.

Ok I will sent you pictures. My clones look very bad i see. Roots are not that big yet but I thought my aeroponic system could act like a aeroponic cloner and grow the roots bigger in the aeroponic bucket system. Are the roots okey to put in the system? I use marshydro fc 6500 730w but on 20 % generating 5000-6500 lux.

Water nutriens solution temp 18-19
Aeroponic bucket temp 20-22.7 (rootzone)
Mist frequency 1 min on, 5 min off
I use sidement and carbon filter to tread water from return bucket to main tank.
I use uv sterilizer 24 w 24/7 at the moment.

Im not sure if I treat the water right.
When I flush the tank i do this:

1: Make ro water and I only ise ro water. (No tap water)
2: Mix 100 liter ro wwater with 75 ml hydroperoxide 12%
3: add grow a and b
4: Then I normally wait 2 h for the chiller to cold down water to 18 degrease.
5: I turn on

I got som cal mag, silica and humic i didnt use yet. Tomorrow i will get some beneficial bacteria to dip the rockwool in. And then remove the black cover tape on the lid of aeroponic bucket so good bacteria can get light and grow!?

I hope you can lead my in the right direction !?

 

[H20gro]

also, my clone light cycle is 24/7, but i keep small led bulbs almost 4 feet from clones. The lights are very simple and fairly low wattage. I have four bulbs like this in a 4 way light socket splitter. Ive had success w only one of these bulbs, 3-4 feet away

 

[Mickpascal]

Just noticed something - if you've got any metal other than stainless (or gold, I'd assume) coming in contact with nutrient solution, you may want to rethink things.

One of the mods on a website that's dedicated to auto flowers (I'm assuming it's against the rules to provide the URL), had brass fittings in the plumbing for his holding tank. The interaction with the nute solution slowly poisoned his plants.

I'll see if I can find the details…

[found it]

and

This was the fitting that caused the issue:

I found this metal?

gorgeous set up. you couldn't pay me to run all that gear now that i've abandoned active hydro.
the clone doesn't look very well established. i'd run the system as if cloning at this point.




you'll need to run cal-mag for sure. it shouldn't be having much of an effect on something that small but i'd do it from the get go.

lets see the plants. so far all i've seen is one toughed up clone and a bunch of gear.

Ok I will sent you pictures. My clones look very bad i see. Roots are not that big yet but I thought my aeroponic system could act like a aeroponic cloner and grow the roots bigger in the aeroponic bucket system. Are the roots okey to put in the system? I use marshydro fc 6500 730w but on 20 % generating 5000-6500 lux.

Water nutriens solution temp 18-19
Aeroponic bucket temp 20-22.7 (rootzone)
Mist frequency 1 min on, 5 min off
I use sidement and carbon filter to tread water from return bucket to main tank.
I use uv sterilizer 24 w 24/7 at the moment.

Im not sure if I treat the water right.
When I flush the tank i do this:

1: Make ro water and I only ise ro water. (No tap water)
2: Mix 100 liter ro wwater with 75 ml hydroperoxide 12%
3: add grow a and b
4: Then I normally wait 2 h for the chiller to cold down water to 18 degrease.
5: I turn on

I got som cal mag, silica and humic i didnt use yet. Tomorrow i will get some beneficial bacteria to dip the rockwool in. And then remove the black cover tape on the lid of aeroponic bucket so good bacteria can get light and grow!?

I hope you can lead my in the right direction !?

 

[H20gro]

When these two were young, i topped both and followed the cloning method i mentioned above.

Now the two tops are in coco and preparing to be moms

 

[H20gro]

Cannabis Cloning Made Easy... Roots in 7-10 Days! | Grow Weed Easy

Mr Green has been growing marijuana on a commercial scale since 1990 and has made thousands of clones. Learn the exact technique he uses to get clones consistently rooted fast, in 7-10 days!

www.growweedeasy.com

Just some more info upon which ive relied

 

[H20gro]

One more thing on the ph issue..I know you have a fancy setup but i would always have a backup ph meter. When you get a ph reading that surprises you, double check w another meter. Otherwise you can really chase your tail and have problems. (Guilty)

Ok. That was a lot for two cents, but thats what i see so far

 

[bluter]

those clones aren't gonna cut it. frankly i don't like rockwool either, but it has it's places.

look up the diy bubble cloner on this site, that or an areocloner is what i would use. they don't use rockwool you could even hempy clone, then move it to hydroton and use those cups in the aeroponics rig.

when you move to the big rig you may need to top feed for a bit before you get enough roots moving out of the cup. after that the misters can take over completely.

I use sidement and carbon filter to tread water from return bucket to main tank.

if you are recirculating you'll be stripping the nutes out doing that.

 

[Mickpascal]

One more thing on the ph issue..I know you have a fancy setup but i would always have a backup ph meter. When you get a ph reading that surprises you, double check w another meter. Otherwise you can really chase your tail and have problems. (Guilty)

Ok. That was a lot for two cents, but thats what i see so far

Yes I got 4 backup ph/ec monitors. I also calibrete ph probe once a month.

Do you think its the led light that make the clones slowly die? Did you read the procedure i do when I prepare water ore any other indications what you be wrong. The roots of my rockwool clones are not so big.
Also rootzone temp on 22.5 degrease if that if the problem. The nutriens solution temp 18-19

 

[Bill284]

Hola @Bill284 and welcome to the OP! What an amazing grow setup! Im jealous of your ingenuity and skills, @Mickpascal.

My two cents worth on the ph and the clones is this:

1) as i learned from @Bill284, ph is a daily task. As @Delps8 or @bluter mentioned, ph changes as nutes are used by plant. It also changes as water is taken up by plants, and this can be affected by various conditions, ie, temperature, air circulation, life cycle of plant etc. the sooner you accept that ph is ever changing and needs daily attention, the sooner you will find some sanity.

2) we gotta get your cloning process fixed for sure. I will go bqck and review exactly what youre doing, but meanwhile i will share my method, which to date has been fool proof. Seriously, ive come to expect 100% success rate when i clone and you should too.

As bill284 mentioned, you cant really give them water or nutes other than a brief mist 2/3x a day for only a few days.

So heres my very effective, non-aeroponic method:

First i cut the leaves in half so the plant has less work to do, ie, cut tips off leaves down to about 1/2 length of leaves.

Then i cut the stem on bias/angle to provide more surface area.

Dip stem tip in clonex, and place into rapid rooter, but rockwool works fine too.

The rooter/rockwool should be soaked beforehand, excess water squeezed out, and placed on tray just above water. (If youre using aeroponic which ive done, the stems need to protrude through bottom of rooter/clone pad/etc.

Again, i use a dome, but have had same success with homemade aeroponic cloner.

Once you get tray filled w clones and dome lid on w vents closed, you wanna keep it humid. Water in tray and spray thoroughly the inside of dome and plants. Do this spraying 3x day for two days.

As for water used, ive had success w extra hard (450ppm) tap water as well as ro water, even bottled spring water. But dont use nutes in the spray or water. As bill said, it makes em lazy.

After two days of closed vents and 3x sprays, open the vents for a day, reduce spray to 2x day.

Next day close vents. Spray 2x

Around day 6 i remove dome completely for 1-2 hours. Then spray and replace dome. Make sure tray has water

Day 7- remove dome for 2 hours then replace

Day 10-12 roots appear

Also, too much light is bad for clones. They want very little indirect light. And if you can, use a heating mat unless ambient temp is 85-90f.

When ive used an aero bucket it was a constant spray of water on the stems and voila.

Regardless, ive found cloning to be very simple and this method to be very reliable/efficient. Without fail, 12 days max, roots appear and the plants thrive.

As i said, i will look back at what youre doing, but i saw the plastic cup over the cutting, and there has to be some way to vent after first couple of days. It hardens the … stem.. for lack of technical term.. when ive done it aero, there was no dome involved, but the old school dome, tray, heating pad is almost infallable.

Great grow setup, but not much help until we get you cloning like a champ, and we will. However you choose to do it.


Daily ph checks and adjustments, and this clone method will do wonders

Imho

Thank you




#VIVOSUN #Love What You Grow
Bill284

 

[Mickpascal]

ir you are recirculating you'll be stripping the nutes out doing that

Are you sure? Sediment filter remove dust, slim and more, carbon filter bacteria, alegea. A ro filter remove minerals? I dont have ro filter on the recirkulation filter. Only Sediment and carbon!?? Also ec been stable.

 

[Bill284]

those clones aren't gonna cut it. frankly i don't like rockwool either, but it has it's places.

look up the diy bubble cloner on this site, that or an areocloner is what i would use. they don't use rockwool you could even hempy clone, then move it to hydroton and use those cups in the aeroponics rig.

when you move to the big rig you may need to top feed for a bit before you get enough roots moving out of the cup. after that the misters can take over completely.


if you are recirculating you'll be stripping the nutes out doing that.

I never liked Rock wool.
Always always feks with the ph.
Retains water too I find lazy roots.



#VIVOSUN #Love What You Grow
Bill284

 

[H20gro]

Yes I got 4 backup ph/ec monitors. I also calibrete ph probe once a month.

Do you think its the led light that make the clones slowly die? Did you read the procedure i do when I prepare water ore any other indications what you be wrong. The roots of my rockwool clones are not so big.
Also rootzone temp on 22.5 degrease if that if the problem. The nutriens solution temp 18-19

I do believe too much light can be a problem. As for temp, they like warm humid environment to root

Here is another thought…. I saw a youtube video once (i will try to locate) on cloning and the guy used the term “herbaceous” to describe the type of cutting that does best in cloning cannabis. His use if the term referred to the cutting being too woody or too flimsy.

In other words, you want to take care not to try and clone an older, “woody” cutting nor a too young and flimsy cutting. Somewhere in between.

Your cutting looks a little “woodier” than ideal. Maybe its just me or my memory, but just be aware of the “herbaceous” qualities of your cutting.

 

[H20gro]

“Herbaceousness” video

“Cannabis cloning 101: kevin jodrey…” in case you cant view here

 

[Mickpascal]

those clones aren't gonna cut it. frankly i don't like rockwool either, but it has it's places.

look up the diy bubble cloner on this site, that or an areocloner is what i would use. they don't use rockwool you could even hempy clone, then move it to hydroton and use those cups in the aeroponics rig.

when you move to the big rig you may need to top feed for a bit before you get enough roots moving out of the cup. after that the misters can take over completely.


if you are recirculating you'll be stripping the nutes out doing that.

Is the roots of clones not big enough for my aeroponic system? Ore not ready for marshydro fc 6500 730w but dim to 20 % 5000 lux!?
What should I do? Put them back in propagator with dome? Ore

 

[H20gro]

Is the roots of clones not big enough for my aeroponic system? Ore not ready for marshydro fc 6500 730w but dim to 20 % 5000 lux!?
What should I do? Put them back in propagator with dome? Ore

Unfortunately, i do not hold much optimism for these guys succeeding. Did you cut these yourself or did you buy them from a retailer or?

All i can say is start w a healthy mother, keep it simple w dome method, and less than two weeks later you’ll have what you need.

Id scrap this project but i hope either way you get moving in the right direction. Even if you can manage to resuscitate these, itll be more than two weeks before theyre healthy again. So if you have access to a mother source, id cut em today and plant em in 12 days.

Positive vibes to you pheuxn.(i googled that)

 

[bluter]

Is the roots of clones not big enough for my aeroponic system?

not even close. you want them a few inches long at least. those clones are in awful shape. there's no way that rig can save them. it's possible they can be turned around, but not in the big rig, and it may be too much effort to be worth it.

What should I do? Put them back in propagator with dome?

you might try. it'll be nip and tuck there too.

Are you sure? Sediment filter remove dust, slim and more, carbon filter bacteria, alegea. A ro filter remove minerals? I dont have ro filter on the recirkulation filter. Only Sediment and carbon!?? Also ec been stable.

RO removes everything. it should take you back to about 5 - 15 ppm. can mostly leave the others too, i'd run without, but i see the reasoning on a larger system.

 

[AgedMaster]

Hi pal i remember seeing something about ro some where they say to add this to water 3 grams water soluble gypsum and .3 grams AG epsom salt per gallon of RO water and let aerate over night

i was meant too say it will stabilize res

I don't no if rdwc is same as aeroponics recirculates feed but my friend feeds 7 times a day when his plants get bigger he only has to change hes res once a week i do agree that those cuttings aren't going to do nothing the roots should be fluffy

 

[H20gro]

It matters not how much gypsum, epsom salt or whatever you dont put in ro water for the purpose of cloning.

As i mentioned earlier ive used hard tap water, soft ro water, spring bottled water etc and never a problem w any. Why?

Id say because clones dont need the water, ie, they use it differently as cuttings. Obviously no roots to take up water but the humidity and spraying water gets used via leaves and vpd and all that scientific stuff.

But as mentioned here several times now, the cutting needs to search for water. Not be given water, so unless you live in flint michigan or somewhere w toxic water supply you can really use any water during cloning.

Having said all that, i am going to repeat what i said earlier and urge you to abandon these cuttings and start over. Even IF you somehow manage to salvage them, itll be a long while before theyre viable and even then they will likely not be healthy.

And if you insist on using the buckets to propagate your cuttings (vs dome), id cho what someone said earlier and look at a different design on this site.

When ive used bubble/aeroponic style cloning its been one bucket for 7-10? Cuttings, and a very simple neoprene disc in which the cutting sits i. A hile in bucket lid. Small spray jets and tubing from pump srays stems continuously. Im not certain but am assuming it took a little longer to root, but had very healthy roots that way.

At this point im getting frustrated at the frustration youre subjecting yourself to unnecessarily. Cut your losses, start ovet and save the headaches.

I will shut up now. Best of luck whatever you decide

 

[Delps8]

I've never done anything with cloning so I have nothing to offer on that topic.

Just looking at the plant, though, they have so few leaves and they're being given so little light, I don't see how they can be expected to survive. You're reporting 7000 lux which is very low for seedlings and, seeing that a clone is, essentially, a small plant, I would expect that light levels for clones would be at least as high as for a seedling.

7k lux works out to 105µmols± and that's very low for a seedling. Below are the data for the first two weeks from my current grow. You're at 105, my plants got 150 for just two days — that's 50% more light than you're giving your plants. Light is food to a plant.

Another item - rock wool. I used it for my grow in 2017 and I destroyed a few sets of seeds when I started growing again in 2021. I no longer used rock wool. I've switched to Rapid Rooters and have had 100% success in germination.

Just my tuppence.