Plant Alchemy With KNF: Korean Natural Farming And Jadam

[Azimuth]

I'm a little confused, Azi. If you are using sip's, why are you top dressing? My Bananas have just flipped.

Keeping it organic, and my castings are da bomb! Well, they will be next season when I add even more goodies to them.

 

[Azimuth]

I have a cal-mag solution. What do I need, naturally, to add mag to mu nutes?
Thanks.

@Azimuth has the best answers for that. He has potions and voodoo.

I use dolomite in my global mix as my main magnesium input.

Some use epsom salts. I have never had good luck with them but many have.

But Azi will have an idea. Voodoo I say.

Most of my stuff is purposely broader based rather than targeted at any particular input. So my Mag input is found in my Stinging Nettles but they also come with a calcium component in a 5:1ish cal/mag ratio.

Nettle is low in P and K but high in most of the micronutrients which is why I pair it with Comfrey which is high in P and K and  low in most of the micro's. It's like the perfect pairing in the plant world.

Plus, I thought in this organic stuff we were counting on the microbes to figure it all out.

 

[scottreid1966]

Keeping it organic, and my castings are da bomb! Well, they will be next season when I add even more goodies to them.

Thanks! The point to my question was that SIP's get bottom fed, So I suppose that you top-feed when you worm cast or do you add it to your water before you bottom feed?
Thanks, Azi.

 

[Azimuth]

Thanks! The point to my question was that SIP's get bottom fed, So I suppose that you top-feed when you worm cast or do you add it to your water before you bottom feed?
Thanks, Azi.

This round I'm trying some new things. I topdressed with compost and mist that mulch layer twice a day in veg, add a small amount of castings weekly, add JLF/FAA bi-weekly, and will add more compost monthly.

So, yes, every other week I do water in a bit with my extracts. Well short of what would be a full watering, just enough to spread the love around evenly on the surface and have it soak in a bit.

Today I agave them FAA, molasses, and Great White microbes since I forgot at pot up.

 

[Azimuth]

Another week has passed and the plants still look as good as they did last week.  Much less bug pressure than normal, though that could be as much related to my consistent spraying as it is the new soil mix.

Interestingly, the one plant that wasn't up-potted to the new mix is older and is the one that seems to have the most bug pressure. And even that one has only very small mites and few of them. So, the spraying regiment continues.

Another 10 days or so and I'll flip the two comparison plants, hoping to keep them mostly bug free until then.

 

[Gee64]

Another week has passed and the plants still look as good as they did last week.  Much less bug pressure than normal, though that could be as much related to my consistent spraying as it is the new soil mix.

Interestingly, the one plant that wasn't up-potted to the new mix is older and is the one that seems to have the most bug pressure. And even that one has only very small mites and few of them. So, the spraying regiment continues.

Another 10 days or so and I'll flip the two comparison plants, hoping to keep them mostly bug free until then.

Have you compared brix levels on uppotted vs not uppotted?

 

[Azimuth]

Have you compared brix levels on uppotted vs not uppotted?

Not yet.

 

[Gee64]

Not yet.

How about now? ok now then? okay okay... now? Are we there yet? I gotta pee....

 

[Azimuth]

Ok, OK. Sheesh. You're worse than a 4 year old.

I don't know if there's there's way to screw up the readings but they seem ridiculously low to me given how healthy the twins look. But, now that I have an easy way to get my drops of sap, I can check the levels more frequently.

I used @Graytail 's How to Take Brix Measurements instructions except I splurged more than he did since I'm using dimes instead of metal slugs.

The problem child showed a 1 (and maybe even 1/2), the coco twin showed a 2, and the compost twin a 6. Like I said, I don't really believe those numbers given how low they are and how healthy the plants look.

I used the stem and leaves from each example and rolled everything up together in a little wad, stuck it between the dimes and squeezed with a small pair of vice grips. Super easy.

Next time I'll eliminate the stem and see if maybe that's tainting the reading.

 

[Gee64]

Ok, OK. Sheesh. You're worse than a 4 year old.

I don't know if there's there's way to screw up the readings but they seem ridiculously low to me given how healthy the twins look. But, now that I have an easy way to get my drops of sap, I can check the levels more frequently.

I used @Graytail 's How to Take Brix Measurements instructions except I splurged more than he did since I'm using dimes instead of metal slugs.

The problem child showed a 1 (and maybe even 1/2), the coco twin showed a 2, and the compost twin a 6. Like I said, I don't really believe those numbers given how low they are and how healthy the plants look.

I used the stem and leaves from each example and rolled everything up together in a little wad, stuck it between the dimes and squeezed with a small pair of vice grips. Super easy.

Next time I'll eliminate the stem and see if maybe that's tainting the reading.

Was the line sharp or fuzzy?

 

[Graytail]

Nope. Sumpin' ain' right.

You should get at LEAST a 6-8.

Try rerolling for another squeeze, maybe.

 

[Azimuth]

It seemed pretty clear which I know is not what we want given it indicates lower than ideal levels of calcium. But, I had to kind of contort my body to get the meter under the light and I didn't pay that much attention so I'd say you get what you get from a rookie.

I'll do better next time.

 

[Azimuth]

Nope. Sumpin' ain' right.

You should get at LEAST a 6-8.

Try rerolling for another squeeze, maybe.

Ok, thanks. Are there any factors that might come into play? Like maybe petiole included or not, type of material used for the press, etc. Maybe the meter needs calibrating somehow?

I'm glad to hear your assessment as these are among the best looking plants I've grown and, if my best is a 6, I can only imagine what some of my earlier rounds were.

 

[Graytail]

Icemud did a series of measurements for the petiole alone, and they usually came in dramatically lower, like 6 points or more lower. I standardized on a 1/2 inch of petiole on a leaf 3-4 inches long, roughly.

I found that coins bend from the necessary pressure, so I'm surprised that dimes work. But if you're getting juice you're getting juice - shouldn't matter.

Ah. Did you calibrate the meter? You need a drop of clean water, preferably R/O or distilled, measure a drop and fiddle with the adjustment til it reads zero, etc. Could be that.

 

[Azimuth]

Icemud did a series of measurements for the petiole alone, and they usually came in dramatically lower, like 6 points or more lower. I standardized on a 1/2 of petiole on a leaf 3-4 inches long, roughly.

I found that coins bend from the necessary pressure, so I'm surprised that dimes work. But if you're getting juice you're getting juice - shouldn't matter.

Ah. Did you calibrate the meter? You need a drop of clean water, preferably R/O or distilled, measure a drop and fiddle with the adjustment til it reads zero, etc. Could be that.

Ah, OK. Don't think I ever did calibrate it. Got it a while ago, had problems getting juice and stuck it back on the shelf.

I'll check the instructions but I assume there's some adjustment screw somewhere? My meter looks like the one in your thread.

Edit: Never mind. I just pulled it out to look at it and there's a screw under a little black rubber nub. I definitely did not calibrate it since I'll need a very small screw driver and I would have remembered looking for that.

I'll see if I can find some distilled water and see what I see.

 

[Azimuth]

Icemud did a series of measurements for the petiole alone, and they usually came in dramatically lower, like 6 points or more lower. I standardized on a 1/2 inch of petiole on a leaf 3-4 inches long, roughly.

If the petiole drops the true reading that much, why use any of it at all?

 

[Graytail]

Yeah, that's why it isn't great science. It's a guide. You can track the health of your own plants from week to week, etc. You can see if a feed did what you wanted it to do. But the numbers aren't very absolute. The numbers Gee gets are out of range from anything any of the Brixers got, so ...

Mine were in the range I listed. The only time I broke 20 was when I had a whitefly infestation and they were sucking juice and leaving their sugary poop. Made for great brix readings!

If your plants look great, I'd expect to see numbers around 12-14. But sometimes compost and lots of potassium will grow a great looking plant with low brix. The minerals really need to be in range. Icemud was turning out some pretty low numbers.

 

[Gee64]

Yeah, that's why it isn't great science. It's a guide. You can track the health of your own plants from week to week, etc. You can see if a feed did what you wanted it to do. But the numbers aren't very absolute. The numbers Gee gets are out of range from anything any of the Brixers got, so ...

Mine were in the range I listed. The only time I broke 20 was when I had a whitefly infestation and they were sucking juice and leaving their sugary poop. Made for great brix readings!

If your plants look great, I'd expect to see numbers around 12-14. But sometimes compost and lots of potassium will grow a great looking plant with low brix. The minerals really need to be in range. Icemud was turning out some pretty low numbers.

I had a really hard time getting above 21. I got a 22 a long time ago and average 16-18 because its pretty easy to hold. Once you cross the line to 13 you have become part of the carbon cycle and are sequestering excess carbon as sugar.

It goes up to 16-18 pretty quick with good calcium management and by feeding the myco.

The limiting factor organically speaking is phosphorus and above 18 you have to tend to them every day scratching in small amounts of top dressing to squeeze a couple extra brix.

This year I tried something completely different and my numbers shot up alot. Its a phos mix I mentally stumbled onto when Azi was explaining potions to me.

He was telling me about his feeder plants that supply the nutes for a flower potion and I thought holy cow if you compost that instead, the phosphorus is locked still but almost available, exactly how you want it.

Then I planted the seedlings straight into 10 gallon pots with the compost added to Rev's super soil mix more or less.

I say more or less because I make my own EWC to power it but it contains a wide variety of food scraps. Otherwise, Its The Rev's mix. I tried alot of soil mixes and customs but dangit, his just works so I use it.

So now they start in a flower mix and get their phosphorus game on from day 1.

The problem is the plants are pretty big for 10 gallon pots so I don't know if I can maintain it without a ton of effort.

Next year I will use bigger pots.

I didn't make enough to try indoors this winter

I do the whole leaf with roughly a half inch of leaf stalk. Just enough to hold with the tips of your fingers. I usually use the upper mid level leaves that are fully developed and healthy.

Thats the catch 22. If you check your brix too often you lower your brix by inhibiting photosynthesis.

Outdoors isn't as bad as the plants have way more leaves, but once I'm pruned for flower every leaf is needed.

 

[Azimuth]

Mine were in the range I listed. The only time I broke 20 was when I had a whitefly infestation and they were sucking juice and leaving their sugary poop. Made for great brix readings!

When I originally heard of Brix my thought was "yeah, they spray the leaves with sugary liquid and then get a reading which says the leaves have a high sugar content. Shocker. Not."

I'll see if I have some distilled water laying around so I can calibrate.

 

[Azimuth]

Topped the new Blueberry CBD seedling at 21 days to get it ready for quadlining and took a reading. 8 Brix, although there wasn't a lot of sap from the top leaves so it didn't completely cover the plate. Not sure if that matters though.