Plants started flowering in 6/2?

[Sativa1970]

I have been growing Jack Herer and Lambs bread in perpetual grow for a few years now. Since I have a consistent base line for the plants I started experimenting with them. The current clones are being grown under 6 on and 2 off light schedule. I've done it in the past an felt it worked well but didn't really have a side by side comparison. I found out it seemed faster, but my notes they actually grew 30% slower with 6/2 . That was the only difference I could find. Until now.

I checked on them today and they are in flower. They are still on 6/2 light schedule and only 21 and 23 inches tall! The only thing changed on this grow was the 6/2 rather than 18/6. I didn't think it was possible for plants to make flowering hormones with only 2 hours of dark. Anyone have any insight on this? I guess they know today is 420.

 

[Phytoplankton]

The plants actually look very nice. You've really wacked out their light schedule. In looking at the pictures they really are not in flower, they are just giving you an indication that they're female. I don't see any buds forming, just the odd calyx at the nodes. After 5-6 weeks of age they often show their sex at the nodes. Pretty common. I see plenty of articles, both pro and con for 6/2 lighting. Lots of claims made about potentially better yields, but not much actual empirical evidence, mostly anecdotal, and there is always the potential for experimentor bias (which you basically validated by thinking you got better growth, but finding out by looking at your notes, that it was not the case).

 

[Sativa1970]

It was definitely a placebo effect from expectations. Checked photos and notes several times because I figured I must have made a mistake.

Yes, there are no actual flowers just preflower pistols sex indicators. Both of these hussies are always quick to show there lady bits after the nights get long but never before the flip. Thought it was a strange it happened for the first time with these plants on this light schedule. I'm going to let them go to 3 foot before changing lights. Guess I will see what happens.

 

[cbdhemp808]

@Sativa1970 From what I know about lighting and photo plants, I can infer there's probably no benefit to 6/2 light schedule. I'm an outdoor greenhouse grower, and grow my plants as naturally as possible, in soil. I rely on the sun to grow the plants, and use "night interruption" lighting to control flowering, using 13w daylight spectrum LED bulbs. I flash the plants on a timer, 3 times in the night, midnight, 2am, and 4am, with a few minutes of light each time. So, I think it's good to give the plants something close to a normal day length. But, one could extend that some. 18 hrs seems excessive to me, but then again, I'm not out to produce monster buds.

 

[Sativa1970]

@Sativa1970 From what I know about lighting and photo plants, I can infer there's probably no benefit to 6/2 light schedule. I'm an outdoor greenhouse grower, and grow my plants as naturally as possible, in soil. I rely on the sun to grow the plants, and use "night interruption" lighting to control flowering, using 13w daylight spectrum LED bulbs. I flash the plants on a timer, 3 times in the night, midnight, 2am, and 4am, with a few minutes of light each time. So, I think it's good to give the plants something close to a normal day length. But, one could extend that some. 18 hrs seems excessive to me, but then again, I'm not out to produce monster buds.

Thanks all for your input. So 3 bursts of a few minutes of light is enough to prevent flowering? Good to know.
I wasn't thinking 6/2 would unlock some magic potential. I thought it would improve the grow time some and wanted to quantify how much. I had only done 6/2 once before in the past but working around the light schedule was a nuisance.

I posted this because I was trying to figure out any other reason why they were showing sex so "early". These plants never show sex before 30 inches or 12/12 forced. I looked at my notes again last night. It took more time to grow to the same size but the sex did showed in the same number of days as previous grows. I guess that is why they are commonly perceived as growing faster under 6/2. They indicate maturity at a smaller size.

Most of the supporters of 6/2 claim the advantage is more cycles per day makes the plant grow/age quicker. Now I see how this can be unknowingly misinterpreted. Researching claims in horticulture turned out to be psychology.

 

[SmokingWings]

The current clones are being grown under 6 on and 2 off light schedule.

I checked on them today and they are in flower.

As Phytoplankton mentions they are not in flower. They have matured enough that they are in what many call a "pre-flower" stage. The plant grows one, sometimes two, incomplete female flowers with stigma or pistils at each node and that is it. There is no flower bud as we know them. Within weeks the pre-flower disappears.

I take clones from clones from clones and after each cutting gets over the shock of being forced to grow its own roots the pre-flowers show up. Sometimes I get a reaction from a larger plant where it does not have the usual distance between each node and it starts to look like a flower but it never actually forms a bud.

So far, once the clone starts showing these pre-flowers there is no way to stop it. I can increase the to 18/6 or 20/4 and the pre-flowers continue to show up.

Don't let pre-flowers showing up ruin the experiments.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Thanks all for your input. So 3 bursts of a few minutes of light is enough to prevent flowering? Good to know.

Technically, only one burst in the middle of the night, and very short. I just do 3 for a few minutes, for good measure. Any part of the plant that doesn't get enough light – like down toward the bottom – may go into flower. So, I use several bulbs so the plants are getting light from different angles. Still, I will see some short bottom branches start flowering, but it's no big deal... the rest of the plant stays in veg.

I wrote earlier this year:

What happens is that the phytochrome hormone responsible for initiating flowering gets "reset". This hormone is called Phytochrome Red (Pr). Pr levels are controlled by another hormone, Phytochrome Far Red (Pfr). Normally during darkness, Pfr is converted to Pr. As Pr builds up over some days, flowering will initiate. When the plants get a blast of "far red" light, Pr is immediately converted back to Pfr, like a toggle switch. All you need is a low-wattage, full spectrum LED that includes this "far red" light, which is between 760 and 800 nm wavelength. Unless the whole plant is able to get this blast of light, parts of the plant will go into flower! This often happens on my plants as the very lowest branches don't get enough of the blast... but it's not a problem, as those branches don't produce decent buds anyway.

 

[Sativa1970]

As Phytoplankton mentions they are not in flower. They have matured enough that they are in what many call a "pre-flower" stage. The plant grows one, sometimes two, incomplete female flowers with stigma or pistils at each node and that is it. There is no flower bud as we know them. Within weeks the pre-flower disappears.

I take clones from clones from clones and after each cutting gets over the shock of being forced to grow its own roots the pre-flowers show up. Sometimes I get a reaction from a larger plant where it does not have the usual distance between each node and it starts to look like a flower but it never actually forms a bud.

So far, once the clone starts showing these pre-flowers there is no way to stop it. I can increase the to 18/6 or 20/4 and the pre-flowers continue to show up.

Don't let pre-flowers showing up ruin the experiments.

Yes, just worded it wrong, blame 420. Just pre-flowers still, not actual flower. I was surprised to see it and trying to eliminate any other source I was missing besides the light schedule. Jack Herer is a 5th gen clone and Lambs bread is well past a dozen generations. I thought this was a first for them. Then I realized they were older than they looked so I was on the wrong page of my notes. Then pre-flowing made sense. They were the size of five week old clones but they were actually 8 weeks old.

I have killed plenty of plants in the name of science over the last 40 years. A few preflowers won't detour me from experimenting on them. Bwahaha!

 

[TorturedSoul]

Ah, cannabis plants generally produce a small number of flowers once they've developed enough to be sexually mature (or whatever the correct term is for plants). If they're not quickly placed under something resembling a flowering phase light schedule (or already in one), then that means it happens during the growth phase. A lot of people never notice. And, of those who do, most call them "preflowers."

But they're just flowers. Stick a male in there that is doing the same thing... and you'll eventually find some seeds. No big deal. Even if/when that happens, the plant will "keep calm and carry on."

BtW, if your mother plant is several years old, you might find that both it and its clones start producing flowers at a greater frequency. This is also no big deal (and is not always the case).

 

[Sativa1970]

if your mother plant is several years old, you might find that both it and its clones start producing flowers at a greater frequency.

I don't know what you mean by greater "frequency".

I have only veged a Jack Herer clone to 8 weeks once before and that time it also pre-flowered. The Lambs bread almost always preflowers in veg. By the time it has a spot in the flower room it's 9 to 10 weeks veg.

I don't keep mothers. I used a 3 week staged start perpetual grow. Worked out perfect with three 9-10 week flowering sativas. When my flowering plant is done, I take clone cuttings from the end of veg plant. The fully veged plant moves to the flower room. The finished flowering plant moves to the drying cabinet. Plant in the cabinet gets processed into curing jars. This 50/50 Jack threw my timing off. Down to just two plants in veg now so I can spring clean and organize the rooms again.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I meant that a gardener might begin to see more flowers, more often if the... the plant, or the mother plant, is older.

Also, if you're talking about the real Sensi Seeds Jack Herer strain, or one that was created from it, I think there might have been some slight tendency towards autoflowering in the genetics of one of its parental stains. But I couldn't swear to it; it has been a long time since I read about it.

 

[Sativa1970]

I meant that a gardener might begin to see more flowers, more often if the... the plant, or the mother plant, is older.

Also, if you're talking about the real Sensi Seeds Jack Herer strain, or one that was created from it, I think there might have been some slight tendency towards autoflowering in the genetics of one of its parental stains. But I couldn't swear to it; it has been a long time since I read about it.

Longer veg often leads to bigger flowers and more of them. I agree more mature, healthy, nodes make for a big beautiful garden. Just have to be mindful of the veg size with indoor sativas.

Supposedly these are Jack Herer sensi seeds. Ordered them years ago from a distributor. Forgot the name, not positive but I think they were in Spain,,,, maybe? All I remember is they were the only place with "authentic" sensi seeds, in stock, shipping to the US at that time for whatever reason. Claimed 60/40 sativa dom but they grow more like an indica.

The strain has a portion of northern lights. Northern lights is a ruderalis hybid. So there is some auto flower in the gene pool.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I meant that a gardener might begin to see more flowers, more often if the... the plant, or the mother plant, is older.

Longer veg often leads to bigger flowers and more of them. I agree more mature, healthy, nodes make for a big beautiful garden. Just have to be mindful of the veg size with indoor sativas.

Er... More flowers appearing during the growth phase with older plants. E.g., seven-year old mother plant.

Supposedly these are Jack Herer sensi seeds. Ordered them years ago from a distributor.

If the package looked like this, the seeds were probably authentic:

Claimed 60/40 sativa dom but they grow more like an indica.

According to the breeder, it's a 50:50 hybrid. Four main phenotypes, more or less. Two are indica-dominant, two sativa-dominant.

 

[Sativa1970]

Er... More flowers appearing during the growth phase with older plants. E.g., seven-year old mother plant.



If the package looked like this, the seeds were probably authentic:

According to the breeder, it's a 50:50 hybrid. Four main phenotypes, more or less. Two are indica-dominant, two sativa-dominant.

I have only kept a mother one time, Mowi wowi, and only for around 18 months before I moved her to flower. Every node "pre-flowered" at around 9 weeks. As the plant grew new nodes they matured and grew hairs to. I didn't notice any flowering difference between her and her clones from before or after. Other than a few more more nodes from constant pruning. If I forced that plant into flower at 5 weeks with 12/12 it would be slow and sparse compared to a mature plant.

The seeds came in a mylar ziplock. Had the sensi seeds logos on the front and a paragraph bought Jack on the back. I ripped the bag trying to get the ziplock to open so threw it away. Inside was a small petri dish simply labeled Jack Herer. Still have that in my seed box.

I never fully trust seed banks genetics. How many seed banks are selling "authentic Blue Dream"? Acapulco gold was the McDonalds of weed growing up. Not great, but OK, and conveniently everywhere. I have tried a few bank versions of there "authentic seeds". Not bad, but not a big mac. I don't have any comparison for Jack. But it dose work medically, so that's all that really matters.

 

[TorturedSoul]

How many seed banks are selling "authentic Blue Dream"?

Some folks would say, "NONE of them - unless they're shipping clones."