Possible light idea to replace lollipop. Input?

[AkThunderFunk]

My current grow consists of 8 plants. 2 rows of 4. Flowering under a 1000 watt hps light. It's only about 2 weeks into flower, so still stretching, but they're about 18" to 2' tall. The canopy is getting pretty thick, so I was just about to do some lollipopin to revert the "wasted" lower energy to the top. But, I'm wondering, instead of lollipopin, what would happen if I put some cfl's under the canopy? I was thinking 1 cfl in between each plant (so 4 total) more if it appears to actually be beneficial. Mount them to where the bottom of the cfl is about the same height as top of smart pot. Now for my question. Do you think this would be beneficial, would it bulk up the lower, normally airy, buds at all? And since its just cfls, nothing intense, it would hurt or confuse the plants would it?

 

[Cultivator]

the cfls will help but u still wont get huge buds on sides if canopy isnt even. the taller buds will always pack the most weight on even if they just a couple inches higher? defoliation is a good option to allow the light through without the extra cost. around day 21 of flower start removing fan leaves. it works to let light through and can produce higher yields.

 

[AkThunderFunk]

Ya, I hear ya. I didn't figure it would make the lower buds monsters, but maybe it would make them a little denser? Just not so airy. Defoliation was another option I considered. Maybe both? Lighten up the canopy by removing a few of the fan leaves, and place some cfl's below the canopy? Couple single t5's might be better? Ill post some pics of the room as soon as I figure out how to post pictures on here. Might help if people could see what I'm working with.

 

[AkThunderFunk]

Sorry about the lines. They always show up when I take a picture under hps lights

 

[Hosebomber]

Reducing the fan leaves has an inverse effect on the growth and maturation of buds. Flowers do not store any nutrients or produce any energy for the plant to grow and continue to grow bigger flowers. There are several studied both scientific and layman that show better results with more leaves.

 

[Cultivator]

ok hose bomber, have u done it? i do it with very successful results and journal it... this harvest im expecting 58-65oz off 2 600w hps. if you think thats a poor result then id say it doesnt work. some of the best growers on this forum use high defoliation methods, show journals in how they do it and get great results, to state it doesnt waork as fact is ignorant. yes there are studies to suggest it doesnt work but there are studies to show it does. frankly i believe what i witness myself and as an experienced grower that has 10+ years of growing in all substrates and many diff techniques, i am qualified enough to say it does work when applied correctly with the correct nutrient regime.

Read this thread then ask the succesful growers their thoughts on the studies.

Trimming before flowering?

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

this harvest im expecting 58-65oz off 2 600w hps.

If thats related to current grow journal linked in your sig, so thats 5 plants in oxypots and 16 plant wilma... so 21 plants.


So we're just call that 3oz per plant average... its not a great deal to be honest but better than most people !

I know another fellow who use's 16 pot wilma system on average he gets 2 & 1/2oz per plant dry weight & thats untrained plant for fact...

All strain dependant !

 

[Cultivator]

no its 10 plants under 2 600w hps

 

[Cultivator]

If thats related to current grow journal linked in your sig, so thats 5 plants in oxypots and 16 plant wilma... so 21 plants.


So we're just call that 3oz per plant average... its not a great deal to be honest but better than most people !

I know another fellow who use's 16 pot wilma system on average he gets 2 & 1/2oz per plant dry weight & thats untrained plant for fact...

All strain dependant !

Ive been thinking about ur reply since i responded earlier and i just want to get a couple things off my chest.

With respect, u obviously havent read my journal. I have 10 oxypots, 21 litre with 14 days veg under 2 600w hps. and i would also say anything over 30 oz is repectable but considering i am on track to double that, something im doing is obviously working. Im not the top scientist on plant horticulture but i have many, many grows behind me and experience over books every day, that is so long as u learn from mistakes and progress with grows. Right at this moment i have more plants growing than alot of members combined on this forum, around 200 to be exact and these aarent hempys. I dont say this to brag or state i have more than anyone else. I say this to make u aware that im no noob to growing and im well versed in many techniques. i was incarcerated some time back for 9 years for one of the most sophisticated grow set ups in the country at that time, thats not to brag either, infact more fool me for getting caught. Now they caught me with thousands of plants, valued at millions hence the harsh sentence. they say for everyone u get caught with, u get away with many more. I no longer grow at that level for many reasons. i worked and grew in holland just over 10 years ago also in large indusatrial set ups. So thats a little background information.

Ive actually only been growing hydro for a little over a year but my results speak for themselves. the yields of my ten oxypots are expected to each yield between 5 and 6.5 oz. Not significant in itself, u could yield far more per individual plant but not 5 per 600w. I challenge anyone to beat that. I dont use co2, i use quality nutes applied correctly with my enviroment set precisely in a 1.2x2.4x2meters area (4x8'). infact i was quite lazy with this grow, had i prepared supports i believe i'd of yielded on average 7.5 oz per plant.

As for 5 oxypots and 16 pot wilma system. Well yes 3 oz per plant is easily achievable, but i'd say the average grower would struggle to get that. Running 1 600w light over a 16 wilma isnt enough and so that would mean putting 5 oxypots in wouldnt be viable for maximum yield. Would i do it, yes. I just try different things in these journals to show people diff ways to grow. I have my set ups that i use that are very successful. But for the purpose of this forum i chose a venue that i had easy acces to where i could show people quite simple how to grow in hydro and coco. I show other grows i have from time to time but the focus of my journal is to educate new growers.

Remember it doesnt matter how many plants u are growing that matters. if i put 40 plants under 2 600w hps id prob end up with alot less bud than if i put half that in. so if 3 oz is easy yield, i say try and get 3oz per plant under 2 600w hps with 20+ plants. Impossible, probably not but highly difficult.

It is strain dependant for a small part, for example some strains are higher yielders naturally and others cant handle alot of shit. but if we just talk on average defoliation does work to increase yields when done correctly at the right time using the right nutrients and correct environment. This isnt a beginners technique, its an advanced technique and should be used once someone understands how to grow a strain correctly letting it take its natural course, otherwise u have no bench mark to compare.

But each to there own. Please dont tell me it doesnt work, i do it and see benefits and so do other very qualified growers on this site. i dont attack how others grow, i may say how id do it differently when im asked for an opinion but im open minded to how others grow. im still improving my techniques for this very reason.

And if u try defoliation and it doesnt work, ask urself was it the plants fault or the growers? its 99% of the time the latter.

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

With respect, u obviously havent read my journal. I have 10 oxypots, 21 litre with 14 days veg under 2 600w hps.

On the very first page of your journal linked in your sig also here - DWC - Drip Irrigation Scrog 2400W you stated this -

systems will be 5 oxypots, 21litres. 16pot wilma system, medium is clay pebbles

This is where i gained my intial information from ! & yes i do visit your journal from time to time & that the 10 oxypots are in the latter part of your journal which i had not read recently also of note that thier is a 24 pot IWS flood & drain system in that current journal & all linked here - DWC - Drip Irrigation Scrog 2400W

So ye i'm doing some home work...

Right at this moment i have more plants growing than alot of members combined on this forum, around 200 to be exact and these aarent hempys. I dont say this to brag or state i have more than anyone else.

Seems to me thats a bit Counterintuitive or even contradictory.

I say this to make u aware that im no noob to growing and im well versed in many techniques.

Yes i can see from your 2nd journal & 1st

i was incarcerated some time back for 9 years for one of the most sophisticated grow set ups in the country at that time, thats not to brag either,

Yes i'm aware of that from this - DWC - Drip Irrigation Scrog 2400W

i worked and grew in holland just over 10 years ago also in large indusatrial set ups. So thats a little background information.

This is the bit i don't get ?

You are 31 years of age & information to support that can be found here - DWC - Drip Irrigation Scrog 2400W

thanks vic. i getting old hahahard to believe i was 18 on the millenium now, was soooooo long ago

The fact you done 9 years jail and you say this

i worked and grew in holland just over 10 years ago.

Would just about put you in the slammer at the time & that the crime you was sentenced for was commited in your late teens maybe early twentys & that you spent the best part of your twentys in a cell !

Ive actually only been growing hydro for a little over a year but my results speak for themselves.

Now aged 31 & back to the old ways of gaining a few pennies... yes ya get favourable results

The growing in holland seems questionable tho & your accent tells a different story... why grow in holland they have plenty of legal grows to support the cafes etc

The fact you are Uk citizen suggest other !

But for the purpose of this forum i chose a venue that i had easy acces to where i could show people quite simple how to grow in hydro and coco. I show other grows i have from time to time but the focus of my journal is to educate new growers.

Ye its really cool that you help new growers its what its all about but could be a little bit more imformative tho

It is strain dependant for a small part, for example some strains are higher yielders naturally and others cant handle alot of shit. but if we just talk on average defoliation does work to increase yields when done correctly at the right time using the right nutrients and correct environment. This isnt a beginners technique, its an advanced technique and should be used once someone understands how to grow a strain correctly letting it take its natural course, otherwise u have no bench mark to compare.

But each to there own. Please dont tell me it doesnt work, i do it and see benefits and so do other very qualified growers on this site. i dont attack how others grow, i may say how id do it differently when im asked for an opinion but im open minded to how others grow. im still improving my techniques for this very reason.

And if u try defoliation and it doesnt work, ask urself was it the plants fault or the growers? its 99% of the time the latter.

Thats a very powerful statement & counter productive to what you are trying to say about defolairation !!!


May as well read 99% of growers trying defolairation are going to fail... what does that say about the method ya ol fruit cake

 

[Cultivator]

ive been growing cannabis since i was younger. im now 31. i worked in holland in 2001-2002 in a place called Abcoude. i went to prison in february 2003 for 9 years, i served just under 6 years. I was 21 went i went to prison and 26 when i was released. And i was still running grows from behind bars. ive done this for as long as i can remember. Growing was illegal in holland and still is unless u can get a licence to do so, which contrary to popular belief is very difficult to obtain. Theres no such thing as a legal grow for a coffee shop, its actually illegal for coffe shop owners to buy cannabis to sell in there shops. But ofcourse there are growers that supply them as the cops dont waste their resources busting them. Yes i live in UK but how can that mean i never worked in holland? its a 45min flight away. I have many friends there. But i never learned to grow in holland, i just improved on what i knew. But i didnt go to prison for growing there. I learnt to grow on an industrial scale there and transferred that to the uk. I was young when i done it but just because i was 19 years old doesnt mean i was incapable of growing. Whether u believe i worked there or not is irrelevant. if u think im full of shit thats fine.

yes my title states that i would be doing wilma and oxypot grows but around page 3 or 4 i show my set up which is 10 oxypots. I had to change my plans and didnt change the title. i show atleast 4 other grows im involved with in the journal, the iws 24pot flood and drain being one of them, which i have just defoliated today, day 21 from 12/12, pics to be uploaded now.

How does me saying that 99% of people who have issues with their plants is down to the grower and not the plant mean im saying 99% of growers will fail? I never suggested that only 1% know what they are doing, i merely suggested that when things go wrong its usually the growers fault. If u read what i say carefully, i say defoliation is an advanced technique and u must know how to grow to a reasonable level for it to work to its maximum benefit. no one says u should just rip off leaves at random and u will hit the jackpot. Timing and training are essential, and giving the correct nutes and recovery is important too.

Just to be clear. I have no reason to lie about what i am doing and have done. My grows show i know what im doing so all other info is neither here nor there. I stated that info to give some background on my self which i didnt need to share. If u think i am a liar then u dont need to respond to my points. ur entitled to ur thouhts like everyone else. But i spend a lot of time trying to help new growers on this site and i have helped alot of growers get some great results, so i must know something.

Right at this moment i have more plants growing than alot of members combined on this forum, around 200 to be exact and these aarent hempys. I dont say this to brag or state i have more than anyone else.

Seems to me thats a bit Counterintuitive or even contradictory.

Finally how is that counter intuitive or contradictory? i made a point to show im not just a small closet grower whos starting out. Are u saying that im lying about this too?

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Informative post with nice history & thank you for being honest

I'd admitt i learnt something from that about the laws in holland that was interesting.


As for the rest it all depends how people read the written words & their own understanding of it... that is all.


One day in the future i may have the pleasure of reading an informative & descriptive journal of the defoliation method which i am sure will be master piece of work worthy of the archives of growing MJ...

 

[Bassman59]

Please dont expound upon that which you have no experience in. It tends to make a person look or seem ignorant quite honestly. Definition of ignorance: Ignorance is a state of being uninformed (lack of knowledge).

Consequences of Ignorance: Individuals with superficial knowledge of a topic or subject may be worse off than people who know absolutely nothing. As Charles Darwin observed, "ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
Ignorance can stifle learning, in that a person who falsely believes he or she is knowledgeable will not seek out clarification of his or her beliefs, but rather rely on his or her ignorant position. He or she may also reject valid but contrary information, neither realizing its importance nor understanding it. This concept is elucidated in Justin Kruger's and David Dunning's work, "Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments," otherwise known as the Dunning–Kruger effect.

I use a high defoliation technique. I'm dialing it in still and just harvested 28oz dry from 4 plants, grown to approximately 34-36" tall (actually too tall), with the highest yielder being over 10oz again.

I am relatively new at it with just 3 grows using this method under my feet. However, I began learning it from another grower whom has used this technique with 30 years experience and he constantly yields over 12oz per plant, from 6 plant grows in a 5x8 chamber with plants grown to 28-30" tall and 28" wide. His gpw is 1.2.

There is tons of evidence out there that the method works if you choose to look for it.

 

[AkThunderFunk]

this is far from a scientific test. but i defoliated the 4 plants on the left of my room. just removed any big ones that were directly blocking a lower bud site. and it didnt seem to adversly effect the plants, quite the opposite actually. the tops on all the plants are similar in size, but the lower buds on the side that i defoliated seem to be fattening up faster than the other side. far from bein a scientific test, but good enough for me. a little defoliation seems to work good for my strain, and i will be defoliating the second half of my room in the morning.