Trimming before flowering?

[tomatofarmer]

Welcome, i am going to switch to 12/12 tomorrow or the next day and start the beginning of flowering. I've done alot of research on the trimming of plants. One method removes all the fan leaves and leaves just the cola sights and leaves, i am wondering if i should do this right before flowering so all new growth initially with be focused on the bud sights? (also what should i switch my lights to, i have a 90 watt led a 90 hid and a 250 watt inferred lights?)

 

[JJ Bones]

Do not remove any fan leaves that are healthy. The leaves are what collects the energy from the light, and also what stores your nutrients. Very important for all stages of growth.

 

[LivenBurn]

flowering happens after pre-flower & that'll be around a week or so after you switch to 12/12...If you start stripping your plant you might shock her & push your finish date farther back-- or worse, herm it..., decrease yield, etc...

if light & air can penetrate your canopy you should be good to go-- big plants need lots of energy, they gather that energy thru their leafs-- less leafage, less energy... to do anything.
That being said-- I strip leaf discriminately to increase light/air penetration through the middle of the plant, BUT ONLY 1 or 2 week prior to switching into 12/12... I do try & leave as much leaf on the plant without sacrificing too much for the added light/air benefit

 

[D.Zero]

LivenBurn is totally correct more you shock your plant the longer they take to finish the flowering cycle

 

[tomatofarmer]

I've read about it shocking it, even though my plants have had substantial growth after i trimmed them up last time.

This is one of the links that i've seen complete defoliation without murdering or stunting the plants seriously
Increasing yield with defoliation indoors - What's it mean? How to do it?

 

[kimmy]

@TF

The consensus is that you should defoliate on days 21 and 45 of the flower cycle.

I was doing this myself, but I recently changed to defoliating on just day 35.

I would NOT defoliate before the flowering period begins as you have suggested.

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

I'm not really into the whole defoliation method & that it is some what controversial !


In the link provide is some what lacking information at best... & fails to really state the LST methods used along with a partial scrog method also making it some what biased for total yield !

 

[tomatofarmer]

I will hold off, kinda sad trimming the leaves off anyways, thanks for the info guys

 

[Cultivator]

defoliation absolutely works, its been shown to be way more effective on indoor plants. the fan leaves for energy isnt an arguement indoors. if u are giving plants a good nutrient programme u dont need fan leaves. stripping just before flower, a day or 2 before prob isnt a good idea but def in veg and once stretch has slowed in flower. the concensus is day 21 flower bur strain and encironment means u could do it sooner or later, a seasoned grower will know when to do it. as an amateur day 21 is good start point. i increase my yields by minimum of a 1/3 by doing this but usually more, again strain dependant. in soil it takes plants a little longer to recover from a heavy defoliation than in hydro but its still effective. Ive done side by side comparisons and now i dont leave a single large fan leaf on my plants after each defoliation. i do it in 1 lot rather than bits here and there, thats what works for me. some of the most successful growers on this site go with heavy defoliation method. the important thing is if u are doing this, make sure u nute regime is solid.

 

[tomatofarmer]

Even tho i got a soil grow (with bag seeds) i will shoot for the day 21 in flower. You start counting the days of flowering from when you make the 12/12 switch correct? And i just purchased a a GO box from general organics it comes with 8 different bottles of stuff. Hopefully my ladies will be satisfied with that. It even has a CaMg

 

[Cultivator]

i dont count my flower period from 12/12 but u can defoliate 21days from 12/12. really open up that canopy, u'll thank me for it.

 

[tomatofarmer]

Awesome, thanks guy, when do you count flowering days from?

 

[Cultivator]

first sign of flower, as soon as i see hairs start to develop.

 

[420fied]

Do not remove any fan leaves that are healthy. The leaves are what collects the energy from the light, and also what stores your nutrients. Very important for all stages of growth.

I've trimmed buckets full of leaves through the defoliation process in my SOGs and it's never hurt my bud production.

 

[Cultivator]

I've trimmed buckets full of leaves through the defoliation process in my SOGs and it's never hurt my bud production

Agreed......only benefits imo

 

[Stilletto]

Well I am gunna go against the grain here and disagree with most here. Defoliation CAN NOT increase yeild, ever, at all, it is physicly impossible. Accually I believe it DECREASES the size of the yeild. This subject reminds me of people who claim that drinking thier own urine is healthy... not a drop of real scientific proof yet they will argue till they lose thier voice...I think it is because they would be too embarassed if they were wrong.
Lets talk about defoiliation, how can ANY one suggest that removing part of a plant that evolution has decided is needed for best results will increase the amount of flowers? If having no leaves was better you can be assured that evolution would have removed the leaves.
I accuall wonder in many people even know how a plant works? Here are some basics I found in mere seconds...

Leaves – Leaves are where photosynthesis takes place and light and carbon dioxide are taken in, with oxygen released as a by-product. On the underside of leaves small openings called "stomata" open and close allowing carbon dioxide to enter and oxygen to exit.

So some of you are suggesting that removing these leaves would help in some way?

Stems & Vascular System (Xylem & Phloem) – The stems are the heart of a plant’s vascular system and carry water and nutrients throughout the plant. The xylem carries water and nutrients from the roots to the leaves and the phloem transports food manufactured by the leaves to the stems and roots. The stem also supports the plant and bears leaves, flowers buds, and fruits.

Once again by removing the storage space for the nutes there is NO WAY that this could "increase" yeild. Sounds like removing half your stomach would mean you have twice as much energy?

A surprising thing happens if one of these needs is only partially met: All of these needs are negatively affected in a complex chain reaction. For example: If a plant receives only 10% of its needed nutrients, that doesn’t cause just a 10% negative impact. It creates a 10% negative impact on all of the other 5 needs as well, causing an actual 50% negative impact on the entire plant. (10% x 5 = 50%). Maintaining a proper balance of all factors that affect a plant’s health is your best assurance of gardening success.

The above quote makes more sence than the "magicly gets better yeild" theory.... if you take away part of the system, the rest of the system is deminished.

By day, plants absorb sunlight and produce chlorophyll. They also take in water containing dissolved mineral salts and carbon dioxide. These three elements work together to produce glucose which is stored to be used as fuel. Oxygen is expelled as a by-product of glucose production.

By night, the opposite happens. Plants now take in oxygen and expel carbon dioxide. The intake of oxygen triggers the release of the stored glucose giving the plant the needed energy to grow new leaves and roots.

Again I ask some of you.... How can removing the leaves increase yeild? IMPOSSIBLE>

As a note... I do remove dying ar yellowing leaves, some that touch soil, and low ones from inside areas that recieve very little light, but if it is healthy... why cut it off?

That's my 2 cents...

Jonny

 

[420fied]

Opinions vary and they always will when it comes to defoliation.

I'm not talking complete stripping. I don't remove EVERY fan. I remove the shaders that are covering the bud sites in the middle 2/3's of the plant. There are still plenty of fans on my SOG plants to deliver the nutrients. I've grown and defoliated thousands of plants and I'm speaking from experience. You're copying and pasting.

While it may be strain dependent, It's a FACT that unshaded bud sites end up considerably fatter than shaded ones with my strain. How do I know? Because I've done side by side comparisons numerous times.

IMPOSSIBLE huh? lol...

 

[Cultivator]

All i have to say is u obviously havent tried it. Do u know how many plants i have grown? Thousands, yes thousands. right now i currently have 110 dwc plants, 70 plants on drip irrigation, and 63 in coco. i have done side by side grows and witnessed the differences. I remove every large fan leave from my plants healthy or not. I actually only started this technique a little over a year ago after following 420fieds grows and i wish id done it from day one. i can only speak from my experience but it puts atleast a 1/3 extra yield on my grows, not only that but the bud right across the plant is better quality, i believe because of the better light penetration. I worked in holland in huge grows ten years ago and we used to take of fan leaf strategically to allow better penetration, i know have one major grower following the high defoliation technique. IT WORKS

SOMEONE ONCE SAID A BLIND MAN COULDNT CROSS THE ROAD ALSO

Sometimes u need to actually try diff things and get head out of the books.

Note, there is still leaf on the plants, just no large fan leaf.

 

[oldman60]

I tend to agree with Stilletto. Heavy defoliation has to set the plant back while the new factories develop.

You don't see heavy defoliation in farming to increase yields. You do see them do some early pruning on
some crops to encourage new growth (veg). Pot is no different, it reacts the same as all plant life.
Like 420fied said removing some big fans that are shading parts that you want to develop can be beneficial.
I tuck them out of the way if I can other wise they get cut.

 

[Stilletto]

Great responses guys.... very stimulating.

I have tried defoiliation on a few plants... just enough to show me it did nothing (for me).
I copied and pasted because I am not a scientist... I will let scientists do science and I will copy and paste thier findings.
We can have different opinions cause that is called freedom, we both might think we are right, I do not post to offend but to stimulate the conversation.
So I will ask... can you please copy and paste any statements from any horticultural scientific studies that support your theory? I got my quotes from a Horticultural text book. Please find me some quotes from scientific journals to support your theory. Can't find any... then conduct a scietific study of your own, otherwise I am gunna have to stick to "logic", "reason" and "science" over your argument of " I know it does" or "a freind said so".
I am not trying to insult, just stimulating the conversation.

Jonny