Powdery Mildew & Dry Trimming

[Nicotin]

Hello!

I have an autoflower that will be harvested in 2-5 days and it's had WPM for about a month. Fan leaf picking and spraying with a mix of hydrogen peroxide and water has kept it alive and well, although most of the sugar leaves have some visible WPM on them. No buds look affected. I will be budwashing after harvest with this method.

The thing is that this being my second grow, I really wanted to try dry trimming to see if it positively affects the overall quality of my first grow, which was kind of ruined after the wet trimming/curing I did (taste went completely away, joints went off constantly, harsh, etc..). Wet trimming being the most probable factor as I think it made them dry too quickly, so I was determined to dry trim to test and grow my knowledge before the WPM showed up.

Question is, is it OK to leave sugar leaves affected by WPM after the wash to then dry trim? I'm not sure if the wash if 100% effective in removing/incapacitating the WPM the sugar leaves have. Is it too big of a risk and maybe it's best to just wet trim again?

 

[garybo]

@Nicotin , Sorry about your problem. I as well as others here know what you are going through.
Anyway, I suggest you cut your loss and get rid of those sugar leaves that are effected, and buds as well. Your lungs are not worth the highs you would have gotten.
Take care by brother.

 

[nivek]

peroxide is the one and only thing i have used/ seen that removes any mildew at all.

not a huge amount needed either,, tho i might not suggest the correct mixture, i just cant remember,,one can see the mildew rise to the surface, to be discarded,,

but as for getting all of it,, well, i am not sure if that is even possible,, so many nooks and crannies in them buds

i also would discard the trimmings,, unless it is smothered in trikes,, then it can be used for various purposes, including topicals

darn p.m.,, took me so long to rid my indoor room from it,, i literally had to shut right down and start over,,

dont spray milk, it does not work and leaves huge residue,, i tried absolutely everything i could read about,, but my room is close quarters and i just could not eliminate the stuff

karma sent friend

 

[Nicotin]

@Nicotin , Sorry about your problem. I as well as others here know what you are going through.
Anyway, I suggest you cut your loss and get rid of those sugar leaves that are effected, and buds as well. Your lungs are not worth the highs you would have gotten.
Take care by brother.

peroxide is the one and only thing i have used/ seen that removes any mildew at all.

not a huge amount needed either,, tho i might not suggest the correct mixture, i just cant remember,,one can see the mildew rise to the surface, to be discarded,,

but as for getting all of it,, well, i am not sure if that is even possible,, so many nooks and crannies in them buds

i also would discard the trimmings,, unless it is smothered in trikes,, then it can be used for various purposes, including topicals

darn p.m.,, took me so long to rid my indoor room from it,, i literally had to shut right down and start over,,

dont spray milk, it does not work and leaves huge residue,, i tried absolutely everything i could read about,, but my room is close quarters and i just could not eliminate the stuff

karma sent friend

Thanks for the replies, I guess I will be wet trimming right away, washing the buds and discarding the trim. Dry trimming will sadly have to be saved for a future grow in the coming years.

As for discarding the buds, I will see how it goes with the drying/curing first. Like I said there's no visible buds affected and since I started treating the WPM right after it showed up it never really ramped up to the point of affecting the growth cycle in any noticeable way, just some fan/sugar leaves had to be removed from time to time.

If I see any signs of WPM after drying or curing I will call it GG and dump them.

 

[OGpapa]

Just do yourself justice. Take your time. Get a nice bright light, some clean scissors, and iso. Trim, clean, trim, clean, trim clean.

You do not want to introduce the spores to fresh trim areas. That's why you will continually clean the scissors.


If your going to bud wash.

Do your bud wash. Twice start to finish.

Make sure you place a fan pointed at opposite wall in room for indirect ventilation.

And even tho you wet trimmed. Which you didn't want to, because of them dying faster.

Bud wash will add moisture that wasn't there originally. So maybe all in all, you will get the outcome your wanting.
More moisture longer dry time, better tasting bud.

 

[nivek]

Bud wash will add moisture that wasn't there originally.

give a good swing shake at the end of the soak,, not rinse,, soak,, a shake after and all is good. it really does not add moisture to the buds at all,, drying time after is not at all affected

 

[OGpapa]

give a good swing shake at the end of the soak,, not rinse,, soak,, a shake after and all is good. it really does not add moisture to the buds at all,, drying time after is not at all affected

I appreciate the addition. I have never bud washed, personally. I know a few who swear by it. It's astonishing to see what ends up in buckets.

 

[bluter]

I really wanted to try dry trimming to see if it positively affects the overall quality

wet or dry trim is not a deal breaker either way. it's the cure after jar that is crucial.

Just do yourself justice. Take your time. Get a nice bright light, some clean scissors, and iso. Trim, clean, trim, clean, trim clean.
You do not want to introduce the spores to fresh trim areas. That's why you will continually clean the scissors.

a two stage trim works best for bud wash. remove the large fans first, then wash. it avoids extra work at trim. do the wash, hang, do final trim when you jar after the hang, then cure.

More moisture longer dry time, better tasting bud.

drying time will remain the same, some members here report it being shortened a little even.

 

[Red Runner]

Heya,

I 100% agree with @garybo he is correct. The risk of getting these things in your lungs and medical problem's/cost is not at all worth it.

Again, cut your losses, and dispose of this grow. This is a crappy learning experience at this point. I know it is hard letting go an entire grow, you have to put that out of mind. Do research into what health problems these spores (and other types from growing) can do to the lungs and body. If you are going to risk it, at LEAST look into what you may be dealing with if it happens. Do know, I am only drilling this point because it is such a major risk to your body.


Aside from this grow, if you are going to continue PLEASE do/consider the following...

Before starting another grow, go overboard in cleaning your grow area, room, any any connected area's to the grow room/area. This also applies to washing drapes, clothes, bedding. Do look a bit of research on how to kill/remove these spores, you will be glad you did.

Once you are happy with the cleaning, do some solid research into why this happen and how to address it in the future so it never happens again. On this topic, it sounds like humidity was way too high mid-late flowering. This alone can cause poor trichome development since the plant has ample humidity so it does not crank up on protecting itself from lower humidity. I believe ideal humidity ranges are 40-55%, but reading up on what folks do it can vary a bit. I too am still a new grower, and have found this range in mid to late flower does crank up the trichome production greatly.

Hope this helps,
Red

 

[Nicotin]

wet or dry trim is not a deal breaker either way. it's the cure after jar that is crucial.

I get that but I don't think it was the case on my first grow. I did everything by the book on the curing part but was not able to monitor RH during drying, + I think too much fanning inevitably messed up the buds so that even a good cure couldn't save them. This time I have can mesure and control RH so I hope taste doesn't go away like last time.

Since about 30% of sugar leaves had some PM, I ended up wet trimming this morning, washing and now they're drying in this setup. Buds looked great with no signs of PM what so ever. The extractor fan will be working 24/7, and as of now the mobile fan will work facing the opposite wall for a few hours until the buds don't have water from the wash on the outside. Then it will only work for 15 minutes every 4 hours just to move the air around and remove air pockets. Current RH 45%, once the water is gone from the outside in a couple of hours I will aim for 55%.

Heya,

I 100% agree with @garybo he is correct. The risk of getting these things in your lungs and medical problem's/cost is not at all worth it.

Again, cut your losses, and dispose of this grow. This is a crappy learning experience at this point. I know it is hard letting go an entire grow, you have to put that out of mind. Do research into what health problems these spores (and other types from growing) can do to the lungs and body. If you are going to risk it, at LEAST look into what you may be dealing with if it happens. Do know, I am only drilling this point because it is such a major risk to your body.


Aside from this grow, if you are going to continue PLEASE do/consider the following...

Before starting another grow, go overboard in cleaning your grow area, room, any any connected area's to the grow room/area. This also applies to washing drapes, clothes, bedding. Do look a bit of research on how to kill/remove these spores, you will be glad you did.

Once you are happy with the cleaning, do some solid research into why this happen and how to address it in the future so it never happens again. On this topic, it sounds like humidity was way too high mid-late flowering. This alone can cause poor trichome development since the plant has ample humidity so it does not crank up on protecting itself from lower humidity. I believe ideal humidity ranges are 40-55%, but reading up on what folks do it can vary a bit. I too am still a new grower, and have found this range in mid to late flower does crank up the trichome production greatly.

Hope this helps,
Red

Thanks I appreciate the concern. Like I said if any signs of PM show up after this point it will definetly go into the trash. I smoke once every one or two months so I'm OK with the risk.

Sadly I think this PM problem was self-inflicted because even though it was a balcony grow, I (stupidly) moved the plant inside every day after it got some sun to protect it from other pests and providing cover from unwated neighbour attention. The air on my apartment is very still and enclosed, perfect for PM from what I read. Didn't really think about it until it happened.

Next grow will hopefully be in one or two years on the same spot but never again on the inside (I can only grow in the August-Nov period), I will do anything in my power to sterilize the apartment and balcony until then.

 

[Keffka]

dont spray milk, it does not work and leaves huge residue,, i tried absolutely everything i could read about,, but my room is close quarters and i just could not eliminate the stuff

karma sent friend

I believe milk is meant to be used outdoors with high sunlight. The milk has a protein with an antiseptic effect that is released when the sun hits it and begins breaking it down. If you used it in a grow room I can see why it wouldn’t work.

@InTheShed is pretty knowledgeable when it comes to PM.. his citric acid spray was amazing on my MILs plants and killed everything. I’ll look up the recipe and hopefully he’ll take a look at this post.

 

[InTheShed]

I believe milk is meant to be used outdoors with high sunlight. The milk has a protein with an antiseptic effect that is released when the sun hits it and begins breaking it down. If you used it in a grow room I can see why it wouldn’t work.

@InTheShed is pretty knowledgeable when it comes to PM.. his citric acid spray was amazing on my MILs plants and killed everything. I’ll look up the recipe and hopefully he’ll take a look at this post.

I never had any luck with milk at any dilution but the 1% citric acid spray has always worked for me for PM.

In terms of washing, the lemon juice has citric acid in it, but I've always mixed it in the same bucket with the baking soda as opposed to having them in separate buckets.

These are the citric acid instructions for spraying a living plant with PM:
Scale up as necessary...I mix a gallon at time!:

5g food grade citric acid
500ml distilled water
10 pipette drops dish soap

(For the record, 10 pipette drops of dish soap works out to a little less than 1ml in 1500ml of water, or 0.3ml per 500ml. I have since switched to yucca powder which is around 1/8 tsp/gallon.)

Mix well and spray, and make sure you get the whole plant as PM can hide between the buds and the branch. Also, spray first thing in the morning before the sun is baking the leaves.

You can tell live PM from dead because live PM will wipe off with your finger (wash your hands after!). Dead PM looks similar but won't wipe off.

Just a note, this kills PM but doesn't prevent it so repeat as needed. The only thing that tends to prevent PM are oil sprays which I don't use in flower. In veg I usually just use neem to keep the PM down.

 

[bluter]

Again, cut your losses, and dispose of this grow.

not entirely advisable. it depends on the extent of the damage.

This is a crappy learning experience at this point. I know it is hard letting go an entire grow, you have to put that out of mind. Do research into what health problems these spores (and other types from growing) can do to the lungs and body. If you are going to risk it, at LEAST look into what you may be dealing with if it happens. Do know, I am only drilling this point because it is such a major risk to your body.

a lot of garden produce gets it. it's common in cabbage, tomatoes, raspberries and strawberries. commercial growers deal with it all the time. strawberries and tomatoes are two of the most chemically drenched things in commercial growing.

Before starting another grow, go overboard in cleaning your grow area, room, any any connected area's to the grow room/area. This also applies to washing drapes, clothes, bedding. Do look a bit of research on how to kill/remove these spores, you will be glad you did.

aside from good air circulation, there's not much you can do to avoid pm. as a spore it gets everywhere and will remain dormant, until conditions are correct for it to flourish.

a good cleaning will definitely help. on most indoor grows it is introduced from outside though, a lot like mites, often carried in by the grower themself.

it's close to impossible to defend against the introduction of spores. it is possible within a certain reason to deny those spores the conditions they need to take hold though. that's where to focus.

Once you are happy with the cleaning, do some solid research into why this happen and how to address it in the future so it never happens again. On this topic, it sounds like humidity was way too high mid-late flowering.

pm occurs more in mid to dry. often under otherwise great conditions. you may be confused with bud rot, which is caused by a mold.

I get that but I don't think it was the case on my first grow. I did everything by the book on the curing part but was not able to monitor RH during drying, + I think too much fanning inevitably messed up the buds so that even a good cure couldn't save them.

you want the buds hitting the jars at 62% or a touch higher. length of hang time depends on ambient rh. at 55% ambient you probably have no need of the fan. if your buds dry too fast you've ruined the harvest.

all the good stuff is in the burping and cure process. the only point of the hang time is to avoid excess rh in the jars, promoting possible mold. once you get under that you can burp til it's stable and cure. that's where all the magic is, assuming you start with something decent.

 

[SmokingWings]

Sadly I think this PM problem was self-inflicted because even though it was a balcony grow, I (stupidly) moved the plant inside every day ...

Don't kick yourself over the Powdery Mildew problem. The spores are everywhere moving around with the air currents. They can land on the floor, walls and windows and die or they can land on your plant and if the moisture and surface of the leaf is right they can start to grow. There is not much we can do about this except be ready before it starts to show on the plant.

Personally, I would rather grow inside versus outside when it comes to this mildew. I find it easier to put a preventative on the plants and if an infection starts it is easier to control and beat back on indoor plants. Outdoors we are constantly being faced with the spores in the air landing on the plant. An important point to remember is that it can take 3 to 4 weeks after the mildew starts growing before we actually see those white or gray areas start to show up on the leaves.

The spores spread when the humidity is low breaking off of an infected plant with the wind. The spores grow on the leaves after they land. If we were to think about it, those nice low humidity afternoons with warm temperatures and a nice breeze are when our plants, especially outdoor ones are getting infected. The wet and sometimes rainy days in the late summer and fall will slow down further infection but no matter what, by then it is too late. The rains do not cause the mildew problem, it started weeks before. It is not necessary that the surface of the leaf be wet for the spores to start growing and spreading but it often seems that a moist surface speeds it up. When we think about it, it is almost impossible to win against this fungi.

Indoors we do not have the winds blowing spores in from everywhere. Most of us can control the air movement and limit it to a tent, room or enclosed area. Plus I feel that when we run an air filter we are not only trapping smells but trapping some of these spores before they can land somewhere else on the plant or even on another plant.

From the University of Minnesota Co-operative Extension Service is this link with fascinating info...
https://extension.umn.edu/plant-diseases/powdery-mildew-flower-garden

 

[SmokingWings]

I believe milk is meant to be used outdoors with high sunlight. The milk has a protein with an antiseptic effect that is released when the sun hits it and begins breaking it down.

Studies and tests have been done using milk to prevent or cure Powdery Mildew problems. Even 100 years ago the use of diluted milk to control mildew on plants was believed to be something that would work. Then with the discovery of various chemical fungicides the testing stopped and did not start up again until the late 1990s. Studies using milk to control this mildew are taking place all over the world now.

Everything I come across indicates that they know it works but they are not sure why. Is it the proteins in the milk, the minerals in the milk, a phosphate, or the acid that develops when the milk ferments or something else? Tests have started back up and it seems that the milk & water mix kills off visible mildew but they have yet to pinpoint what is actually working. Though, the acids in the fermented milk are a good possibility just like the acid mix in the formula that @InTheShed has written about.

The biggest point I keep coming across is that anything used for fighting Powdery Mildew works best if we start to apply it before the spores actually infect the plant. If we wait for those patches of white mildew to show up before we start it is too late, our plant is permanently infected until harvest. We can kill what we see but the spores are still in small spaces on the leaf and will come back if conditions are right.

 

[nivek]

if your buds dry too fast you've ruined the harvest.

I agree completely with my friend Mr bluter,, such a waste to waste

Howver,, this comment I might adjust,, just one word,,the last one

The harvest is not exactly ruined,, the weed is still weed and smokeable and will buzz yer brain,, however,,

The CURE will not be as swell,, the weed may be a bit less smooth and tasty

 

[greenjeans]

Depending on your needs for tastes, odour etc.....what about a water cure??? I don't really worry about flavour, taste, etc. - I'm after the buzz but I may get trashed for this opinion. I'm thinking that a water cure is fast and may disslodge any pm that has stuck around.
PS - I also do a bud wash - baking soda/lemon juice - then H2O2 - then water rinse. As well as the swishing of the branches they sit for about 5 minutes in each solution.

 

[Keffka]

Studies and tests have been done using milk to prevent or cure Powdery Mildew problems. Even 100 years ago the use of diluted milk to control mildew on plants was believed to be something that would work. Then with the discovery of various chemical fungicides the testing stopped and did not start up again until the late 1990s. Studies using milk to control this mildew are taking place all over the world now.

Everything I come across indicates that they know it works but they are not sure why. Is it the proteins in the milk, the minerals in the milk, a phosphate, or the acid that develops when the milk ferments or something else? Tests have started back up and it seems that the milk & water mix kills off visible mildew but they have yet to pinpoint what is actually working. Though, the acids in the fermented milk are a good possibility just like the acid mix in the formula that @InTheShed has written about.

The biggest point I keep coming across is that anything used for fighting Powdery Mildew works best if we start to apply it before the spores actually infect the plant. If we wait for those patches of white mildew to show up before we start it is too late, our plant is permanently infected until harvest. We can kill what we see but the spores are still in small spaces on the leaf and will come back if conditions are right.

Not only did chemical fungicides set us back, the prevailing thought that all fungi is bad also did a massive disservice as well. Thankfully we have more powerful tools these days to start correcting a lot of our mistakes, but there’s no telling how much we’ve lost in between then and now. At least we’ve acknowledged this though and have begun to fix it.

 

[SmokingWings]

... the prevailing thought that all fungi is bad also did a massive disservice as well.

Good point. One of the best examples is the issue of "black mold". Not all black or dark colored molds are dangerous but people, from home-owners to companies that get rid of the stuff, jumped on the bandwagon. It is not funny about how many people dumped hundreds or thousands of dollars on getting rid of black mold, doing everything from spraying fungicides to ripping out walls, and then finding out it was a typical harmless dark colored mold caused by a small leak in a basement foundation wall.

For months there were news articles in newspapers, on TV news, or radio news and informative shows telling the average homeowner or renter to slow down and verify what they have before dumping all that money on repairs. But, people were in a panic and only listening or reading what they wanted and disregarded the rest.

Or, the growers who see something fuzzy and white growing on their soil surface and going into a panic because it looks like mold so they toss perfectly good soil. Maybe if they had researched or asked questions first they could have kept their perfectly good soil even though the "white stuff' was just a form of mycorrhizae that started to grow on the surface. They paid good money to buy a soil amendment with this mycorrhizae in it but panic when they see it growing.

 

[Nicotin]

So far so good after 72 hours of drying, no signs of PM and buds are looking/smelling great. RH kept at 55% +-5% at all times by manually using a kettle and decided to not use the interior fan, just the extractor. The only thing is that due to high temps where I live (28°C) buds already feel close to be jared. They've lost half their size, their exterior feels nicely brittle yet moist enough that they rebound back when you press them. I think I will jar them tomorrow or Monday at this pace, when they still are a little moist and rebound, just not as much as today. I don't think a 4-5 day dry period is the best but not much to do with the current high temps and small buds that surely reduce drying time.

I think this will still be a huge improvent v/s last time. Will post results and a grow diary when finished.