Ruderalis?

[Ossi Ossi]

Howdy Folks
strain ?
DAY 24 today/Up Potting today.
600 watt Mars Hydro
Coco/Perlite
Maxi crop Seaweed feed
Calmag
Nitrosol
PH 5.6-5.8 consistently
Temps 26.5c / 51% nights 31.5c / 45% days --- these fluctuate a little due to our wild weather ATM here in Queensland Australia.
i have a 20 ltr Tub of Rainwater with 10 mls maxi crop,10 mls calmag,10 mls Nitrosol PhD to 5.6-5.8,PPM 400-----EC 800 WITH AIRSTONE 24/7.
i have also soaked the coir and perlite with tank water until i got to the smallest ppm of .oo50 which i thought it was acceptable
Feeding twice day 12 hourly.
These guys are 24 days old today, they had a bit of a slow start but moving along now.
However after 24 days of care so far it was only yesterday I realized that they appear to be 3 fingered leaves only.

Can i please have some advice on moving forward from here.
light schedule ??
preferred ppms ??
calmag use ?

As you can see I've been careful how much food I apply so to not burn them so young so some help with levels of each,maxicrop,calmag,nitrosol.
I've attached pics for your perusal.

i hope i have given someone enough information to lead me in the right direction

stay safe all

 

[Pat Puffer]

Your colors are good. If she wants to grow 3 bladed leaves to harvest, rock it!

Your nutrients don't have an affect on leaf blade count. If anything, your plants already since the soil barrier/pot edge, and know how large they can get. This thought is pure B.S., but i find my clones are 3 bladed until they reach the planters. That's when they stretch out and rev up.

Just a thought...

 

[013]

These are too symmetrical to be clones- so they gotta be from seed, I just think they are getting off to a slow start. As they mature you should see 5 blades pop and then move up to 7‘s or 9’s. If they are autos then I’d stay at 18/6, if you bump down to 12/12 which is not needed or required then yields will suffer

I’m not a coco grower but everything I’ve come to learn about coco is summed up here: no plain water ever, feed 1X per day with quarter strength nute mix, when plants get big - go up to 2X per day and in flower 3X per day. coco is inert, it’s DTW so hydro rules apply Ph gets set from 5.8 to 6.2 - you should not let the coco dry out, cal-mag is needed, feed to 10% runoff each time flushes out the old brings in the new, don’t let them sit in runoff

we need to get you hooked up with a real coco person cuz that’s my limit right there

 

[Redcup]

The advice from @013 is good, although i dont use 1/4 strength nutes. The young plants in veg like those i would be using 1200 uS ec or so. Runoff is very important in coco to avoid salt buildup. I have been growing in coco for a few years, not an expert but somewhat knowledgable.

Ossi did not mention if the coco was prepared (rinsed and buffered with Ca). It should have been but its too late now. Be sure to do that before transplant.

Lets look at the nutrients. Proper Mineral nutrition is about the ratio of elements, and the types of elements.

The nitrosol 12-2-13 shown here is designed for outdoor soil use. It has high levels of ammonium and urea, which require microbial action to make available. Ammonium can be taken up in excess by the plant causing N tox, unless its broken down to nitrate by microbes so its generally used sparingly in coco. Also, it will lower your root zone pH rapidly due to the way the roots take it up.
its also low in P, and that might cause problems.

If you are able to get base nutrients designed for coco you will do better. Generally a good coco fert will use calcium nitrate as the N source, as is in your cal mag.

Thats pretty high N calmag too, it must be calcium nitrate + magnesium nitrate. You might be low on calcium because the nutrasol is so low, even with the cal mag added. Generally cannabis needs about the same amount of Ca as N, with additional Ca needed in coco grows. Note the cal mag has 7% N and 7% Ca (its listed in g/L) But the nutrasol has very low Ca:N ratio.

The maxicrop has some npk but most importanly trace minerals so thats good.

The plants look underfed and a bit yellow. If you pick up the ec they should green up, but watch for n tox for the reasons above, and also P deficiency. You may need a P supplement especially in flower. Try 1tsp per gallon of each of the three and see what the ec is. If it needs adjusting, lower the Amount of nutrasol or raise the others.

Tldr; Sorry if this is too wordy. I think you will have a tough time balancing the ratio of N to the PK levels using these nutrients and providing enough Ca. If you can, replace them. If not, consider adding more PK with a bloom booster or with Monopotassium Phosphate MKP, which is the typical ingredient in a PK booster.

 

[Redcup]

Duplicate.

 

[Bill284]

Howdy Folks
strain ?
DAY 24 today/Up Potting today.
600 watt Mars Hydro
Coco/Perlite
Maxi crop Seaweed feed
Calmag
Nitrosol
PH 5.6-5.8 consistently
Temps 26.5c / 51% nights 31.5c / 45% days --- these fluctuate a little due to our wild weather ATM here in Queensland Australia.
i have a 20 ltr Tub of Rainwater with 10 mls maxi crop,10 mls calmag,10 mls Nitrosol PhD to 5.6-5.8,PPM 400-----EC 800 WITH AIRSTONE 24/7.
i have also soaked the coir and perlite with tank water until i got to the smallest ppm of .oo50 which i thought it was acceptable
Feeding twice day 12 hourly.
These guys are 24 days old today, they had a bit of a slow start but moving along now.
However after 24 days of care so far it was only yesterday I realized that they appear to be 3 fingered leaves only.

Can i please have some advice on moving forward from here.
light schedule ??
preferred ppms ??
calmag use ?

As you can see I've been careful how much food I apply so to not burn them so young so some help with levels of each,maxicrop,calmag,nitrosol.
I've attached pics for your perusal.

i hope i have given someone enough information to lead me in the right direction

stay safe all

You have 2 very knowledgeable replies there. Your girls are beautiful but do look a little hungry to me but I can't add anything constructive that hasn't already been said.

 

[Redcup]

@Ossi Ossi i realized as i typed that long winded answer that i answered a similar question with a similar answer. thats what happens when i read fertilzer labels during wake and bake Hope it was helpful.

 

[SoGnotSOG321]

So are you asking if these are autoflower plants? I have some going and one of them switched off 5 blades to singles and three blades as soon as flowering turned full on. Mine are much older than those and in soil where you're in dwc and maybe what the 4th node?

Notice the lower branches have the 5 blades. I'm commenting to show you aren't alone but also to give an idea of how weird these autos are. Yours are tiny by comparison and look normal atm. If they are autoflower run those lights a minimum of 18/6 or you're wasting time and yield drops as 013 mentioned. GG

 

[Ossi Ossi]

The advice from @013 is good, although i dont use 1/4 strength nutes. The young plants in veg like those i would be using 1200 uS ec or so. Runoff is very important in coco to avoid salt buildup. I have been growing in coco for a few years, not an expert but somewhat knowledgable.

Ossi did not mention if the coco was prepared (rinsed and buffered with Ca). It should have been but its too late now. Be sure to do that before transplant.

Lets look at the nutrients. Proper Mineral nutrition is about the ratio of elements, and the types of elements.

The nitrosol 12-2-13 shown here is designed for outdoor soil use. It has high levels of ammonium and urea, which require microbial action to make available. Ammonium can be taken up in excess by the plant causing N tox, unless its broken down to nitrate by microbes so its generally used sparingly in coco. Also, it will lower your root zone pH rapidly due to the way the roots take it up.
its also low in P, and that might cause problems.

If you are able to get base nutrients designed for coco you will do better. Generally a good coco fert will use calcium nitrate as the N source, as is in your cal mag.

Thats pretty high N calmag too, it must be calcium nitrate + magnesium nitrate. You might be low on calcium because the nutrasol is so low, even with the cal mag added. Generally cannabis needs about the same amount of Ca as N, with additional Ca needed in coco grows. Note the cal mag has 7% N and 7% Ca (its listed in g/L) But the nutrasol has very low Ca:N ratio.

The maxicrop has some npk but most importanly trace minerals so thats good.

The plants look underfed and a bit yellow. If you pick up the ec they should green up, but watch for n tox for the reasons above, and also P deficiency. You may need a P supplement especially in flower. Try 1tsp per gallon of each of the three and see what the ec is. If it needs adjusting, lower the Amount of nutrasol or raise the others.

Tldr; Sorry if this is too wordy. I think you will have a tough time balancing the ratio of N to the PK levels using these nutrients and providing enough Ca. If you can, replace them. If not, consider adding more PK with a bloom booster or with Monopotassium Phosphate MKP, which is the typical ingredient in a PK booster.

all coco and perlite has been rinsed in rainwater @ 50 ppms over 2 days,i got the lot down to 58 ppms

 

[Ossi Ossi]

The advice from @013 is good, although i dont use 1/4 strength nutes. The young plants in veg like those i would be using 1200 uS ec or so. Runoff is very important in coco to avoid salt buildup. I have been growing in coco for a few years, not an expert but somewhat knowledgable.

Ossi did not mention if the coco was prepared (rinsed and buffered with Ca). It should have been but its too late now. Be sure to do that before transplant.

Lets look at the nutrients. Proper Mineral nutrition is about the ratio of elements, and the types of elements.

The nitrosol 12-2-13 shown here is designed for outdoor soil use. It has high levels of ammonium and urea, which require microbial action to make available. Ammonium can be taken up in excess by the plant causing N tox, unless its broken down to nitrate by microbes so its generally used sparingly in coco. Also, it will lower your root zone pH rapidly due to the way the roots take it up.
its also low in P, and that might cause problems.

If you are able to get base nutrients designed for coco you will do better. Generally a good coco fert will use calcium nitrate as the N source, as is in your cal mag.

Thats pretty high N calmag too, it must be calcium nitrate + magnesium nitrate. You might be low on calcium because the nutrasol is so low, even with the cal mag added. Generally cannabis needs about the same amount of Ca as N, with additional Ca needed in coco grows. Note the cal mag has 7% N and 7% Ca (its listed in g/L) But the nutrasol has very low Ca:N ratio.

The maxicrop has some npk but most importanly trace minerals so thats good.

The plants look underfed and a bit yellow. If you pick up the ec they should green up, but watch for n tox for the reasons above, and also P deficiency. You may need a P supplement especially in flower. Try 1tsp per gallon of each of the three and see what the ec is. If it needs adjusting, lower the Amount of nutrasol or raise the others.

Tldr; Sorry if this is too wordy. I think you will have a tough time balancing the ratio of N to the PK levels using these nutrients and providing enough Ca. If you can, replace them. If not, consider adding more PK with a bloom booster or with Monopotassium Phosphate MKP, which is the typical ingredient in a PK booster.

as stated in my original post half way down i mentioned all had been soaked and washed however i did not put calmag in before i potted up yestwerday

 

[Ossi Ossi]

The advice from @013 is good, although i dont use 1/4 strength nutes. The young plants in veg like those i would be using 1200 uS ec or so. Runoff is very important in coco to avoid salt buildup. I have been growing in coco for a few years, not an expert but somewhat knowledgable.

Ossi did not mention if the coco was prepared (rinsed and buffered with Ca). It should have been but its too late now. Be sure to do that before transplant.

Lets look at the nutrients. Proper Mineral nutrition is about the ratio of elements, and the types of elements.

The nitrosol 12-2-13 shown here is designed for outdoor soil use. It has high levels of ammonium and urea, which require microbial action to make available. Ammonium can be taken up in excess by the plant causing N tox, unless its broken down to nitrate by microbes so its generally used sparingly in coco. Also, it will lower your root zone pH rapidly due to the way the roots take it up.
its also low in P, and that might cause problems.

If you are able to get base nutrients designed for coco you will do better. Generally a good coco fert will use calcium nitrate as the N source, as is in your cal mag.

Thats pretty high N calmag too, it must be calcium nitrate + magnesium nitrate. You might be low on calcium because the nutrasol is so low, even with the cal mag added. Generally cannabis needs about the same amount of Ca as N, with additional Ca needed in coco grows. Note the cal mag has 7% N and 7% Ca (its listed in g/L) But the nutrasol has very low Ca:N ratio.

The maxicrop has some npk but most importanly trace minerals so thats good.

The plants look underfed and a bit yellow. If you pick up the ec they should green up, but watch for n tox for the reasons above, and also P deficiency. You may need a P supplement especially in flower. Try 1tsp per gallon of each of the three and see what the ec is. If it needs adjusting, lower the Amount of nutrasol or raise the others.

Tldr; Sorry if this is too wordy. I think you will have a tough time balancing the ratio of N to the PK levels using these nutrients and providing enough Ca. If you can, replace them. If not, consider adding more PK with a bloom booster or with Monopotassium Phosphate MKP, which is the typical ingredient in a PK booster.

hi redcup
no not at all i need all the info i can get atm
this is my second coco grow , first one went along shmicko with same ing however i missed a male and they went to seed,NO NO not these seeds.
i am still a bit stumped on how ec,ppms us ec is all part of this but getting there
question....how do you bring or change for that mattter the usec without affecting ppms and vicw versa
have you got it in laymans terms lol

 

[Redcup]

I am happy to explain the terms ossi. I am not sure of your question.

EC = Electrical Conductivity Meter, measures the approximate amount of fertilizer salts in a solution.
Elemental PPM is the true amount of salts in a solution, parts per million, think of it as one molecule of fertilizer per 1 million molecules of water.
PPM from a meter = approximation of the true ppm using the EC measurement.
There are two standards, 500 scale and the 700 scale. Those are simply scaling factors, the 500 scale is most common.

Fertilzer salts in solution will increase its conductivity, so the ec meter can approximate true concentration with a proxy measurement.

Too high ec will burn the plant roots by drying them out. Roots need to take up minerals and water, and if the salinity is too high it cannot take up water, in fact the solution will draw water out of the roots if salinity is too high. Like salting food for preservation.

Plants need mineral nutrition, taking up certain chemical compounds that are present in dissolved form at the roots. These compounds are ions when dissolved, which means they have an electrical charge. Nitrogen N for example, can be present at the roots as nitrate NO3. The roots “recognize” this ion and absorbs it. As an aside this is true of all plants, whether growing with synthetics or organic fertilizer.

We supply ions in the form of fertilizer salts. A salt is a positive ion (cation) and a negative ion (anion) which dissociate in solution (come apart in water). You cant just add Nitrogen to the solution, it doesnt exist that way in nature, you have to add a salt. Typically Calcium Nitrate is used, its a salt with Ca cation and a Nitrate anion. So you get two nutrients combined.

So we are measuring the total amount of these dissolved solids. If you need to reduce ec, easiest way is to add more water.

 

[Ossi Ossi]

I am happy to explain the terms ossi. I am not sure of your question.

EC = Electrical Conductivity Meter, measures the approximate amount of fertilizer salts in a solution.
Elemental PPM is the true amount of salts in a solution, parts per million, think of it as one molecule of fertilizer per 1 million molecules of water.
PPM from a meter = approximation of the true ppm using the EC measurement.
There are two standards, 500 scale and the 700 scale. Those are simply scaling factors, the 500 scale is most common.

Fertilzer salts in solution will increase its conductivity, so the ec meter can approximate true concentration with a proxy measurement.

Too high ec will burn the plant roots by drying them out. Roots need to take up minerals and water, and if the salinity is too high it cannot take up water, in fact the solution will draw water out of the roots if salinity is too high. Like salting food for preservation.

Plants need mineral nutrition, taking up certain chemical compounds that are present in dissolved form at the roots. These compounds are ions when dissolved, which means they have an electrical charge. Nitrogen N for example, can be present at the roots as nitrate NO3. The roots “recognize” this ion and absorbs it. As an aside this is true of all plants, whether growing with synthetics or organic fertilizer.

We supply ions in the form of fertilizer salts. A salt is a positive ion (cation) and a negative ion (anion) which dissociate in solution (come apart in water). You cant just add Nitrogen to the solution, it doesnt exist that way in nature, you have to add a salt. Typically Calcium Nitrate is used, its a salt with Ca cation and a Nitrate anion. So you get two nutrients combined.

So we are measuring the total amount of these dissolved solids. If you need to reduce ec, easiest way is to add more water.

Thanks man that was awesome info
Ok so currently on day 28 and my solution is ppm 300 EC 450 is this a fair enalisis

 

[Redcup]

For the 700 ppm scale I would expect 300PPM to be about 428EC so that sounds right (multiply by 10/7). I think there a temperature correction there that my approximation is off by. That 700 scale is less common around here. the 500 scale is more widely used but that's just convention and its easier to calculate.

 

[Ossi Ossi]

For the 700 ppm scale I would expect 300PPM to be about 428EC so that sounds right (multiply by 10/7). I think there a temperature correction there that my approximation is off by. That 700 scale is less common around here. the 500 scale is more widely used but that's just convention and its easier to calculate.

Day 28 today
They seem healthy Enuff
Maybe I could feed them a little more if ppm 300-400
With my ec metre as pic it jumps around alot at what point do you take a reading?? Sorry to be a pest but you seem to know if stuff
Ignore reading haha just a pic

 

[Redcup]

@Ossi Ossi those have matured from seedlings and are now in early veg, thats usually three or four nodes. The plants look good. I dont know whats up with the one on the right.

The usual concentration for coco in early veg is 1.0-1.2 uS ec, so on your 700ppm meter that would be approx 700-850ppm. You can increase the concentration by 10-20% each feed without stress. An easy way to increase concentration is to start with less water, then if its too strong add water till your at your target.

In late veg and bloom you can move up to 1.2-1.5 uS which would be approx 800-1000 ppm on the truncheon scale. Those should be safe numbers, err on the low side.

I am not sure what nutes you are using, so watch as you change the feed to note any changes that might indicate toxicity, like dark leaves, drooping, tip burn, etc.

 

[Ossi Ossi]

Howdy redcut
Cheers Yea the one on the right up close it sativa dominant IMO and the rest are definitely indica dominant IMO

Question
10-20% per feed yea but does that marry up to 1100 ppm,I did not record the ecπ grrr.

I f&#$n love your idea of less water and go hard then control it all from there.
I actually have already researched and adopted the truncheon scale,,fkn cool aye.

I'm sorta sucking and seeing with a bit of this, and a bit of that,but keeping within truncheon,which is a lot of work when I have a 20 ltr resivoua that I keep on the money continually from 6am thru 6pm but it's a 15 minute drive each way so I don't really stop till 8 pm being my last readings till 7 am each morning blah blah blah blah
I haven't topped them yet or split stems and so on.
Stay safe bro.

 

[Ossi Ossi]

ok for anyone whos even the slightest interested, here are the latest pics I took last night while I was out there
as this thread was Ruderalis or Not WELL

 

[Bill284]

ok for anyone whos even the slightest interested, here are the latest pics I took last night while I was out there
as this thread was Ruderalis or Not WELL

Beautiful.

 

[Ossi Ossi]

This is my first grow of such indica dominant,they could probably be flipped or let them go day 33