ScienceGrow's Sativa Dominant Outdoor Bag Seed Grow - 2015

[lazyfish]

You only continue to impress me, Science... I swear I think one thing and then you post about it...
I wouldn't mind a link to some of those journals; are they about Cannabis or Humulus? Do you think imitating herbivores might work by just cutting a few leaf tips off? or damaging them a bit like by squeezing leaves and gently marring them? I don't like the idea of extreme defoliation...

I might get some real experimentation done.

^^^^Damn right!

New bud pic: this is a wee Blue Dream bud. She just started to flower...

 

[ScienceGrow]

Humulus, plus several studies on wine grapes, grasses, and other flowering plants. I'm getting a Centennial rhizome in the spring, so good information to know.

Here are a few. Some of the others do use partial leaf damage as a parameter. I'll get those up tomorrow.
Wine grape defoliation
More wine grape defoliation
This is more about topping. Grapes.

That last one is pretry interesting. I read another that confirms the need to increase nutrient availability after defoliation for there to be an overcompensatory reaction.

Sorry, two of those look like they're behind a wall. Strange, they weren't yesterday. Will try to get the text.

I found most by googling "defoliation yield -cannabis" or searching for defoliation and a specific plant name. I exclude cannabis because most returns regarding defoliation and yield are about cannabis, and most of it that is anecdotal or regurgitated. I also used the terms grazing and herbivory in place of defoliation.

 

[ScienceGrow]

There's a lot of abstracts available too, and while you don't get a full underatanding, at least you get their basic results.

New hydro shop opened within 5 minutes of my house. Awesome, they carry everything.

Oh, terpene hypothesis confirmed, many times over. Will post new links to these studies tonight.

 

[ScienceGrow]

Actually, I'm going to do a writeup in another section of the site on the terpene subject. I want to discuss, but preferably in a more appropriate location. I'll leave citations and link to the same research.

Alpha is doing great, recovered lots of leaf area already. More and more trichomes every day. No issues in sight.

I have a UVB bulb, and I'll use it, but I'm waiting until the last couple weeks to do so. Through more reading, I've found I'm unlikely to get much benefit due to relatively low power. I'll likely place this bulb as close as possible to a single bud. Some other UVB studies show a systemic reaction to UVB, so bathing the whole plant in it may not even be necessary.

Beta should be releasing pollen any day now, his flowers are getting big. He's dropping lower, yellowing leaves.

Gamma is temporarily inside under the light until I determine sex. Should be any day now. Small as it is, if it's female, I'm taking a cutting and will try to flower and harvest a single budsite. I'd probably be harvesting before Alpha. Practice before the bigger harvest.

Cuttings are still plenty green. No idea if they've rooted. Any way of checking this without screwing up root development?

I've read a hundred harvest/dry/cure guides. Anyone have their own tips or tricks? Looking for quality vs speed.

Also, looking ahead. Those cuttings are my next grow. I'll still be doing soil. Probably promix of some sort. I'm looking for a good, tuned fertilizer regimen. What's your favorite? Or do you have your own recipe? I plan to try organic eventually, but plan to stick with chems for a few more grows.

 

[ScienceGrow]

Disaster! Sort of.

Was looking at my flowers last night and noticed a few brown things on a low bud, on the sugar leaves actually. On closer inspection I found webbing, compact, inside a bud. I cut the budsite and opened the bud up and a bug jumped out. It was grayish, in purple LED lighting, about 1/4" long. Lost it so no pictures.

I didn't see any more, but ended up spraying with neem oil. I had the lights off for 30 minutes to let it soak up and evaporate, turned lights back on.

Well, turned all the sprayed stigmas brown. Damn.

Im sure more white ones will grow out and I'll still harvest, but, any idea what kind of bug that could be?

Also, those brown spots on the leaves, looked like overripe trichomes. Though it could also be bug feces I guess. Not sure what that bugs feces looks like.

So, now I know, neem oil after lights out.

Also, wrote this up.

 

[Cruizer]

I looked up the insect and it's a white fly. Copied from another site:

White flies behave just like spider mites. The insect hides underneath the leaf, and sucks it's dinner from it. Result: white spots on the top side of the leaf. White flies are easily spotted with the naked eye. If you shake the plant a little, they'll fly around. They look like little white moths, around 2 millimeters in size. A sizeable infestation can be combatted with insecticide. If you're not so anxious to use such strong methods, you can purchase a certain type of 'assassinator' wasp: the ichneumon fly (the Latin name is Encarsia formosa). This natural enemy doesn't sting people, but works well at eliminating white flies. Since it's only a small wasp (smaller than the white fly itself), it takes a while before all the white flies have disappeared. Additionally, you have to put new assassinator wasps out approximately every two weeks.

I think those brown spots, like tar, is bug feces.

 

[Weaselcracker]

A direct spray like that will turn the pistils brown SG. I found that out the hard way once or twice. But yes -new ones will keep on coming

 

[ScienceGrow]

Whiteflies, looks like a good bet, yeah.

I saw only one, and I looked very closely. Also, very few feces spots, all on the same budsite. I'm hoping that's it. If so, damn it, I shouldn't have sprayed.

Thanks for the ID, and assurance of future growth. I was worried about spraying on the buds, but that thing was inside the bud so don't want to chance it.

 

[ScienceGrow]

Amazing plant. Almost completely back to normal again. It looked so sad this morning.

5 of 6 cuttings took root. I moved them to slightly larger containers and by the looks of it they would have been ready a few days ago.

Beta gave up some pollen and I'll probably be pollinating Alpha tonight. One of the lower, less productive buds.

Gamma is flowering, all male, will get some pollen from him when it's ready.

Pics later.

 

[ScienceGrow]

Based on my photos, flowering looks to have started between 8/10 and 08/17. I'm splitting the difference, 8/15. That make today Day 17 flowering. Somehow I thought I was in week four.

Anyway, things are good, no new bugs, no other issues. Pictures! Sorry for the lighting, I can't get the white balance on my camera to set for some reason.

Trichomes!

More!

I'm happy with the growth already, so if I'm really only halfway thru Week 3, and have at least 6 weeks to go, I think I'll be doing pretty well by the end. How do I look?

 

[Weaselcracker]

If you are only 2 and 1/2 weeks into flowering- you're kicking ass. Even if you were 3 1/2 weeks in I'd say they're doing great. Doesn't seem like much stretching going on (?)

 

[ScienceGrow]

Well, that is a question I posed further back. She started flowering on her own while still outside. I posted photos on 8/11, page 2, saying it looked like flowering was kicking in. Probably 13 hours light per day at the time.

On 8/17 I posted pics of obvious flowering, once she was inside. I did 24 hours dark starting the night she came in, to flip the light cycle by 12. A day or two later she was showing really obvious flowering.

So, it's possible it is closer to 3 1/2 - 4 weeks, depending on when flowering time is said to begin based on changes in the plant, vs changes in lighting. So if you have a good Day 1 or Week 1 indicator based on growth, I can check through my photos and pin down a better flowering start date. I have more photos than I've posted.

I'll take doing great. Yeah I noticed a major lack of stretch, from what others were saying. Especially with Sativa dominating, I expected my cabinet to explode. Can't say I'm disappointed though. Maybe I got lucky and it's a red dwarf or some cool genetics. Or maybe my major defoliation of half the plant stunted stretch?

 

[Weaselcracker]

Ok I realized I'd failed to go back and read the first couple pages, which I've done now. Yes the defol, at a guess, probably slowed it. I don't defol my sativas much at all. Generally mine don't need it much- and when I do much defol or supercropping or any other high stress torture, they seem to stop dead in their tracks. Useful sometimes but I avoid it. Also- early flowering is considered to be a bad time to defol any plant, for that reason. Or so I've heard from some expert growers.
Generally the 'rule' is to do defol during veg now and then if necessary , but give at least a week off of any defol before flowering, then wait till after the stretch (roughly 3 weeks indicas, 5 weeks sativas) before doing trimming. During the stretch I might remove an entire limb or a few, but mostly I tuck things around to define the budding tips I want.
After the stretch I remove undergrowth and possible some fans which are in the way or shaded and useless. Of course there aren't any hard and fast rules - but trimming after the stretch has worked out well for me- and the times I did a major defol during the stretch were the times the plants stopped dead for 10-14 days, and never really did catch up.

As long as you're happy. You may have done yourself a favor in terms of plant control.
How are the clones doing? sorry if I missed it.

 

[ScienceGrow]

Yeah, I'm experimenting here and there. I'm happy, this is a first grow, have another going up in the next week with the clones. I'll probably do some more defoliation testing, but after my research, I'll be sticking to less intense.

Clones are rooted, working to reveg, and in red party cups for now. Will move to gallon pots when they're a bit bigger, and then we'll see how much space I have. I've switched to basically 24/0 as they were still growing flowers after a week! Gah! Looks to have slowed and flowers are dying, see new leaves starting.

I'll be experimenting on the clones with nutrients. Clones were watered after transplant. Three got Superthrive, two didn't, and ill be splitting them between Jacks products and fox farm trio. After that i move up to organic..

Will start a new journal soon for that grow, and will be very detailed and methodical this time around. Got my feet wet, all set to dive in.

 

[ScienceGrow]

So, forget white balance, how about I just use real lights.

Man, does she look good. Not sure what's up with the red leaf stems, though I think it may be LED related? It only appears on the top of the stem, with a very distinct, hard, line separating green from red? I notice no issues with growth, things are looking pretty good, and I'm not worried. But should I be?

Here we go!

I know there's a max filesize for photos, but anyone know the max resolution? Whatever they're doing, displaying it at a lower res., downsampling it, whatever, is really making them look like crap. I'm certain I can resize to their maximum display size with better results.

So, any issues you can see? What's with those red stems. Again, nothing wrong, it almost looks like a somatic mutation, or some kind of staining from the light. Sunburn? Seriously, no idea here but the plant seems otherwise healthy. I do have crap soil that is probably compacted as can be. That's the only problem I could see.

Oh, yeah, finally got around to painting some pollen on one of the lower buds. I didn't get a lot out, and I'd really rather not pollinate any of my bigger buds, so it was a half hearted attempt. I painted three very small, very low, flowers that are growing from the main stem. I guess at worst, I'll end up with a bud just like the one that gave me Alpha's seed in the first place.

Also, changed my mind on lighting and just got another LED, 350 true watts. To be honest, it's a matter of temp control. I'm sure I could get more yield etc. from HPS but there's other factors to consider and the pros and cons list weighted toward LED.

Anyway, new journal coming for the clones with the new LED and a number of little experiments. Also have some quality genetics coming which will come after the clones.

This is the coolest hobby ever.

 

[Robert Celt]

Hello SG

Good looking grow mate You asked about the red stems. It could be one of 2 things: it could be genetics of the strain and natural coloring. Or secondly, because you are growing under LEDs, it could be a calcium issue. My with more experience in growing and LEDs than I have, have mentioned that plants under LEDs require more calcium and they suggest adding Cal/Mag to your feed/waterings.

From personal experience with my own grow under LEDs, unless you see dead brown spots on your leaves, or leaves turning pale between the veins and twisting of leaves, I wouldn't worry about it

 

[ScienceGrow]

I may have a pH or calcium issue then. I noticed some leaves sort of turning away from the light, is that what you mean by twisting?

I haven't checked pH on a while. Wasn't a problem when outside, a mix of rain and tap water seemed to keep it balanced. Guess I need to get back on that. Silly newb.

Thanks Celt.

 

[Robert Celt]

The twisting I was referring to would be of the leaves coming buds and look like they where taken by the tip and rotated so that the blade corkscrews.

 

[ScienceGrow]

Well, not seeing that. But, I should check my pH anyway and some cal/mag shouldn't hurt either way. I haven't been pHing my water so I'm betting it's high, around or slightly above 7. Maybe locking calcium out or something.

 

[Robert Celt]

From what I see SG, they are looking good and unless you see brown spotting or twisted leaves I wouldn't worry like I said, it could be in the genetics of the plants. My THC Bombs had red stems and never showed a sign of Cal/Mag deficiencies