ScienceGrow's Sativa Dominant Outdoor Bag Seed Grow - 2015

Well, I would do the lift test, but this is a big ceramic pot and is heavy no matter what.

I think I'll stick to my original watering schedule until it looks like I need to kick it up. Combination watching the leaves and the probe.

I think I've identified my source of droop and the soil feeling dry. My fan was pointed right at the middle of the plant, toward the soil. It's a rather strong fan. I noticed the leaves right in front of the fan have faded a bit. Not yellowed or anything, but a duller green. Constant strong wind might cause that, plus the dry topsoil.

So I pointed the fan at the wall at a 45 at lights on last night, and this morning, no droop.

Clones are still nice and green. rH is at 90%, temp at 77. On a 22-2 light schedule.

If you had to guess, based on previous photos and current photos, what week of flower would you say I'm in? I thought week 2, but descriptions online make it sound closer to 4 or 5. Not looking to rush anything, just want to know when to change/stop fertilizing and start flushing and dropping humidity back. Current rH for Alpha is 65 night, 55 light (after an hour or so of it dropping.)

My next grow, technically already started with the clones, I'm documenting extensively.
 
OMU, on stress. Yeah, I'm sure it's frustrating to hear that, much less "how much will I yield?!?"

I should know by now, with all my plants have been through, that, it's gonna be ok.

I was the same way with my first kid. The second one? No worries.

I'll be far more composed in my future grows.

Good, I'm hoping it's only week 2, she needs lots more time. Thanks for the input Cruizer. When does flowering begin, technically. Attributes of the plant, not the lighting.

Hi there WeaselCracker, nice to have you along for the ride.

Color corrected pics tonight.
 
Myself and most growers I've seen count flowering time from the flip and not from the first sign of flowers. Have to have a common point to give comparisons any real meaning. For sprouts it's from the day the seed breaks soil and not when the first true leaves emerge.

I hear you about kids. The boy's mother filled #1s baby book with pictures and info and there is sweet f**k all in #2s book. Had he been a girl there would have been a dozen books! :)

She got tired of being a mom and left us when they were 7 and 9. Had another boy back east and gave him up for adoption when he was 3. I didn't do the best job as a single dad but the boys still tell me they love me so I guess I wasn't horrible at it. :) Both in their 30s now with 2 kids each of their own.

More plants die from new growers fussing with them too much than die from neglect. Like first kids get to suffer all the mistakes. lol

So many survive that the planet can't hardly support all of us but nature has it's ways of restoring the balance eventually so look out!

L8r
 
So how do outdoor growers make the determination? Alpha stared showing signs of flowering before the move indoors.

Looking for a good name for a quality HID ballast, 400-600W digital, preferably dimmable, low RF. Too much marketing BS, I have no idea who is any good. I see Apollo Horticulture quite a bit. So much so, that I don't trust them.

Any suggestions?

Failed on delivering new photos. This weekend.
 
ScienceGrow said:
So how do outdoor growers make the determination? Alpha stared showing signs of flowering before the move indoors.

Looking for a good name for a quality HID ballast, 400-600W digital, preferably dimmable, low RF. Too much marketing BS, I have no idea who is any good. I see Apollo Horticulture quite a bit. So much so, that I don't trust them.

Any suggestions?

Failed on delivering new photos. This weekend.
Click to expand...

That's a good point SG. I guess outdoor plants would have to count from when flowers start emerging. I'll happily switch standarda if we all agree on one. My buds look even better for 2 and a half weeks instead of a week more. :)

Don't know what make my 400s are but they were old used ones when I got them 14 years ago and I've put a lot of miles on them since then.

I would recommend you get a 600. Won't cost much more and is the most efficient going by lumens per watt. Or a 600/400 and have the best of both worlds.

L8r
 
My Lumatek 600s dim from 300-400-600-to"super lumens" which is about 650 or something. It's great being able to dim them- at least for the different stages of veg. Flowering they tend to stay on 600. They also take both mh and hps bulbs.
 
Yeah OMU, l 600 with downstepping is looking to be the best solution for me.

Weaselcracker, Lumatek was at the top of my list based on reliability, efficiency, RF, and noise. Price has me second guessing but, it's an investment. So I'll likely be getting a Lumatek 600W digital ballast of some sort for my new cabinet.

I've been experimenting with defoliation. Not the whole plant, just some select branches. What a contentious subject; will be good to see for myself what the effects are, if any. Pictures tonight.

Funny story: Gamma may not be a boy. I'm not sure if I just saw a spur at a weird angle or what, but, no flowers of any kind on Gamma.

What's interesting, and awesome, is Gamma seems to have the leaves of an Indica. This seems to confirm my suspicion that the source plant was likely pollinated accidentally, early on, by another plant. So hermie fears fully gone.

But, what's more likely, that the pollen that made Alpha(and maybe Beta) is from a different plant than Gamma, or that Gamma is simply another phenotype that expresses Indica leaves? Who would be a good resource for this question? Or particular forum/subforum.

No sex yet, so let's hope it's a girl so I can flower her and see what she's all about. Will post pictures of Beta and Gamma tonight as well.
 
You can't really see what defoliation does by removing leaves from select branches on the same plant. Those branches will just take sugars from the whole plant and there won't be any noticeable difference. You would need to grow two clones taken from the same mother and rip leaves off one of them to see if there is changes in growth.

Plants grown from seed that isn't super stable will show different characteristics depending on the mix of genes they inherited from the parents. Picking out the best phenotype to breed more seeds reinforcing the traits you want is the tricky bit.

From what I've heard about these dimmable ballasts is that running a 600 bulb at say 400 throws the whole spectrum off and can reduce the life of the bulb. Same for running in "super lumens" mode. I'd get a 400W bulb to run it at the lower setting. Must be proper studies of this out there somewhere that aren't just a grower's opinion but as I don't have any digital ballasts those that do can look for it. :)

L8r
 
I did hear that talk about the spectrum being 'off'. Read through a pile of websites and got convinced it was a myth. I don't remember what convinced me but I seem to think it was a study done by a bulb or ballast maker that showed no appreciable difference/issues. Perhaps I was just finding what I wanted to find. I'll double check if I get the time.
 
Ok I found the study I was thinking of. Probably can't link to it on 420 but I'll see if I can PM it, in which case I'll send it to both of you. Kind of an interesting read. Kinda just re-skimmed it at this point but here is my impression-
Hps bulbs are less affected in efficiency (output per wattage consumption) by dimming, compared to mh bulbs. Basically- the more you dim a bulb the less efficient it gets. The spectrum does shift a bit- but very little in the scheme of things. Studies testing bulbs at full power and at dimmed output have found no appreciable difference in bulb life- though manufacturers like to caution otherwise.
 
I wouldn't mind reading that. I doubt there's a problem with a link like that unless it's on another pot forum. Most digital users would probably like to see it as well.

L8r
 
Ok that was a bit of work. The study was attached to a 'rival' forum it turns out. I tried Pm-ing to myself but it was censored.
Did you guys know that you can PM yourself? Well, you can. I found it out by accident once.
I managed to track it down to the source and that link works fine to send so here ya go I'll PM it. If you don't want to you don't have to read it, of course, won't bother me a bit :).


EDIT- let's try it directly first-
https://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/NLPIP/lightinganswers/pdf/view/LAHID.pdf

Ok that works. Much better for all then.
 
Wow, I figured defoliation on one stem would have some effect. Well, it's getting thick at the top anyway and I'm keeping it that way, so the ones I did may benefit a bit.

I would definitely be going for a combination of the bulbs. I'm not sure I'd dim unless a plant started getting too high and I couldn't get it back down, but I don't like the idea of dimming any bulb that isn't standard incandescent.

Alpha seems to be doing alright. There should be plenty of light, I have four 2500 CFLs on the perimeter balancing things out. My temps are steady at 78 lights on, 68 lights off. Humidity is about 45 lights on, 60 lights off. pH last I checked was 6.5. I'm feeding Jack's Classic Bloom Booster at every other watering, 1 tsp/gallon.

Flowers are really starting to grow, and on a few of the photos, I get some good shots of some trichomes, so I'm pleased with the progress. Here's pictures.

After some defoliation. Most of it is beneficial as far as light is concerned. I did the hacking on friday, and whether it was the trimming or something else, flower growth is a bit faster.
DSC_1633.JPG

View image in gallery​










Here's Gamma with it's Indica leaves. No sex yet, so I threw it inside after a few day quarantine.



And my clones of Alpha seem to be just fine. I do 20-4 with a single CFL, 6500K.


No problems, everything is smooth. I'd say I have another eight at least until harvest. I guess it's time to sit back and wait. The only other thing I can think to add might be a UVB lamp. The LED already has UVA. Any experience? I've seen some well documented articles and a couple seemingly professional studies so I'm inclined to buying into it.
 
I be trippin' man! Those plants look psychedelic. Thought I was having a flash-back to the good old acid days. :)

She looks so bare now. I do not believe in defoliation at all except for real old fans connected at the base of bushy branches.

With the yellowing problem I flushed for today if I had done that to the plant earlier I would have no leaves at all now and be chopping a pittance of buds off her.

Hope it goes well for ya. :thumb:

L8r
 
Thanks guys, I love photographing this stuff. Need to find or build a macro lens. Saw a pocket magnifier hack, but won't work on my phone very well. Lens for my Nikon is > $500.

OMU, I wouldn't be touching her if I didn't know she could take it. I'll probably leave her, except to clean up any light blocking growth.

I've done extensive reading on natural defoliation via herbivores, not specific to Cannabis. In Hops, defoliation right near the beginning of flower increased terpenoid production in some varieties. In some wine grapes, Tartaric acid production increased, as did localized fruit grouping. In some grains, tannin production increased.

In some plants, depending on defoliation pattern and the period of growth of the plant, fruit/flower/seed, yields were increased. This was not common, but not quite rare either. The effect was generally attributed to more light getting through the canopy, a reduction in the red:far red spectrum ratio(reduced difference between them,) and compensatory photosynthetic production/overproduction. In most plants, yield appeared to decrease or stay the same. Timing and mass reduced appear to be important here, and I'd say some experimentation is in order.

I don't believe defoliation is a sure thing when it comes to yield increase. Some strains may have a better reaction. I do think defoliation is likely to increase terpenes however. It's possible I've missed a better explanation, but I am under the impression that terpenes are present to ward off herbivores. They aren't there to attract anything, it needs no help with pollination. It's got other defenses against herbivores, like the hairlike trichomes early on in vegetative. It's resistant to defoliation stress. This is a plant that has evolved to survive, as we all know. It seems likely that terpenes are part of its survival repertoire. By simulating a grazing deer or rabbit, terpenes production may increase. Unfortunately, I don't know whether that increase is temporary, and if so, how long.

But, I was mostly going for an increase in light exposure to each bud. I would also attribute the yield increases most people see through defoliation to increased light exposure. Most talk about how they grow a pound on a single short plant with a 400w light. Seems a compact canopy with only a few leaves attenuating light increases production. Certainly not the yield panacea most are looking for.

Though I have to say, bud development has definitely increased. Almost certainly the increase in available light. And after four days, buds are returning where I snipped, and leaves that I left, are much bigger than they were. Cool as hell, seeing what I've been reading about.

Not arguing or trying to sway, just my explanation for such a drastic measure. And I like spreading knowledge. Happy to link to the research papers, if desired. None are from competing cannabis forums, mostly universities and journals.

Hopefully my six clones take, and I might get some real experimentation done.
 

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