Soil For Thought

[ppm Charlie]

LOL!

 

[NOOOBIENOT]

I was under the impression that dolomite lime has to cooked -composted before it become available to the roots and if put in pots not cooked it creates a hot temps as it does slowly cook in your pots and is very bad for any roots near by . this is usually a component of organic soil that gets composted before plants are added to the pots , usually 30 days or more of composting , depending on the granular size of the lime ,correct if i am wrong , emilya would know this .

 

[ppm Charlie]

I was under the impression that dolomite lime has to cooked -composted before it become available to the roots and if put in pots not cooked it creates a hot temps as it does slowly cook in your pots and is very bad for any roots near by . this is usually a component of organic soil that gets composted before plants are added to the pots , usually 30 days or more of composting , depending on the granular size of the lime ,correct if i am wrong , emilya would know this .

I think you are in error regarding the "cooking" of dolomite for proper release in soilless media for pH adjustment. I do not believe the "normal heat" of soil or soil composting plays much of a factor in dissolution and availability of either lime or dolomite. Dolomite and lime are both commonly used to adjust low pH soilless mix to a higher "correct" pH. Both these soil amendments supply needed calcium to the soilless mix. Lime is quick to dissolve, while dolomite is slower to dissolve. While lime contains only calcium, dolomite contains both calcium and magnesium. During growth plants need both calcium and magnesium for proper photosynthesis (ex: use of "Cal-Mag" solutions by growers). Using lime alone adjusts soilless media pH higher and gives plants a quick calcium "boost", however, calcium decreases quickly in concentration over time as it is used by the plant and also expelled in water/nutrient waste overflow. Using dolomite alone helps preserve calcium and magnesium in the soilless mix because the dolomite takes longer to dissolve, be expelled in water/nutrient overflow and be completely used up by the plant.

 

[ppm Charlie]

I was under the impression that dolomite lime has to cooked -composted before it become available to the roots and if put in pots not

I think you are in error regarding the "cooking" of dolomite for proper release in soilless media for pH adjustment. I do not believe the "normal heat" of soil or soil composting plays much of a factor in dissolution and availability of either lime or dolomite. Dolomite and lime are both commonly used to adjust low pH soilless mix to a higher "correct" pH. Both these soil amendments supply needed calcium to the soilless mix. Lime is quick to dissolve, while dolomite is slower to dissolve. While lime contains only calcium, dolomite contains both calcium and magnesium. During growth plants need both calcium and magnesium for proper photosynthesis (ex: use of "Cal-Mag" solutions by growers). Using lime alone adjusts soilless media pH higher and gives plants a quick calcium "boost", however, calcium decreases quickly in concentration over time as it is used by the plant and also expelled in water/nutrient waste overflow. Using dolomite alone helps preserve calcium and magnesium in the soilless mix because the dolomite takes longer to dissolve, be expelled in water/nutrient overflow and be completely used up by the plant.

Also see: Amending Peat for Cannabis – Zombie Gardens.

I was under the impression that dolomite lime has to cooked -composted before it become available to the roots and if put in pots not cooked it creates a hot temps as it does slowly cook in your pots and is very bad for any roots near by . this is usually a component of organic soil that gets composted before plants are added to the pots , usually 30 days or more of composting , depending on the granular size of the lime ,correct if i am wrong , emilya would know this .

Also see: Amending Peat for Cannabis – Zombie Gardens.

 

[ppm Charlie]

Another reason I use finely ground slow dissolving dolomite [CaMg(CO3)2] and no agricultural lime [CaCO3], to adjust the pH of my soilless mix has to do with the water I use to irrigate my plants. I use natural spring water that is slightly "hard". Water "hardness" is basically defined as the amount of dissolved limestone in the water. Pure limestone has the formula CaCO3. My pH adjusted irrigation water is pH=6.0 +/- 0.25. In that range of pH, "slightly hard-water" calcium ions (Ca+2) are "free" for uptake by the plant (the solution contains, Ca+2 ["free"calcium ions in solution] and nearly equal amounts of HCO3- [bicarbonate] and H2CO3 [carbonic acid]). See attached diagram of dissolved CaCO3 ionic species in pure water at various pH's (concentration on the vertical axis is greater as you go higher [i.e. 10-2 concentration greater than 10-3 concentration]). Therefore, since my pH adjusted irrigation water is slightly hard and full of "free" calcium, I do not need additional quick release calcium in the form of agricultural lime. Note: "free" = in ionic solution and not "bound-up" (unavailable or complexed) in mineral or ionic form.

 

[Jungle Joseph]

I tried peat and soil, and now I'm using coco perlite. It would be interesting to see how peat and perlite does.

 

[ppm Charlie]

I tried peat and soil, and now I'm using coco perlite. It would be interesting to see how peat and perlite does.

Yes. I bought some Coco mix too. Have not tried it yet but I will in the future. I believe Coco is the future of growing indoors and potted outdoor plants. Coco is more environmentally sustainable than peat and has good textural properties for growing 420.

 

[RomanFilipowicz]

Half sphagnum peat moss and half perlite or vermiculite is a basic recipe for a handmade soil less mix.
I have to start by pouring two gallons of peat moss into the bushel basket to combine 12 bushel basket or four gallons of media.
Then I must thoroughly mix two gallons of either perlite or vermiculite.

 

[BakedARea]

Firstly , a warm welcome to our home and safe place! I thoroughly enjoyed your first post. I love the user name by the way! Currently studying for a cert test tomorrow and lots of ppm will be discussed and calculated.

For the last 20 yrs, because of employment requirements, I had to refrain from the wake and bake. I am now retired and plan to reestablish my past youthful 420 ways.

I found distilled bottled water is not that good a choice since the pH and TDS of the water can vary significantly (author's personal experimentation, 2021). Ideally, the pH of RO water is 7.0 (i.e. "neutral" pH). In fact, RO derived water is not pH=7 (generally) for very long. As soon as RO water is produced and left in contact with the CO2 in the air around us it starts to immediately change in pH, gradually, to eventual values between 5.5 to 5.8 pH range (Why Reverse Osmosis Water is Acidic?).

Everything about this is a great read. Thank you for sharing. I agree with you. Also, folks need to take into account where they buy their water from. Most stores use regionally produced water to minimize on distribution and freight. Just branded differently at the bottling plants. I think the best option is producing your own RO water or buy it from a local water store that has quality inspection reports available within arms length. Not one of these fill your own bottle machines on the side of Walmart either.

Your story sounds much like mine, old Humboldt guy in my youth, stealth grows, and watching over your shoulder, but 30 years at a Government Lab with a security clearance put a damper on growing and use. Just got back into it when I retired (early) about 8 years ago. Sure is easier and less stressful now that it's legal (in my state). Welcome and happy growing!

Again...another awesome username!

Welcome ppm Charlie, I'm another one. 30 years off then retired from a random drug tested job. Been growing for a few years now and haven't looked back! Good to see you!

I dream of being able to retire someday. Working under today's corporate world is unbelievably uninspiring and soul sucking. I could lose my job right now if I had a random drug test. I would be prepared for a fight but it would likely be one I wouldn't win. I would still try and fight in the hope that I could change their policy.

so I can relate (although I've found ways around the nasty test the last 35 years..)

I'm 15 years in and have been trying to avoid it off and on this whole time. There was a time where I wasn't consuming anything though.

I've learned a lot since my misspent youth...unfortunately, because of my misspent youth, I can't remember most of it...
Welcome to 420, ppm Charlie

Here here!!!

 

[StoneOtter]

Working under today's corporate world is unbelievably uninspiring and soul sucking.

So things haven't changed baked. There's so many compromises to be made to remain in the mainstream working world. But you know what they say, ya gotta pay the piper if you want to dance! Stay safe brother and don't let them pull you in.

 

[Thirvnrob]

Hello, I'm "ppm Charlie". I just joined here. I interested in cannabis cultivation and various recreational and medicinal products and uses. In my youth, I used 420 for recreational and medical purposes. For the last 20 yrs, because of employment requirements, I had to refrain from the wake and bake. I am now retired and plan to reestablish my past youthful 420 ways. In my long ago past, I had a successful grow. In those days, before legalization in many states, things were quite hush-hush and sometimes dangerous. Hopefully, that place and time is now in the distant past.

A month ago, I began a new grow (courtesy of our Canadian friends and their wonderful seed banks). When my new grow is harvest and cured, I plan to use 420 for recreational and medical purposes again. I do not own any particular hemp products, except for twine I use to bind-up the vegetable garden plants. I am politically motivated to help efforts to legalize hemp and cannabis products in my backward-thinking area of the southern USA. Hopefully, one day soon that dream will come true.

For my new grow, I am using a "home-brewed" peat-perlite soilless mix. The mix includes bacterial inoculation (mycorrhizal inocculum) for healthy root growth and increased nutrient uptake and dolomite powder for pH balance. I am adding dolomite powder to the mix to raise the pH to the correct pH level of 5.8-6.2 (the peat-perlite mix started around pH=4.5 before the dolomite was added) .

I had some thoughts on soil pH and the measurement of soil pH.

I do not use a "soil pH meter" to measure soil pH because those types of soil testing devices are nearly useless. I am testing my mix using the "slurry" method for measuring the pH of a soil sample. The method is described many places in detail online, however, for me, I measure-out about 3/4 of a soil sample by volume into a clean glass jar and add bottled water to the top of the soil to make a slurry. I shake vigorously, wait 10 minutes and use a calibrated and inexpensive pH probe to measure the slurry pH.

I use the "Wally's World" store's bottled water (has a blue label and cap and is marked "purified drinking water", rhymes with "hams") because it is a down-and-dirty substitute for RO water. "Ham's" bottled water is easily obtainable, RO derived, near neutral in pH and has very low in TDS (as shown here: Sam’s Choice Water Test | Bottled Water Tests - TestAqua.com). It makes a great substitute for distilled water that can vary in quality, pH and TDS. Test it for yourself if not convinced. I tested it and found the "Ham's" purified drinking water at pH levels ranging from 6.8 to 7.2.

Regarding the "right" choice of water for soil pH slurry testing, I believe the water should be nearly "neutral" (pH=7) and low in TDS so as not to skew the soil sample pH one way or the other. I found distilled bottled water is not that good a choice since the pH and TDS of the water can vary significantly (author's personal experimentation, 2021). Ideally, the pH of RO water is 7.0 (i.e. "neutral" pH). In fact, RO derived water is not pH=7 (generally) for very long. As soon as RO water is produced and left in contact with the CO2 in the air around us it starts to immediately change in pH, gradually, to eventual values between 5.5 to 5.8 pH range (Why Reverse Osmosis Water is Acidic?).

The soilless mix I prepared used pre-moistened peat (65%) + perlite (35%) by volume (7.5gals total, or, 1 cu.ft.), including bacterial inoculation and 10 tablespoons of powdered dolomite. A soil slurry test method of this concoction registered pH=5.95 using the the pocket pH probe and using "Wally World" bottled water. That is right in the center of my goal of 5.8-6.2 (your results may vary slightly depending on the brand of peat used). An NCSU cannabis study indicated this is the proper pH for soilless mix for best results (New Research Results: Optimal pH for Cannabis). This is the soilless media mix preparation I will use for cultivation of my 420. Others have found similar results (see "Dolomitic Lime" section at: Amending Peat for Cannabis – Zombie Gardens). Now that I have found an adequate soilless prep method using the peat and perlite stock I am using, I can prepare additional mix with more confidence regarding final soilless media pH (I will still test it though and make any necessary adjustments).

While there is no "true-blue" method of soil sample pH preparation and measurement, I believe I have done the best I can. Does anyone have thoughts on preparing soilless media for pH soil testing? I would be grateful for any input.

Welcome @ppm Charlie ! I’m wondering if we live in the same backwards thinking southern state…
The best thing about retirement is knowing I’ll never have to pee in a cup for anyone!
I loved the intro. I’ll certainly be following your posts to see what knowledge I can glean from them…

 

[ppm Charlie]

Half sphagnum peat moss and half perlite or vermiculite is a basic recipe for a handmade soil less mix.
I have to start by pouring two gallons of peat moss into the bushel basket to combine 12 bushel basket or four gallons of media.
Then I must thoroughly mix two gallons of either perlite or vermiculite.

I like a good aerated soilless mix. Half peat and half perlite is good, however, do the plants dry out quickly with the higher ratios of perlite?

 

[ppm Charlie]

Firstly , a warm welcome to our home and safe place! I thoroughly enjoyed your first post. I love the user name by the way! Currently studying for a cert test tomorrow and lots of ppm will be discussed and calculated.



Everything about this is a great read. Thank you for sharing. I agree with you. Also, folks need to take into account where they buy their water from. Most stores use regionally produced water to minimize on distribution and freight. Just branded differently at the bottling plants. I think the best option is producing your own RO water or buy it from a local water store that has quality inspection reports available within arms length. Not one of these fill your own bottle machines on the side of Walmart either.


Again...another awesome username!

I dream of being able to retire someday. Working under today's corporate world is unbelievably uninspiring and soul sucking. I could lose my job right now if I had a random drug test. I would be prepared for a fight but it would likely be one I wouldn't win. I would still try and fight in the hope that I could change their policy.

I'm 15 years in and have been trying to avoid it off and on this whole time. There was a time where I wasn't consuming anything though.

Here here!!!

I would like to make my own RO water, however, my residence is not on "city" water and the only source on water here is a natural spring in limestone geologic terrain that is 200-230 ppm in TDS ("slightly hard" on most water harness scales). I use the spring water for washing and bathing but not drinking. I go to the local water machine and fill gallon jugs for "kitchen-use" and pet water. I buy various store-brand 16-20 oz. bottles for drinking water. Making RO water for me would be problematic because to RO filter would quickly clog if I used the natural spring water here. That would be expensive. I do have a plan in mind to ask a neighbor to supply "city" water to me. I would buy a 150-300gal plastic tank, fill my tank at the neighbor's house, pay them for the water and then bring it to my house and filter it using RO. In any case, that is my current plan, someday.

 

[BakedARea]

I would like to make my own RO water, however, my residence is not on "city" water and the only source on water here is a natural spring in limestone geologic terrain that is 200-230 ppm in TDS ("slightly hard" on most water harness scales). I use the spring water for washing and bathing but not drinking. I go to the local water machine and fill gallon jugs for "kitchen-use" and pet water. I buy various store-brand 16-20 oz. bottles for drinking water. Making RO water for me would be problematic because to RO filter would quickly clog if I used the natural spring water here. That would be expensive. I do have a plan in mind to ask a neighbor to supply "city" water to me. I would buy a 150-300gal plastic tank, fill my tank at the neighbor's house, pay them for the water and then bring it to my house and filter it using RO. In any case, that is my current plan, someday.

Sounds like a good plan. You could do a pre-filter to capture a large amount of that tds before processing it into the at home ro system.

 

[ppm Charlie]

So things haven't changed baked. There's so many compromises to be made to remain in the mainstream working world. But you know what they say, ya gotta pay the piper if you want to dance! Stay safe brother and don't let them pull you in.

Yep, either work or weed (a damnable choice). Things may be changing though...I read that Amazon is no longer requiring 420 drug tests as a prerequisite to employment. It always seemed a disturbing irony to me that employers in the past sponsored drunken alcohol related events for many years and that the consequences of that inebriation cost many lives, divorces aplenty and significant company liability. However, smoke one joint, be happy and eat a pizza and that person is blackballed from an industry for life with a positive pee test. What a warped world we live in.

 

[ppm Charlie]

Welcome @ppm Charlie ! I’m wondering if we live in the same backwards thinking southern state…
The best thing about retirement is knowing I’ll never have to pee in a cup for anyone!
I loved the intro. I’ll certainly be following your posts to see what knowledge I can glean from them…

Thank you.

 

[ppm Charlie]

Sounds like a good plan. You could do a pre-filter to capture a large amount of that tds before processing it into the at home ro system.

Pre-filtering of my natural spring water would probably not help in the case of TDS since those Totally Dissolved Solids (TDS) are in solution in the water in simple ionic and complex ionic chemical forms. TDS by it's nature cannot be filtered by "normal" means. TDS can be removed by "cation exchange" - Culligan-type water softeners. However, water softeners simply exchange sodium or potassium for calcium and magnesium and make the water taste slightly salty. Generally, softened water is not recommended for drinking without additional RO treatment. For my "city" water plan, I would pretreat with a simple "sediment" filter followed by two separate carbon filters to eliminate solids and chlorine. Then I would use that pre-filtered "city" water to make RO water. However, there is a certain amount of wastewater in the making of RO water. New RO units generally make approximately 1-gal of RO water for each 4-gals of water processed. As the RO system ages those ratios of RO/wastewater go from 1-to-4 to something like 1-to-10, 1-to-20, or higher. I have not really decided what to do but I am sticking with my natural spring water for the present time and holding out for the most economical solution. My 420 plants seem to be doing well with natural spring water, however, salt buildup in the form of nutrient and carbonate residues can be a problem. I am keeping my eye out for salt buildup and will flush it out with distilled water or rainwater water if it impedes plant growth to a significant degree.

 

[StoneOtter]

Yep, either work or weed (a damnable choice). Things may be changing though...I read that Amazon is no longer requiring 420 drug tests as a prerequisite to employment. It always seemed a disturbing irony to me that employers in the past sponsored drunken alcohol related events for many years and that the consquences of that inebriation cost many lives, divorces aplenty and significant company liability. However, smoke one joint, be happy and eat a pizza and that person is blackballed from an industry for life with a positive pee test. What a warped world we live in.

Hear you with ears that worked in public transportation for almost 30 years! Makes no sense!

 

[StoneOtter]

I would like to make my own RO water, however, my residence is not on "city" water and the only source on water here is a natural spring in limestone geologic terrain that is 200-230 ppm in TDS ("slightly hard" on most water harness scales). I use the spring water for washing and bathing but not drinking. I go to the local water machine and fill gallon jugs for "kitchen-use" and pet water. I buy various store-brand 16-20 oz. bottles for drinking water. Making RO water for me would be problematic because to RO filter would quickly clog if I used the natural spring water here. That would be expensive. I do have a plan in mind to ask a neighbor to supply "city" water to me. I would buy a 150-300gal plastic tank, fill my tank at the neighbor's house, pay them for the water and then bring it to my house and filter it using RO. In any case, that is my current plan, someday.

I'm on well water Charlie at over 400ppm and also we soften it and it's still around 400ppm. I've used a ro filter for going on 2 years with no issue for my tent grows.

 

[ppm Charlie]

I'm on well water Charlie at over 400ppm and also we soften it and it's still around 400ppm. I've used a ro filter for going on 2 years with no issue for my tent grows.

A lot of RO units advertise the ability to filter water at higher concentrations of TDS without significant degradation of the RO membrane filter system. Which RO manufacture's unit are you using? I may give an RO unit a try. Bottled water is expensive.