The Proper Way To Water A Potted Plant

[kikikopa]

You have obviously figured out that you are in the very best hands possible for your stated goal. Very clear communication on your part. Excellent stuff. I took a similar approach as you are as soon as I also started to get hip to this girl and her knowledge base, and I can't begin to tell you the difference it has made in my grows. Emilya's the best. Good luck!!!

Thanks Jon. Without a doubt, the information that Emilya has posted on these threads is invaluable and I'm very grateful for it. All the best to you too.

There is nothing at all wrong with topping your plant while still in the first container... I do it all the time. It is very important not to rush out of this first container. You will never again have an opportunity to have the roots packed into this small of a space with your ability to force a rootball into that constricted space. In every larger container upwards, this process is harder and harder, since it involves so much more space.

Chopping at the 5th, 6th and even 7th nodes will work and will double your yield with just that first cut. It is also common to top between nodes 2 and 3, after waiting for this 5th one to come up, and this results in a plant with 4 main colas. It is also common to top between node 3 and 4, and this acts much like a FIM cut, and it is up to the plant to decide whether to give you 2,3,4 or even 5 main colas. This cut takes the longest for the plant to resolve, and you never know what will result. Topping between 4 and 5 or anywhere upwards from there, always results in 2 main colas.

Yes, I immediately soak the new container upon uppotting so as to merge the two soil regions and to really get the roots going. At any point in the grow and in any sized container, if the plant is taking longer than 3-4 days to drain the water, I give a mini in between watering of just the top surface and mostly the outer edges, just to keep the plant's metabolism high, while waiting on its big bottom roots to drain that water.

It sounds like you are on the way to a wonderful result. The rootball is the key!

All excellent information once again. Thank you Emilya. One of my concerns about topping and shortly thereafter transplanting, or vice-a-versa, was whether that would be too much of a shock to the plant but that doesn't sound like the case.

I have been slightly tempted to "jump the gun" and uppot now even though the requirements have not been fully satisfied yet but I will hold off until the plant says it's ready. I'm in full faith mode now!

I liked your noting that you only get one shot in the solo cups which is important to remember and for me an reminder to practice patience. I'm always looking to do something to the plants but sometimes doing nothing to the plants is the best thing to do.

It sounds like topping is the way to go but I'm wondering if there are there any potential problems that can arise as a result or is it 100% pro and 0% con? Would there ever be a reason to not top a plant and just let it grow naturally or is it a case of once you try it you'll never go back?

When you say "after the fifth node comes up", does that mean to wait until all the leaves have fully developed or when they first start developing? I'm thinking of trying the cut between nodes 1 and 2 to generate four main colas.

In your experience Emilya, what topping method has given you the highest yield increase? The thought of doubling, tripling, or even quadrupling my yields is very desirable and I'm looking forward to wonderful results.

 

[Brudley]

Why do we up-pot?
The art of successive up-potting is important in growing a healthy root system. People like to be lazy. I am constantly seeing new gardeners take a little sprig of a weed and put it in a big 3 or 5 gallon container, thinking that they have done a good thing, and are now done with it... it's on to harvest time! The problem is, this doesn't work, because it gives you zero control over developing the roots, and without crazy watering techniques, almost no chance of a solid root ball forming. It is imperative to successively up pot your plants through stages so that the root system can roughly take on the same size and shape as the plant in order to get the maximum productivity. The roots grow aggressively in these weeds, and if you confine them to a container the size of the plant, they will fill that space in a short time with a dense root system. Putting a plant in an oversized container can and often does, result in all the roots going to the bottom, drowning the plant, root rot and overall poor health because of a lack of a root ball, and certainly less than optimum harvests. It is important to force these weeds into producing a root ball at various stages, to give the plant the ability later on to take in the massive amounts of nutrients needed to produce lots of quality buds.
The plants in the smaller containers can also more directly show you when they are thriving or more importantly when they are not. A strong healthy plant will eventually outgrow its container and an observant gardener is carefully watching the length of time between wet/dry cycles, and directly relating shorter cycles with more robust roots. A smaller container also gives the gardener the ability to see when the moment arrives that the amount of soil the plant is in is no longer large enough for the plant's abilities to be happy in it, because it will be obvious when the plant can drain the water that soil is able to hold, in less than 24 hours. Your soil and your container at that point have ceased at that point to be a good enough buffer, and it is time to double the space the roots have to work with. Let your plant show you when that time is, and try not to make decisions for her.

So with this in mind, should we go from solo cup straight to 5 gallon with an autoflower?

 

[Emilya Green]

So with this in mind, should we go from solo cup straight to 5 gallon with an autoflower?

Yes, many do... some even go all the way to a 7. Just as many have determined that a 3gallon is just not big enough for a well rooted auto plan.

 

[Jon]

So with this in mind, should we go from solo cup straight to 5 gallon with an autoflower?

Hi Brudley - I'm Jon. I'm an Emilya devotee. I also grow tons of autos. It's really unlikely, just short of impossible, that you'd have time to up pot twice with an auto, unfortunately. It's one of the downsides. If you started in Dixies with autos, at least I always go from that to the final pot, whatever size I'm using. Otherwise you're likely to start flowering when you're not in the pot you chose for the final home. For what it's worth.

 

[Brudley]

I checked both plants and they have a tap root at the bottom of the cup. I would have thought transplant now before, but after reading Emilya's post I'm thinking of leaving it in the cup a little longer until I have to water it daily, then transplant into the bigger pot? I want a root ball, not just a tap root, to transplant correct. These seems very important so don't want to mess it up.

 

[Jon]

I checked both plants and they have a tap root at the bottom of the cup. I would have thought transplant now before, but after reading Emilya's post I'm thinking of leaving it in the cup a little longer until I have to water it daily, then transplant into the bigger pot? I want a root ball, not just a tap root, to transplant correct. These seems very important so don't want to mess it up.

Emilya's post tells you your answer. I only break her rule a very little bit with autos only and transplant them a little earlier than I would a photo in a Dixie. Usually for me that ends up around day 18-20. You want it in the final home before it begins to flower, but there's no reason it has to be by much, it will acclimate very quickly to it's new digs. I personally have found that if I go around day 20 to the final home, it has still had time to develop an appreciable root ball and the plant has a few days to get up to speed and start jamming in it's new home before flowering begins. There's no reason you can't do everything in a Dixie cup that you would in the final home in terms of training, so staying in the Dixie for 20 days relative to training isn't a problem. You just up pot a trained plant. NOTE: this is just my experience and how I do it, for what it's worth and I hope it's helpful, but please know there are many more experienced than me.

 

[Emilya Green]

The tap root can hit the bottom of the cup on day 3. This is the first goal of the new seedling, to figure out where the bottom is. In almost every case, this happens well before the need to transplant. You should not race to uppot, or you WILL NOT develop a rootball. Use that constricted space for as long as you can, and that point is up until the point of diminishing returns. As soon as the plant can drain that cup in 24-36 hours, and in an auto, maybe even 48 hours, you have developed the roots as well as you can in that space, and any moment longer you start to have diminishing returns on your efforts. Patience is the hardest part of growing.

 

[Brudley]

Perfect, I’m going with that plan. I’ll continue the story in my Journal
Thank you for quick thoughtful responses, you guys/gals rock!

Dueling Purple Haze In Living Soil

Purple Haze Journal Germinated 2 Purple Haze Auto seed from Red Beard Seeds about 11/19, Soaked in 50/50 peroxide/ph water mix for 24 hrs then into a wet paper towel in a baggie for another 24. 11/21 Both seeds had popped with nice tails, put into solo cups with Jiffy seeding mix with a little...

www.420magazine.com

 

[kikikopa]

Yes, many do... some even go all the way to a 7. Just as many have determined that a 3gallon is just not big enough for a well rooted auto plan.

I've planted auto seed directly in 5 and 7 gallon pots before I got turned on to Emilya's methods. When I first started a grow, the information that I found pretty consistently said to plant autos directly in the final pot and so I did. Somehow I was able to carefully water (some of) them to the point where they produced a decent yield both in size and in quality but I've also lost seed from over watering. It wasn't until I examined the root balls of these autos that I discovered that they only filled a small portion of both the 5 and 7 gallon pots. Now I wonder how much better those grows could have been if I had first built a solid root ball and subsequently filled their respective pot sizes to capacity. I would guess that the stars would need to be perfectly aligned to get an auto to fill out a 7 gallon pot.

I've made mistakes with autos that slowed down their growth to the point that when they finally did start flowering they were not very big and did not yield much. That was on me of course but my point is that you need to know what autos are capable of and work with that in mind. I should mention that these were all outdoor grows so I was also at the mercy of the weather maker. Even though I've had some good results with autos, the lack of control as to when they start flowering to me is a major con. That and the fact that they aren't as potentious as their feminine counterparts has converted me to a permanent feminized seed user. It's all a wonderful learning process and I'm grateful for the folks that take the time to share their experiences and the knowledge they've acquired.

 

[Jon]

I've planted auto seed directly in 5 and 7 gallon pots before I got turned on to Emilya's methods. When I first started a grow, the information that I found pretty consistently said to plant autos directly in the final pot and so I did. Somehow I was able to carefully water (some of) them to the point where they produced a decent yield both in size and in quality but I've also lost seed from over watering. It wasn't until I examined the root balls of these autos that I discovered that they only filled a small portion of both the 5 and 7 gallon pots. Now I wonder how much better those grows could have been if I had first built a solid root ball and subsequently filled their respective pot sizes to capacity. I would guess that the stars would need to be perfectly aligned to get an auto to fill out a 7 gallon pot.

I've made mistakes with autos that slowed down their growth to the point that when they finally did start flowering they were not very big and did not yield much. That was on me of course but my point is that you need to know what autos are capable of and work with that in mind. I should mention that these were all outdoor grows so I was also at the mercy of the weather maker. Even though I've had some good results with autos, the lack of control as to when they start flowering to me is a major con. That and the fact that they aren't as potentious as their feminine counterparts has converted me to a permanent feminized seed user. It's all a wonderful learning process and I'm grateful for the folks that take the time to share their experiences and the knowledge they've acquired.

Hi @kikikopa...So if you like, check out my outdoor grow journal. In that grow, I have four outdoor autos. 2 are in Sohum living soil, and 2 are in Fox Farms soil getting GeoFlora nutes. Three of those four autos are in 7s. One is in a 5. All four will completely fill the pots, even the 7s. That was the point - to see if I could fill a 7 with an auto rootball. I have done it already. The roots on these autos are all the way to the edge of the pot already and they're not even well into flower yet. I can't push my moisture meter through the dirt without encountering roots immediately.

The point is, yes, it CAN be done. But yes, it DOES require VERY careful watering maintenance. I watered the ones in the journal by making little troughs around each seedling to start and making sure to water slowly enough that only the circular trough got filled. As the plant got bigger I extended the circle, using the diameter of the plant as my guide to circumference. This made for extremely targeted watering. I use Emilya's method religiously and that's what it takes.

BTW - I also began the seed directly in the 7, just to test my watering skills that much more. I do not recommend it and would not do it in the future, despite that I have been successful. It's too much unnecessary work that is too easy to screw up when instead all you have to do is begin like Emilya is saying in the Dixie cup and establish that root ball first.

Hope some of that is helpful. With proper watering there's almost nothing that can't be done.

 

[kikikopa]

You have obviously figured out that you are in the very best hands possible for your stated goal. Very clear communication on your part. Excellent stuff. I took a similar approach as you are as soon as I also started to get hip to this girl and her knowledge base, and I can't begin to tell you the difference it has made in my grows. Emilya's the best. Good luck!!!

That

Hi @kikikopa...So if you like, check out my outdoor grow journal. In that grow, I have four outdoor autos. 2 are in Sohum living soil, and 2 are in Fox Farms soil getting GeoFlora nutes. Three of those four autos are in 7s. One is in a 5. All four will completely fill the pots, even the 7s. That was the point - to see if I could fill a 7 with an auto rootball. I have done it already. The roots on these autos are all the way to the edge of the pot already and they're not even well into flower yet. I can't push my moisture meter through the dirt without encountering roots immediately.

The point is, yes, it CAN be done. But yes, it DOES require VERY careful watering maintenance. I watered the ones in the journal by making little troughs around each seedling to start and making sure to water slowly enough that only the circular trough got filled. As the plant got bigger I extended the circle, using the diameter of the plant as my guide to circumference. This made for extremely targeted watering. I use Emilya's method religiously and that's what it takes.

BTW - I also began the seed directly in the 7, just to test my watering skills that much more. I do not recommend it and would not do it in the future, despite that I have been successful. It's too much unnecessary work that is too easy to screw up when instead all you have to do is begin like Emilya is saying in the Dixie cup and establish that root ball first.

Hope some of that is helpful. With proper watering there's almost nothing that can't be done.

Your proverbial stars aligned and then some Jon! I now know that it can be done and I'll check out your journal for the juicy tidbits especially time frames. When my autos did grow well, I watered the way you described starting with a trough and moving out from there. I think that starting in a dixie cup is a great idea for autos. It's amazing how little soil is actually needed to start a plant. Are you growing indoors or out?

 

[Jon]

That

Your proverbial stars aligned and then some Jon! I now know that it can be done and I'll check out your journal for the juicy tidbits especially time frames. When my autos did grow well, I watered the way you described starting with a trough and moving out from there. I think that starting in a dixie cup is a great idea for autos. It's amazing how little soil is actually needed to start a plant. Are you growing indoors or out?

Ha. Well, I like to think that I aligned the stars by design, lol. The ones in the journal are outdoor, which I think makes them grow bigger than straight LED growing of them. At least that's what I've found. I have yet to find a downside to the sun.

BTW - here's another "trick" I learned about watering in Dixie cups. It's such a small top round area to water that people tend to just toss the water on, thinking it's just a Dixie cup. That's likely the natural tendency and exactly what I used to do. Once I learned Emilya, I began watering in the Dixie cup the exact same way I water in a pot. I practically just drip the water down the side where the dirt meets the cup, I barely if at all (except for the first three or four days) water the middle in a Dixie cup. Even in that small a container you can control the roots. I have come to believe that part of people overwatering in a Dixie cup is exactly because it's a Dixie cup. I don't think of it that way. I think of it as watering a plant in an 8 ounce pot. You know what I mean?

 

[kikikopa]

Ha. Well, I like to think that I aligned the stars by design, lol. The ones in the journal are outdoor, which I think makes them grow bigger than straight LED growing of them. At least that's what I've found. I have yet to find a downside to the sun.

BTW - here's another "trick" I learned about watering in Dixie cups. It's such a small top round area to water that people tend to just toss the water on, thinking it's just a Dixie cup. That's likely the natural tendency and exactly what I used to do. Once I learned Emilya, I began watering in the Dixie cup the exact same way I water in a pot. I practically just drip the water down the side where the dirt meets the cup, I barely if at all (except for the first three or four days) water the middle in a Dixie cup. Even in that small a container you can control the roots. I have come to believe that part of people overwatering in a Dixie cup is exactly because it's a Dixie cup. I don't think of it that way. I think of it as watering a plant in an 8 ounce pot. You know what I mean?

I know what you mean Jon and thank you for the "trick". I'll be whistling dixie too if and when I should start another auto grow. For now however, I'm still waiting for the ladies to finish all their water in the solos within a day. They will get a full 12+ hours of sweet sunshine today so up-potting should be on the near horizon.

 

[Jon]

I know what you mean Jon and thank you for the "trick". I'll be whistling dixie too if and when I should start another auto grow. For now however, I'm still waiting for the ladies to finish all their water in the solos within a day. They will get a full 12+ hours of sweet sunshine today so up-potting should be on the near horizon.

Nice. So you get as many hours of sun as you possibly can before you stick them back under the Zeus? I do the same. I approximate it at 10/10 of the 20 hour auto day, 10 sun, 10 LED, cuz usually I move them back in around 4 pm when the sun is low and only hitting them from the side. They're off at 1 am till 5 am for their four hours of darkness. So really I have probably 9/11 in reality, cuz there's only about 9 hours a day of what I consider to be prime sunlight. And I am constantly moving my outdoor plants around the yard as the day progresses, chasing that direct sunlight. Three moves a day for 10 plants, 7 of which are in various stages of flower. Think that's not a pain in the arse? I'm in a wheelchair. Trust me it's a pain in the arse. Lol. But....I love the sunlight/LED combination. I have come to believe it has a lot to do with both the yield and quality of my autos. My autos might not be the biggest yielders sometimes (although the Chunkadelic gave me 7.2 ounces of finished buds!), but they're always very good quality. And I only grow, with the Chunkadelic exception, autos that are very high in THC, so honestly, if you didn't know it, you can't tell any difference between my finished photo weed and my finished auto weed. I really like what you have going on.

Did moving your light make a difference?

 

[Jon]

I know what you mean Jon and thank you for the "trick". I'll be whistling dixie too if and when I should start another auto grow. For now however, I'm still waiting for the ladies to finish all their water in the solos within a day. They will get a full 12+ hours of sweet sunshine today so up-potting should be on the near horizon.

Hey K, btw -- if you have something you want to ask me specifically and it's going to be a lengthy back and forth, maybe it would be better if we had those discussions in my journal so we're not hijacking Emilya's with our lengthy conversations? She may chime in on this, I don't know, and she already told me it's okay, I just don't want to be too obtrusive, you know? So far everything we're talking about is relevant to the initial discussion and her journal, so I think we're okay, just something we should maybe be aware of that's all.

Emilya? You have a take on the above?

 

[Brudley]

Hi Colatl, and welcome to the forum!

I grow in soil. The soil I use is not special, although in the past I did make a 50 gallon batch of Subcool's Supersoil (his old recipe) and I used that supersoil over and over again for about 6 years before it was all mixed together with the rest of my non-supersoil, and it now is just a collection of soil with unknown qualities that I still use to hold up plants.

What I have done lately after moving to a new house, has been accumulating more soil so I can do bigger gardens. In keeping of that quest I have used the following combination in all of my containers for the last year or so. I am big into repeatability, so I like standard common soils available almost anywhere. I also use layering so that I am not mixing various soils together initially, but providing different layers of different types of soil for the plants to be able to take advantage of.

In the bottom 1/3 of my containers, I use a good supersoil, this year it has been Purple Cow. In the middle third of my containers I use Fox Farm Ocean Forest, a good rich organic soil. In the top third of my containers I like to use Fox Farm Happy Frog, a lighter and mostly sphagnum moss soil mix.

This combination of soils, especially the supersoil in the bottom, would make these containers able to sustain a grow mostly by themselves, needing one to only add filtered water to give the plants everything they need. Rather than take a chance on that, and so as to not wear out my soil to quickly, I choose to give external nutes too. After trying many different nutrient systems, I have found what has to be the easiest and most repeatable way to organically grow these plants, @GeoFlora Nutrients... check them out, they are a sponsor.

I checked out GeoFlora nutes which do look good. I have all separate dry amendments that I’ve been mixing into the soil but only top dress a few times. It seems like the pieces in some amendments are pretty large and would be hard for it to get watered in without excessive watering? I have a lot of Dr Earth stuff, FlowerGirl being one of them I use a lot.

 

[Emilya Green]

Hey K, btw -- if you have something you want to ask me specifically and it's going to be a lengthy back and forth, maybe it would be better if we had those discussions in my journal so we're not hijacking Emilya's with our lengthy conversations? She may chime in on this, I don't know, and she already told me it's okay, I just don't want to be too obtrusive, you know? So far everything we're talking about is relevant to the initial discussion and her journal, so I think we're okay, just something we should maybe be aware of that's all.

Emilya? You have a take on the above?

I really do not mind a few side conversations now and then, it just adds to the activity of this thread and keeps it within view of the public. I totally love it when people make comments as to how well the method worked for them!

 

[Emilya Green]

I checked out GeoFlora nutes which do look good. I have all separate dry amendments that I’ve been mixing into the soil but only top dress a few times. It seems like the pieces in some amendments are pretty large and would be hard for it to get watered in without excessive watering? I have a lot of Dr Earth stuff, FlowerGirl being one of them I use a lot.

Its not just a matter of getting those raw nutrients watered in, getting them broken down by the microbes rapidly is the problem. Geoflora and Dr. Earth solved this by bringing the microbes along for the ride, with a fresh set with each application. The other advantage is that both of these systems bring a few of the elements in partially already broken down so that they are ready to go and available from the very start... top dressing only the raw elements wont work if it takes 3 months to break down the element.

 

[Jon]

Its not just a matter of getting those raw nutrients watered in, getting them broken down by the microbes rapidly is the problem. Geoflora and Dr. Earth solved this by bringing the microbes along for the ride, with a fresh set with each application. The other advantage is that both of these systems bring a few of the elements in partially already broken down so that they are ready to go and available from the very start... top dressing only the raw elements wont work if it takes 3 months to break down the element.

As long as you guys are talking GeoFlora I have a question too. Using them for the first time. Love them. I noticed on my outdoor Raspberry Parfait this morning, for the first time, that the large, older fan leaves are beginning to be cannibalized. They're getting that familiar, "we're getting kinda close," color thing going on. I notice this is a bit more prevalent with GeoFlora versus my only close to legit comparison, Sohum living soil. I wouldn't say that necessarily, but Emilya, didn't I see your GSC grow experience the same thing, and didn't I see you talk about how it's not a sign of deficiency, but just a sign that the plant is basically done with those leaves and is casting them off on it's own as it uses them up? Cuz I'm almost certain that's what I'm seeing, and I followed it up with a trich check and found the plant is closer than I thought. It's on day 44 of a supposed 60 day flower. Not sure it'll make the 16 days based on what I saw (and posted) today. So I'm wondering if GeoFlora is "designed" that way? (Hope that's not a nonsensical question). Or is what I'm seeing a quality of organic nutes in general? It seems every nute you use you find that end color thing (senesence, E? LOL) expresses itself differently.

 

[Emilya Green]

The color at the end has more to do with cooler temps and the changes that plants go through as they end their season, but it should not have much at all to do with nutrition.

That being said, Geoflora recommends (good pro gardener advice) that you save the money and skip the last feeding, to let the plants go that last 2 weeks without additional Geoflora. This DOES cause a deficiency in certain macro nutrients, but not much of one because there is still a lot of unused (unprocessed by microbes) nutrient left in the soil, but enough that the plant can see it and starts calling on its reserves for the additional needs that we know a finishing bud needs. This causes the dramatic yellowing and even loss of leaves as those mobile elements are cannibalized, starting from the bottom and moving up. In that final 2 weeks, I have never seen this planned deficiency move any further up the plant than the bottom of the canopy before harvest. As long as it is being managed and not determined to be a problem, this deficiency is not so much a deficiency as an indicator.