What is this problem

[Bill284]

Hi bluter here are better pics the leaves are not crispy today

Her @agedmaster hope your having a good day my friend.
Can you get a clear shot of those buds.
As @SmokingWings suggests it looks like P.M.

Stay safe
Bill

 

[Verbalist]

Her @agedmaster hope your having a good day my friend.
Can you get a clear shot of those buds.
As @SmokingWings suggests it looks like P.M.

Stay safe
Bill

Does the problem still remain?

 

[SmokingWings]

Does the problem still remain?

I hope the original poster stops by soon but he has not participated in any thread since Monday evening. I am curious about if anything happened with these plants and the spots in the leaves that were brought up in the first msg.

 

[bluter]

i see more a camera blur than PM but i'd really hope he follows up with better pics

edit : it's the first and last pic that makes me wonder the most.

 

[SmokingWings]

i see more a camera blur than PM but i'd really hope he follows up with better pics

In the two middle photos in msg #28, yes, out of focus and possible movement. But the first photo and the 4th photo do not have the blur or any major out of focus. And, that makes the white areas on the leaves look like they could have splotches of something, maybe Powdery Mildew. Then again, it could also be the angle of the growlights and the camera producing hot spots.

After battling Spider Mites and then Powdery Mildew (inside and outside) I found that I notice the possible signs a lot sooner than I did before the first time I fought the problem.

 

[bluter]

lol i ruled the middle ones out because of the camera movement .. but still see questions in the others. i guess we're not throwing a lot of confidence ..

 

[SmokingWings]

but still see questions in the others. i guess we're not throwing a lot of confidence ..

The plants still look healthy and the amounts of what might be Powdery Mildew as still low enough that something can be done to save the harvest.

There are some products that can be used to stop the Mildew and are considered safe even for plants in flower. But a bud wash including using Hydrogen Peroxide in the first wash would be needed.

 

[AgedMaster]

hi all not been here for a few days. Definitely not pm as ive had problem from week 1 of veg buds sticky as And smell like lime i think it was not soaking rockwool in ph sollution. buds are growing nice still have leaf problem they are not going dry no more though just over 4 weeks left now hopefully they do well and leaves dont smell like rot either will post pics at end

 

[AgedMaster]

I will get better pics when i can hopefully today the reason pics are bad is because i used a samsung taco its about 12 years old also the leaves surrounding buds are completely fine not a single spot on them

 

[KingJohnC]

It is probable that your issue can be corrected and the grow progress normally.

I would re calibrate your pH meter ASAP before proceeding.

1) re calibrate your pH meter weekly to maintain accurate measurements.

2) in the photographs you have posted you have 2 issues displaying at cause by the same nutrient lockout and pH imbalance. Calcium deficiency and phosphorous deficiency.

3) there is a best order of operations to add the nutrients in, adding the nutrients randomly or in improper order will create a nutrient lockout.

Plants grown under LED lights require additional calcium and magnesium.

when mixing nutrients and adjusting the nutrient mixtures pH you must allow waiting time to approximately 12 - 20 minutes to allow the pH to balance after initial adjustment. the buffering effect of calcium excetera will first display a reading then pH buffer rebound shall change resultant pH of the mixture.

While adding the nutrients if you use a calcium supplement the calcium supplement must be added first to the water.

if using a calcium supplement in hydroponics do not allow the pH to rise above 6.3 otherwise the calcium will precipitate to a solid in suspension and not be absorb able by the plant.

to restore the grow medium to a neutral state requires pH adjusted water be slowly poured through the medium leaching out the salt buildup and other harmful substances. Measure the runoff waters pH to determine if further flushing is still required.

If you have a 1-5 gallon sprayer to wash and flush your grow medium .

I would flush your rock wool and hydroton grow medium with at least twice the volume of pH adjusted water until your runoff pH is 5.8.

All hydroponic grow mediums require flushing with clean water to remove manufacturing chemicals such as mould release agents and machine lubricants from the grow medium before use.

Mix the nutrients well into your solution.

the order in which i adjust and add nutrients is

initial pH adjustment
Calcium supplement
Micro nutrients
Grow nutrients
Bloom nutrients
final pH adjustment


You want pH 5.8 for hydroponic and soiless (peat moss and coco coir) and pH 6.5 for soil.

Here is a nutrient availability chart

Here is a different soil nutrient availability chart

Here is a cannabis leaf deficiency chart

here is the Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver and the Plant Abuse Chart

Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver: Pictorial

How to Grow Marijuana

you can remove the worst damaged fan leaves and open up the nodes and branches to the light.


Refer to these threads concerning

What levels should I maintain for my hydroponic nutrient, temperature, pH and TDS/EC?


What levels should I maintain for my hydroponic nutrient, temperature, pH and TDS/EC?


What is pH?

 

[AgedMaster]

It is probable that your issue can be corrected and the grow progress normally.

I would re calibrate your pH meter ASAP before proceeding.

1) re calibrate your pH meter weekly to maintain accurate measurements.

2) in the photographs you have posted you have 2 issues displaying at cause by the same nutrient lockout and pH imbalance. Calcium deficiency and phosphorous deficiency.

3) there is a best order of operations to add the nutrients in, adding the nutrients randomly or in improper order will create a nutrient lockout.

Plants grown under LED lights require additional calcium and magnesium.

when mixing nutrients and adjusting the nutrient mixtures pH you must allow waiting time to approximately 12 - 20 minutes to allow the pH to balance after initial adjustment. the buffering effect of calcium excetera will first display a reading then pH buffer rebound shall change resultant pH of the mixture.

While adding the nutrients if you use a calcium supplement the calcium supplement must be added first to the water.

if using a calcium supplement in hydroponics do not allow the pH to rise above 6.3 otherwise the calcium will precipitate to a solid in suspension and not be absorb able by the plant.

to restore the grow medium to a neutral state requires pH adjusted water be slowly poured through the medium leaching out the salt buildup and other harmful substances. Measure the runoff waters pH to determine if further flushing is still required.

If you have a 1-5 gallon sprayer to wash and flush your grow medium .

I would flush your rock wool and hydroton grow medium with at least twice the volume of pH adjusted water until your runoff pH is 5.8.

All hydroponic grow mediums require flushing with clean water to remove manufacturing chemicals such as mould release agents and machine lubricants from the grow medium before use.

Mix the nutrients well into your solution.

the order in which i adjust and add nutrients is

initial pH adjustment
Calcium supplement
Micro nutrients
Grow nutrients
Bloom nutrients
final pH adjustment


You want pH 5.8 for hydroponic and soiless (peat moss and coco coir) and pH 6.5 for soil.

Here is a nutrient availability chart

Here is a different soil nutrient availability chart

Here is a cannabis leaf deficiency chart

here is the Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver and the Plant Abuse Chart

Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver: Pictorial

How to Grow Marijuana

you can remove the worst damaged fan leaves and open up the nodes and branches to the light.


Refer to these threads concerning

What levels should I maintain for my hydroponic nutrient, temperature, pH and TDS/EC?


What levels should I maintain for my hydroponic nutrient, temperature, pH and TDS/EC?


What is pH?

Hi john u are correct i was putting nutes in random. even the bloom feed after looking i noticed my bloom feed needs a first then b hopefully it corrects. ive been feeding right past 4 days i flush with water ph 5.8 and run off spikes again to 6.5 on 2 and 7 on other 2. should i have ph'd the hydroton . something is making it spike but i dont no what also i had to flush with 2 gallon per plant

 

[SmokingWings]

Definitely not pm as ive had problem from week 1 of veg buds sticky as And smell like lime....(cut extra stuff)...... and leaves dont smell like rot either will post pics at end

I am not talking about Bud Rot. I have not heard of growers saying that Powdery Mildew on the leaves takes away the smell from the buds, either.

I did mention that the white showing up on the fan leaves could be caused by the lights but until you can take some new photos of the same leaves we cannot say for sure if anything is going wrong.

Also, any possible Powdery Mildew problem is something different than the problems that you brought up in the first msg.

 

[AgedMaster]

I am not talking about Bud Rot. I have not heard of growers saying that Powdery Mildew on the leaves takes away the smell from the buds, either.

I did mention that the white showing up on the fan leaves could be caused by the lights but until you can take some new photos of the same leaves we cannot say for sure if anything is going wrong.

Also, any possible Powdery Mildew problem is something different than the problems that you brought up in the first msg.

hi smoking wings its my camera i cant get light in tent with light off so i use my phone camera light but i cant keep the light on so it only flashes when i take photo

 

[AgedMaster]

hi again i cant get photos yet. ive checked runoff ph its spiked to 8.5 should i try doubling bloom feed. ive checked online it says there hungry or do u think i need to feed more than once per day. ive been hand feeding just before i turn lights on my root temps are 15c lights off

 

[Bill284]

hi again i cant get photos yet ive checked runoff ph its spiked to 8.5 should i try doubling bloom feed ive checked online it says there hungry

Don't do anything.
Wait till you have some current pics and we can see exactly what's going on.

Stay safe
Bill

 

[AgedMaster]

Don't do anything.
Wait till you have some current pics and we can see exactly what's going on.

Stay safe
Bill

the buds look ok ive done about 15 grows this is first time hydroponic going back to coco after i think they need 2 feeds per day in flower to keep ph down from what ive been reading

 

[AgedMaster]

right i just found this information online i think im right about more feeds this will help other people who have ph swing problems also it was me not pre treating rockwool at least i no its not rot or ph would drop

I usually get an email from time to time from someone who is experiencing wild pH swings in their hydroponic reservoirs. Growers usually tell me that their pH was around 6.2 one day and then 8.0 by the next morning or some similar story. This situation becomes a little bit frustrating as the grower does a huge effort to keep the solution at a certain pH level only to realize that after a certain time the pH of the solution simply starts to swing wildly between very odd values. In order to help new and experienced growers better understand the nature of these swings, what they mean, and how they can be eliminated for good I decided to write this small article on hydroponic pH swings and how variables different to plant feeding affect pH levels.

Let’s suppose you got home from work, prepared a new batch of nutrient solution and set your pH level at a very comfortable level of 5.7. By the next day, when you wake up in the morning to check your plants you find that the pH of your solution is 7.5. You start to argue with your pH meter, recalibrate, readjust your solution and leave for work. When you come back – to your surprise – your pH level is now around 7.3. What ? – you ask yourself – What could be wrong if you set the pH to 5.7 again and it again went up to 7.3 ?
–

–
The answer to these wild pH swings comes from an understanding of the chemistry behind everything within your hydroponic system. Generally these swings towards high pH values are caused by media which has surface-active basic sites which act like “buffers” and readjust the pH of your nutrient solution to their own “preset” pH level. This is very much like the mechanism used by soils to naturally control pH, only that this time the minerals are playing against you. Substrates that have been made at high temperatures which have basic potential – such as rockwool – show this kind of behavior. Other media such as river bed gravel also show strong pH buffering effects due to their natural mineral composition.
How do you end this problem ? The easiest way to end this problem is to pretreat your media before starting your crop. Place your media in a bucket and then add 1 liter of vinegar for every gallon of water. The media will attempt to neutralize the acetic acid and in doing so it will lose the proton capturing ability of its surface basic sites. Using a weak acid like acetic acid is better than using a strong acid – like nitric acid – because this ensures that residual acids within the media won’t lead to other extreme pH fluctuations. After the media is soaked in the vinegar solution measure the pH, wait a day and measure it again. If there is no difference between both readings then you can now wash and use the media – if there is – then you need to wait another day and remeasure.
Now basic media is not the only problem around. There are also wild swings to acid values which are usually a consequence of bacterial growth or dying organic matter. When organisms die or when they are being decomposed by bacteria organic acids – which lower pH – are released into your nutrient solution. Wild swings into the 3.5-4.5 region usually mean that the problem is not media but related to root disease. You should do a hydrogen peroxide treatment (check my articles on peroxide for more on this) and wait to see if pH levels stabilize after a while. In extreme cases, physical removal of dead root material may be necessary to correct the problem.
Last but not least, the problem can also be related with plant feeding from a very scarse volume of solution. If you are handling less than 1 gallon per plant of solution in your reservoir then it is likely that plants themselves – through the absorption of nutrients – are causing the swings. This is easily fixed by placing a larger reservoir and ensuring that you are always recirculating at least 1 gallon per plant of nutrient solution. Hopefully with the above guide you will be able to better understand “wild” pH swings and take corrective action whenver you see this behavior happening within your hydroponic crop.

 

[KingJohnC]

Hi john u are correct i was putting nutes in random. even the bloom feed after looking i noticed my bloom feed needs a first then b hopefully it corrects. ive been feeding right past 4 days i flush with water ph 5.8 and run off spikes again to 6.5 on 2 and 7 on other 2. should i have ph'd the hydroton . something is making it spike but i dont know what also i had to flush with 2 gallon per plant

Many years ago I was active in the aquarium hobby and was advised that if I should ever use the hydroton clay in an aquarium or pond that I should first flush and well wash the mould release agents and machinery oils from the hydroton otherwise these chemicals would severely harm and/or kill pond fish. The easy method is to place the hydroton inside a bucket with a flowing water hose and rinse the hydroton until any powder discoloration is flushed out. leave the hydroton sit in clean water for hours and repeat the flushing process for several times per day for days. Before use allow the hydroton to sit in pH adjusted water for several hours.

Mixing up a nutrient solution for your plants i can only compare to food preparation. Either making a batter or dough where if the ingredients are either not adding both in the proper quantity, order and thoroughly mixed the result can only be foul tasting gritty pockets of unmixed flour in the batter or dough. failing to maintain quality standards is why most restaurant small businesses have failed for decades and large chains who supply every component which are delivered pre prepared is how they manage quality.

The majority of plants adapted their growth to a narrow range of pH and humidity environments and do not do well outside of these ranges.
In this comparison the calcium is either not usable by the plants below pH 5.6 or above 6.3 pH.

I do recommend you acquire a PPM meter with PPM calibration and storage solutions to monitor and adjust maintaining optimal quality as this tool shall guide you in how fast your plants are up taking nutrients, how the nutrient mixtures pH and PPM are related in the plants usage. I readjust the nutrient mixtures pH daily back to optimum growth ranges.


The HM Digital PH-80 pH Meter is what i use, available from 420 Magazine sponsor Elevated Lighting Company

The large pH fluctuations your dealing with are caused by using a small reservoir which does not buffer pH fluctuations well.

One solution to mitigating pH fluctuations for a small reservoir is to add a top up reservoir which only adds back pH adjusted water into the nutrient mixture to maintain the pH stability. A top up reservoir located above so that it is able to gravity feed back to the main reservoir, uses a float plumbed into the main reservoir to re add pH adjusted water back into the main reservoir when the water level drops. The water in the top up reservoir is pH balanced to re adjust and buffer the nutrient solution back to optimal pH 5.8.

You may consider using a pH monitor with a long probe lead submersed in your main reservoir which is able to give you ongoing pH measurements.


In my KingJohnC's Green Sun LED Lights Znet4 Aeroponic Indoor Grow Journal & Review I used a top up reservoir to maintain the pH of the nutrient solution in the main reservoir.

Here are 2 photographs of my Grow Bay #2 showing the blue top up reservoir connected by a white hose to a float attached in the black main reservoir.

Please refer to the Nutes: What To Use & How To Use Them Tutorial

hi smoking wings its my camera i cant get light in tent with light off so i use my phone camera light but i cant keep the light on so it only flashes when i take photo

The solution I use for this is to use rope ratchets to mount a standard florescent or led light bar canopy allowing you to work in your garden without eye damage from either High Pressure Sodium, Metal Halide or LED lights. The use of rope ratchets allows you to lower the light into working position when maintenance is needed and allows the light canopy to be raised out of obstruction during normal time.

hi again i cant get photos yet. ive checked runoff ph its spiked to 8.5 should i try doubling bloom feed. ive checked online it says there hungry or do u think i need to feed more than once per day. ive been hand feeding just before i turn lights on my root temps are 15c lights off

In your introduction information you state you are using a setup - wilma dripper system, now you state that you are hand watering. Are the timer and dripper system no longer being used? Conventionally a drip system is timed with on and off cycles to boost plant growth though the wet dry cycles throughout the day.


fungus gnats will eat the plants roots and prevent the plant from up taking nutrients which can/could greatly stunt the plants growth. The best prevention from reinfection is to use reflective white/black plastic barrier with tape and cover all access points. Making slits in the plastic to position around the plant and sealing with tape. Small holes to the reservoir should be covered with small sections of window screen secured with tape covering entrance points. consider the use of a bug zapper during light hours as a pesticide free insect control option.

 

[AgedMaster]

hi john very informative much appreciated i think u was writing this as i was posting about small res your right im going back to using res i was mixing 3 ltr up every 2 days and hand feed 1.5ltr between all 4 per day i thought hand feeding would help im treating it like i use coco also never thought about light top of tent thanks i will buy a ppm i havent had the money but its extremely important like u say i might need more feed or less but wont no untill i check ppm also i didnt ph hydroton i did soak with my shower head in a fabric pot thanks alot pal

 

[AgedMaster]

also do u no where i can get a timer that do's minutes i only have 15 minute timers