What is this problem

If you have a bad infestation of root fungus gnats it can cause problems.
But I've never seen it in hydro.
Your ppm should be in the 1000 range say at week 3-4.
It would benefit you to get a ppm meter.
They are inexpensive.
We don't know the ppm of your plain water so calculating final ppm is difficult.

Stay safe
Bill
ok i will order ppm reader this is my first time in hydro i normally use coco no messing around my neighbour decided to do hydro it was hes first time i left him to it he didnt have a clue he was glugging nutes in and hes turned out puka they was 6ft tall
 
i hate these systems.

get your ph in check. it will mean refreshing the res - wilma - every couple to three days in flower. don't be lazy. clean the res out every once in a while as well. stuff builds up. gauge what they use and run that for volume plus a bit more.

don't worry about runoff ph. it's only your inputs that will matter. rising ph normally means they are eating. keep feed ph in check and keep swapping the res to keep it there.

this is probably ph and calmag. though proper pics of the the plants under normal light and not the hps will go a long way to helping figure it out. since they are in flower they are gonna be hungry too. there's a nute issue for sure, maybe other stuff, but not lethal by the looks. now is the time for bloom booster if you run them and know how.

make sure you have decent ph and ec/ppm meters. the ph meter is crucial in hydro. the ec/ppm not as much if you have a decent nute line and measure well. use syringes to measure with liquid nutes. ec/ppm is good to track though, and most decent nute lines will include targets for various stages.

most nute lines have similar target ec, many hydro growers adapt and run a bit lower depending on media etc.


fungus gnats are indeed an issue though it would be surprising if they got hold in hydroton. but it can happen in some passive hydro, i've had them in hempy. if they get serious enough they can threaten a run, but it's kind of outside.

purple stems don't mean shit. it's genetic in piles of plants. particularly in veg. usually ends by flower no issues.
know rastas who would look for it. blood in da veins.
 
i hate these systems.

get your ph in check. it will mean refreshing the res - wilma - every couple to three days in flower. don't be lazy. clean the res out every once in a while as while. stuff builds up. gauge what they use and run that for volume plus a bit more.

don't worry about runoff ph. it's only your inputs that will matter. rising ph normally means they are eating. keep feed ph in check and keep swapping the res to keep it there.

this is probably ph and calmag. though proper pics of the the plants under normal light and not the hps will go a long way to helping figure it out. since they are in flower they are gonna be hungry too. there's a nute issue for sure, maybe other stuff, but not lethal by the looks. now is the time for bloom booster if you run them and know how.

make sure you have decent ph and ec/ppm meters. the ph meter is crucial in hydro. the ec/ppm not as much if you have a decent nute line and measure well. use syringes to measure with liquid nutes. ec/ppm is good to track though, and most decent nute lines will include targets for various stages.

most nute lines have similar target ec, many hydro growers adapt and run a bit lower depending on media etc.


fungus gnats are indeed an issue though it would be surprising if they got hold in hydroton. but it can happen in some passive hydro, i've had them in hempy. if they get serious enough they can threaten a run, but it's kind of outside.

purple stems don't mean shit. it's genetic in piles of plants. particularly in veg. usually ends by flower no issues.
know rastas who would look for it. blood in da veins.
i was changing res every 7 days the past week ive been hand watering to see if that helps still empty tank once a week i give it a scrub with a sponge weekly also i measure with syringe and use ph metre i let a friend stop at my place while i was away and he got the gnat problem every summer i get hundred in a day on windowsill they dont go anywhere but window and die straight away i think the enviroment has activated there nest again ive tried treating with no success theres only about gnats 50 in 2 weeks in there i didnt have clay pebbles untill a week in
 

i was changing res every 7 days the past week ive been hand watering to see if that helps still empty tank once a week


run a smaller amount. gauge what they use and mix an according amount. you want to run dry every three or so days, then swab the res out, mix that amount and refeed. these things work a touch better to the dry side. similar to an auto pot.



i give it a scrub with a sponge weekly also i measure with syringe and use ph metre

good practices.


i let a friend stop at my place while i was away and he got the gnat problem every summer i get hundred in a day on windowsill they dont go anywhere but window and die straight away i think the enviroment has activated there nest again ive tried treating with no success theres only about gnats 50 in 2 weeks in there i didnt have clay pebbles untill a week in


what were they in before ? gnats are far more prone to soil.

you can flush the res and plants out with a h202 and calmag mix. there's a bigger chance they are actually fruit flies and not gnats per se.

the fruit flies would be attracted by the residue stagnant feed on the hydroton. they are way less harmful. you can get rid of both with the h202 flush. plug the pots and flood if you can.
 
run a smaller amount. gauge what they use and mix an according amount. you want to run dry every three or so days, then swab the res out, mix that amount and refeed. these things work a touch better to the dry side. similar to an auto pot.





good practices.





what were they in before ? gnats are far more prone to soil.

you can flush the res and plants out with a h202 and calmag mix. there's a bigger chance they are actually fruit flies and not gnats per se.

the fruit flies would be attracted by the residue stagnant feed on the hydroton. they are way less harmful. you can get rid of both with the h202 flush. plug the pots and flood if you can.
i did a flush with h202 i got 3% food grade i tested on one first then the rest i did that 4 days ago i feed once per day and get 20% run off i think he was using coco i do a 3 litre mix and feed just over half so 1.5ltre between all 4 dont no if thats enough
 
leaving the res every 7 days is too long if you have ph trouble. i'd shoot for every 3 and ensure the ph is stable in the res between feedings.

bypassing the res and hand watering should have corrected stuff if it was really off balance. will have to see the pics to get a further idea what's going on.
 
i did a flush with h202 i got 3% food grade i tested on one first then the rest i did that 4 days ago i feed once per day and get 20% run off i think he was using coco

leaving the res every 7 days is too long if you have ph trouble. i'd shoot for every 3 and ensure the ph is stable in the res between feedings.

bypassing the res and hand watering should have corrected stuff if it was really off balance. will have to see the pics to get a further idea what's going on.
Hi bluter here are better pics the leaves are not crispy today
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Hello agedmaster! Your friend @Bill284 asked me if I could take a look at here.

First of all I’m lil confused about your medium. I’m seeing a Rockwool cube (or at least a wrap of it?) and hydroton on top of it. Have you germinated your plants in RW? - Has it grown root mass inside the rock wool?
Because if youre having most of your root mass inside the rockwool then it could be simple as un buffered RW slab. Rock wool tends to have naturally very high pH, at around ~8. And that could explain why your run off pH keeps jumpin up. And then, 7 pH or above causes that roots can not absorb some of the macro- and micro nutrients. Which could explain the foliar symptoms. As they show up as a deficiency.

For example Phosphorus being best available for the roots in hydro between 5.3-6.3 pH. And having constant 7 pH could cause Phosphorus to lockout. That would explain purple petioles and those deep bluish, almost black blotches.
Rest of your foliar symptoms such as chlorosis, discoloration and dead spots could be just because of the nutrient imbalansion. Or actually late stage phosphorus deficiency has a similar indication, just googled. :cheesygrinsmiley:Leaves eventually dry down and die.
As the worst leaves looks to be mid to lower leaves we could assume that it is a mobile macro nutrient and thus that Phosphorus. a Phosphorus lockout.
I had a very sime kind of situation with my last DWC grow. Or at least I think it was because of the un buffered RW slab which threw pH the fuck out and caused massive damage on the foliage.

This backs up my hunch
also the leaves that are affected get a purple stem then curl up and dry out ive taken about 100 leaves off them through out the grow cycle
You may have had a P def from the very beginning if your Rockwool isn’t buffered. Your nutrient feed is fine if its 6pH. But your RW raises the pH and causes the major drift ups, and then high pH locks Phosphorus (and other micro nutrients) out. Google more about Phosphorus deficiency and compare them to yours :reading420magazine:


I thought that myself so i brought some calmag ive been feeding calmag for the past 5 weeks it made no difference also pics are trash cause i have a bad phone i will ask my friend to use hes phone thanks for trying to help much appreciated
Cal/Mag could make it even worse if there is any excessive amounts of Calcium.
Excessive amounts of Calcium decreases other nutrients availability, for example Phosphates.

So to start fixing the problem you’d first try to buffer your Rockwool to around 5.8-6 pH. As the plant has already grown it might be a little tricky… You could try for example Canna’s FLUSH solution to lower your Rockwool pH. Canna flush is 3.8 pH concentrate that can be used for example to wash used coco or other soiless mediums.
Then you could lower your reservoir pH also down to 5.5 until you start seeing progress.

Your dripping setup and timer looks to be good on point, prob don’t want to change those routines – youre having nice tight node spacing and your young buds looks like growing even tho youre having issues with pH.

Hope this helps at all.
 
new pics are looking good. i'm guessing you are past the issue.

the hand feeding probably corrected the ph.
i would stay the course, now is the time for bloom boosters if you run them. stick with a flower nute schedule. if you go back to using the res, swap it out every 2 - 3 days.
 
Hello agedmaster! Your friend @Bill284 asked me if I could take a look at here.

First of all I’m lil confused about your medium. I’m seeing a Rockwool cube (or at least a wrap of it?) and hydroton on top of it. Have you germinated your plants in RW? - Has it grown root mass inside the rock wool?
Because if youre having most of your root mass inside the rockwool then it could be simple as un buffered RW slab. Rock wool tends to have naturally very high pH, at around ~8. And that could explain why your run off pH keeps jumpin up. And then, 7 pH or above causes that roots can not absorb some of the macro- and micro nutrients. Which could explain the foliar symptoms. As they show up as a deficiency.

For example Phosphorus being best available for the roots in hydro between 5.3-6.3 pH. And having constant 7 pH could cause Phosphorus to lockout. That would explain purple petioles and those deep bluish, almost black blotches.
Rest of your foliar symptoms such as chlorosis, discoloration and dead spots could be just because of the nutrient imbalansion. Or actually late stage phosphorus deficiency has a similar indication, just googled. :cheesygrinsmiley:Leaves eventually dry down and die.
As the worst leaves looks to be mid to lower leaves we could assume that it is a mobile macro nutrient and thus that Phosphorus. a Phosphorus lockout.
I had a very sime kind of situation with my last DWC grow. Or at least I think it was because of the un buffered RW slab which threw pH the fuck out and caused massive damage on the foliage.

This backs up my hunch

You may have had a P def from the very beginning if your Rockwool isn’t buffered. Your nutrient feed is fine if its 6pH. But your RW raises the pH and causes the major drift ups, and then high pH locks Phosphorus (and other micro nutrients) out. Google more about Phosphorus deficiency and compare them to yours :reading420magazine:



Cal/Mag could make it even worse if there is any excessive amounts of Calcium.
Excessive amounts of Calcium decreases other nutrients availability, for example Phosphates.

So to start fixing the problem you’d first try to buffer your Rockwool to around 5.8-6 pH. As the plant has already grown it might be a little tricky… You could try for example Canna’s FLUSH solution to lower your Rockwool pH. Canna flush is 3.8 pH concentrate that can be used for example to wash used coco or other soiless mediums.
Then you could lower your reservoir pH also down to 5.5 until you start seeing progress.

Your dripping setup and timer looks to be good on point, prob don’t want to change those routines – youre having nice tight node spacing and your young buds looks like growing even tho youre having issues with pH.

Hope this helps at all.
your a genius how did u no when i first got my cuttings i had no way of testing as i didnt have ph metre i no that the rockwool was ph 7 because i ordered a ph checked nute sollution it was 7 now i use ph down to lower ph the first 5 days the ph was not adjusted my friend said he had a truncheon i could use but never brought it round i assumed that when i flushed it would fix the rockwool ive only just realised u have to leave rockwool in quarter nute sollution for so many hours witch i did but with to high ph not sure if rockwool would have increased ph when sat in sollution it could have raised to 7.5or8 do u think it will get better after next flush im not sure if the ph would have rised from what was coming from cube when soaked ive put hydroton directly in top tray a friend done about 30 like it they was all fine thanks for help pal they are clones not seed they was in this round pellet soil this is what they was rooted in
71eNnMfKyYL._AC_SL1000_ - Copy.jpg
 
new pics are looking good. i'm guessing you are past the issue.

the hand feeding probably corrected the ph.
i would stay the course, now is the time for bloom boosters if you run them. stick with a flower nute schedule. if you go back to using the res, swap it out every 2 - 3 days.
thanks pal very much appretiated
 
Oh yes sorry we were talking about clones.

Anyway the worst damage has already happened. Now you’d want to try get your pH stabilized. You could try to flush the RW slab couple times with about 5.5 pH water (or lower) and see if the pH drifting settles down.
And second you could up your Bloom feed. Give them phosphorus & Magnesium rich feed since P & Mg has a synergism. (Increased availability of one element boosts the other)


Phosphorus being one of the most important buolding block for dense flowers. Cannabis plants can thrive with very small amounts of P. But when it comes down to flowering - some plants might get lil picky, so Phosphorus availability is vital.
Phosphorus can be fed quite large amounts and it wont really cause any foliar symptoms.

Or did I get this right? There was a two problems, pH drifting and foliar symptoms?
 
Oh yes sorry we were talking about clones.

Anyway the worst damage has already happened. Now you’d want to try get your pH stabilized. You could try to flush the RW slab couple times with about 5.5 pH water (or lower) and see if the pH drifting settles down.
And second you could up your Bloom feed. Give them phosphorus & Magnesium rich feed since P & Mg has a synergism. (Increased availability of one element boosts the other)


Phosphorus being one of the most important buolding block for dense flowers. Cannabis plants can thrive with very small amounts of P. But when it comes down to flowering - some plants might get lil picky, so Phosphorus availability is vital.
Phosphorus can be fed quite large amounts and it wont really cause any foliar symptoms.

Or did I get this right? There was a two problems, pH drifting and foliar symptoms?
u got it bang on i was giving lower dose of calmag 1ml per ltr instead of 2 i will start giving 2 and i give them 10ml bloom feed per 3 ltr i will try 15ml bloom feed and 6 ml calmag thanks for advice i will also add calmag first as advised by bill thank you both and when i flush should it be with plain water or quarter feed if plain water can i give feed straight after
 
and when i flush should it be with plain water or quarter feed if plain water can i give feed straight after
If youre using beneficials such as Hydroguard, Canna zym or rhizotonic for the roots, then I’d apply that on the ~5.5pH flush water.

And yes after the flush let it drain for a moment then give a decent bloom feed.
 
@Bill284 said, "Never take a leaf off unless you have pests..".

Or mold/fungus. I religiously pluck water leaves that have any sign of necrosis caused by mold/fungus, during flowering. I know about the ways to avoid mold/fungus, and how to treat if necrosis has not set in, but if you're in this situation, makes sense to pluck.
 
do the neighbours count ?
Pluck the neighbors? Go for it if it will help.;)

Or mold/fungus. I religiously pluck water leaves that have any sign of necrosis caused by mold/fungus, during flowering. I know about the ways to avoid mold/fungus, and how to treat if necrosis has not set in, but if you're in this situation, makes sense to pluck.
Maybe it is me or maybe the angle of the camera in relation to the leaves and the light source but I doubt it. It looks like a start to Powdery Mildew in the photos in msg #28.
 
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