I have 3 auto plants growing outside in 5 gallon Smart-pots. They are growing in Sohum Living Soil (A bagged pre-amended, water only, living soil). I planted the seeds in peat and perlite seed starting mix in Solo cups and they all sprouted on April 30th. They got transplanted to their final 5 gallon Smart pots after their leaf tips reached the edges of their Solo cups. They were placed outside in the sun to harden off through May until the weather allowed permanent placement outside around 1st of June. I topped them once when they had 5 nodes. They grew quite a bit since transplant but seem to have stalled. They are stating to flower but are small and look sickly to me. Could the Sohum soil just be too hot? Did topping them stunt them? I don’t think I’m over watering them. I let the soil dry quite a bit between waterings and I’m watering them about every 4 to 5 days.
What is wrong with my autos?
- Thread starter jokerlola
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garybo
Well-Known Member
jokerlola, like you I'm new at growing auto's, so whatever I post may not be necessarily so.
I'm under the impression that auto's grow so fast that topping is a "no - no", since it puts them into a shock which while in that state, they have little or no growth.
Having said that, I remember reading a few weeks back that if topping is really wanted, than do it at the 3rd node.
I'm looking forward to see some responses from the smart growers here since my plants will be in that state in a few weeks.
Great post.
Not familiar with Sohum, looks like enough N but lacking other nutes maybe?
Yes, topping at node 5 is too late - by that time an auto's top has already lined up for flowering
I take out the tip at node 3 as soon as I can get the clippers in for a clean cut/pinch otherwise as you surmise, the plant doesn't catch up with itself before flower and the lower buds are severely diminished
As for remedial action, I'd try a dose of CaMg + PK, and possibly a kelp tea
You can also help by trimming off the very lowest popcorn and focus on the four main buds you are left with, should still be good for an oz or so
Yes, topping at node 5 is too late - by that time an auto's top has already lined up for flowering
I take out the tip at node 3 as soon as I can get the clippers in for a clean cut/pinch otherwise as you surmise, the plant doesn't catch up with itself before flower and the lower buds are severely diminished
As for remedial action, I'd try a dose of CaMg + PK, and possibly a kelp tea
You can also help by trimming off the very lowest popcorn and focus on the four main buds you are left with, should still be good for an oz or so
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- #5
When I was researching autos I saw several articles and several videos from so- called autos experts, saying to top autos only once for best yield. So I decided to try topping them based on what I was seeing and reading. Of course there were other advice like yours saying that it stunted them. After topping them, I watched some videos of certain “autos experts” that said that they used to top all their autos just once but decided to compare topped with non- topped and they could not see an increase in yield with topping so they stopped doing it. They all said that it didn’t stunt them but it didn’t lead to bigger yield either. After seeing those, wished I hadn’t topped mine but I don’t know if it stunts them. Hopefully some autos experts here will chime in.
garybo
Well-Known Member
jokerlola, from what you are reading it sounds like topping did not do any damage.
It would have been nice if you only topped one and compare first hand.
Thanks for sharing your growing steps.
Delps8
Well-Known Member
"don't top autos" is one of the first entries in the "Autoflower myths" forum of the site that specializes in auto flowers.
Topping is a form of high stress training and the objective of topping is to remove the apical stem to make it easier to manage the plant. If the apical stem is not removed, the plant will take on the shape of a Christmas tree, with the center towering over the rest of the plant. That makes the plant very tall and, second, makes the canopy very uneven. By removing the apical stem, the plant will tend to be shorter and bushier, with a more even canopy. An even canopy makes the plant easier to tend and it makes it much easier to light correctly.
Topping above the fourth node is what I've seen recommended. And make sure to leave ≈ 1" of the stem or you the stem might split.
The pictures are from my current grow - 2 Gorilla Glue autos in a 2' x 4' tent. Both plants were topped above the fourth node at day 21/22. Most of the colas are so heavy that they're falling over so it's hard to tell their height from the pictures. They're about 50". I should have added a trellis but thought "Nah, they won't grow that tall". Lesson learned.
The light at the front is a little Vipar Spectra XS-1500 that I added because two of the stems from the plant on the right kept falling out of the tent. I can't fit a bigger tent in my garage so I've got to figure out how to keep my plants from growing out of the tent.
I did not notice any slowdown in growth when they were topped (this is my third auto flower grow) and they seem to have overcome being topped quite well.
One "blinding flash of the obvious" - when a plant is topped, the apical stem is removed and the other stems will tend to grow in a circular pattern. LED grow lights typically generate the most light in the center of the fixture and have light fall off at the edges. And "the edges" is exactly where the stems from a topped plant will grow! I just thought I'd mention that so you don't make the same dumbshit mistake that I did.
They've grown pretty well despite my faux pas but it's been tough to get good light (<= 900 µmols) on the canopy. The lesson learned is to use a trellis and get the plants away from the periphery, toward the center.
Topping is a form of high stress training and the objective of topping is to remove the apical stem to make it easier to manage the plant. If the apical stem is not removed, the plant will take on the shape of a Christmas tree, with the center towering over the rest of the plant. That makes the plant very tall and, second, makes the canopy very uneven. By removing the apical stem, the plant will tend to be shorter and bushier, with a more even canopy. An even canopy makes the plant easier to tend and it makes it much easier to light correctly.
Topping above the fourth node is what I've seen recommended. And make sure to leave ≈ 1" of the stem or you the stem might split.
The pictures are from my current grow - 2 Gorilla Glue autos in a 2' x 4' tent. Both plants were topped above the fourth node at day 21/22. Most of the colas are so heavy that they're falling over so it's hard to tell their height from the pictures. They're about 50". I should have added a trellis but thought "Nah, they won't grow that tall". Lesson learned.
The light at the front is a little Vipar Spectra XS-1500 that I added because two of the stems from the plant on the right kept falling out of the tent. I can't fit a bigger tent in my garage so I've got to figure out how to keep my plants from growing out of the tent.
I did not notice any slowdown in growth when they were topped (this is my third auto flower grow) and they seem to have overcome being topped quite well.
One "blinding flash of the obvious" - when a plant is topped, the apical stem is removed and the other stems will tend to grow in a circular pattern. LED grow lights typically generate the most light in the center of the fixture and have light fall off at the edges. And "the edges" is exactly where the stems from a topped plant will grow! I just thought I'd mention that so you don't make the same dumbshit mistake that I did.
They've grown pretty well despite my faux pas but it's been tough to get good light (<= 900 µmols) on the canopy. The lesson learned is to use a trellis and get the plants away from the periphery, toward the center.
I nearly always top my autos, usually once, occasionally twice. I don’t go by what node it is, I go by how old it is. I wouldn’t top a 4 week old auto that was only at the 5th node, but I just topped 4 plants that were 17 days old and at their 5th node, and in a few days I’ll start LST. I usually get yield in the 5-8 oz/plant range. I’ve also not topped them and IMHO, there’s a slightly better yield in topped ones, just anecdotal, not scientific.
garybo
Well-Known Member
Thanks Delps8, great information, I assume growing outdoor can be topped as well as you described.
garybo
Well-Known Member
Thanks Phytoplankton for sharing some more of that savvy of yours, that advise will be utilized for sure.
Between yours and Delps8 tweeks, I'm gearing up for that elusive 8 oz bag.
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- #11
Delps8
Well-Known Member
You could top an outdoor plant but topping is a technique for indoor growers. The goal of topping is to create compact plants so as to not grow so tall as to outgrow the grow environment, and, second, to create an even canopy so that the entire canopy receives enough light from the grow light.
If you're indoors, those can be significant issues but, when you're growing outdoors, the sky's the limit, in a manner of speaking.
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- #13
I always thought that topping cannabis plants also created more bud sites, thus more buds. So I've been wasting my time topping outdoor plants?
It’s actually both, top them and LST train them to keep them small in indoor grows, create more buds sites indoors and out. I used to top and LST outdoor plants all the time back in the 70’s.
Delps8
Well-Known Member
Thank you for bringing that up. You're correct (about more bud sites).
Two stems grow in the place of the apical stem and each stem supports more bud sites so, yes, more bud sites. "Fimming", another version of HST similar to topping, results in four stems vs two for topping.
There are a few "how to" sites that cover topping and filming in detail.
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- #17
OK. Yeah my first grow in 2018 of 4 clones I didn't do anything but the clones were sort of already topped so they didn't grow like xmas trees. My next grow I topped once after reading and hearing about it. My 2020 (still all clones) I tried Fimming and that worked very well but gave me top heavy plants that needed a lot of staking. My last years grow I topped multiple times per plant and it gave me more balanced plants that didn't need stakes. I grow in 5 gallon Smart Pots in case I need to move them in and emergency.
Is there a good number of tops for potted outdoor plants or is the sky the limit?
Delps8
Well-Known Member
Hmm, maybe that's something that I should try. My plants are all over that tent. Well, plants and my latest addition, thrips.
I was thinking that a trellis might help keep them upright but if I can top them multiple times, that might be a good approach. When you did multiple tops, did you veg them for longer?
I’ve found that it’s best to do your topping in the 1st 2/3rds of the veg period. That gives the plant time to produce a lot of bud sites and also leaves enough time to get some size to the bud sites.
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- #20
That's about when I've topped and I've probably topped at most (last year) 3 times : The main stalk, then the next sets of new growth , then the next set.
