When to flip outdoors: advice please

[Trustyrusty]

These feminized Bubblegums have done ok growing outside in the Australian summer over the last 6 weeks after a slow start in coco without supplementary feeds. They are now in a commercial (Osmocote) organic vegetable growing potting mix (photo below) which of course has pre-added nutrients in it.

They are growing outside, undercover when it rains. I’m carefully supplementary feeding with the Nitrosol organic liquid plant food shown below, plus some neem oil.

For flowering I want to switch to a lower nitrogen fertiliser. First time grower here, so not sure how to tell when they have started flowering - just a few white pistils, or heaps? And how careful should I be with the supplementary feeding, before and after flowering begins, considering the potting mix they are in?

Comments or advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[013]

Hey trustyrusty,

Welcome to 420! I see one small problem -flipping means changing the light hours from 18/6 to 12/12 for indoor growers but for outdoor growers you are dependent on the sun and the length of the daylight hours. Don’t think you can change day-length huh? ha ha anyway your plants are both now in flower but only by a week or two so that’s all good. Just don’t move them indoors or anything.

Also it’s going to be in your best interest to upcan transplant into a larger container right away. The 5 gallon buckets will do as containers if weep holes are drilled out but remember bigger is better for soil grows. I’d prefer to have 10 or 15 gallons for container grown soil plant. Generally speaking soil with nutrients added is not great in the weed world even tho it says tomato veg and herb but hey give it a try!

my 2 cents but more people should jump in.

 

[Plant Dad]

It's hard to tell but that looks like it's starting to flower. A close up on tops of those main stems. Is it the end of summer there? They should start to flower about late summer finishing just before fall. I would agree with 013. They look like they need to be up potted to bigger pots quick. From a distance it does look like pre flowering. If those are pistols and not leaves thats pre flower.

 

[Trustyrusty]

Thanks guys.

I guess by flip I meant change to lower nitrogen content fertiliser, but get your point that this follows flowering commencement rather than initiates it.

We are one month from the end of summer here.

I repotted into those containers (which are only about one gallon, sitting inside 3 gallon white buckets) just a few weeks ago and would prefer to wait until I have a decent root mass before re-potting again. Unless you strongly advise against repotting after flowering begins?

Still wondering about supplementary feeding when I’m in a nutrient rich potting mix....?

Hopefully the photos below will enable a better idea of wether they have started flowering or not...?

Thanks a lot for responding and advice.

 

[Plant Dad]

Those are bud sites.... your girls are starting to flower. If you just up potted then your gonna have to ride this out. Outside grows should be in 15 gallon at least for future grows. They look heathy. Maybe get some blooming nutrients on there. Do a top dressing with some good organic Nutrients. I use Gaia Green Bloom 2-8-4 about now. I'm sure there's something similar in your neck of the woods. You should have some nice buds in about 2 months. Learn about drying and curing. Maybe the most important part of a grow. Good Luck!!!

 

[Trustyrusty]

Thanks mate. I have some blooming nutrients ready to go - same brand as my plant food above, but designed for flowering. Photo below.

So it looks like I’ll be leaving them in the small pots to the end. First time grower here so there were bound to be a few stuff-ups. Just wondering....apart from them becoming root-bound (seems unlikely in one month of grow), what other problems do small pots cause? If it’s lack of food can’t I just make up for that by heavy fertilising?

 

[Plant Dad]

Start with half dose. Then slide it up to full dose if they like what you're feeding them. Consider using fabric pots in the future too. The roots will be happier. It's good they're in those 5 gallon buckets to protect roots from sun. It can get pretty hot for those roots if sun was on those black plastic pots. Just trying to help... Not sure what you're aware of. Don't let your pot sit in run off water... I'm sure you already know all this. Plants look heathy.. could be bigger but thats because of the pot size.

 

[Trustyrusty]

Thanks for your advice.

White buckets are to keep black plastic pots cool. I also have insulation and newspaper wrapped around the black pots. I take them out of the white buckets to water them.

I think the main reason the plants are small is because I started late. Seeds didn’t arrive until early December, then I started them in coco without supplementary feeding which also slowed things down. They’ve only been in the black plastic pots for a few weeks.

Will defintiely consider fabric pots next time around.

With supplementary feeding and one month of summer to go (though it stays pretty hot here for a month or two after the end of summer, sub-tropical Queensland), how long do you reckon until harvest? Edit: sorry, I see you said 2 months above.

 

[bluenoserjoe]

Morning @Trustyrusty You have a ways to go but have a great start. Your plants look great if not a bit small. The plant dr. sure knows his stuff. The final plant size will have a direct bearing on the pot size. Best of luck with the rest of the grow. Summer there eh. I am looking out the window at a nasty winter snow storm, lookin like a day off work though.

 

[Trustyrusty]

Morning @Trustyrusty You have a ways to go but have a great start. Your plants look great if not a bit small. The plant dr. sure knows his stuff. The final plant size will have a direct bearing on the pot size. Best of luck with the rest of the grow. Summer there eh. I am looking out the window at a nasty winter snow storm, lookin like a day off work though.

 

[InTheShed]

Your "veg" nute is 12-2-13 and your flower nute is 10-2-8 which might leave you a little K deficient at the end. If it were mine I'd stick with the first one since plants use nitrogen right until the end.

Outside grows should be in 15 gallon at least for future grows.

I haven't found that to be true. I do pretty well in my 7 gallon pots (that one is 9.5oz dry).

 

[Trustyrusty]

Your "veg" nute is 12-2-13 and your flower nute is 10-2-8 which might leave you a little K deficient at the end. If it were mine I'd stick with the first one since plants use nitrogen right until the end.

Thanks for taking the trouble to actually read those labels. I did myself, ended up a bit confused. What’s the difference between W/V and W/W?

I’m a bit unsure what to do, the switching to the flower food came from a good source, but I hear what you are saying too. I might do both, good opportunity with two very similar plants to compare.

I think you are definitely correct about the K, I believe I want more not less for flowering.

 

[Trustyrusty]

This one could be better? But is phosphorous a bit low...it’s low in all of them....

W/V: Nitrogen(N) 14.0%. Phosphorus(P) 1.4%. Potassium(K) 8.0%

 

[PaleSun]

Hi @Trustyrusty, nice plants.

A thought: Get to know and understand the nutrient ratios in fertilizers. NPK Nitrogen Phosphorus and Potassium (K). Often written up front like 10-10-10. The rose food you have looks like it is high in Nitrogen and low in Phosphorus. This is opposite to what your plants need during flowering. Rose's needs are different than Cannabis. A ratio like in @Plant Daddy Gaia product 2-8-4 is more representative of what cannabis needs during flowering.

Cheers mate

 

[InTheShed]

What’s the difference between W/V and W/W?

I actually don't know, so ignored the second set of numbers.

This one could be better? But is phosphorous a bit low...it’s low in all of them....

W/V: Nitrogen(N) 14.0%. Phosphorus(P) 1.4%. Potassium(K) 8.0%

I'd say that's way too high in nitrogen.

high in Nitrogen and low in Phosphorus. This is opposite to what your plants need during flowering.

It turns out cannabis plants use a lot less phosphorus than the nute sellers are selling us on.

This is a pdf with plant analysis charts and graphs (with full detailed lab analysis) done on the macro and micronutrients found in three different strains of cannabis plant during veg and flower. It goes along with two videos that @farside05 posted on page 1 of his journal, where the information is explained.

The strains and analysis are from 2003, but I don't think we have modified the plant in the last 17 years to the extent that the nutrient results would vary that greatly today. Here are screenshots of the first three graphs:

What is most interesting, besides the continued need for nitrogen in flower, is how little phosphorus the plants are using compared to nitrogen and potassium.

 

[Plant Dad]

I actually don't know, so ignored the second set of numbers.

I'd say that's way too high in nitrogen.

It turns out cannabis plants use a lot less phosphorus than the nute sellers are selling us on.

This is a pdf with plant analysis charts and graphs (with full detailed lab analysis) done on the macro and micronutrients found in three different strains of cannabis plant during veg and flower. It goes along with two videos that @farside05 posted on page 1 of his journal, where the information is explained.

The strains and analysis are from 2003, but I don't think we have modified the plant in the last 17 years to the extent that the nutrient results would vary that greatly today. Here are screenshots of the first three graphs:

What is most interesting, besides the continued need for nitrogen in flower, is how little phosphorus the plants are using compared to nitrogen and potassium.

Doesn't make sense why Gaia Green is selling me There 4-4-4 All Purpose and for flower it's Bloom 2-8-4. I'm really feeling a bit stupid at this point. I didn't think I would have to become a chemist when I started growing. I've been following other hoping to land in the right spot. This helps tho. I will trying to add more N and K for my flowering.

 

[InTheShed]

Don't feel stupid PD! Nutrient companies have been selling that "MORE PHOSPHORUS IN FLOWER" myth for a very long time, and I don't know whether they decided that themselves or it was bro-science that they could sell into. Kind of like flushing and feeding water only for the last week(s) before harvest. Many nute companies still include that in their literature and products.

The science of cannabis growing is finally catching up and squashing the myths one at a time.

 

[Trustyrusty]

Good morning from sunny Queensland, Australia!

Thanks guys. Super helpful. The graphs roughly match the NKPs of the Nitrosol and and the Rose/Flower food above, at least in ratio of phosphorous to potassium (1/4 or less).

I’ll probably use both (the brown and pink, not the red with the extra high nitrogen) one on each plant, from now through to harvest. It will be an interesting comparison. I’ll post photos.

I just up-potted a few weeks ago into commercial potting mix (nutrients pre-added). So I’ll start with half dose.

Two more questions if I may. If I’m extra extra careful, could I get away with up-potting again in a week or so when I hope a decent root mass will have formed. Current pots are less than one gallon (4 litres).

Also, Re : Kind of like flushing and feeding water only for the last week(s) before harvest.

So is flushing not necessary?

 

[InTheShed]

could I get away with up-potting again in a week or so when I hope a decent root mass will have formed. Current pots are less than one gallon (4 litres).

Why not just transplant into the biggest pots now? If it's been a few weeks the plants should be able to handle it. The sooner you get them into bigger homes they happier they'll be for the rest of flower.

So is flushing not necessary?

If we're talking about this flushing: feeding water only at the end before harvest in order to make the buds taste/burn better by getting rid of "excess" nutes in the flowers, then not only is it not necessary, it isn't possible.

They've done scientific studies to prove it (a couple of them are linked in my signature), and flowers are nutrient sinks, not sources. The plant will never use nutrients in the flowers to feed the rest of the plant during starvation. That's counter to its evolutionary goal as a plant!

 

[Plant Dad]

Good morning from sunny Queensland, Australia!

Thanks guys. Super helpful. The graphs roughly match the NKPs of the Nitrosol and and the Rose/Flower food above, at least in ratio of phosphorous to potassium (1/4 or less).

I’ll probably use both (the brown and pink, not the red with the extra high nitrogen) one on each plant, from now through to harvest. It will be an interesting comparison. I’ll post photos.

I just up-potted a few weeks ago into commercial potting mix (nutrients pre-added). So I’ll start with half dose.

Two more questions if I may. If I’m extra extra careful, could I get away with up-potting again in a week or so when I hope a decent root mass will have formed. Current pots are less than one gallon (4 litres).

Also, Re : Kind of like flushing and feeding water only for the last week(s) before harvest.

So is flushing not necessary?

The problem with up potting now is shocking the plant and causing it to slow or stop for any given length of time. You only have 7-9 weeks left.I'm going to call out an expert on up potting and outdoor growing.. @SeniorMoments Please jump in here.. Although I'm sure many can answer with more confidence than I. @InTheShed is also a veteran grower.