Which seedbank has the best Jack Herer?

[Jackalope]

Very well done Deville, 2 thumbs up. Now all you need to do is review Blueberry, White Widow, Super Silver Haze ect. ect. You have the makings of a good book. There are a lot of strain books out there but nothing like the information you gave. Trust me I have them all.
With more and more people growing and even more new seed companies out there. Creates a perfect market for a book like that.

 

[GrizzWald]

Just a little more to consider nick... or not

Part of a quote from nevil;
Hz C male produced 5Hz1 which won a Cup or 2, this was a daughter of NL5 which won a cup. 5Hz1 when crossed with Sk1x HzC produced Silver Haze which won a Cup. Ben renamed it Jack Herrer. Somebody else renamed it Diesel. 5HzC X Sk1Hz C was not as good as 5Hz1. Mango Haze (5Hz122)is a full sister to 5Hz1 and these two were the best out of tens of thousands...

 

[CombatWombat]

6 Sannies Jacks I have on the go at the minute, running 12/12 from seed and I figure they're around week 2 of flower initiation. Did a bit of research on the strain and from a growers point of view the sannies seemed to come out top for me in terms of likeness to the original sensi phenos (thanks to its original JH heritage), stability and ease of growth. Feminized seeds were also a big factor. No problems with this grow, eats up the nutes happily enough, and sannie was a pleasure to deal with. Sent cash by mail and the seeds arrived a week later.

 

[Skunkworkz]

In modern, high test indoor cannabis, TRUE SKUNK #1, NORTHERN LIGHTS, and HAZE are the absolute, inarguable backbones of 99.9% of ALL the hard hitting, cup winning hybrids sold today.
Secondarily, Afghanis & Paki Kush in the mix.
What isn't really practiced: Selection. Especially from a large selection of P1 stock. People trust that people making seeds have made superior selection for them, and for the most part, the people making the seeds are working in spare bedrooms and closets, hoping that the people that made the seeds they're using correctly made the selections for them from a large P1 pool, which is rarely the case. Making seeds is easy. Breeding great seeds is hard.
As to Jack Herer seeds: Buy only from Sensi. They originated it, their P1 stock is Original and most importantly, legitimate. Anything else, simply isn't Jack Herer.

 

[weedsessif]

Nirvana's Jock Horror is amazing i grew 5 plant and all of them turn back good enough.. Just a little bit slow flowering plant but it is worth to wait..

 

[Van Stank]

I ordered some from Green House seeds and I will try growing them out soon. I will order some regular seeds from Sensi and try them as well and compare. Great info DeVille, thanks for sharing.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I ordered some from Green House seeds and I will try growing them out soon. I will order some regular seeds from Sensi and try them as well and compare.

That's about the best way I know of to become a Sensi Seeds convert. I've talked with people who grew both, and the consensus was that the only advantage to GH's knock-- err version was that the average yield would be higher.

BtW, I once heard a rumor that the Greenhouse strain closest to Sensi's Jack Herer was Greenhouse's... Super Silver Haze. Maybe you should throw some of those into the grow room, too. It would be interesting to be able to compare & contrast all three strains, assuming there was a good selection of plants grown from each one.

I do not know if this is still the case, but in the past if you lived in Amsterdam and your doctor wrote you a prescription for cannabis (as they can do over there), the odds were pretty good that your pharmacist would hand you Jack Herer - Sensi Seeds' Jack Herer. It was one of the first strains - possibly THE first strain - to be officially recognized as medicine over there.

If I could no longer access the real thing, I would probably get White Label's Jack Herer or even Mal's (Nirvana) Jock Horror before buying Greenhouse's version. I've even read good things about Homegrown Fantaseeds' version, although I think it might be more indica-leaning than I generally look for in a head stash strain. At any rate, assuming things haven't changed from years back, Homegrown's seeds should be inexpensive. Probably before trying any of those, though, I'd grab a pack of Jack Flash (Sensi's, of course) and hunt/breed for a sativa phenotype:
Buy Jack Flash(R) seeds online - Sensi Seeds UK

Luckily... I'm still covered :

But that's just me. I will be interested in reading about your grow. And it should not need saying, lol, but just in case: I hope you have a good grow and are satisfied with your harvest.

It just occurred to me that, for the cost of two packs of Sensi's JH, a grower could probably pick up the minimum amount of seeds (EACH) from most, if not all, of the other "strains having the same name." So if someone has both money and space, lol....

 

[Van Stank]

That's about the best way I know of to become a Sensi Seeds convert. I've talked with people who grew both, and the consensus was that the only advantage to GH's knock-- err version was that the average yield would be higher.

BtW, I once heard a rumor that the Greenhouse strain closest to Sensi's Jack Herer was Greenhouse's... Super Silver Haze. Maybe you should throw some of those into the grow room, too. It would be interesting to be able to compare & contrast all three strains, assuming there was a good selection of plants grown from each one.

I do not know if this is still the case, but in the past if you lived in Amsterdam and your doctor wrote you a prescription for cannabis (as they can do over there), the odds were pretty good that your pharmacist would hand you Jack Herer - Sensi Seeds' Jack Herer. It was one of the first strains - possibly THE first strain - to be officially recognized as medicine over there.

If I could no longer access the real thing, I would probably get White Label's Jack Herer or even Mal's (Nirvana) Jock Horror before buying Greenhouse's version. I've even read good things about Homegrown Fantaseeds' version, although I think it might be more indica-leaning than I generally look for in a head stash strain. At any rate, assuming things haven't changed from years back, Homegrown's seeds should be inexpensive. Probably before trying any of those, though, I'd grab a pack of Jack Flash (Sensi's, of course) and hunt/breed for a sativa phenotype:
Buy Jack Flash(R) seeds online - Sensi Seeds UK

Luckily... I'm still covered :

But that's just me. I will be interested in reading about your grow. And it should not need saying, lol, but just in case: I hope you have a good grow and are satisfied with your harvest.

It just occurred to me that, for the cost of two packs of Sensi's JH, a grower could probably pick up the minimum amount of seeds (EACH) from most, if not all, of the other "strains having the same name." So if someone has both money and space, lol....

I do have some of those GH's Super Silver Haze beans. Maybe I will make that and the Jack Herer my 3rd grow. I am going to grow some Blue Dream, Girl Scout Cookies, Northern Lights, and Cheese #1 on my next grow...with possibly a CBD strain thrown in the middle. I will enjoy growing two different breeders strains side by side to compare. Having no baseline on Jack Herer (never smoked it) I can go into it completely unbiased. I plan on doing that with a few different strains. Thanks for the info man!!

 

[Skullman420]

after a lot of thinking, reading and even more thinking. I finally decided to go for Green house seed Co's version of Jack Herer. The two final candidates were this one or the original from Sensi seeds. I went for Green house seed co because their version is slightly indica dominated and has shorter flowering-time.

Do however plan to grow the original at some later point in time. Am getting more grow-spaces to allow for even more experimentation

 

[Skullman420]

Excellent information TorturedSoul. Thanks! I didn't know that

I once heard a rumor that the Greenhouse strain closest to Sensi's Jack Herer was Greenhouse's... Super Silver Haze. Maybe you should throw some of those into the grow room, too. It would be interesting to be able to compare & contrast all three strains, assuming there was a good selection of plants grown from each one.

I do not know if this is still the case, but in the past if you lived in Amsterdam and your doctor wrote you a prescription for cannabis (as they can do over there), the odds were pretty good that your pharmacist would hand you Jack Herer - Sensi Seeds' Jack Herer. It was one of the first strains - possibly THE first strain - to be officially recognized as medicine over there.

 

[Van Stank]

after a lot of thinking, reading and even more thinking. I finally decided to go for Green house seed Co's version of Jack Herer. The two final candidates were this one or the original from Sensi seeds. I went for Green house seed co because their version is slightly indica dominated and has shorter flowering-time.

Do however plan to grow the original at some later point in time. Am getting more grow-spaces to allow for even more experimentation

I have a few of those Greenhouse Jack Herer beans as well as some freebies from Seedsman. Not sure which one I will try first. My brother just had a really nice harvest of Jack Herer and he kept it alive via clones for another go around.

 

[Jackalope]

People see high prices for strains of old and freak out. It must be remembered that Sensi spent years working and perfecting their Jack Herer. They bred it as a tribute to the man and what he stands for. YEARS of work is the key word. How much do you value your time.
With all the pollen chuckers and breeders selfing pheno's to make a strain. No one spends years making strains anymore. Price is all relative. Lower priced seeds are fine and needed. They let people with limited funds grow good weed. You cannot compare these to the great strains of old that breeders work so hard to create

Ehh, well... <SHRUGS>. Sensi Seeds sells 10 regular (non

 

[Van Stank]

I don't think its as much as the freak out over the price. My issue with with buying those seeds (as an relatively new cannabis user) is that I have only found them in 10 packs. I don't need 10 to try at 150+ bucks to see if I like it and want to invest 150 bucks into a strain I like. Hence the ability to buy a potentially good variety of the strain in 1 or 3 or even 5 packs is far more appealing. I would rather buy 10 single seeds for 150+ and get to try a bunch of different varieties to try the different relief from pain or high, than to buy 10 seeds of the same strain that I don't know if I will like or if it will give me the relief I want.

I don't mind spend 20 bucks for a seed if its good....but I don't want to have to buy 10.

Thats just my opinion on the price and quality. Sensi would have my business in a heartbeat if they sold Jack Herer is smaller packs, even at 20 bucks a seed. Until then, I will give greenhouse and seedsman a go and see if I like it that enough to possibly spring for the sensi variety.

 

[GrizzWald]

not the same.. not worth it.. people talk about unicorn hunting, show me a sensi jack Herer keeper that's been found in the last five years.. nobody can afford the amount of packs to hunt for it.. only ten seeds also?

 

[GrizzWald]

They'd have your business if they sold smaller packs and feminised or an auto would you still give them business if you got three males or two and a runt? You expect to find your keepers with three seeds you should 20 seeds at sensi prices, not 10..

 

[TorturedSoul]

People see high prices for strains of old and freak out.

I never understood that sort of thinking, and I never will. How much is a good cannabis seed worth? How much is a nice, heavy harvest worth (FFS!)? How about the tens, hundreds, or even thousands of clones that can come from that one seed? Forget all those potential clones... What if you pay $200 for ten seeds, feed five of them to your parrot, germinate the remaining five, and your environmental conditions are so sh!tty that you end up with four males and only one female? And you're a lazy, half-@ssed grower who has no interest in breeding, and only barely manages to harvest three ounces off of that one female, at which point the grower's stock of those genetics has vanished in a puff of bad luck, laziness, and piss-poor planning...

Last time I thought about purchasing a quarter-ounce of halfway decent bud, the cost would have been $100. Three ounces is 12 quarter-ounces. Therefore, if you had to purchase bud on the street - and couldn't afford to make bulk buys - you'd end up spending $1,200. And even a reasonably good example of Jack Herer is better than "halfway decent."

So is $200 for 10 seeds of a good strain a fair price? No, it's an amazingly good price - $200 for one great seed seems like a bargain.

The trouble, IMHO, is that forums like this one are packed full of the kind of people who'll drive past three real hardware stores on their way to the local ChinaMart, where they'll pay $50 for a heaping pile of shit that'll be in the nearest landfill before the year is over instead of spending $80 for quality merchandise at one of the hardware stores that they've driven past (stores that tend to be locally owned, BtW, and that are struggling to stay in business on scrap sales like that 29 cent fitting that they need to hook up their junk, that ChinaMart not only didn't tell them they'd need, but doesn't even bother to stock because the profit margin on the fitting isn't high enough for them).

One often hesitates to make statements like "Half the so-called cannabis breeders out there aren't fit to lick Ben Dronkers asshole clean after he takes a particularly gruesome shit," out of offending people's tender politically "correct" sensibilities. Me, I don't care two shiny sh!ts about political correctness, so... there you go.

Then, too, is an attitude that seems to be more and more common these days. I used to be afflicted with it, myself. If I had ten bucks, I wouldn't think, "Gee, if I save this $10 until next month, I might have $20 that I can spend on something better;" I'd just waste the $10 on crap. Half the time, if you come across someone that wants to spend their money on poor quality merchandise - because they can order that RIGHT NOW - and you suggest that they save their money and add to it later so they can buy good quality, they look at you as if you had just suggested they stick their head into the ocean and start breathing water.

It must be remembered that Sensi spent years working and perfecting their Jack Herer. They bred it as a tribute to the man and what he stands for. YEARS of work is the key word.

It's not just the time spent on that particular strain. For that matter, it's not just the time spent developing ALL of Sensi Seeds' strains. Like most people, I've heard the (bad) joke that the mouth of Greenhouse Seed Co. tells, about how he is the "king of cannabis" (I guess he didn't know how to spell court jester, lofl?). If anyone ought to be granted that title in that country, it ought to be Ben Dronkers (Sensi Seeds). After all...

Ben Dronkers
Ben Dronkers is the founder of the Sensi Seed Bank, HempFlax, and the Hash Marihuana & Hemp Museum.

Early Travels
As a young man in the late 1960s, Ben Dronkers worked on merchant ships which sailed from his native Rotterdam to various exotic locations. This was the beginning of Ben’s lifelong passion for travel. Later, when he decided to try his hand at designing and creating distinctive clothing for his own shop he travelled to Turkey, Afghanistan, and Pakistan to buy fabrics and discovered the advantages of hemp fibre.

Inspired to Collect Cannabis Seeds
He also bought cannabis in these countries. He relates with a smile, “I asked the farmers about cannabis plants and they laughed rather secretively. One of them gave me a handful of cannabis seeds as a gift and told me the seeds were very important. Naturally, this inspired me to preserve them, to learn about the qualities of seeds from different regions, and to collect more.”

Exceptional New Hybrids
By the time he returned to the Netherlands, Ben had assembled an extensive collection of cannabis genetics from all over Central Asia, Southeast Asia and the Subcontinent. Starting with these important building blocks, he began breeding his own cannabis strains and hybrids. In the early Eighties, an influx of new strains from the USA provided more gene-stock from which to create more exceptional hybrids. Establishing the Sensi Seed Club in 1985 enabled him to share his success with fellow enthusiasts.


Sharing the Knowledge
During his travels, Ben also collected unusual, beautiful and rare artefacts connected to the world of cannabis and hemp. As he became more aware of the history and potential of global cannabis and hemp use, he became more passionate about sharing his knowledge and collection with the public.

Along with his friend and fellow cannabis activist, Ed Rosenthal, this led to the opening of the Hash Info Museum, which would grow to become the Hash Marihuana & Hemp Museum, one of Amsterdam’s major tourist attractions.

More Cannabis Genetics
In 1991, Ben bought another seed bank from a breeder who had also been working with the US hybrids since the Eighties and the gene-stock of the two companies was merged to form the Sensi Seed Bank we know today. More new strains followed and the company went from strength to strength.

Reviving the Hemp Industry
Not content to merely talk about the wonderful things that hemp is capable of, in 1994 Ben Dronkers founded HempFlax, a company in the north of Holland dedicated to growing and processing industrial hemp. Over the following years he invested tens of millions of euros in this courageous and ultimately successful bid to revive the once-thriving Dutch hemp industry.

The Museum Gallery
In 2008, the Museum Gallery was opened, a much-needed annex to the Hash Marihuana & Hemp Museum. Ben is understandably proud of this addition to the Sensi family, where some of his favorite pieces are showcased. The Gallery displays Old Masters, painted hundreds of years ago, which depict ordinary men and women enjoying the smoking of cannabis.

Cannabis Entrepreneur
As Ben enters his 60s, it is doubtful that he will rest on his laurels. His dedication to the marvelous multifaceted plant cannabis Sativa L. spurs him on to new challenges each year. Though many of his ideas are now a thriving reality, there are always new possibilities to explore for this cannabis entrepreneur.

Bits from an interview with Ben (posted on his website):

Was it then that you took a sudden interest in the plant?
Well, technically it started a lot earlier. Growing up, my mother was always busy with plants, and she took such good care of them that they were constantly flowering . It is through her that I developed this love of plants. You really get involved in the entire growing process. Later on I developed an interest in breeding, crossing one with the other to develop specific characteristics that led to the classics which, for me, stay relevant and very important for the decades to come.

What led you to then start working with the cannabis plant?
At first I wasn’t busy with the seeds. In those days, cannabis cultivation was not the same as in other parts of the world like Jamaica, Africa, or the USA. Back then we were experimenting with the first indoor grow techniques, using cool-tubes, shaped as a tipi to try and get some buds. The weed was not good, but it worked.
Then I started bringing back seeds from different countries. To start off: Pakistan. That is when we started getting good results… Really good weed!
That was the big turning point… [it] was interesting and fun.

Did things kick off for you then? How was the first proper Dutch weed received?
The first 2-3 years that I grew cannabis in greenhouses, no one wanted to buy it. They didn’t understand it. Even in Amsterdam…
That was until I went to The Happy Family and Prix d’Ami coffeeshops in Amsterdam, and just forced them to take some of the weed in a paper bag, saying “Don’ t pay me if it isn’t good, but do so if you like it”. And when I finally returned to the Prix d’Ami to ask what they thought of it, the bud tender answered: “ It’s long gone! People keep coming back asking for more!”.

The American tourists knew what it was of course! But the Dutch had only seen brown Thai en African weed which was pressed into blocks and dried out. So when they saw green buds, they didn’t know what to do with it. They even called it “spinach”. That was, until they saw how fast it sold out. That’s when things started to speed up.
Very quickly, people knew how good the weed was, and they were getting so stoned that they would literally fall off their stools !

What did the authorities think of your new found passion?
Well… I was arrested a couple times. Many times actually. But in those days it wasn’t such a big thing. Even if you were caught with 10-20kg, you were released after 2-3 days.
But since I was arrested so often, I also got me to study the texts of the Opium Act, to search for a way to stay out of jail. This led me to discover that cannabis seeds were excluded from the ban. In effect, the entire cannabis plant was forbidden except for the seeds.
I then went to a very expensive lawyer to discuss this “chicken and egg” story: seeds are legal to sell but how can you obtain them if you’re unable to grow the plant? If seeds are legal, then growing cannabis plants for seeds must be too right?

The lawyer agreed with me and this led to the pivotal moment in which I was given legal permission to cultivate cannabis for the production of seeds. I then went to declare that I was going to produce cannabis seeds with police and the relevant agricultural Institutions and no one was able to object to my activities.
This was the loophole in the law which allowed me produce and preserve cannabis seeds for more than ten years without anyone really knowing about it. I couldn’t grow any weed of course, but you know how that goes…

These experiences led you to dedicate your life to the cannabis plant. What led you to take this decision?
For me, one of the unique properties of cannabis is the tendency it has to make people fall in love with it. You really form a bond with this plant. It’s a level of consciousness, you understand? Back in the day, I went through some very tough times. It was my connection to the plant that helped me through it. The plant itself helped me out of this dark period. And it was at that point that I decided to dedicate myself to the plant and breed cannabis as much as I possibly could.

The cultivation of the plant led us to innumerable discoveries: its history, what it brought to people in past centuries and its incredible potential for the future. This level of consciousness the plant has bestowed upon me is the main drive behind everything I have done, and continue to do. It is an important part of how the Hash Marihuana & Hemp Museum came to be.
We started from nothing, and we discovered something new on an almost daily basis. When the internet arrived, this process of discovery expanded even more, and it continued to do so as I started to meet like-minded people from across the world and made many friends, too many to name here. Naming them would fill up several pages! I truly believe that there is a common consciousness attached to this incredible plant.

When I travel to HempFlax in Groningen and visit the fields of hemp seedlings early in the year, it truly warms my heart. Seeing hectares full of these growing seedlings truly fulfills me and this vision I had about my connection to the plant.

Today, we still carry out this vision, doing our best to plant as many seeds as possible, literally and metaphorically!

Excerpted Q&A at the bottom of the interview text, the questions are from blog readers:

With thousands of cultivars and hundreds of seed banks to choose from, does Ben and Sensi Seeds feel at all responsible (for lack of a better term) for the variety in the market today?
I really feel proud that our genetics became a platform for an entire industry to develop from. It wasn’t just me though, the coffeeshops are responsible for making the industry what it has become. [They] were behind the first cannabis magazines such as Bob Warren, the man behind Highest Magazine, which launched in 1986.
When we started to sell the seeds, we also [sold] fertilizers, and books. All the authors came to us and most of them saw what we did and wrote it down and taught us what they knew in exchange. This was crucial to educating cannabis enthusiasts the world over!

Do you think there are still wild patches of cannabis that have yet to be found in the world? Where do you think you’d find them?
I know that for a fact . 100%. We are currently busy discovering and gathering new ones in Eastern Europe, and to gather the ones we know of from their original locations, which is proving very difficult in certain cases as some of them have disappeared from nature and it is a question of finding the people who might still have them preserved somewhere.

What is your favourite Sensi Seeds strain and your favourite non-Sensi strain?
My favourite Sensi Seeds strains would have to be Northern Lights, Northern Lights 5 x Haze and Jack Herer. For non Sensi Seeds, I’d have to say the Diesel and Amnesia strains.

Hello Ben, I would like to know if you have visited the Canary Islands and what you think of its geographical location with regards to cannabis cultivation?
Of course! I love the Canary Islands! I know them well and know a guy there who grew 5 Jack Herer plants there and obtained 1.5kg each. So the simple answer is, yes.

Hmm... Again, those Jack Herer seeds are looking like a BARGAIN.

Which strain did you last consume?
Jack Herer, in Malaysia! I have a medical prescription enabling me to do so here mind you.

At this point, I feel that I should mention... Ben Dronkers' work and activism is a large part of why a doctor in Amsterdam has the ability to write their patients prescriptions for cannabis. The quality of his strains probably has a lot to do with why many of those prescriptions state "Jack Herer," rather than the generic term "cannabis."

It's not like he's some pollen chucker that is involved in the industry because he figures it's an easy way to get rich, lol. I figure someone who has paid his dues to this extent could long ago have decided to sit back and collect people's money (and then spend it all on himself). Luckily, this is not Ben's way.

Speaking of pollen chuckers, those breeders of mutts... What are they going to do when the old masters of their craft are dead and gone, and those 'chuckers no longer have world-class strains to buy packets of seeds from, cross, and crap out the resulting F₁ (often, from F₁ parents) ripoffs by the truckload?

What happened to spending years selecting just the right parent stock? What happened to having multiple sets of them? For that matter, what happened to true "natural" breeding altogether? Look at even so-called decent, established companies like Greenhouse Seed Co. - all you can buy from them are feminized seeds because, hey, it's a lot cheaper and easier to just keep a few female plants (since all it takes to get one of those is to buy a packet of seeds :rolleyes3 ), hit them with hormones and/or chemicals, let them self-seed, and hawk them to their marks I mean customers as if they were somehow a good thing.

BtW, on Sensi Seeds' own website, Jack Herer is currently €163.00 for ten seeds. That's about $182.83. Still a bargain, IMHO - but not, perhaps, "cheap." But I also see seeds for €14 to €20 or thereabouts. Sure, some are under their "economy brand" label. But there are also plenty of the classics (and a few newer strains), and they achieved classic status by being what my buddy would call "dam fine dope." Having bowed to the inevitible customer interest, you can now purchase feminized seeds, even auto-flowering strains (NOTE: Some strains are still only available in regular (non-feminized) seeds, because they come from normal - a male and a female - parents).

I also see several "mixed packs" of seeds. Feminized Mix seeds, €43 ($48.24) for ten, €80.01 for 20, and €24.01 for five. Another set of feminized mix are a little more expensive. Regular Outdoor Mix packs are €48 for 25 seeds. Indoor Mix (again, regular) is €61 for 25 seeds. Et cetera.

It's not like walking into a Rolls Royce showroom, where even the cheapest available product is likely to require the liquidation of one's stock portfolio :rolleyes3 .

Yeah, it's a business. One cannot remain in business if one does not make a profit. And there's overhead to consider... Sometimes, overhead consists of a retail store (or two), a professional breeding operation, a museum and information center, a HEMP awareness and activism orginazation, funding the search for "new" unmolested strains around the world, et cetera.

I guess if someone is buying a few packs of others' prize-winning strains, growing them out, picking the best looking one, and hitting it with chemicals to make it self-seed (lather/rinse/repeat...), and your retail establishment is a website you rent from GoDaddy for a relative few bucks each month, well, your overhead is going to be lower. And if that well runs dry, they can always try becoming used car salesmen. After all, it's about the same, isn't it? Easy money, not much real work to speak of, and - like P.T. Barnum said - there's a sucker born every minute.

I don't think its as much as the freak out over the price. My issue with with buying those seeds (as an relatively new cannabis user) is that I have only found them in 10 packs. I don't need 10 to try at 150+ bucks to see if I like it and want to invest 150 bucks into a strain I like. Hence the ability to buy a potentially good variety of the strain in 1 or 3 or even 5 packs is far more appealing. I would rather buy 10 single seeds for 150+ and get to try a bunch of different varieties to try the different relief from pain or high, than to buy 10 seeds of the same strain that I don't know if I will like or if it will give me the relief I want.

First, as I mentioned above, several of Sensi Seeds products are available in varying quantities. Second (again, as previously mentioned), quality genetics are a bargain at pretty much any price. Finally... You're not buying a bunch of clones, so you're going to see variability in most strains (at least ones that aren't produced via unnatural means). You'll even see some variability in IBL strains. Why on earth anyone would voluntarily restrict their experience of a new strain to as few examples as humanly possible is utterly beyond me. Back in the day, I bought some Neville's Haze seeds. I don't remember, exactly, but 100 is probably in the ballpark. I grew most of them in the search for "that special ONE." And I found it, lol (actually ended up with two keepers that turned out to be best... for ME). Might have been the best I ever got from seeds that I purchased retail. Would I have found those two if I'd only have bought one pack? Two? Three? Would I have still ended up with something decent? Sure. Was the difference between "something decent" and "wow, man, just... wow!" worth MORE than the few hundred bucks I spent on extra packs? Bet your f*cking ass!

Sensi would have my business in a heartbeat if they sold Jack Herer is smaller packs, even at 20 bucks a seed. Until then, I will give greenhouse and seedsman a go and see if I like it that enough to possibly spring for the sensi variety.

Lol. I'd go down to Davis Hardware (owned and operated by the same family since 1922) to buy a water heater if they weren't so doggone expensive. But I'm going to get it at Lowes, instead. It's much cheaper and the warranty is almost as long. And I know that warranty is good, because I bought my last water heater at Lowes and when it started pouring water all over my basement the following year, I took a day off work, shut my water off, grabbed my torch and tubing cutter, unhooked the water heater, had my buddy take off work so he could help me haul it up the basement stairs and into his truck, and took it back. The kid at Lowes fixed me right up with a replacement water heater. Even was nice enough to remind me that I'd need to replace some of the things I wrecked removing the broken tank, and then took my money for them. And when THAT water heater's not-user-servicable burner assembly failed a couple years later, I went through the entire process all over again and they gave me another cheap piece of-- err, another water heater. I was so happy when that one lasted the entire warranty period (expired last Tuesday). Yep, Lowes sure honors their warranties. Who knows if Davis Hardware honors theirs, lol? After all, my buddy who bought one there didn't even get to try his warranty out, because his water heater has been working fine for the last 23 years other than when his burner quit firing after the first twelve years or so and he had to run back to the hardware store for a $2 gas orifice. So, you know, who knows about their warranty down there at the old hardware store, really? I stopped in there this morning and asked how many people got to use their water heater warranties, and the guy that waited on me said that he thought that one or two might have, but he said that was right after he started working there right out of high school and he must be almost 60 now, so he might be misremembering. I mean... he still seemed fairly sharp and all, having done this kind of stuff for the last 40 years or so, but when I told him that the fittings I needed to hook a new water heater up were just about the exact size that my buddy said his girlfriend's finger would probably fit in them, he couldn't even tell me for sure what size fittings I needed. Said he was getting ready to go on his lunch break and that he'd be happy to follow me home and go down into my basement with a sack full of fittings so he could determine exactly what I needed and to show me the best way to hook everything up. But... IDK, that sort of sounded like one of those "high pressure sales tactics" that I've heard about. Those kids over at Lowes, not one of them has ever offered to go to my basement just to see if he could make an extra dollar selling me a fitting or two. And when I tried explaining to him what my buddy said about the size fittings I needed, the kid said it didn't matter, just grab whatever and if it didn't fit, drive on back and get in line at the returns desk behind everyone else and they'd be happy to give me my money back so that I could try a different size. When I mentioned that I didn't want to cause them extra work, he laughed and said he'd be there all day unless he decided to quit and try a different line of work - and that even if that happened, there'd be someone there to help me, because people were quitting and new kids getting hired every day. Said a lot of people end up coming back five, ten, even more times before they got things straight. You just don't get to meet new people down at the hardware store like you do every time you walk into Lowes; seems like everyone working at the hardware store has been working there since I was still in grade school way back when. Besides, the water heater at Lowes is almost $40 cheaper - what a bargain! Yep, I think I'll definitely buy my new water heater at Lowes instead of that hardware store. They must be doing something right at Lowes. I heard the CEO (they say that's like the owner, only fancier don't ya know) just got paid a $34 million bonus last year for streamlining their workforce by 27%. The owner of the hardware store, Ed Davis, OtOH... Boy, I don't know. He must be barely making ends meet right now - the guy's 85 years old if he's a day and I saw him when I was in there and he was threading pipe for someone when I walked in, and within a few minutes he was out back helping one of the employees unload a couple hundred bales of straw off a truck. Can't even afford a suit, just wearing a pair of jeans and a t-shirt like me. And when I interrupted him as he was scraping cow sh!t off his boots from the cattle truck that delivered the straw and asked him if he'd point me to a clerk that would sell me a pack of matches for a nickel in case I needed to light my new water heater's pilot light, he stopped what he was doing and went and got a pack, himself. Guess they can't afford to hire someone just to stand there like they can at Lowes. And then he tried to tell me that modern water heaters had a push-button lighter. IDK, it sounded like it made sense, but maybe he just didn't want to spend the time to ring me up or something. Yes, that turned out to be it, just doggone lazy. I knew it when he just handed me the book of matches and said, "No charge." Lazy, that's got to be it. Why, at Lowes they don't shirk their duty by giving you anything; they're always ready to do their job by taking your money. I guess you get that personal touch at Lowes. Whoever you find, when you find someone to wait on you, they'll take your money. And if they're on their way to do something more important like go outside and smoke their morning cigarette, they'll tell you which direction to walk where you'll be most likely to find someone who can wait on you.

Err, yes, that was made up. But I've worked in that particular industry. I've seen someone spend their entire long life trying to improve their business and provide quaility merchandise - and service - to their customers. And, yes, I saw someone leave to go to a potential customer's house in order to find out exactly what they needed, so as to save the person time, gas money, and hassle. Except it wasn't during a break, and it wasn't some employee, it was the owner (and she ended up making two trips, one to see what was needed, and one to go do the work of installation/repair. Gross amount of that sale... less than $15. Profit? Her vehicle got about 11 miles per gallon, lol, what profit? Who in her old age when the average person would be taking it easy - or pushing up daisies in a cemetary - was still putting in her regular 54 hours each and every week, measuring and cutting plastic gas line out in the 100°F+ warehouse, unloading deliveries, patiently explaining to drunks and halfwits what they needed and how to use the stuff they bought. Loaning tools and hoping those tools one day came back. Getting grief from people because she charged them 89 cents for something that they needed to install that $1200 applicance they'd just bought at Lowes, when the people only wanted to pay 65 cents for it ("How do you stay in business charging people that much?" And she'd just smile and say that if they'd bought the appliance at her store - or the one they actually needed, for $800, instead - that she'd have given them the part they were griping about.) No few of those people had big bills at the hardware store on accounts that they'd opened with a handshake. Only had $10 to pay on that this month after redoing their kitchen and all, but at least they stopped by to spend less than a dollar for something. Oh, and to b!tch about the price. And... wait six months, a year, whatever, and see them back for another cheap part/fitting when they had to replace the junk they bought elsewhere. It'd be funny if not for the fact of having to watch the woman work so hard just so she didn't have to lay off one of her employees or stop carrying quality merchandise. That made it not so funny.

What you might consider doing, if you only have a certain amount of money this month and are, IDK, genetically incapable of just sticking it back in your pocket until next month when you'll have more money, is to take a look at a breeder such as Sensi Seeds' website. Take a good, long, look. You'll find that many seeds are downright inexpensive. Try something out of that set of choices that you CAN afford. Not only will you almost be guaranteed to end up having a nice grow and a nice harvest... by the time that harvest has been dried, cured, and consumed... You'll end up purchasing some of the higher-priced strains from the same breeder for your next go-round.

I'm just rambling. Buy what you want. Who knows, maybe you'll find yourself a "bargain."

 

[Van Stank]

Then spend your money on it dude, don't be pissed at those of us that choose not to and look for a viable option. Perhaps you have money to burn, great, good for you. Many of us don't and with those options (only 10 packs for Jack herer) aren't something we are willing to do. There are plenty of other good cannabis strains out there that we can spend our money on. Your justification isn't ours.

 

[Skunkworkz]

I don't think its as much as the freak out over the price. My issue with with buying those seeds (as an relatively new cannabis user) is that I have only found them in 10 packs. I don't need 10 to try at 150+ bucks to see if I like it and want to invest 150 bucks into a strain I like. Hence the ability to buy a potentially good variety of the strain in 1 or 3 or even 5 packs is far more appealing. I would rather buy 10 single seeds for 150+ and get to try a bunch of different varieties to try the different relief from pain or high, than to buy 10 seeds of the same strain that I don't know if I will like or if it will give me the relief I want.

I don't mind spend 20 bucks for a seed if its good....but I don't want to have to buy 10.

Thats just my opinion on the price and quality. Sensi would have my business in a heartbeat if they sold Jack Herer is smaller packs, even at 20 bucks a seed. Until then, I will give greenhouse and seedsman a go and see if I like it that enough to possibly spring for the sensi variety.

Running, and selecting from, under ten seeds is a joke. Really, selecting from 20 is frequently a minimum to have a vaguely decent shot at finding a good mother. There's HUGE variation in phenotypes in poly-hybrid seeds, and "trying" one seed is in no way shape or form remotely indicative of the pool as a whole.
A friend of mine recently ran about 150 seeds from about 15 different breeders, including many you'd be familiar with, looking for exceptional selections. After culling males & inferior plants he was left with 48 females. He ran those females under 12,000w of HPS under ideal conditions. Can you guess how many females he found that were worthy of a second look?
He found ONE. And it wasn't a clear, superior winner, it was worth a "second look," which he's doing now. Recap: 150 seeds, 48 females, no clear "unicorns" found. So know your math- You have a better chance at winning the lottery than finding a "WOW! HOLY SHIT!" Grade keeper mother plant from 1-3 seeds. Of course, the retail inference is that "every plant is a winner!" but that's simply horseshit. Of course, the lower your standards, or experience,the higher probability you'll be satisfied. Anyone who grows a single run of 1-5 seeds of any given hybrid, hasn't really grown that hybrid. As to Jack Herer, it has such massive variance that to find a super whoop ass mom you'd really want to do multiple runs of at least 8-10 selected females before you could really make an informed decision on which one to keep, if any. And nobody wants to put in that kind of time any more. It's sad, really. Because marijuana growing isn't fast food, the best results, and the best growers, take a fuckton of time.

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@TorturedSoul: Fantastic post man. Absolutely Grade-Fuckin-A .

 

[Van Stank]

Running, and selecting from, under ten seeds is a joke. Really, selecting from 20 is frequently a minimum to have a vaguely decent shot at finding a good mother. There's HUGE variation in phenotypes in poly-hybrid seeds, and "trying" one seed is in no way shape or form remotely indicative of the pool as a whole.
A friend of mine recently ran about 150 seeds from about 15 different breeders, including many you'd be familiar with, looking for exceptional selections. After culling males & inferior plants he was left with 48 females. He ran those females under 12,000w of HPS under ideal conditions. Can you guess how many females he found that were worthy of a second look?
He found ONE. And it wasn't a clear, superior winner, it was worth a "second look," which he's doing now. Recap: 150 seeds, 48 females, no clear "unicorns" found. So know your math- You have a better chance at winning the lottery than finding a "WOW! HOLY SHIT!" Grade keeper mother plant from 1-3 seeds. Of course, the retail inference is that "every plant is a winner!" but that's simply horseshit. Of course, the lower your standards, or experience,the higher probability you'll be satisfied. Anyone who grows a single run of 1-5 seeds of any given hybrid, hasn't really grown that hybrid. As to Jack Herer, it has such massive variance that to find a super whoop ass mom you'd really want to do multiple runs of at least 8-10 selected females before you could really make an informed decision on which one to keep, if any. And nobody wants to put in that kind of time any more. It's sad, really. Because marijuana growing isn't fast food, the best results, and the best growers, take a fuckton of time.

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Then you go buy 200 seeds and have at it. I am not looking for a unicorn. I am looking for something that helps relieve my back pain so I can sleep at night. I don't smoke to get high. I just want a good performing pain killer. I am not going to go grow 200 plus seeds to find a unicorn. If I can find a plant from some other seed breeder that gives that to me, I am cool with it. Thats why I grow. Prior to my back issue, I smoked 4 times in 25+ years. So maybe for you cannabis fanatics what you talk about makes sense....to me, it doesn't. I get decent results from ATF, and Chemdawg 4. I am growing a Blueberry to try. I don't give a rats ass if its a good mother or bad one. Will it produce bud that serves as my medicine....thats all I care about. If it does, then I am willing to make feminized seeds and have a perpetual availability of medicine. There are many of us on here that aren't looking for the mythical unicorn, just decent bud or medicine that we don't have to pay Jay the street dealer for. Not sure how to make it much simpler to understand. Again, I respect the points of view that you guys represent and if that's your thing, then great. For many of us, its not ours.

 

[GrizzWald]

Nevil Schoenmakers, the original king, the real king and the only king (his not dead, lol) his the only reason sensi is anything.. no mention in their bible blog