Advanced Nutrients: ProMix HP and PPM?

[Chuckeye]

Greetings,

I am just finishing up an Early Miss Autoflower from CropKings BC. First grow in 20+ years

Advanced Nutrient ph perfect Grow/Micro/Bloom/Big Bud/Sensizim/B-52.

I had been slowly sneaking up on max nutrients, NOT. I was at roughly 50% of their recommended amounts for flowering.

Blew right through and five hours after the fourth feeding in four days saw this, pic below.

A quick flush and 1/4 nutrients and Betty is chugging along...

If I had a PPM meter could I have avoided this mistake, barring any other issues ? And what reading should I be aiming for ?

Here she is at 96 days, 600w MH/HPS, temps 68-78 F, 2 gallon pot, light 20-24" from canopy.

Hard well water @ 7.2 ph. Mix nutrients, ph is ~ 6.8. Ph down to 6.4-6.5. 2 L's was watering to run off but now she takes it all every day with just enough run off to wet the saucer.

 

[PE636]

Not sure what ppm you want to aiming for, but that looks to be a pretty big plant for only a 2 gallon pot.

 

[Chuckeye]

Not sure what ppm you want to aiming for, but that looks to be a pretty big plant for only a 2 gallon pot.

That is the question, what is the max ppm one can get away with before running into problems

During the "stretch", Betty was growing an inch a day. At 36" I pulled over the top branch.

About a day later I pulled over the next branch. Roughly a week later I pulled over the next two branches.

This allowed all the other branches to catch up. Right now Betty is 38" tall and the "pulled over" parts are 8" - 10" long.

The fellow that gifted me Betty grew four of her sisters. He topped and LST'ed and ended up with 14" plants !

I have a PPM meter on the way. I'll mix up a batch that was too hot and report back...

Cheers.

 

[Pennywise]

What are you using for medium?

 

[Chuckeye]

ProMix HP, straight out of the bag. No gravel, etc.

Cheers

 

[Pennywise]

You need to talk with @InTheShed hes our Promix guy.

 

[InTheShed]

There's no need to pH your nutes in ProMix, unless it makes you feel better! But it's not the medium that is the issue. It looks like an enormous plant in a tiny pot that is showing deficiencies, and I'm guessing that being root bound is the root of the issue as PE mentioned.

 

[Rheaun]

Pro-mix holds nutrient solution (water) differently than coco. I've seen my runoff go beyond 3600 PPM while feeding 600PPM with little to no runoff. Avoid letting your ProMix medium dry to less than 30% water content and every watering day should have at least 10% runoff to keep EC ramping up consistent and roots happy.

 

[Chuckeye]

There's no need to pH your nutes in ProMix, unless it makes you feel better! But it's not the medium that is the issue. It looks like an enormous plant in a tiny pot that is showing deficiencies, and I'm guessing that being root bound is the root of the issue as PE mentioned.

Yes, it does make me feel better to ph

The "deficiencies" are from four days in a row of too much nutrients. Leaves were fine up to then and haven't gotten worse since I cut back.

As to root bound. You would expect that in such a small pot But, would that not infer a larger mass of roots and more run off from watering ?

She is still taking 2 L per day with just enough runoff to wet the saucer.

BTW > I drilled a series of 1/4" holes around the bottom sides of the pot. It won't be long now before I can inspect the root ball !

Pro-mix holds nutrient solution (water) differently than coco. I've seen my runoff go beyond 3600 PPM while feeding 600PPM with little to no runoff. Avoid letting your ProMix medium dry to less than 30% water content and every watering day should have at least 10% runoff to keep EC ramping up consistent and roots happy.

Noted, thank you.

Cheers.

 

[InTheShed]

If you're in a plastic pot, just slide it out and have a look!

 

[Rheaun]

Want to point out that early veg is really without runoff where the higher humidity makes for little to no dryback so your EC is building up in ProMix. As you start more pronounced drybacks and roots fill out is where you look to get better irrigation with runoff.

 

[Rheaun]

Want to point out that early veg is really without runoff where the higher humidity makes for little to no dryback so your EC is building up in ProMix. As you start more pronounced drybacks and roots fill out is where you look to get better irrigation with runof

Note that there is a calcium ammendment like Oyster shell powder/Gypsum that will get leached and stuff from ProMix. So too much runoff can be bad too and midway through my grow I sprinkle a few grams of some form of mineral with mainly calcium content on my medium doesn't seem to harm my plants.

 

[Chuckeye]

If you're in a plastic pot, just slide it out and have a look!

I gave that some thought and then chickened out !

Want to point out that early veg is really without runoff where the higher humidity makes for little to no dryback so your EC is building up in ProMix. As you start more pronounced drybacks and roots fill out is where you look to get better irrigation with runoff.

Are you suggesting I shouldn't be watering till runoff in veg ?

Once she was well into flowering she would take 1.89L/day. And has been consistent except for the burn/flush

She went 12 hours longer before needing watering again and back to 1.89L. Odd size I know but it's the capacity of a Clamato jug

Not in a tent, humidity is whatever the house is at.. Purchase meter is on my list just so I/we know !

"Better irrigation with runoff ?" Don't understand what you mean by that...

Note that there is a calcium ammendment like Oyster shell powder/Gypsum that will get leached and stuff from ProMix. So too much runoff can be bad too and midway through my grow I sprinkle a few grams of some form of mineral with mainly calcium content on my medium doesn't seem to harm my plants.

Noted, thank you.

To recap, Betty is in a 2 gallon pot with ProMix HP.

I hand water until I see some runoff. Not enough to overflow the saucer but enough to see it.

I did try water to 20% runoff a few times and decided the waste/flush wasn't worth it except to test the runoff on a semi-regular basis..

Cheers

 

[InTheShed]

I gave that some thought and then chickened out !

Don't be afraid to peek at the roots. When my pots are in plastic 1 gallon pots looking at the roots is how I decide when it's time to transplant!

 

[Chuckeye]

Update 11 Jan 2021

112 days.

TDS meter arrived today.

The store bought spring water I WAS using tested @ 135 ppm.

My well water @ 501 ppm !

I mixed up another batch that turned out to be too hot. 50% strength of an Advanced Nutrient schedule off their site.

Lets round it up to a 2L mix
Grow 60 drops.
Micro 120 drops.
Bloom 240 drops.

At this point its @ 1620 ppm.

Add 40 drops each of Big Bud/Sensizim/B-52.

PPM goes up to 1723.

So I added another 2L of ph'ed water to the mix, TDS dropped to 1120ppm.

Watered with that tonight

Turns out that is only slightly stronger than what I settled on. Judging by whatever lower leaves are left And the top sugar leaves of the buds I'd say we're okay.

If I am missing something, please let me know ! It is so easy to have blinders on and miss something obvious.

Here she is in all her glory two days ago, Betty..

In the image, the top middle section is the end of the main branch I pulled over. Cut off 2" to test and it's still over 9" long with a dozen separate buds.

On the right is a side view of the second branch to be pulled over.

Close up of that " main top end" three days ago..

Cheers

 

[Chuckeye]

Don't be afraid to peek at the roots. When my pots are in plastic 1 gallon pots looking at the roots is how I decide when it's time to transplant!

Whenever I've flushed I've given the bottom of the pot a good look and everything appears healthy...

Cheers.

 

[InTheShed]

AN is a brand that everyone seems to dilute by at least 50% off their recommendations!

If I am missing something, please let me know !

Other than the fact that those are incredibly long spears that might be illegal in your state, it looks pretty nice!

Whenever I've flushed I've given the bottom of the pot a good look and everything appears healthy...

Cheers.

I was talking about whether it was root bound, and that would show up along the sides of the pot.

 

[Chuckeye]

AN is a brand that everyone seems to dilute by at least 50% off their recommendations!

Other than the fact that those are incredibly long spears that might be illegal in your state, it looks pretty nice!

I was talking about whether it was root bound, and that would show up along the sides of the pot.

Yeah, even 50% was too much in this case.

The "spears" were getting heavier and drooping more and more each day so I lightly tied a string around the middle of the plant !

Well, I did drill three rows of 1/4" holes around the bottom of the side of the pot and that also appears normal, from what I can see. It's not a mass of roots but I can see the odd one.

BTW > Not sure if the holes work on this scale but.. I did watch a video when the fellow used a screw from the inside to create the holes. The result was that the hole puckered out, somewhat mimicking a store bought air pot


Cheers.

 

[Chuckeye]

A look at the roots

Bit closer....

The pot is definitely full of roots but I'm not sure this could be considered "root bound" in the traditional sense ?

Perhaps the holes in the sides did prevent the roots from "circling" ?

Cheers.

 

[InTheShed]

That would be rootbound at my house. And I would score those top to bottom (and across the bottom) every inch, 1/4" deep, with a razor blade if I was going to transplant.