ClosetCase420's - RDWC - 600W MH/HPS - Wonder Woman - Grow Journal - 2015

[Emilya Green]

And Ph is a log scale like the Richter scale. Changing from 6 to 5 is ten times more of a change than from 7 to 6.

7 is the center point and as you go up or down away from that the scale goes up by tens. The point is changing from 6.4 to 6.2 is a much smaller change than changing from 5.4 to 5.2.

wait... brain just exploded. Not to be argumentative, but math is math.

pH is a logarithmic scale. The numbers 4 to 5 to 6 to 7 to 8 are all measurements on exactly the same scale. The numbers change linearly along this scale and no number has more weight than any other. A pH of 5.4 is always going to be 20x less acidic than 5.2 and 6.4 is always going to be 20x less acidic than 6.2.

also, a small correction on your big numbers... 5 will always be 100 times more acidic than 6, and 6 will always be 100x more acidic than 7.

 

[Papageno]

it's a 10 x log scale with 7 being the center point so like...7 is at what we might think of as at "0" and less than that are negative numbers and above that is positive.

Here look I just googled it so it has to be true...or actually I read this a long long time ago and just know it.

or here is another one...

 

[Emilya Green]

yep, good charts... that is what I said.

 

[Papageno]

I am just trying to let him know that the Ph scale is not linear. So changing things is different at different Phs. Adding 5mL of Down will have a different impact at 6 than at 7.

 

[Papageno]

I am an electrical engineer. Here is a funny numbers joke for you....


There are 10 kinds of people...those who understand binary, and those who don't.

 

[Emilya Green]

I am just trying to let him know that the Ph scale is not linear. So changing things is different at different Phs. Adding 5mL of Down will have a different impact at 6 than at 7.

I agree with you that this effect is seen, but it is not because the pH scale is not linear. The pH scale by definition is linear.

The effect that you are trying to describe has to do with the types of particulates that are normally in our water and how acid interacts with them. I believe that if you set up an experiment you can prove this to yourself.

Take some distilled water. It's pH will be neutral, or 7.0. Add 5ml of an acidic solution to this water and measure the change. Add another 5ml of acid, and note that the same amount of change is seen. Try it again. 5ml of acid will produce the same amount of change all the way down the scale... factoring in of course that as you keep adding 5 ml, you are also adding the acid to an ever increasing volume of fluid. It requires some calculus, but it can be seen that the amount of change is constant in pure water.

Tap water however, or water with nutes in it, is not pure of course, and as acid is added, it has something to react against. Limestone in our tap water is really good at this, and you will find as you attempt to bring your pH down, it does indeed take a little more acid at first to make a noticeable change. Think of it like matter and antimatter... compounds annihilating against the acid. Well, there is only so much of this stuff in your water, and as you add more acid, it takes less now to change the pH, because the reactions against the base materials in the water have been completed and what is going to immediately react, has done so. Whereas it took 20 ml of pH down to make a noticeable difference in the pH at first, toward the end when you are dialing in on your target pH, it may now only take a drop or two to give you a noticeable change on your meter. It is not because of the pH scale... it is because of the chemical reactions that are taking place as you make your adjustments.

 

[Emilya Green]

I am an electrical engineer. Here is a funny numbers joke for you....


There are 10 kinds of people...those who understand binary, and those who don't.

lol...
I am an economist. A joke from my world: There are three sorts of economist. Those who can count, and those who can’t.

 

[closetcase420]

Ok so I should let the PH move in the range of 5.4 to 6.4.. What do I do when/if it hits 6.4? Do I PH down at that time to bring it back to 5.4? If so how do you add your PH down? Is it ok to add directly to the tank and do you have recommendations for a 15 gal res? Feel free to point me in the right direction if you know as well.

You didn't mention anything about the PPM readings? That was my larger concern. I don't understand why the PPM reading has gone from 445 when I first finished the feeding to 545 now. Think I just took a crap reading the first time or can the PH up/down actually cause PPM to rise?

 

[Emilya Green]

Ok so I should let the PH move in the range of 5.4 to 6.4.. What do I do when/if it hits 6.4? Do I PH down at that time to bring it back to 5.4? If so how do you add your PH down? Is it ok to add directly to the tank and do you have recommendations for a 15 gal res? Feel free to point me in the right direction if you know as well.

You didn't mention anything about the PPM readings? That was my larger concern. I don't understand why the PPM reading has gone from 445 when I first finished the feeding to 545 now. Think I just took a crap reading the first time or can the PH up/down actually cause PPM to rise?

pH down is still adding something to the solution. The acid itself is adding particles to the mix, raising the ppm. Anything that you add except for pure water, will raise your ppm.

the generally accepted range for pH in hydro is 5.5-6.1, and most people try to center in on 5.8. When your mix drifts out of range, yes, add pH down slowly until you can get it back into the right spot.

 

[skunkpilot]

Thanks to all of you. You made my head hurt by thinking. What a horrible thing to do on the weekend.

 

[closetcase420]

One thing I've been reading about and pondering more is an RO system.

I'm concerned the crap in my tap water could be negatively affecting the grow.

I don't know nearly enough about RO systems to even make an intelligent decision though.

 

[PTSDgrower]

I spent $125 for the one I got on ebay, it was recommended to me by a friend on another site. I don't know much about them either. Mine is a 6 stage, I replace 3 filters every few months. I haven't replace the carbon I believe is what it's called. It said 100 gallon per day, but I believe it's more like 50. My water here sucks, its 650 ppm out of the faucet and it's hard water. You could probably get by with something similar or even cheaper. Someone will probably give you a better direction than me...

 

[Papageno]

Wow 650 from the tap...sorry man...

Filtered water will make it much easier to control and monitor. But there are some things you need to add back if you RO filter. In strictest terms you don't need to use a Reverse Osmosis filter because you don't have to get everything out. But the closer to 0 ppm you get the more confident you will be about what you add. I don't filter but I get 12 to 14 ppm out of the tap...seriously.

The biggest concerns are fluoride and chlorine. You may not have fluoride but check on that. Chlorine can be real bad but evaporates in a day.. I always filled a bunch of buckets as soon as I used them and let them sit so I always have chlorine free water hanging around.

I didn't reply about the ppm because I didn't think you described a problem. Emilya nailed it though.

 

[Papageno]

If you have tap ppm over 50 I would filter but I think RO is overkill unless you have fluoride.

 

[closetcase420]

When I lookup water filter on ebay or amazon everything that comes back seems to be related to RO systems.

Is there a simpler approach of is the 130ish RO system a good buy?

 

[closetcase420]

For example this RO system on Ebay
5 Stage Home Drinking Reverse Osmosis System Plus Extra 7 Exp Water USA Filters | eBay

Or is there a cheaper solution I can use.. My filtered water (through my refrigerator) was < 50 PPM.
I'm trying to figure out how I would engineer a solution. My water source is straight from the water lines in the basement. I'm using PEX connectors.

 

[closetcase420]

Day 23

PH 5.6
PPM 581
Room Humidity - between 25-32 percent
Room Temperature - between 68-79 degrees
Water Temperature - 67 degrees

Growth.. everything is growing. I'm pretty happy for now.

In my past grows I would have snipped off the giant fan leaf.
From what I've been reading that was likely doing more harm than good?
My plan is to not do any defoliation until after the plants are all above the screen and I've bent them down.
Is that the correct strategy?

The water level has gone down a tad in the last couple days. I'll refill it will CalMag water tomorrow to bring it back to the line.

As far as water goes, man there are a lot of options. I think the smartest thing to do would be to have my water tested to determine what I should actually filter for. With that being said I could probably get away with a simple carbon based water filter from what I've been reading. I'm pretty sure that is basically what we have in the refrigerator for the water filter and that water is relatively clean (60 PPM) with a pretty old filter. Though it's not much more money for one of the highly ranked ebay RO systems. If I did decide to go RO what would I need to add back in that isn't included in my regime?

 

[Papageno]

Looking good bro...the most important rule of growing indoor MJ is patients.

I like that they are drinking it up. So you dropped maybe a 2 gallons...what happened to the Ph and PPM over that time. What was it yesterday at this time?

 

[PTSDgrower]

If your getting less than 50 from fridge, I'd just stick with that, no need to spend the extra money if you don't have to. Your plants seem to like it. Out of my fridge is still 550

 

[closetcase420]

Looking good bro...the most important rule of growing indoor MJ is patients.

I like that they are drinking it up. So you dropped maybe a 2 gallons...what happened to the Ph and PPM over that time. What was it yesterday at this time?

11/21
PH 5.3
PPM 544

11/22
PH 5.8
PPM 557

11/23
PH 5.6
PPM 571

11/24
PH 5.6
PPM 581

I haven't touched the water since the change.