Icemud's Far Red LED Journal - Flower Trigger Manipulation - Budmaster LED Lights

[Icemud]

Ok so back to the journal lol...

I haven't yet cleaned out the growtent from my 1st seed project and knowing that the 2nd one will be underway shortly after all the clones root, I figured now is a perfect time to get it all scrubbed clean, rid of any loose pollen from the 1st run, and make sure to use some bleach water to disinfect the walls of any bacteries or unwanted whatevers... always good practice to keep the garden clean each run

I took the floor tray out, scrubbed it and hung it to dry, and sprayed all the walls surfaces pretty much everthing with bleachwater and then a wet towel to wipe it clean...

Nice and clean

Other than that I removed all the green rubber wire I used to hang all the plants, and once the tent dries I will hang the budmaster god 8 and god 4 back up, and then good to go I also before I hang the god 4, I have to replace one of the fans which quit working. It started squeeking a while back and finally one day I noticed it stopped working, but didn't have the right size screwdriver to get at the fan screws as they were mounted on the bottom fan holes and not the top... so went out and finally got some screwdrivers that should work so this weekend I will replace the fan, which takes all of like 5 minutes very easy..

Once the 2nd round of seed project officially starts, I will create a separate journal for that to keep it separate from the Far red grow so when I do I will post it here



In the Far red tent, everything is looking happy and healthy and I haven't noticed any issues with the plants on the new growth so I will continue to monitor it. Since I picked up some worm castings yesterday, I got a tea going last night and today it was really frothy so I decided to give my girls a foliar compost tea spray... I'm sure they will look nice and happy in a few hours after it soaks in and I will hopefully get a nice aroma of dank as a thank you lol haha

I have noticed that my carbon scrubber is getting a slight bit weak, however it could be the temperatures as they have been running in the mid 85-89 range so I believe I read somewhere that hotter temps can do that... but may need to start budgeting for one for replacing after this grow... I'm actually quite surprised that I have gotten probably about 2 years of constant use out of this one, not too bad, without a smidgen of smell love the carbon power! hahah

Well other than that, I won't be feeding the girls for another day or 2 as the soil is still fairly moist.

well here is a hell yea and a cheers to a great weekend everyone!!! Hope you all enjoy! I will hopefully be on more this weekend and now that flowering is close the updates will be coming sooner

I also may just take new clones in addition to what is currently rooting tonight or tomorrow for just in case, as I would rather have healthy rooted clones than ones that are struggling... so most likely tonight or tomorrow I will do this

 

[Icemud]

By the way...

I have officially named the strain I made Tangie x Black cherry soda....


The new name for the F1's is Black and Tange (pronounced Tan-g)

I looked and didn't see any other strains by that name... so there it is Black and tange by....??????

I'm still trying to figure out a name for breeding... and I'm stuck between "muddy beans" or "the phylos" and I really both.

 

[SunWorshiper]

Man that little led is awesome. Can't wait to see how the clones react to it. You have them on a warming mat?

 

[Bangabong]

Hey Ice! Just stopped by to see who all had started new journals and yours is the first I see, go figure! Looks like you have yet another informative grow going! That led light bar is a great idea, think I am going to go down and get one for my next grow.

 

[Icemud]

Man that little led is awesome. Can't wait to see how the clones react to it. You have them on a warming mat?

Yep... warming mat, root riot plugs, humidity dome...given only plain water for humidity, and sprayed 1x per day with r/o water, 1-1-1 organic B-1, and a few drops of superthrive. Used clonex because I still have some left, trimmed cut on 45 degree angle, roughed up the sides of the stem, and put into the rooting gel, and then into the root riot plugs...

I try to keep the water level down only enough to create moisture, but not enough to saturate the plugs... hopefully they will root fine now they are getting even lighting

 

[Icemud]

Hey Ice! Just stopped by to see who all had started new journals and yours is the first I see, go figure! Looks like you have yet another informative grow going! That led light bar is a great idea, think I am going to go down and get one for my next grow.

Yea it was quite inexpensive, and much better coverage than the cfl I had over them... hopefully it works just as well or better Glad to have ya stop by and say hello

should be an interesting journal as I test out the budmaster 730nm Far Red panel, with a 14/10 flowering schedule, and hopefully that the theory of it tricking the plants into flowering works well will be about a week and then should be flipping

 

[Icemud]

This update is titled "Hi, I'm Icemud, and I am a genetics addict"

LOL



So pretty much every week I search around my area looking for Grand Daddy Purple clones and usually come up unlucky, or find a source that just isn't really reputable, and today, I found a dispensary about 1 hour away that had 1 GDP clone left... I told them to hold it and I would be heading out immediately.

Well I think I entered clone heaven Back about 3-4 years ago, a lot of dispensaries used to carry clones, but after all the recent law changes in California, many many dispesaries closed and there is literally only like 6 clone suppliers in a 2 hour radius of me, in southern california... so finding what you want is much more difficult...

Anyhow, I have picked up the supposed GDP about 3 other times, and each time it was a bunk strain, and not GDP... but today the collective I found... I knew I had the right place...

So I probably shouldn't have, but you know me... I love my good genetics... and I left with 6 new strains to add to my garden, seed projects and perpetual grow...

I picked up 1 of each of:

Grand Daddy Purple
Candyland
Trainwreck
Mendo Grape Kush
Jet fuel og
Gorilla Glue #4



So the choices actually were pretty stratigic in my choices, as the end goal will be to produce feminized seeds, but also work the genetics to create something amazing....

Grand daddy purple and Trainwreck, when looking at a 3D genetic map of 1000's of strain, are at the very end of the line...in terms of being so genetically diverse from anything else... think of a spider web, with it representing the different genetic varieties within cannabis. Now picture GDP at the 3 oclock position, OG kushes at the 6 oclock, trainwreck at the 9 oclock and hazes at the 12 oclock... each of these "oclocks" represents the furthest genetic potential from each other when relating like the 9 oclock to the 3 oclock... and so on... about 90% of the strains tested all fall somewhere in the middle between all the points... but the GDP, OG Kush, Trainwreck, and Hazes all are very different from each other... almost opposites in terms of the genetic makup...

In this map... Grand Daddy purple is the tiny pink purple dot with the label on the far right, and trainwreck is the labled dot on the far left..

So speaking with the genetics guy that I work with.. a very famous one... he was telling me that the goal of breeding is to take 2 genetically diverse strains, opposites persay, and to breed them, which floods the gene pool with many more options, vs if you were to take 2 strains that were closely related, which only would have so many "options" for genetic potential because they are very alike in genetic layout... the 2 strains that are complete opposites would have more potentials of something "new" forming vs breeding within a line...

Now the other approach though, using genetic mapping, is to "work" a strain by incorporating only those known genetics for a specific purpose. Think of making a cannabis strain that is mold resistant, pest resistant, easy on the nutrients, uses little water, yields high, and has a specific terpene content... This is all now possible, without modifying DNA like GMO (using other plant species genes), but instead reading the genetic mapping, knowing which traits a certain strain carries, and then breeding that strain to pull that trait out "pest resistant for example" and then breeding it into the new F1. The old way of doing this would be to plant 1000's of strains and look for those traits out of the huge grow, but now using genetic testing, you can take a small leaf punch, early in veg, read the DNA and know exactly what traits that plant will express. So you can pretty much cut time down, and directly be certain that you breed towards your goal.. and in that method.. you would select the strains of the same lineage, that show that specific trait you are looking for...

I won't be doing that method because that obviously takes a lab, PHD genetics scientists and a ton of money... but that is the other method that will be very soon utilized in the cannabis world, and I'm lucky enough to be working with a guy that is doing it

So for me, my goal is to create that "something special" strain.... and also something I enjoy... I really don't care about "breeding for a trait" but more to take the most genetically diverse pair of strains, and breed them to see if I can make that something special

Also being that I have been searching for GDP forever... I will be certain that I make plenty of feminized seeds of it for the future use


Candyland also really caught my eye because that is 2 of my favorite strains combined what could go wrong with that ? GDP x GSC yum!!

Race Fuel OG was kind of a splurge buy, but I know I needed a good OG as the fire OG I had just wasn't doin it, so Race Fuel OG is a "High Octane" OG x Face Off OG BX1

Gorilla Glue #4 I have had my eye on for a long time as well. Not only a cup winner a couple different cups but very very popular, super frosty and high in THC so I had to pick this one up... very glad I did

Mendo Purple Kush: Well what can I say.. another 2 elite strains bred together... Mendo Purps and OG kush... couldn't go wrong with this one

So all of these clones were placed into 3 gallon round pots in my premixed and recycled soil, given some good mycos and compost tea as well as a foliar spray and placed under the lights in their own tent. I will quarentine them for a while, just to make sure they are not sick or any pests, but upon visual inspection, they look perfect, no marks, pests or disease I could see, and very healthy and lots of roots... should be good

I also got my other grow tent all cleaned out, put the budmaster GOD 8 and GOD 4 back up. I fixed the fan on the GOD 4 last night which was really easy and only took a few minutes. I then moved my 2 clones that just were rooted, my black cherry soda and my harlequin, as well as my 3 mystery seeds I got back in Chicago from a friend... just random bagseeds... I put all of these in the new "breeding tent" for them to mature, as well as I will add all the other strains into here once they root in my root riot plugs. As for the mystery "bagseed" plants. I may just throw them into the emerson tent to flower, and put them on buckets just to make sure they get enough light, but really there was no plant to them, other than just curiosity.

I took more clones last night of the ogiesel, 2 tangies and black diamond og, just to make sure that they root, and will be flipping the tent in probably a few days from now.

In the Emerson tent, I put in bamboo stakes last night, and tied up the plants with my rubberized wire cord to give them space to grow, something to lean on, but also keep them from oversprawling the other strains.

 

[SunWorshiper]

!!! Man that's so flipping awesome. That map. I want that map! Lol I can't wait to see what you do w the gdp down the road. I only ever bred plants once. Back in the islands I crossed the original ducksfoot with a local Hawaiian mango strain. I loved growing the duck but for me was too spicey in taste. Easy to grow and good yield, decent potency. So I crossed it with the mango for more desired flavor. Still looked like the duck but tasted like a blend of the two. I kind of have a similar goal as you. The duck is not the best strain ever but it is decent and so unique. Ive had a few dozen other strains in my limited experience most of which were much better but always found myself obsessed with the duck. My seeds got destroyed in a small flood and after I moved it was all just a forgotten memory. Now after being m.i.a. for over a decade Im back and can't find the duck anywhere. The closest thing is still pretty cool though. Dutch Passion has taken their best outdoor strain Frisian Dew and crossed it to the duck. Should be more versatile now. I hope to be able to take the Frisian Duck and start over where I left off. I'm very amped to see your drive and devotion to your program. Especially interested in all the science you have going. I dont comment on all your posts but I do read all the great info in them. Thanks again for all of your work.

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Wow that was like some good reading

First of all, i see what you mean by the thinner leaf structure with far red led going on interesting observation & not sure on what to make of that just yet only time will tell.

I read through those articles of what is in what & if i was really paranoid i'd stop breathing... ye a toxic landscape we live in these days mankind done this to him self with lack of education & science off the long term effect, all very short sighted but technology moves forwards we learn from past mistakes as we try to deal with the damage done from the past, more likely an on going saga with the history of mankind, lol.


What makes me laugh is sea water, just think of the early days of atomic bombs being tested on those pacific islands well ye the fall out like the dust & crap sent up in the blast landed in the sea may off got carried in the wind/clouds coming down with the rain some where...

Plus the rest of the crap dumped in the sea...


Then i think about cold pressed sea weed & fish emulsion ferts/nutrients derived from such, what is really in that stuff ?


Ye i might have a receding hairline but not bold yet, tho that i may agree i'm slightly quacking mad at times !

 

[Icemud]

So I dedided that... Today is Day 1 of floweing.

I made the executive decision last night after looking at my jars of meds getting low and knowing that I need to get these plants into flowering. I decided to set the timers to 14/10 for the regular LED lights, and I have the emerson panel set for starting 15 minutes before lights off turning off 45 minutes after lights out. So it runs for 1 hour total at the very end of the day. I decided to stretch out the period from 1/2 hour to 1 hour just to overlap the lights out timer, since they have a tendency to drift sometimes.

I also discontinued using the Emerson Far red panel during the daytime peak hours, as I want to see the effects of the flowering trigger by itself, without the extra far red during the daylight. I did notice that with using the Emerson panel during veg, during the peak daylight hours, it definitely made some of the plants leaves stretch out more than I have ever seen. It also really helped the ogiesel stretch as the ogiesel usually is very tight together and dense, it definitely helped create longer internodes... I could see the stretch from the extra Far Red during daylight being very useful for short bushy indica's.

I also decided to locate 1 taller stem, near a bamboo stake, and used a marker to mark off hash marks every 2" starting at the level of the top leaf. Now this will help track the stretch and when it stops, and hopefully it doesn't overgrow the marks

The other big change I made to the flowering/Emerson tent, was that I added 2 more plants to the tent. I had 3 random bagseeds that I got from one of my friends in chicago, and just out of curiosity planted them. Well now that I have 6 new know strains to play with, really I don't need to keep an unknown around because I need the space, so I transplanted 2 of the 3 bagseed plants into 5 gallon pots, and added them to the flowering tent.

I will have to keep close watch, so I placed them in the front, because I don't want to have a hermi pollinate the tent, and with unknown seeds, anything is possible. I definitely can see that they are a indica dom by the fat leaves, and have a very skunky smell already. Maybe will surprise myself lol. I do have a couple seeds left in case it is something spectacular...LOL. I also will keep the 3rd plant for now, and if one of the others hermies, or is male the I will swap it out. I don't really have intention on keeping these going so figured instead of waste them, might as well flower them out and see what I find.. adds to the suspense lol

So other than that... with the new LED strip light on my clone dome, they definitely look much more perky and alive, and I have a feeling within a few days more should be showing roots and ready for soil. I sprayed them down again today with my r/o water and 1-1-1 b1 spray and checked the water level which was fine.

I also sprayed down the new clones today, with the same spray as above, but added spinosad and SNS pest concentrate. I haven't seen any signs of pests, but I really want to make sure before bringing them into my other tent, so best to treat them, let them grow separate for now, until the new roots take hold, new leaves develop and I can watch to make sure

 

[Kalimaki420]

Starting bloom right at the edge with 14/10 + Ifr should show fast if that will work.

I use a 15$ 10W 6500k LED stripe for my aero-cloner for a year now, works good.

 

[Icemud]

Starting bloom right at the edge with 14/10 + Ifr should show fast if that will work.

I use a 15$ 10W 6500k LED stripe for my aero-cloner for a year now, works good.

Good to know the LED strip is working for you. There is a definite difference from the before/after, as the plants look much more alive and happy with the LED strip.

 

[Jacobsenji]

Good to know the strip is an asset.


Phrum the light room.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I picked up 1 of each of:

Grand Daddy Purple
Candyland
Trainwreck
Mendo Grape Kush
Jet fuel og
Gorilla Glue #4

Nice score! I'd sort, kind of, maybe like to try the Grand Daddy Purple. I think I'd really like to try the Candyland, and probably the Gorilla Glue #4.

No clones around here . But I did go on a bit of a road trip (few states over) Saturday, and came home with a few new strains (in seed form) to try. And a few more. And a few more . The fates - and a wonderful forum member - were kind.

I might even have to try this auto-flower thing out...

when looking at a 3D genetic map of 1000's of strain, are at the very end of the line...in terms of being so genetically diverse from anything else.

Where do African sativas fall? Is there a version of that graphic that can be searched?

he was telling me that the goal of breeding is to take 2 genetically diverse strains, opposites persay, and to breed them

That ought to show the most hybrid vigor. I suppose it works best if you like at least some of the characteristics of both plants; otherwise, going for the highest amount of diversity in breeding partners might not be especially helpfu?

This is all now possible, without modifying DNA like GMO

Which is not to say that no one is doing it, necessary or not.

I decided to set the timers to 14/10 for the regular LED lights, and I have the emerson panel set for starting 15 minutes before lights off turning off 45 minutes after lights out. So it runs for 1 hour total at the very end of the day.

Will you be continuing this light schedule (including the one-hour far red supplementation) until harvest?

 

[Graytail]

I don't know if they want it hotlinked, so I'll just say to guggle Phylos Galaxy. It's a cool tool.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Thanks. (My shortest post, ever.)

 

[SunWorshiper]

I don't know if they want it hotlinked, so I'll just say to guggle Phylos Galaxy. It's a cool tool.

AWESOME X 1 Million thanks!

 

[Twox]

Good stuff, love the video updates and those seed varieties sound fantastic. I got some catching up to do but I want to sub this for later..

 

[Icemud]

Hey Everyone!!

I was pretty tired the other day when I posted that video, so I didn't get around to also posting the photos I took that night so here is a quick update:


The Far Red Flowering test:

So after making the video, and thinking about how to approach this Far Red test, I figured since I have read people use it many different ways, ranging from running it 15 minutes after lights out on a 12/12 schedule, some mentioned the ability to use a 14/10 schedule with it for 2 hours after lights out, and lots of information combining the 2 options... so at first I figured why not cut it down the middle and go with 1 hour, which will bridge the gap of the lights going out by 15 minutes and end up on for 45 minutes after lights out... well after thinking about it I decided to bump up the use of the far red to 2 hours after lights out. I figured lets test this theory first, and if it works then we can try next grow reducing it to 15 minutes to see if that works, which will then test both ways... I figured its better than trying something new and only going with an hour... so as of today, they will be on for 15 minutes before lights out, and run 1 3/4 hours after lights out.

Other than that, the plants are doing well. The 2 mystery bagseeds are definitely stretching a lot since I put them in the tent, and flipped, and the Ogiesel also is stretching quite a bit more than I have seen it do before. This actually could be a benefit for those running indica dom strains that don't often stretch, as adding Far Red definitely caused longer internode distances than every before without it, so could be good for stretching out those compact indicas. On the sativa dom plants, the stretch is far less noticeable, and really doesn't look any different than past grows without it, so I find that pretty interesting as well.

As far as plant health, my tangie #5 in the front left is not to happy and really showing me some deficiencies which looks to be a Nitrogen deficiency as well as the leaves seem to be really curling up. Other than that Tangie #5, the rest of the plants look pretty happy and are growing nice, but still showing a slight K and Mg deficiency.

With the last feeding, I prepared some botanicare pro grow and bloom, some 1-1-1 b1 organic seaweed extract, and a 1/4 amount of earthjuice grow, to bump up the N, and some botanicare cal/mag. Yesterday I fed the girls as they were pretty dry and we are getting the usual fall/winter dry winds off the desert, so the girls were pretty thirsty.

So I haven't seen any flowers form yet, but I can tell the plants are starting to get read to flower as I see a few developing slightly more white pistils at the nodes than a week ago, so I think they should pop flowers within the next week. It will be pretty cool to see if this 14/10 with far red works, on all strains and I have quite a variety which will show if it works with all or just some.

Other than that not much else to update at this time with the garden: Here are the pics from Day 6 flowering.

 

[Billyjack]

Nice work. Very good update