Making RSO with Everclear and Distiller

[GTASeeds]

I'll be making some RSO soon.

Maybe I've read too many articles about tinctures and RSO. There are so many techniques and opinions. Let the weed soak for weeks vs. just do a quickwash. Shake, stir, do not agitate. Use this solvent or that... it's crazy.

I've made many infusions and extractions; using many techniques. They all "work" to some degree, and I know there's no "best" approach. It depends on the equipment you have available, time, and many other factors. That said, I am looking for some opinions to tweak and optimize my process before I make my next batch.

Here's my intention... Let me know what you think I should do differently:

I'll be using trim and Everclear. I just got a temperature-controlled water distiller; and I'm looking forward to trying it out. It seems to take forever when distilling water, but I like the idea that I can use the Everclear pretty liberally to wash the trim and reclaim most of it. Normally, I'd be curious about the amount of Everclear needed. In the past, I do 2 washes and just barely cover the weed. Since I'm using the distiller; I'll probably do 3 pretty washes being pretty liberal with the amount of Ethanol used. It'll take longer to distill, but since I'm using trim I'd like to extract as much as I can.

The biggest question I have is about the best time to decarb. I think I'd prefer to PRE decarb w/ sous vide, extract using the Ethanol, distill to recover the Ethanol, and then evaporate off the small amount of remaining Ethanol.

My plan:

1. Leave Everclear in freezer for > 1d to chill
2. Decarb trim using Sous Vide (200°F for 1h 40m)
3. Chill decarb'd cannabis for a few hours in the freezer
4. Combine trim and Everclear in a mason jar
5. Shake for 2 minutes, let sit for 3m
6. Strain & Filter twice
7. 2nd wash of trim, strain & filter
8. Distill & monitor, stop when most of the ethanol has been recovered
9. Pour into 1 cup pyrex or similar small glass container
10. Very low heat, cook off remailing ethanol until only oil remains
11. Stop when there are no bubbles escaping oil/tar

To get the most potent oil, should I pre-decarb, pre-and-post decarb (watch for bubbles), or stick to the tried & true and let the cook-off in step 10/11 decarb?

Thanks. I appreciate all opinions.

your oil is being decarbed during distillation, there is no need to decarb the flower, you would destroy beneficial terpenes by decarbing the flower

 

[MotaMan420]

I'd have to disagree on the decarb / distillation theory --- distillation is at 172 - 176 degrees and only for a short period of time -- my distiller can pull 5 cups of alcohol in 30min -- and actual decarb is 245 degrees for 30 min or longer (depending on person performing the function)

How can the oil decarb in such a such short period of time and at such a low temp ?

MotaMan

 

[MotaMan420]

I'm not saying anyone is wrong. If there is new knowledge out there I always like to learn.

Happy Growing
MotaMan

 

[MotaMan420]

The water distiller takes forever for water BUT not for alcohol -- it is quick once the desired temp between 172 - 176 (boiling point of alcohol).

MotaMan

 

[MotaMan420]

One last rant and I'm back to watering the auto's -- I use a Magic Butter Machine for the extraction -- it has a "no temp" setting that I can use as well a low temp setting -- and I can agitate the mixture for an extended period of time - this process removes everything and gives the result a dark color and a little grassy taste.. I usually perform a second wash so I'm left with approx 9 1/2 cups of tincture which then I distill down.

I have (unless I missed it) never saw what the reason was for freezing the pot or the solvent -- except only to fracture the trichomes and separate them from the bud material -- how does a near freezing solvent remove the THC molecule for the plant material ? -- again thanks -- all knowledge is needed.

Happy Growing
MotaMan

 

[Ascended Master Kief]

One last rant and I'm back to watering the auto's -- I use a Magic Butter Machine for the extraction -- it has a "no temp" setting that I can use as well a low temp setting -- and I can agitate the mixture for an extended period of time - this process removes everything and gives the result a dark color and a little grassy taste.. I usually perform a second wash so I'm left with approx 9 1/2 cups of tincture which then I distill down.

I have (unless I missed it) never saw what the reason was for freezing the pot or the solvent -- except only to fracture the trichomes and separate them from the bud material -- how does a near freezing solvent remove the THC molecule for the plant material ? -- again thanks -- all knowledge is needed.

Happy Growing
MotaMan

I heard freezing the bud and the solvent helps prevent the chlorophyll from transferring over to the solvent.

 

[gr865]

I heard freezing the bud and the solvent helps prevent the chlorophyll from transferring over to the solvent.

You can also put it in a closed jar and sat it in the sun to rid the chlorophyll.
This works well.

 

[Joe Brewster]

One last rant and I'm back to watering the auto's -- I use a Magic Butter Machine for the extraction -- it has a "no temp" setting that I can use as well a low temp setting -- and I can agitate the mixture for an extended period of time - this process removes everything and gives the result a dark color and a little grassy taste.. I usually perform a second wash so I'm left with approx 9 1/2 cups of tincture which then I distill down.

I have (unless I missed it) never saw what the reason was for freezing the pot or the solvent -- except only to fracture the trichomes and separate them from the bud material -- how does a near freezing solvent remove the THC molecule for the plant material ? -- again thanks -- all knowledge is needed.

Happy Growing
MotaMan

Your process removes everything and gives the result a dark color and a little grassy taste..

Doing a quick wash extraction in super cold temps keeps the fats, lipids, waxes & chlorophyl out of your oil. Getting back almost pure THC or CBD honey oil
I can put my oil in a 510 vape cartridge with no thinners or additives

A solvent works as a solvent at +or- temps it's a solvent

Extractors use cold temperatures of -20º C and below to reduce the solubility of polar compounds (e.g., chlorophyll) and target desired compounds (e.g., cannabinoids). When plant waxes and chlorophyll are extracted, they must be removed with post-processing steps such as winterization. Temperatures between -20º C and -80º C are used for winterization, making a colder initial extraction the more efficient single-step process.

 

[MotaMan420]

Thanks for info - once again - knowledge is gold....

But -- no one addressed the decarb theory with the oil during distillation -- Where's the reply 420?

Happy Growing
MotaMan

 

[MotaMan420]

I offer my apology 420 -- that was GTA ..

MotaMan

 

[Sleepy One]

I just started following this thread, and maybe I missed the reason, but why not distill ALL of the alcohol in the distiller? Why finish it off outside of the distiller? Is it so you can watch it? Will it get burned or too thick if left in the distiller? So many questions. So little time.

 

[Joe Brewster]

Will it get burned or too thick if left in the distiller?

Yes, especially if you extract everything. Cruder oil will burn & turn into a black lump
Not as much chance if you do the cold quick wash & get cleaner oil.
Depending on the distiller may be easier to pour it out than scrape it out

 

[MotaMan420]

I agree with 420 --- with the distiller it will lose some alcohol due to evaporation so trying to measure what's taken out does not always give an accurate idea of what's left inside and a miscalculation can lead to a failure and burnt oil - useless.

So ya wanna finish off the last cup outside the distiller so you can see the reduction taking place and can stop it when oil is all that is left... always in a well ventilated area..

But has anyone tried agitating the bud and solvent while it's in the freezer? -- instead of a periodical agitation a continuous one. Wouldn't that ensure a total recovery of all the goodies the bud has to offer ? There's gotta be a machine out there that can do this. Or is there a way to test the plant material to ensure total removal of THC?

Why leave anything behind?

And since GTA (420 "member") didn't address my ? -- we can agree that decarb the bud prior to extraction because the low temp of distillation cannot decarb the oil.

Happy Growing
MotaMan

 

[GTASeeds]

I'd have to disagree on the decarb / distillation theory --- distillation is at 172 - 176 degrees and only for a short period of time -- my distiller can pull 5 cups of alcohol in 30min -- and actual decarb is 245 degrees for 30 min or longer (depending on person performing the function)

How can the oil decarb in such a such short period of time and at such a low temp ?

MotaMan

Try the oil it works, I know from experience, and if I'm wrong then warm up the oil a bit more and save your self the time, putting your flower in the oven

 

[MotaMan420]

I always like new and helpful knowledge -- if it is true then the oven method 250 degrees (THC hates heat) for 30 minutes could actually be damaging the THC molecule...

Just like in that funny move "My Cousin Vinnie" -- physics -- the THC molecule is supposed to decarb at the above temp and duration -- how can it decarb in your distiller at a lower temp and shorter duration? Unless you're burning the oil which I reckon would be like decarbing pot when ya light up a joint. It's plain physics - has to be one or the other - cannot be both... you do not explain the physics..

Haven't heard from any of the other RSO makers chime in yet -- there has to be some of us in this forum who are more profound in the knowledge that we look for. I apologize for the slow response - taking care of the grandkids.

Happy Growing
MotaMan

 

[Regrowth]

It happens at lower temperatures too AFAIK...
doesn't our stash go through the same decarb process as it ages at room temp?
You'll hear people say things like "decarb is expressed as heat over time".
But if the distillation time isn't that long then...

People making RSO with older buds will also have their RSO already partially activated I guess.
I'm not much of a RSO person. Just stoned and rambling.

 

[MotaMan420]

WTF ??? --- OK , we need some of the scientific guru's out there.. Enemies of THC -- Heat , Air, and light.. Re point me and all of us here to some sort of publication that supports your theory that decarboxylation can occur at different temperatures and durations.. We need the Phd's here on 420 --- and not the Phil , Henry , and Daves.

Like stated main enemy is HEAT -- if THCA can be decarbed at lower temps I'm all for it -- , but I haven't seen anywhere that purports what is claimed here.. No where is it suggested to decarb at lower temps and shorter durations, if there is please point to the publication and not just a post here on 420... like Vinnie said "physics".

If I don't have to heat an oven and babysit a bunch of baking pot all the better -- please let it be so... just point the way. And again no where have I ever seen that weed decarbs as it sits out and ages, then why am I keeping my harvest in airtight containers in the friggin freezer?

Happy Growing
MotaMan

 

[MotaMan420]

Where are you 420 ?

Still waiting for that reference - as for relying on what is "felt" may just be a placebo affect..

I also reached out to other growing sites (the more knowledge the better) and none can offer any information to confirm your statement of decarboxylation occurring at different temp's and durations....

Happy Growing
MotaMan

 

[Joe Brewster]

Where are you 420 ?

Who are you referring to when asking for 420?

Still waiting for that reference - as for relying on what is "felt" may just be a placebo affect..

statement of decarboxylation occurring at different temp's and durations....

Please quote who said this, so they can respond

I responded to a couple questions in this thread but I'm not @420

 

[Regrowth]

The way you replied seemed arrogant so I wasn't going to trouble myself with doing something that might take you 30 seconds to search yourself. I also never said "decarb at lower temps and shorter durations", you decarb at lower temps for longer. Common sense. And I was partially in agreement with you that the distillation process wasn't doing a proper decarb. Either way look up decarboxylation and notice how times vary depending on the temperature (method) you use... Then look up how your cannabis is activated on it's own over time as well.