SOGgy Daze Ahead For Mr. Krip!

[Mr. Krip]

Sounds like you need to move the cloner to another solitary location free from all the heat of all of your other grow lights.

When I'm running my cloner, all I use is a single 125 watt CFL fixture and do not have any plants under the 4x4 T5 that you have seen in use recently in that same closet.

It really isn't going to work for you leaving it in the tent with everything else. Just too hot.

Yeah, not to mention the tent will be on a 12/12 schedule!

I do have TWO 23w CFL's in the fixture now, maybe I'll remove one. I'll also raise the light a little so it's not so close.

 

[Crower619]

Ladies are coming very nice krip cant wait till you get some growth and slam that screen in haha

 

[Mr. Krip]

Ladies are coming very nice krip cant wait till you get some growth and slam that screen in haha

Thanks, Crower, but no screen! It's a SOG - not a SCROG!

 

[Mr. Krip]

QUICK UPDATE

I decided to UBT Lucy and, until I feel comforable with the temps in the TK, I decided to clone her in rockwool.

In an ideal situation, I probably would have waited a little longer. Her lower growth was a little ragged, so until she fills back out, she's kinda ugly, but here she is right now (see my post from this morning to see her before she got topped):

Since there was no room in the veg cab, I put her top in the tent on the TK:

Sorry I didn't shoot a pic before I covered with the plastic wrap!

I'm still debating on how to time this first round, but I guess I'll decide when I get there.

My "latest iteration" of a plan is to put the 6 strongest clones in first, then give the others some time to catch up, then put in the next six strongest, since it only looks like 8-10 will be ready by this weekend.

Happy Harvests!

K

 

[ThatOneGuyy]

Hey Mr.K ! Looking great. I hope the rot doesn't progress. watching this grow and reading all the input sure will help me on future grows.

In hindsight, I shouldve cloned my tops when I topped my LemonSkunk. I will remember for next time!

 

[Spike69]

looking good M.K. I saw some of your bud pics. great growing buddy

 

[420fied]

Yep!

The cloner needs to be moved to a solitary location free from all the heat of all of your other grow lights. And DEFINITELY 18/6! No need for 24/0. Wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference unless the clones were flowering and you needed to start revegging ASAP. Thats the only time I have ever done anything besides 18/6 with the TK.

When I'm running my cloner, all I use is a single 125 watt CFL fixture and do not have any plants under the 4x4 T5 that you have seen in use recently in that same closet. Can't have the 4x4 on when cloning. Just makes it too hot in there. Clones need very little light too. A double T5 tube fixture, or even a single tube would be all they really need.

As you have seen, it really isn't going to work for you leaving it in the tent with everything else. Just too hot.

Placing it on a metal equipment rack with good bottom ventilation will also make a big difference.

Remember that the water temp will always come up to around 4 degrees below the ambient room temperature where it is located and eventually equal it, so when placed in your tent in the high 70s or low 80s, you're hosed before you even start.

One thing I failed to consider also is that if the pump they supplied with that much smaller unit is the same one I have, it is definitely going to heat that small reservoir up a lot faster. What is the pump you got with it? Did it say in the manual? Just curious if they are using the same one. I think that would have been a big mistake on their part because of what you are running into with it.

Very solid post.

Can you please elaborate on your 18/6 vs 24/7 opinion for me? I don't think 18/6 - 24/7 makes that big of a difference over the cloner because if it's being done right, the light source above the cloner is so weak that it doesn't really matter because as I'm sure you know, we don't want the clones going into photosynthesis. I keep my T5 on over my cloner 24/7 because I have to(my mother sits beside it). I simply cover them with a canopy.

 

[Goldengoose7]

Very solid post.

Can you please elaborate on your 18/6 vs 24/7 opinion for me? I don't think 18/6 - 24/7 makes that big of a difference over the cloner because if it's being done right, the light source above the cloner ais so weak that it doesn't really matter because as I'm sure you know, we don't want the clones going into photosynthesis. I keep my T5 on over my cloner 24/7 because I have to(my mother sits beside it). I simply cover them with a canopy.

Sure.

This was in regards to managing the cloner's water temp, and keeping the area cooler.

No lights = no heat problem. Not sure what you are referring to about them not photosynthesizing. They do that to survive. That process never stops unless the plant is dead.

In terms of the lights cycle... Plants need a period of time to sleep. And plants will sleep regardless of what you do with your lights. You're just wasting power keeping them on all the time, and in many cases adding to the heat management issues in a particular room. 18/6 is the most efficient for clones and for vegging mothers. When I'm growing outside, 16/8 is the most natural light I get here on the summer solstice and nothing bad happens to my vegging plants out there.

I get a 100% success rate cloning from vegging mothers using 18/6, so all I can say is that it works for me, and it helps keep the cloner's water temp a little more manageable. Saves a little energy too!

 

[420fied]

Sure.

This was in regards to managing the cloner's water temp, and keeping the area cooler.

No lights = no heat problem. Not sure what you are referring to about them not photosynthesizing. They do that to survive. That process never stops unless the plant is dead.

In terms of the lights cycle... Plants need a period of time to sleep. And plants will sleep regardless of what you do with your lights. You're just wasting power keeping them on all the time, and in many cases adding to the heat management issues in a particular room. 18/6 is the most efficient for clones and for vegging mothers. When I'm growing outside, 16/8 is the most natural light I get here on the summer solstice and nothing bad happens to my vegging plants out there.

I get a 100% success rate cloning from vegging mothers using 18/6, so all I can say is that it works for me, and it helps keep the cloner's water temp a little more manageable. Saves a little energy too!

Thanks. I didn't realize you were talking about heat. Anyway, the pump in the res effects water temps 10x more than the lights do.


What I meant regarding photosynthesis is that when clones are sitting in the cloner trying to root, that you don't want a ton of light on them. If you do,,, it'll trigger ps and they will yellow much, much faster.

18/6 saves a little energy but to say that it's more 'efficient' than 24/7 for vegging mothers is opinion.

 

[Goldengoose7]

Never had a problem with early yellowing.

I think most experienced growers would go along with the 18/6 cycle. I don't know anyone personally that uses 24/0 for anything but germination.

 

[OG13]

Have any of you TK users thought about a Peltier device to cool the reservoir. Seems like it would at least offset the pump heat. The smaller TK is probably the most susceptible due to the smaller res.

 

[SteveHman]

I am thinking of picking up a Coolworks Ice Probe for my 60 site ezcloner. I am a bit hesitant to cut a hole in the side though. They cost about $115. Here's a snippet from a website selling them:

A single IceProbe can cool 10 gallons of water 6-8F below ambient air temperature in a standard aquarium. Multiple IceProbes can be used in a single aquarium to achieve higher temperature differentials.

So if your room temp is 74, it should be able to keep your cloner res at 68~70?

 

[Goldengoose7]

Have any of you TK users thought about a Peltier device to cool the reservoir. Seems like it would at least offset the pump heat. The smaller TK is probably the most susceptible due to the smaller res.

I have been able to manage mine through basically shutting down all other growing activity in the closet where my T48 lives. Obviously, I would prefer not to have to do that, but I haven't explored any type of water cooling device "yet".

I failed to consider the potential for a more severe heating problem with this new T24 cloner. It makes total sense though that a smaller reservoir is going to warm up a lot faster than a larger one.

I am thinking of picking up a Coolworks Ice Probe for my 60 site ezcloner. I am a bit hesitant to cut a hole in the side though. They cost about $115. Here's a snippet from a website selling them:

A single IceProbe can cool 10 gallons of water 6-8F below ambient air temperature in a standard aquarium. Multiple IceProbes can be used in a single aquarium to achieve higher temperature differentials.

So if your room temp is 74, it should be able to keep your cloner res at 68~70?

Hey Steve!

Thanks for the lead! Looks like this is a bigger problem for cloner owners than I thought! Even with your 60 eh? Wow!

 

[SteveHman]

Hey Steve!

Thanks for the lead! Looks like this is a bigger problem for cloner owners than I thought! Even with your 60 eh? Wow!

I'm not sure that it is a problem with my cloner. I've honestly never checked pH or temp on my res while cloning. I guess I've been very luck not to have anything go wrong yet. The ezcloner does have a temperature strip on the inside, but you have to lift the lid to see it.

I am assuming if everyone else is having heat issues, I am probably in the same boat. I do have a small CL-85 chiller sitting idle in the closet that I could use as well, I just don't want to add another pump to the equation and the IceProbe looks like a good alternative to the problem.

I think I'm almost negligent in my cloning practices and seem to get 100% with my system. It is definitely more a testament to the gear and not the grower in my case.

 

[Goldengoose7]

I'm not sure that it is a problem with my cloner. I've honestly never checked pH or temp on my res while cloning. I guess I've been very luck not to have anything go wrong yet. The ezcloner does have a temperature strip on the inside, but you have to lift the lid to see it.

I am assuming if everyone else is having heat issues, I am probably in the same boat. I do have a small CL-85 chiller sitting idle in the closet that I could use as well, I just don't want to add another pump to the equation and the IceProbe looks like a good alternative to the problem.

I think I'm almost negligent in my cloning practices and seem to get 100% with my system. It is definitely more a testament to the gear and not the grower in my case.

You have been lucky! I read all the horror stories before I got my T48 and just figured that those users didn't have enough experience using the device. My first two sessions came off without a hitch and it appeared to be a no brainer process. But after this last and final session when I ended up with flowering cuttings, I went through exactly the same problems!

Black stem rot, and growing pond scum inside the reservoir. I didn't change anything I was doing except adding some Clonex solution to the mix on the 3rd day. BIG MISTAKE! I thought it would help force the flowering cuttings to think more about rooting and less about flowering! All it did was give food for the microbes to start breeding and start attacking my lazy cuttings who could care less about putting out root spikes!

Wishful thinking I know, and it only created a bigger problem later! As you know, I eventually did get ONE viable Blue Cheese clone out of the deal and the three Northern Lights cuttings that were not flowering all rooted fine, but I lost the other 17 BC cuttings to stem rot.

It was a complete disaster! My temps were never the issue, but it did prove to me how WRONG a cloning session in one of these contraptions can go!

No more taking cuttings after July 15th from outdoor BC plants! Who would have thunk that some of them can start thinking about flowering that early!

 

[Mr. Krip]

UPDATE - NEW LED IS IN!

The new BlackStar 500w LED came in today and it looks good!

Here it is hanging in the tent (off):

Also, when I was talking about the reasons I chose the BlackStar, I forgot to mention the cooling system, which is important to LED's even though the lights don't diffuse heat like and HID or HPS, they still get hot and good cooling will help prolong the life.

Anyways...the BlackStart has eight cooling fans:

Here's the light configuration:

Here she is on:

And, lighting up the tent:

Also, I took one more PE clone today from the Bonsai:

And here's my current plan....

I was originally planning on 6 clones at a time, and because each tray will hold 12, increments of 6 work out nicely. Then, when the rockwool clones I thought were dead came back to life, I thought I might get 12 clones in the first round, even though the TK clones were started almost two weeks later.

Well, it's just not enough time to catch up, and right now I have 7 GOOD clones that are all ready to go (the front seven):

So, those seven are going in by the weekend. I just need to paint and prepare the 2L hempys.

Then, in another couple of weeks, I'll most likely put in five more clones to bring the number up to 12. Hopefully, those five will be 2 PE's, 2 PS, and a Lucy.

By then, the PS and Lucy Bonsai moms-to-be should be ready to take more than 1 or two clones at a time and maybe I can then get to 12 clones in a cycle.

I still need to find some temporary spot for the TK while I finish the girls in flower.

Happy Harvests!

K

 

[ThatOneGuyy]

very nice light. I was recently researching LED lighting so it will be great to see how it turns out. Since I am limited to insufficient ventilation for now, LED seems like a great alternative to a HID lamp. I've been skeptical so Im watching LED grows.

As for the cloner machines, Its good to see all the first hand reviews on it and possible issues products like that have. I like to have an understanding of what I will and plan on purchasing before actually buying it.

 

[Mr. Krip]

The new light looks cool. Do you have an amp meter to see how much current it is really drawing ?

I don't, although maybe I'll get one at some point to play, but my understanding is that actual draw is right around 300w.

 

[420fied]

Love the new LED Mr. I look forward to watching it produce for you!

 

[OldMedMan]

Never had a problem with early yellowing.

I think most experienced growers would go along with the 18/6 cycle. I don't know anyone personally that uses 24/0 for anything but germination.

You know one now! ME!