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- #861
2 Liter Hempy SOG
- Thread starter 420fied
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16.7743433 degrees.
lol.. j/k
Still waiting
16.7743433 degrees.
lol.. j/k
There's always one in the crowd. But usually I'm the one.
[Last post on this, at least the last post that isn't in its own thread somewhere.]
<SCRATCHES HEAD> It might be me that's misunderstanding... me. Wouldn't be the first time.
If I understand things correctly - and none of us are safe in assuming that is the case - it's incorrect to say that a 600-watt HPS light "produces ~2100BTU of heat per hour." Rather, the light "uses the equivalent of ~2100 BTU of energy (e) per hour - some fraction (which would vary according to how efficient the thing is at producing light) of which being turned into heat (h) and the rest being turned into light (l)." And I'm wondering what the value of (h) is.
(*)Well... That wouldn't be exactly correct, because a bit of the illumination which the light produced would also contribute to the overall heat produced; that which was in the infrared part of the spectrum, that which is absorbed into things instead of being reflected, et cetera. But at this point I'm just shooting for a wild ballpark figure. Like to have one for each type/wattage of light that is used for growing indoors.
And I may have fallen out of the logic tree completely and not realize it yet. I used to be a bit of a scientist. Then I was a bit of a mad scientist. Now, I often fear that I'm just a bit mad.
<SCRATCHES HEAD> It might be me that's misunderstanding... me. Wouldn't be the first time.
If I understand things correctly - and none of us are safe in assuming that is the case
- it's incorrect to say that a 600-watt HPS light "produces ~2100BTU of heat per hour." Rather, the light "uses the equivalent of ~2100 BTU of energy (e) per hour - some fraction (which would vary according to how efficient the thing is at producing light) of which being turned into heat (h) and the rest being turned into light (l)." And I'm wondering what the value of (h) is.HEY!!! Try this one on for size (I'm really slow on Sunday mornings): "I wish I knew just how efficient those 600-watt HPS light setups are (expressed as a percentage). Then I could easily figure out how much heat they give off, because I could take the total energy consumed, multiply that amount by the percentage (efficiency amount), and subtract that from the total energy used. The remainder would be the amount of heat produced(*)."
Those old laws of conservation of energy in an isolated system/equation (energy can change its location within the system, and that it can change form within the system, for instance chemical energy can become kinetic energy, but that energy can be neither created nor destroyed), first law of thermodynamics, et cetera that crotchety old Miss Donaldson said I really would find a use for some day in the real world... really do have a use in the real world, lol.
(*)Well... That wouldn't be exactly correct, because a bit of the illumination which the light produced would also contribute to the overall heat produced; that which was in the infrared part of the spectrum, that which is absorbed into things instead of being reflected, et cetera. But at this point I'm just shooting for a wild ballpark figure. Like to have one for each type/wattage of light that is used for growing indoors.
And I may have fallen out of the logic tree completely and not realize it yet. I used to be a bit of a scientist. Then I was a bit of a mad scientist. Now, I often fear that I'm just a bit mad.
- Thread starter
- #865
At this point the water is over my head TS. lol!
HiTimes4Me
New Member
I thought btu's were just a measurement of thermal energy *produced* by a given object not how much energy *consumed*...so if a 600w generates 2100btu while operating it would be 2100 btu's of heating 100% 2100btu of heat
Hmmm... Been thinking about such thing lately so I size the air conditioner correctly for my new grow room. Since BTU=British thermal unit, I would assume (I know it's dangerous to assume
) that it's all heat. The better question might be how much of the energy enters the room as radiant heat and how much is carried away by the air-flow through the hood. Lots of variables too...air temps, CFM through the hoods, wether or not ducts and hoods are insulated, etc.Is there a chart somewhere that takes everything into account? I'd love to find such a thing.
snipped article from bghydro site;
HID grow lights add 3.41 BTUs per watt, per hour (1,000 watts = 3,400 BTUs). In a sealed, windowless 4-by-8-foot grow room in a sunny apartment, about 3,000 BTUs worth of heat energy will build up over the course of an hour. But with two 1,000-watt lights and two digital ballasts* running in that room, that figure jumps to about 16,000 BTUs per hour, or 14,000 BTUs (20 percent less) if those lights are air cooled.
If the ballasts are less-efficient magnetic models, the total BTUs per hour increase by 2,000. A CO2 generator sized for that room will add 600 BTUs, and if the room is being dehumidified by a 40-pint dehumidifier, that will add up to 1,200 BTUs.
With all that equipment running, the room will be generating a total of 19,800 BTUs in one hour (15,800 BTUs for air-cooled lights).
One ton of air conditioning is equal to 12,000 BTUs, so to determine what size air conditioner you will need to fully counter that heat, divide the total number of BTUs your equipment is generating by 12,000 (19,800/12,000 = 1.65 tons or 15,800/12,000 = 1.31 tons for air-cooled lights).
For the 4-by-8-foot grow room listed above, running the lights at night could shave up to 1,000 BTUs off the total amount of heat energy generated each hour. Removing the two ballasts from the growing space can cut heat buildup by another 5,000 BTUs per hour*.
Air temperature is far from the grower’s only concern. During summer, high outdoor temps and hot grow lights can easily conspire to push hydroponics reservoir temperatures past the 80-degree mark, increasing the likelihood of disease and root rot, which will be evident when plants begin to wilt in even the slightest heat. This is especially important when using systems such as Deep Water Culture (DWC), as higher temps will have a direct and dramatic impact on oxygen levels in the nutrient solution as well as the growth of pathogens.
Photosynthesis slows to a halt when grow room temperatures reach 85 degrees, but not in a CO2-enriched grow room. With a CO2 tank, a REG-1 CO2 Regulator / Valve and a PPM4 - CO2 PPM Monitor/Controller, growers can attain a concentration of CO2 that may allow plants to tolerate temperatures as high as 90 degrees before experiencing the adverse effects of heat stress. That requires CO2 levels in the growing area to reach 1,500 PPM, about three times what’s found in typical urban air.
One quick and easy way to boost the CO2 level is the Excellofizz CO2 Kit, which can raise the amount of CO2 in a 10-by-10 room by about 1,600 PPM. After purchasing one or two Excellofizz kits to test the impact that CO2 will have on their yield, many customers learn that, in the long run, it’s much less expensive to purchase a CO2 tank or CO2 generator and a controller rather than purchasing Excellofizz every month. Once your garden responds to CO2 and you are convinced of its impact, we strongly recommend making the investment on a more permanent and controllable solution that CO2 tanks, regulators and generators offer.
But heat can be an issue even when CO2 is being used. Remember that the optimal temperature for harnessing explosive growth via CO2 is below 85 degrees, and even lower during the last two weeks of flowering. To determine the proper CO2 level and flow rate for your grow room, use the BGH CO2 Calculator.
The Excel Air Compact Split A/C -- 3000 watt will cool the heat radiating from as much as 3,000 watts worth of lighting. These split-system designs feature an indoor air handler with a squirrel-cage blower that cools the growing area while the outdoor condensing unit removes heat from your garden to the fresh air outside.
If you have a much larger growing space with six to 15 lights and you’re looking for a way to discretely bring cool air to your grow room, you will need a unit capable of quietly combating much more heat, like the Excel Air Stealth Cooling System, which offers six models rated from 24,000 BTUs to a whopping 60,000 BTUs. These plug-and-play units come with a 40-foot pre-charged refrigeration line, so all the user needs to do is thread the fittings together to get started. And since the fittings are re-sealable, the unit can be dismantled, relocated and re-installed without losing refrigerant and without an expensive certified installer, saving you lots of money.
HID grow lights add 3.41 BTUs per watt, per hour (1,000 watts = 3,400 BTUs). In a sealed, windowless 4-by-8-foot grow room in a sunny apartment, about 3,000 BTUs worth of heat energy will build up over the course of an hour. But with two 1,000-watt lights and two digital ballasts* running in that room, that figure jumps to about 16,000 BTUs per hour, or 14,000 BTUs (20 percent less) if those lights are air cooled.
If the ballasts are less-efficient magnetic models, the total BTUs per hour increase by 2,000. A CO2 generator sized for that room will add 600 BTUs, and if the room is being dehumidified by a 40-pint dehumidifier, that will add up to 1,200 BTUs.
With all that equipment running, the room will be generating a total of 19,800 BTUs in one hour (15,800 BTUs for air-cooled lights).
One ton of air conditioning is equal to 12,000 BTUs, so to determine what size air conditioner you will need to fully counter that heat, divide the total number of BTUs your equipment is generating by 12,000 (19,800/12,000 = 1.65 tons or 15,800/12,000 = 1.31 tons for air-cooled lights).
For the 4-by-8-foot grow room listed above, running the lights at night could shave up to 1,000 BTUs off the total amount of heat energy generated each hour. Removing the two ballasts from the growing space can cut heat buildup by another 5,000 BTUs per hour*.
Air temperature is far from the grower’s only concern. During summer, high outdoor temps and hot grow lights can easily conspire to push hydroponics reservoir temperatures past the 80-degree mark, increasing the likelihood of disease and root rot, which will be evident when plants begin to wilt in even the slightest heat. This is especially important when using systems such as Deep Water Culture (DWC), as higher temps will have a direct and dramatic impact on oxygen levels in the nutrient solution as well as the growth of pathogens.
Photosynthesis slows to a halt when grow room temperatures reach 85 degrees, but not in a CO2-enriched grow room. With a CO2 tank, a REG-1 CO2 Regulator / Valve and a PPM4 - CO2 PPM Monitor/Controller, growers can attain a concentration of CO2 that may allow plants to tolerate temperatures as high as 90 degrees before experiencing the adverse effects of heat stress. That requires CO2 levels in the growing area to reach 1,500 PPM, about three times what’s found in typical urban air.
One quick and easy way to boost the CO2 level is the Excellofizz CO2 Kit, which can raise the amount of CO2 in a 10-by-10 room by about 1,600 PPM. After purchasing one or two Excellofizz kits to test the impact that CO2 will have on their yield, many customers learn that, in the long run, it’s much less expensive to purchase a CO2 tank or CO2 generator and a controller rather than purchasing Excellofizz every month. Once your garden responds to CO2 and you are convinced of its impact, we strongly recommend making the investment on a more permanent and controllable solution that CO2 tanks, regulators and generators offer.
But heat can be an issue even when CO2 is being used. Remember that the optimal temperature for harnessing explosive growth via CO2 is below 85 degrees, and even lower during the last two weeks of flowering. To determine the proper CO2 level and flow rate for your grow room, use the BGH CO2 Calculator.
The Excel Air Compact Split A/C -- 3000 watt will cool the heat radiating from as much as 3,000 watts worth of lighting. These split-system designs feature an indoor air handler with a squirrel-cage blower that cools the growing area while the outdoor condensing unit removes heat from your garden to the fresh air outside.
If you have a much larger growing space with six to 15 lights and you’re looking for a way to discretely bring cool air to your grow room, you will need a unit capable of quietly combating much more heat, like the Excel Air Stealth Cooling System, which offers six models rated from 24,000 BTUs to a whopping 60,000 BTUs. These plug-and-play units come with a 40-foot pre-charged refrigeration line, so all the user needs to do is thread the fittings together to get started. And since the fittings are re-sealable, the unit can be dismantled, relocated and re-installed without losing refrigerant and without an expensive certified installer, saving you lots of money.
Interesting. I'll reread your snipped info and the .PDF you linked carefully.
One question: Do either (or both) of those sites sell air-conditioners, by chance? It's just that I remember a friend once telling me to take the advice of the local "hot rodder" with a grain of salt when he said I needed to install headers on my Turbo Regal when I was only at 412HP... since the guy happened to sell headers, lol. (And my friend turned out to be correct. But that's certainly not proof that I shouldn't take the advice about heat production in a grow room as gospel just because they might enjoy selling me an air conditioner (if, in fact, they do carry such things, of course). I'm just sayin', lol.)
I'll definitely do some more reading, though. Thanks for the information and link!
One question: Do either (or both) of those sites sell air-conditioners, by chance? It's just that I remember a friend once telling me to take the advice of the local "hot rodder" with a grain of salt when he said I needed to install headers on my Turbo Regal when I was only at 412HP... since the guy happened to sell headers, lol. (And my friend turned out to be correct. But that's certainly not proof that I shouldn't take the advice about heat production in a grow room as gospel just because they might enjoy selling me an air conditioner (if, in fact, they do carry such things, of course). I'm just sayin', lol.)
I'll definitely do some more reading, though. Thanks for the information and link!
- Thread starter
- #870
Good stuff guys. Keep the interaction going because you guys teach me more than I teach you.
so nice to see some awesome colas after that, it made my brain itch. Thinking of sandpaper. till I load a bowl.
Mrgivemethat
New Member
Hey FIED check my update its huge 25 pics.
420, have you considered utilizing the co2 from hot water tank? I'm possibly going to add that into my space since there is a new tank in close proximity. There's also a gas floor furnace. Both vents are easy to tap with a Y in flow and use a 110 power damper linked to a co2 controller. If we ran the shower and did dishes and such at the time lights come on this could boost levels. Not so sure a burner or tank is needed except maybe later on in conjunction with the water tank vent. Anyone have experience using this method as supplemental source of co2 enrichment?
Another constraint for consideration would be a chiller for water. Both in cloner and nute res. Any thoughts for summer temps and the added ability to run on auto for days at a time. The chillers I remember that were best were homemade type.
Peace
Another constraint for consideration would be a chiller for water. Both in cloner and nute res. Any thoughts for summer temps and the added ability to run on auto for days at a time. The chillers I remember that were best were homemade type.
Peace
- Thread starter
- #874
As far as c02 goes.. that's the one thing that I haven't did a ton of research on so I am open to suggestions. I have so much to get done that the c02 will be one of the last things I address. I'm knee deep in other things right now but we will def revisit the c02 discussion very soon.
I actually have a 1/10 HP chiller sitting here. It'll cool an 85 gallon res. However, I've found that in the summer, I can freeze 2 liters full of water and stick them in my cloner res which only has about 12 gallons in it, and it keeps them pretty cool. I have several in the freezer at any one time so I can trade them out. However, if I need to utilize a chiller, I already have one. Most likely I will build (1) 100 site cloner to go along with my 50 site cloner.
I appreciate your thoughts and feedback.
- Thread starter
- #875
Quick update:
Met with Heating/Cooling company today. They wanted 2600 to add a coil to a forced air gas furnace which is a little high considering the square footage, so I'm getting two or three more estimates.
Met with Heating/Cooling company today. They wanted 2600 to add a coil to a forced air gas furnace which is a little high considering the square footage, so I'm getting two or three more estimates.
dragontoker
New Member
You already have the condenser outside? Cause depending upon the tonnage, installing a an evaporator A coil on your furnace and condenser outside, 2600 doesnt seem like a bad price for install and materials.
Getting more estimates is always a good idea.
A good company doesnt just go by your square footage, they will do an energy audit. They need to take into account the amount of windows you have, how the home is insulated etc etc
Getting more estimates is always a good idea.
A good company doesnt just go by your square footage, they will do an energy audit. They need to take into account the amount of windows you have, how the home is insulated etc etc
- Thread starter
- #878
Completely understand. No condenser outside. Small dwelling. I bet I can get it done for less than 2. I'll keep you in the loop. Make sure you check back in puff. You seem to know your stuff and I like using you as a resource. Thank you.
- Thread starter
- #879
T5's over my moms. HPS units to flower.
dragontoker
New Member
I just read a lot. Went to school for HVAC but I ended up in a side field.
I learn way more from your journals then you will ever learn from me.
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