Advanced Nutrients PH Perfect Nutes

I have no problem with the ad itself, Or AN. I say to each their own. I just hate the race to the bottom in this industry. If their product is good, why take a shot at the people your copying. They (AN) tell you how they're (GH) ripping you off, then try to sell you their high priced formula. GH, HNG, Botainicare, dyna-Gro could all do the same thing to them. Put out their own version of the AN staples and sell it at half the price. It's just pointless. But yes the Oregon State article doesn't put them in a very good light. However samples taken off of store shelves could easily have been tampered with. It may have been purchased, dulited and returned. So I agree they should be given the opportunity to do some splainin.
 
HEy HEy for Dyna-Gro Products...

Hey But keep it a secret, can`t spread the good word ,then ya know up goes the Price! ;-)
Dyna ROX
as they say Dirt CHEAP!
 
I re-organized your post a little to group relevant posts so everyone can follow along more easily. Nothing was changed, I just moved things around.

stevehman said:
Go to the Oregon State page and look at their lab analysis of the AN Big Bud.
State of Oregon: Oregon Department of Agriculture

I don't know how much lead and mercury you consider acceptable in your meds, but something closer to zero would be a good number.
Click to expand...

"Closer to zero". These are closer to zero. Closer to zero than you'll find in nearly every natural environment on the planet. Do you have any idea what the odds are of someone finding lower heavy metal concentrations in the soil in their back yard?

The levels present in the nutrient linked above are astronomically low. You can have something like 200-300ppm lead and the EPA says that's safe to eat. Eat, mind you, not just to grow in but it's safe to eat.

Closer to zero... lol.

We're talking ppm. Parts per million. Single digits might as well be zero.

stevehman said:
Here's one page here, you can see that almost all of the micro nutrients are are way below what they are guaranteeing on the label. That is what you can and can't put on labels. Basically if you are lying about what is in the product you can't sell it in Oregon at least.
Oregon Department of Agriculture: Pesticide and Fertilizer Programs
Click to expand...

That's two years old. No one is about to jump into a time machine, go back two years, and buy nutrients. None of us know any of the facts surrounding that particular report so for all we know it was a fluke. It's one product out of everything that they made and it was, to be clear, two years ago.

stevehman said:
Here's another page that you can do more research on.
State of Oregon: Oregon Department of Agriculture
Click to expand...

Interesting stuff there, but nothing damning I can find.

stevehman said:
And since this is a state report, I don't think it qualifies as BS, so a simple "sorry, I didn't bother to Google it myself before I called you a liar" would be fine.
Click to expand...

Since I actually know a thing or two about Environmental Health I did not expect you to be freaking out over the heavy metal levels you cited. Thus no amount of "Google-fu" would have revealed to me the links you provided because I would have written them off - just as I have here - as absolutely nothing to be concerned with.

My inability to find any evidence that Advanced Nutrients actually had concern-worthy levels of heavy metals was not because I didn't bother to look for myself, but rather because there is nothing to find. That you mistook those ppm as cause for worry is not my fault and I'm not going to apologize for that.
 
So the fact that the lab results are 2 years old, and the State of Oregon still has a stop sales order on them in your mind is irrelevant. Wouldn't you (if you owned the company) reapply to have your nutrients retested? Heavy metals aside, the real issue with them is that they grossly overstated the amount of micro-nutrients in their products. If they advertise a guaranteed content of 7% Mg and the lab results showed 0.0148%, that is a huge error. The majority of the micros are grossly under the stated % on the label. So let's say it was a random sample, doesn't AN test their own nutrients before sending them out, something along the lines of Quality Control?

And it wasn't just one product listed on the stop sales order, it is most of them. And the list was just updated the 27th of this month, AND most of the stop sales orders were posted in 2010. ODA Pesticides Division Fertilizer program stop sales

The reason there's a stop sales order is for mis-labeling. I would think that Oregon is a large enough potential market that they would fight to have the order lifted. I don't know the mechanisms required to do that, but I can't think that it's so Byzantine that AN wouldn't fight it.

I am sure you are an AN user and have great results, that is great. I find that for the price they charge, they should have much tighter control of their quality.

One last thought, if other nutrient companies can get the heavy metals levels much lower then why doesn't AN do that?. I personally don't care what the EPA says, the FDA says you can have rat feces in your food, but I guarantee if I find a rat turd in my cereal I am not buying that brand ever again. As for my backyard soil, I'm not paying $20 a liter for backyard soil. I'm paying $20 a liter for a high-quality product that will have what it guarantees on the label.
 
stevehman said:
So the fact that the lab results are 2 years old, and the State of Oregon still has a stop sales order on them in your mind is irrelevant. Wouldn't you (if you owned the company) reapply to have your nutrients retested?
Click to expand...

Every time a product is submitted they create a new entry for it. So when they re-apply it's considered a new product and the old entry is not deleted.

stevehman said:
If they advertise a guaranteed content of 7% Mg and the lab results showed 0.0148%, that is a huge error. The majority of the micros are grossly under the stated % on the label. So let's say it was a random sample, doesn't AN test their own nutrients before sending them out, something along the lines of Quality Control?
Click to expand...

If we actually knew a damn thing about what actually happened we could draw some conclusions. As it stands all we have is this report that may or may not be misleading and no real way to pursue answers.

Some people don't want answers, they want rumors and innuendo, and this is excellent fuel for that fire. My point is simply that without more information it's impossible to draw any conclusions with any certainty.

stevehman said:
The reason there's a stop sales order is for mis-labeling.
Click to expand...

Yes, but we don't know what it is. The ultimate underlying reason isn't included in the report, only the measured data. Perhaps you know that there's more than one way to measure for any specific dissolved solid? And therefore you'd know that different tests often yield different results?

If you sent the same fertilizer to six different labs for testing you would not get the same NPK results unless all six labs ran the same types of tests.

stevehman said:
I would think that Oregon is a large enough potential market that they would fight to have the order lifted. I don't know the mechanisms required to do that, but I can't think that it's so Byzantine that AN wouldn't fight it.
Click to expand...

The internet. You can buy anything from anywhere and there is little to no actual attention paid to whether it's legal to sell where you reside. I have stuff sitting within arm's reach - not even counting plants - that I bought online and isn't remotely legal to own anywhere in the US.

Would it be better to sell it in stores in Oregon? Undoubtedly. Are any of us aware of what AN is doing to make that happen? NO.

So yes, we'd all assume AN is fighting this. None of us see it happening. But instead of asking why they aren't fighting it, ask yourself how we'd even know if they were or not. For all we know they're fighting tooth and nail. It's not like this makes the evening news.

stevehman said:
One last thought, if other nutrient companies can get the heavy metals levels much lower then why doesn't AN do that?. I personally don't care what the EPA says, the FDA says you can have rat feces in your food, but I guarantee if I find a rat turd in my cereal I am not buying that brand ever again. As for my backyard soil, I'm not paying $20 a liter for backyard soil. I'm paying $20 a liter for a high-quality product that will have what it guarantees on the label.
Click to expand...

Show me what you're comparing. Which AN product to which non-AN product. This "someone made something that was somewhat different" is not even an argument. Odds are any statement that vague could theoretically be true. For all I know you're talking about some company's pH Up compared to one of AN's base nutes.

Your point about the EPA and rat feces is sensationalist and, for those who know what you're talking about, actually works against you.

If you found a rat turd in your cereal, that would be a violation of the FDA's (not EPA's) Food Defect Action Level. So not only is your food regulated by a different agency, but you're exaggerating. The amount of rat feces considered allowable by the FDA is both unavoidable and not harmful. If you think you've ever eaten a food that didn't contain some type of feces, you're almost certainly wrong.

You have feces on your hands at this very moment unless you've recently scrubbed in for surgery, and even then it's unlikely your hands are truly clean.

The concept of having ANYTHING completely devoid of harmful substances is an illusion in real life.

Clean rooms aren't actually perfectly clean, your breakfast cereal DOES have feces in it... our world is absolutely drenched in filth.


It's the degree of it that's the issue. If you actually removed a human being from all infectious vectors their immune system would atrophy to the point that the slightest infectious material could be potentially life-threatening.


But the point, really, is that the EPA is not the FDA, rat feces is not a heavy metal, and if you can visually detect a contaminate that's universally unacceptable by the FDA anyway. The fact that the level of obsession over the perception of sterilization and cleanliness is actually unhealthy for more than one reason, and that modern society's belief in the potential of "perfectly clean" is ludicrous and laughable is just another nail in the coffin.



It's a filthy world. We're filthy animals. We've all ingested dead cells, feces, and anything else you think of from everyone we've ever lived with and countless complete strangers. That doesn't make the effort of trying to be clean pointless, but it does make worrying about a few ppm of something found in larger concentrations in your everyday environment a bit crazy.
 
Nobody forces me to purchase A.N's or not. Some of them their nutrients I prefer over others, but I don't need a "nanny state" to tell me otherwise. Let the buyer beware.
 
Please don't misquote me, I referred to the FDA as the cognizant agency responsible for food safety. I was just using them as an example of another governmental agency that is tasked with providing consumer safety.

Rumor and innuendo? These are FACTS, derived through laboratory analysis by the Oregon State Dept of Agriculture. I am sure they know a thing or two about testing fertilizers for their constituent components. To have one of the 3 major components to be that far off (N-P-K) is either error on the laboratory technician in which case he should be fired and an apology issued to A.N. But I am fairly sure they do multiple tests to confirm their findings. SO, if the test was accurate, then the tech responsible for mixing the ingredients at the factory should be fired and an announcement to consumers (via recall) should have been issued.

I've never said that A.N. products were crap and couldn't grow great meds. In fact they have a loyal following and a lot of people swear by them. I just want to know that I am getting what I pay for.

You obviously have more time on your hands to defend A.N. than I care to spend. Based on the majority of the remainder of your posts here on 420, they all seem to be in support or defense of A.N. So either you are a very loyal, satisfied and informed customer, or you are in some form or fashion an employee of A.N. Not one to buy into conspiracy theories, I find it interesting that the newest product is Jungle Juice...basementjungl? No,I'm sure it's just a coincidence.

Lastly, I'd like to thank them for being sponsors here at 420magazine and supporting the community. Thanks Big Mike!

I've already way more time and energy on this thread that was initially about pH perfect, which is a product I thought I wanted to try. That is, if they ever get it on the shelves in California.
 
Only 34 of AN's products are on the ODA's Fertilizer/Pesticide Division's "Stop Sale List." AN makes and markets a lot of products so that's probably not ALL of them.

I just did a search on the ODA website and out of 75 AN products, only nine are listed as "Canceled by registrant" under the status column. So AN has apparently chosen to have a great many of its products (re?)tested.

Anyone who is really concerned should check out both the page linked in post #86 of this thread and the various links on that page in order to read about the ODA's testing, methods, what exactly constitutes a violation (see ORS 633 in its entirety), et cetera.

And if you are really curious and would rather get answers than argue in slow motion in a web forum (lol), like it states right on the ODA web page, "For questions about these products, please call (503) 986-4635." You may, if you like, ask them directly yourself. You may also ask about their testing methods, lab certifications, what constitutes mislabeling (seems straightforward to me but...), what the fee (if any) is to have a product tested, if retesting is free, et cetera. But if you choose to do so I would strongly recommend that you read through the available information on their website first so as to not waste their time.
 
Interesting to find out.

Not trying to jack the thread, but maybe some of you PRO AN users could help via PM. But Im trying to use the AN 3 Part
Nutes32.jpg


Just about ready to throw the girls into some soil and Im afraid as to the feeding schedule. AN's website was a little "Advanced" for me, as this is my first grow, thanks for the info guys!!:peace:
 
I'm looking over my shoulder... as there will be other growers here who provide specific information to your question. And they'll likely ask you more questions about your setup/grow, etc.

As a beginner, the rule of thumb is to start slow, and increase PPM slowly (weekly). For soil... depending on what type of soil you have, you may not need any nutes for 2-3 weeks. The better soil mixes have enough nutrients and good stuff in them already. So the first watering(s) are plain water.

The process I use for making a nute solution for AN 3-part is:
1 pH balance
and then add desired amount of
2 Micro
3 Grow
4 Bloom (in this order)

I stick to the 1-1-1 ratio... equal parts of G,M,B.

If you will study this site enough you will locate PPM guidelines for growing in soil and/or hydro. Typical PPM values will be 100-200 at beginning of a grow, and increasing upwards of 1700 ppm by harvest.

Does this help?

I could likely find a good guideline as I'm about to start a new soil grow too.
;)
 
Outa-Space said:
I'm looking over my shoulder... as there will be other growers here who provide specific information to your question. And they'll likely ask you more questions about your setup/grow, etc.

As a beginner, the rule of thumb is to start slow, and increase PPM slowly (weekly). For soil... depending on what type of soil you have, you may not need any nutes for 2-3 weeks. The better soil mixes have enough nutrients and good stuff in them already. So the first watering(s) are plain water.

The process I use for making a nute solution for AN 3-part is:
1 pH balance
and then add desired amount of
2 Micro
3 Grow
4 Bloom (in this order)

I stick to the 1-1-1 ratio... equal parts of G,M,B.

If you will study this site enough you will locate PPM guidelines for growing in soil and/or hydro. Typical PPM values will be 100-200 at beginning of a grow, and increasing upwards of 1700 ppm by harvest.

Does this help?

I could likely find a good guideline as I'm about to start a new soil grow too.
;)
Click to expand...

Not looking to jack the thread, but I cant PM you ATM. Maybe you could stop by my journal, some/if not all the info I can give you should be there. Would be much appreciated! :yahoo:

But my biggest concern is amounts for AF plants, and I do have a PPM/PH tester.
 
Outa-Space said:
I'm looking over my shoulder... as there will be other growers here who provide specific information to your question. And they'll likely ask you more questions about your setup/grow, etc.

As a beginner, the rule of thumb is to start slow, and increase PPM slowly (weekly). For soil... depending on what type of soil you have, you may not need any nutes for 2-3 weeks. The better soil mixes have enough nutrients and good stuff in them already. So the first watering(s) are plain water.

The process I use for making a nute solution for AN 3-part is:
1 pH balance
and then add desired amount of
2 Micro
3 Grow
4 Bloom (in this order)

I stick to the 1-1-1 ratio... equal parts of G,M,B.

If you will study this site enough you will locate PPM guidelines for growing in soil and/or hydro. Typical PPM values will be 100-200 at beginning of a grow, and increasing upwards of 1700 ppm by harvest.

Does this help?

I could likely find a good guideline as I'm about to start a new soil grow too.
;)
Click to expand...

Great and easy advice about AN here.

Really impressive, given what some people will tell you about the nutrients to use.

That said, I can't believe this thread just won't die. It goes to show just how interested people are in the AN lineup, what it is, and how it can help growers. Or at least, pique their curiosity. LOL

That's what happened to me, anyway. A little reading here and I was sold on them.

Just getting back from vacation though, so I'm not sure what's been happening on the boards. I need to do some catching up, I think.
 
Won't die... lol, well stated.
Some of the squabbling that's gone back-n-forth over nutes is just sad. I hate pissing contests.

It took me a while to realize this, but we all can be successful gardeners by using quality nutrients. They're many to choose from. I like AN too, but... I want to try other products... I'm just curious that way.

If beginners didn't have to wade through some of the controversy... and instead just get the straight dope about nutrients/additives, no pun intended, they could save a few bucks and more importantly gain confidence and be successful from the start. And then become active supporters of sites like 420!
 
Sensibowl said:
I can't believe this thread just won't die.
Click to expand...

It is a company known, at least at times, for being somewhat controversial. Which by itself is neither a bad thing nor a good one - it's just a thing, lol.

And their nutrients do seem to provide results.
 
TorturedSoul said:
It is a company known, at least at times, for being somewhat controversial. Which by itself is neither a bad thing nor a good one - it's just a thing, lol.

And their nutrients do seem to provide results.
Click to expand...

Very true. I'll keep using their nutrients until I find something better, and I don't really care that much about controversy. All the top dogs are usually controversial in some way. The nature of standing at the top of the ladder is everyone sees you, scrutinizes you, and finds (or just makes up) reasons to like or not like you.

It's just human nature.
 

Similar threads

R
Can I pre-mix nutes 14 days in advance?
Replies
10
Views
12K
RandyL
R
K
Who's Using the pH Perfect Technology?
Replies
7
Views
9K
SpaceGhost
SpaceGhost
Goldengoose7
The Best Soil PH Meter / Moisture Meter?
Replies
5
Views
40K
RGrandall
R
B
PH perfect! - Do you mix and still stable pH!
Replies
11
Views
4K
homegrower
H
fanleaf
Anyone Use AB pH Perfect In Soil?
Replies
2
Views
1K
fanleaf
fanleaf
Back
Top Bottom