Any help is welcome

[newfarmeragain]

I just wanted to pop in an mention that when a plant is very young like this, it can be a little rough until the plant gets some roots down. For some reason, all of my seedlings get off to a rough start when transplanted to soil. (I start in pete pellets and move to soil such as happy frog). Young plants are sensitive to nutrient loaded soil, but they get hungy fast.

So, basically the first few sets of leaves are only temporary. As more leaves come in and the roots go deeper, the plant can bounce back nice and healthy. You could start over, but I think this one will get healthy soon. The new leaves look healthy to me, I think you plant is getting ready to take off !

Be careful not to overwater, they dont need a lot when they are this small. (looking at your soil it seems to be decently watered, I dont see overwatered soil..)

Yeah, i hope, just like you said, that now it starts to evolve into a beautiful plant . The new leaves come out looking beautiful and healthy but when you least expect them they die... and just notice the leaves below these newer ones, now they are curling their tip upwards and the serration on the side of it is curved downwards...

 

[Ancient Green]

Yeah, i hope, just like you said, that now it starts to evolve into a beautiful plant . The new leaves come out looking beautiful and healthy but when you least expect them they die... and just notice the leaves below these newer ones, now they are curling their tip upwards and the serration on the side of it is curved downwards...

Remember, the first few set of leaves looks like everything now, but soon they wont matter at all.... Its a matter of getting those healthy leaves to take off. As long as you havent overwatered to the point of pathogens (root rot, etc), you should be fine.

Here is what I would do. Let that plant dry out to the point where its thirsty, it might take longer than you think. Its not good to underwater, but overwatering is 100 times worse. So, let it get thirsty (leaves will let you know). You want to eliminate the chance that you are over watering. After the leaves droop a bit, you can weigh the plant with a scale or by hand to see how light it feels. Now you can water, (lightly) until the plant gets dry again. Plants actually love a dry spell and its good for them, too much water is the worst thing you can do. Growers make the mistake of over watering all the time.. (including me)... even experienced growers. Those dry days can really green things up, you'll be amazed !

Here is what I tell a lot of new growers. I want you to kill your plant by not watering it. So, they stop watering in an attempt to kill their plant just as I instruct.. Crazy huh? In many cases their plant is on the way to death anyway so there is little risk here)

Now here is where it gets interesting. Many new growers water daily or every other day. (really bad)... So they stop watering. Days go by, maybe even a week without water and guess what, The plant starts to explode in a good way. It gets green and healthy and takes off? how the hell can this be ? Plants LIKE and need a Wet and Dry routine, both are very important. Without a dry spell, its bad news, especially with young plants.

So, kill your plant by not watering it and I almost guarantee you will fail.... (Fail to kill your plant that is)....

Also, I'm not sure if you mentioned what nutrients your using, a little Nitrogen (Veg Nutrients) and a dry day or two always greens things up nicely for me...I'm not sure what the white patches are on your leaves, but I suspect over watering and a lack of Nitrogen.

Last thing, when my plants are young like this its not rare to go 5-7 days without watering (for me and my soil anyway). Once they get roots down, they start drinking a lot more and you can increase watering frequency. Thats a pretty big container you have there for such a young plant, it will take some time for the plant to drink that much water if watered heavily. (I use much smaller containers when this young)

Sorry to type a book, but overwatering is by far the biggest problem new growers have and I wanted to try to help.

 

[newfarmeragain]

Remember, the first few set of leaves looks like everything now, but soon they wont matter at all.... Its a matter of getting those healthy leaves to take off. As long as you havent overwatered to the point of pathogens (root rot, etc), you should be fine.

Here is what I would do. Let that plant dry out to the point where its thirsty, it might take longer than you think. Its not good to underwater, but overwatering is 100 times worse. So, let it get thirsty (leaves will let you know). You want to eliminate the chance that you are over watering. After the leaves droop a bit, you can weigh the plant with a scale or by hand to see how light it feels. Now you can water, (lightly) until the plant gets dry again. Plants actually love a dry spell and its good for them, too much water is the worst thing you can do. Growers make the mistake of over watering all the time.. (including me)... even experienced growers. Those dry days can really green things up, you'll be amazed !

Here is what I tell a lot of new growers. I want you to kill your plant by not watering it. So, they stop watering in an attempt to kill their plant just as I instruct.. Crazy huh? In many cases their plant is on the way to death anyway so there is little risk here)

Now here is where it gets interesting. Many new growers water daily or every other day. (really bad)... So they stop watering. Days go by, maybe even a week without water and guess what, The plant starts to explode in a good way. It gets green and healthy and takes off? how the hell can this be ? Plants LIKE and need a Wet and Dry routine, both are very important. Without a dry spell, its bad news, especially with young plants.

So, kill your plant by not watering it and I almost guarantee you will fail.... (Fail to kill your plant that is)....

Also, I'm not sure if you mentioned what nutrients your using, a little Nitrogen (Veg Nutrients) and a dry day or two always greens things up nicely for me...I'm not sure what the white patches are on your leaves, but I suspect over watering and a lack of Nitrogen.

Last thing, when my plants are young like this its not rare to go 5-7 days without watering (for me and my soil anyway). Once they get roots down, they start drinking a lot more and you can increase watering frequency. Thats a pretty big container you have there for such a young plant, it will take some time for the plant to drink that much water if watered heavily. (I use much smaller containers when this young)

Sorry to type a book, but overwatering is by far the biggest problem new growers have and I wanted to try to help.

Ok, I really need to understand this, I read every word you wrote, thank you very much for your help, I'll try to hold my hand in the water a little... the nutrients I use are the 3 from GH (FloraGro, FloraBloom, FloraMicro). I mix it, water the plant with it and wait for the magic .

 

[Ancient Green]

Ok, I really need to understand this, I read every word you wrote, thank you very much for your help, I'll try to hold my hand in the water a little... the nutrients I use are the 3 from GH (FloraGro, FloraBloom, FloraMicro). I mix it, water the plant with it and wait for the

Sounds like a good nutrient line you have there, go very easy, half dose or so. Just a "taste" until the plant gets leaves.

Let her dry out before watering, it might be more days than you think. After that, water lightly around the plant in a circle, dont soak the entire pot, its too much for the plant to handle at this point.

In my grow environment, a pot and plant this size would require very little water, maybe 1/4 cup or less and many days in between waterings. As it gets bigger, it will take a lot more water. The leaves will tell you if its too dry without causing much damage. See how many days you can go until the plant says "hey human, I'm thirsty". Its a good lesson to learn.

When the plant tells you its over watered, its NOT a good lesson to learn.... It can be a death sentence with difficult problems to solve. (you might already have learned this lesson we will see)

 

[bluter]

start with a simple media like hp promix or sunshine #4 with a little added perlite and nothing else. it will be far easier on you and teach you to feed the plant correct from the get go.

the nutes you have are fine. you'll need some cal-mag and maybe some h2o2 but that should be enough. don't worry about bloom boosters or other things until you get a couple runs proper on base nutes. if you can't grow on base nutes alone you can't grow at all.

get a ph and an ec meter and learn to use them, it's not hard.

with those simple things we can talk you through to a harvest and you'll get valuable experience.

 

[SmokingWings]

I just wanted to pop in an mention that when a plant is very young like this, it can be a little rough until the plant gets some roots down.

I was wondering if it is a case of the root system not being able to keep up with the leaf growth.

First photo in msg #38 shows a small plant with all the new leaves being the same size as older leaves. Once I see the new leaves on my plants growing larger than the previous ones I start to feel that the root system has developed and is keeping up and getting ahead.

 

[Keffka]

First photo in msg #38 shows a small plant with all the new leaves being the same size as older leaves. Once I see the new leaves on my plants growing larger than the previous ones I start to feel that the root system has developed and is keeping up and getting ahead.

Correct. Each set of leaves should get progressively larger in the beginning. If they’re not then your plant is struggling to establish and spread out at its roots. Could be too wet, could be poor mix, could be a few things

 

[Keffka]

Don't put dolomite lime straight on a Cannabis plant. If you're adding dolomite lime you also need to include gypsum to get the right Ca:Mg ratio. Using only dolomite lime is horrible for growing Cannabis since it's has a negative Ca:Mg ratio causing all sorts of lockouts

Yikes. @Wastei is correct about not applying dolomite lime straight to a cannabis plant. Really you want to avoid putting any raw minerals into a container with a growing plant, unless you know what you’re doing and why you’re doing it.

Dolomite lime is a great addition to a soil mix, IF you use the correct formulation, and you plan on balancing it out with something like gypsum and oyster shell, AND you plan on cooking (letting your soil sit moist with good oxygen to begin decomposition) your soil.

 

[newfarmeragain]

I'm calmer now, I'm not dipping my baby in water anymore, I give some sprays and that's it .

Is it common for leaves to grow so close to each other in this way? the distance from one node to another is very small, not to mention that the leaves are covering each other, I do not know if this is what is helping to slow down the development.

 

[Keffka]

I'm calmer now, I'm not dipping my baby in water anymore, I give some sprays and that's it .

Is it common for leaves to grow so close to each other in this way? the distance from one node to another is very small, not to mention that the leaves are covering each other, I do not know if this is what is helping to slow down the development.

Do you have an updated picture showing your concern? Small internode spacing can be quite a few things but I would need to see the whole plant to judge whether its growth or environmental.

From the pictures I’ve seen it looks directly related to your roots. They’re either choked off from oxygen due to poor aeration or the medium has stayed saturated too long preventing oxygen from reaching the roots.

 

[Keffka]

I'm even thinking about trying eggshells as an alternative

Avoid egg shells.. lots of tests have been done to show egg shells don’t release calcium or even break down at a rate we can use as cannabis growers. Even the JADAM mixtures putting egg shells into vinegar aren’t releasing calcium at levels we can benefit from. Something about what the egg shells are coated in basically makes it take literal decades to break down in soil. I can dig and find the source on this if someone prefers versus taking my word for it

Oyster shells and gypsum are both excellent sources that every soil grower should be utilizing

 

[Azimuth]

Avoid egg shells.. lots of tests have been done to show egg shells don’t release calcium or even break down at a rate we can use as cannabis growers. Even the JADAM mixtures putting egg shells into vinegar aren’t releasing calcium at levels we can benefit from. Something about what the egg shells are coated in basically makes it take literal decades to break down in soil. I can dig and find the source on this if someone prefers versus taking my word for it

Oyster shells and gypsum are both excellent sources that every soil grower should be utilizing

I'd like to read more on that. I've been making the KNF WCA (water soluble calcium made from the vinegar process using eggshells you mentioned). I've never had it tested for available calcium so if I'm not getting the benefit I'm expecting I would like to know that..

I think it's true that whole, or mostly whole, eggshells take forever to breakdown in the soil, but the ones I put in my soil mix are ground to a powder first which I understand helps immensely.

But, I'm always up for being more educated.

 

[Keffka]

I'd like to read more on that. I've been making the KNF WCA (water soluble calcium made from the vinegar process using eggshells you mentioned). I've never had it tested for available calcium so if I'm not getting the benefit I'm expecting I would like to know that..

I think it's true that whole, or mostly whole, eggshells take forever to breakdown in the soil, but the ones I put in my soil mix are ground to a powder first which I understand helps immensely.

But, I'm always up for being more educated.

Interestingly, they specifically mentioned that grounding them up still doesn’t help. I caught the info on the KIS podcast episode 123 and 124 with Bryant Mason. I’m currently trying to hunt down the actual measurements/studies he referenced.

He mentioned something as a good alternate which I thought was oyster shells in vinegar, but my mind also wants to say there was something called quick lime. That probably doesn’t suit your purposes well (oyster shells) but it also doesn’t help you if you’re doing extra work for nothing (egg shells)

He spoke at length about his interest in JADAM and KNF and taking measurements for data logging. You may find it interesting and be a bit more familiar, and as I said I’ll find what he was referencing

 

[Azimuth]

Interestingly, they specifically mentioned that grounding them up still doesn’t help. I caught the info on the KIS podcast episode 123 and 124 with Bryant Mason. I’m currently trying to hunt down the actual measurements/studies he referenced.

He mentioned something as a good alternate which I thought was oyster shells in vinegar, but my mind also wants to say there was something called quick lime. That probably doesn’t suit your purposes well (oyster shells) but it also doesn’t help you if you’re doing extra work for nothing (egg shells)

He spoke at length about his interest in JADAM and KNF and taking measurements for data logging. You may find it interesting and be a bit more familiar, and as I said I’ll find what he was referencing

Cool, thanks. I'll have a look.

 

[Sueet]

Depends on your pH needs, lime raises pH and gypsum is largely neutral.

 

[SmokingWings]

I think it's true that whole, or mostly whole, eggshells take forever to breakdown in the soil, but the ones I put in my soil mix are ground to a powder first which I understand helps immensely.

Grinding them up means more surface area for the micro-organisms to start chewing on but it still takes a long time for the Calcium to become available.

I have dried eggshells and when I have a bag full would bury them all together in one hole in the garden. Two years later they are still there looking like they did when they were covered up with soil. I have also taken a bag of dried egg shells and crushed them to little tiny bits and pieces before burying them in one spot. Most of them are still there two years later when I dug them up.

I have buried a lot of fish after filleting and the skin, scales and most of the bones are gone a year later. Usually the only parts still there are the jaw bone and teeth. And after two years in the ground it is hard to find those.

I've been making the KNF WCA (water soluble calcium made from the vinegar process using eggshells you mentioned). I've never had it tested for available calcium so if I'm not getting the benefit I'm expecting I would like to know that..

It does seem that this method does help speed up the process and makes the calcium available sooner from what I have picked up in casual reading.

As much as I enjoy and appreciate the various organic or natural ways of getting the calcium from eggshells or beef bones (chicken bones take about 2 or 3 years in the ground) I have been having more fun gardening when I use prepared products. Lot easier to see results sooner with the bags or bottles from the store. Might cost a bit more but the time savings is well worth it.

 

[SSgrower]

These plants grow in Stages, as you are conditioned to "See" the changing stage & will know what to do/not to do. Just relax & enjoy "watching" your garden, just like a farmer. SS

 

[Keffka]

Cool, thanks. I'll have a look.

So I’m still looking for actual measurements from the WCA itself. I may just send an email to Bryant Mason and see if he can point me toward where these JADAM Measurements are.

The one thing I’ve come across is on average, you can get about 4 mg of calcium per egg shell if you ground them to a powder. So that’s a bit more useful than just saying “it’s not efficient” but I’m still unsatisfied. I don’t doubt that oyster shell is more efficient, however, I can’t argue it’s more sustainable since oyster shell is essentially mined like other minerals.

 

[bluter]

if you want to speed up the process to get plant available calcium from egg shells you could fry them. there is also a process where they are both fried and dissolved in a little vinegar then diluted with water.

edit : i see azi mentioned the vinegar solution

 

[Azimuth]

if you want to speed up the process to get plant available calcium from egg shells you could fry them. there is also a process where they are both fried and dissolved in a little vinegar then diluted with water.

edit : i see azi mentioned the vinegar solution

Frying them and then adding them to the vinegar at a 1:10 ratio is the standard process. Not sure what the frying step does but it does make them more brittle. Maybe that helps in the breakdown?