Aspen's Alaskan Purple In Soil - 2022

[AspenCultivator]

I wouldn't try to adjust the schedule... Just keep on the accurate schedule until you can't and then continue giving that last week of nutrients called for in the chart until they finish, along with the extra Cha-Ching.

Thanks for the advice Emilya (and Azimuth!)...I appreciate you stopping in! I've seen your quotes on the FF solubles which is why I was excited to use them this grow. I'll adjust up to the next week and keep them there, then just repeat the last week until harvest.

And 7Dust thanks for the charts! I had the second one, but not the first. I'll add it to my resources stuff!

Emilya, or anyone who has used FF products in the past: do you still flush the last two weeks? I've read that synthetic nutes should be flushed by only providing PH water for the last two weeks, but I've also seen where others don't worry about it at all and continue doing F/W/F right up to chop. I'm also a little worried about not using calmag those last two weeks, as I seem to have almost zero in my water. The plants really didn't like it until I started using it.

 

[Emilya Green]

Thanks for the advice Emilya (and Azimuth!)...I appreciate you stopping in! I've seen your quotes on the FF solubles which is why I was excited to use them this grow. I'll adjust up to the next week and keep them there, then just repeat the last week until harvest.

And 7Dust thanks for the charts! I had the second one, but not the first. I'll add it to my resources stuff!

Emilya, or anyone who has used FF products in the past: do you still flush the last two weeks? I've read that synthetic nutes should be flushed by only providing PH water for the last two weeks, but I've also seen where others don't worry about it at all and continue doing F/W/F right up to chop. I'm also a little worried about not using calmag those last two weeks, as I seem to have almost zero in my water. The plants really didn't like it until I started using it.

Don't worry about the calmag in the last 2 weeks, if the plants needed it that bad they'd be letting you know. The flush at about week 6 is critical because that's how you get rid of all the accumulated salts from mid bloom where you have been feeding rather heavily. This last flush as you're going into the finish clears the pipes to allow maximum nutes and water to uptake into the plant for an awesome finish.

 

[AspenCultivator]

Hi everyone! We made it to Friday, I hope everyone had a great week.

I opened the tent this morning and immediately spotted this deficiency on both blueberries. The AP doesn't have this. At first glance without popping into any plant abuse charts, this looks like over-feeding. The leaves are a very dark green (too much nitrogen?) and the signs are on the biggest fans on both plants. Blueberry #2 has got it worse than blueberry #1.

Blueberry #2 Day 86 (Flower 18)

• AspenCultivator
• Mar 24, 2023

Blueberry #2 Day 86 (Flower 18)

• AspenCultivator
• Mar 24, 2023

Blueberry #2 Day 86 (Flower 18)

• AspenCultivator
• Mar 24, 2023

Blueberry #1 Day 86 (Flower 18)

• AspenCultivator
• Mar 24, 2023

Blueberry #2 Day 86 (Flower 18)

• AspenCultivator
• Mar 24, 2023

Here's the record since flip. I made a mistake and double-fed them 6 days ago, so it's possible (if this is due to over-feed) that's when it happened. This record is identical for both blueberries.

Anyone have any ideas? I didn't check the res before making this post so I don't know if they need water today or if it'll be tomorrow. Since they just got fed 2 days ago they need water anyway, but I'm wondering if I should do a Water/Water then go back to feed for week 7? Or does this look like something that's not over-feeding?

Thanks for any help

 

[Emilya Green]

The curling upwards is curious; where are the lights at? Could we be having too much light as indicated by some of the cupping? Your green isn't all that deep as I usually see in over feeding, and I don't see any indication that they're starving, so I think they could go the next time with just water without any problem.

 

[AspenCultivator]

The curling upwards is curious; where are the lights at? Could we be having too much light as indicated by some of the cupping? Your green isn't all that deep as I usually see in over feeding, and I don't see any indication that they're starving, so I think they could go the next time with just water without any problem.

Lights are a ViparSpectra KS2500, 12" above canopy @ 100%. I turned them up from 75% around 2 weeks ago, a week after flip to 12/12, and they grew up from 18" away to 12". I've been raising the lights every 2-3 days to maintain 12".

And for more info, humidity fluctuates between 50% at night and 40% during the day. Temps are 66F at night, 79F during day. I have a tower fan facing the corner of the tent, so the air blows around the sides. I also have a clip-on fan pointing at the blueberry's canopies, but it's a very gentle breeze with not a ton of motion on the leaves. Just enough movement so the leaves don't stick together and form condensation.

The affected leaves are in the middle of the plant, vertically. So the top and bottom fans aren't affected at this time.

 

[AspenCultivator]

Quick update: all 3 plants were needing water, so they got PH 6.4 with the FF Sledgehammer (flushing agent? idk). One thing I came across in the last hour of reading was to MAKE SURE TO FLUSH EVERY TIME THE SCHEDULE SAYS TO FLUSH.

I haven't been doing that. I have no earthly idea why I made that decision. Regardless, they got plain water and the sledgehammer stuff. I'll probably take some pics tomorrow morning if I have time to gauge if it's getting worse or not.

 

[Emilya Green]

Quick update: all 3 plants were needing water, so they got PH 6.4 with the FF Sledgehammer (flushing agent? idk). One thing I came across in the last hour of reading was to MAKE SURE TO FLUSH EVERY TIME THE SCHEDULE SAYS TO FLUSH.

I haven't been doing that. I have no earthly idea why I made that decision. Regardless, they got plain water and the sledgehammer stuff. I'll probably take some pics tomorrow morning if I have time to gauge if it's getting worse or not.

Sorry, that is not flushing. Flushing normally means to run 3x the container size of fresh water through the soil so that you wash out all the built up salts. Sledgehammer is a wetting agent that makes the salt dissolve easier so that it doesn't take 3x the volume... but it is still going to take an appreciable amount of water flowing out of the bottom. I personally would take my plants each to the bathroom where I would literally do this flush over the toilet so that I could flush down whatever came out of the pot... a little perlite and such...

But no, just putting sledgehammer in your water didn't do a thing. Sorry. I recommend trying again immediately.... this time with a lot more water.

 

[AspenCultivator]

Sorry, that is not flushing. Flushing normally means to run 3x the container size of fresh water through the soil so that you wash out all the built up salts. Sledgehammer is a wetting agent that makes the salt dissolve easier so that it doesn't take 3x the volume... but it is still going to take an appreciable amount of water flowing out of the bottom. I personally would take my plants each to the bathroom where I would literally do this flush over the toilet so that I could flush down whatever came out of the pot... a little perlite and such...

But no, just putting sledgehammer in your water didn't do a thing. Sorry. I recommend trying again immediately.... this time with a lot more water.

Thanks Emilya. I should have clarified when I said flushing, at least for the alaskan purple, indeed meant running a larger amount of water through the top. It was 2 gallons total (not 3x like you recommend), and I removed the run-off by transferring the plant to another tray after it was done, then transferring it again an hour or so later to remove the remaining water.

However for the sips, what's the best way to flush those? Fill 3x volume from the fill tube? Or fill 3x volume from the top?

 

[Emilya Green]

Thanks Emilya. I should have clarified when I said flushing, at least for the alaskan purple, indeed meant running a larger amount of water through the top. It was 2 gallons total (not 3x like you recommend), and I removed the run-off by transferring the plant to another tray after it was done, then transferring it again an hour or so later to remove the remaining water.

However for the sips, what's the best way to flush those? Fill 3x volume from the fill tube? Or fill 3x volume from the top?

That is a very interesting question. Just where does the salt accumulate in a sip, in the soil or in the rez or both? I am tempted to say to pour in from to the top to flush the soil as always, but this might need some group discussion... anyone else?

 

[Azimuth]

That is a very interesting question. Just where does the salt accumulate in a sip, in the soil or in the rez or both? I am tempted to say to pour in from to the top to flush the soil as always, but this might need some group discussion... anyone else?

I would agree with flushing from the top. I have really old houseplants, some of which are bottom watered, which show salt build up on the top of the soil and even on the pot sides themselves.

This would suggest that the salts can indeed float to the surface with the moisture and therefore a thorough flushing would need to start from the top.

 

[Emilya Green]

After flushing down into the rez, I think I would be tempted to suck or tilt all of that out of there and start fresh. A need to flush is going to be a PITA even in a sip.

 

[Azimuth]

After flushing down into the rez, I think I would be tempted to suck or tilt all of that out of there and start fresh. A need to flush is going to be a PITA even in a sip.

Right, I forgot to mention the emptying the reservoir part. If you don't, it will just wick back up into the soil.

 

[AspenCultivator]

I would agree with flushing from the top. I have really old houseplants, some of which are bottom watered, which show salt build up on the top of the soil and even on the pot sides themselves.

This would suggest that the salts can indeed float to the surface with the moisture and therefore a thorough flushing would need to start from the top.

After flushing down into the rez, I think I would be tempted to suck or tilt all of that out of there and start fresh. A need to flush is going to be a PITA even in a sip.

Thank you Emilya and Azimuth for commenting. Unfortunately I wasn't able to flush a few days ago, so I'm doing it this morning. And yes, it's a huge pain in the ass. So much so that for the next cycle something is going to have to change. I've poured 3 gallons so far into Blueberry #2 from the top, and because of how small my overflow hole is, I'm going to have to wait quite a while before I can continue adding water.

Blueberry #2 Day 89 (Flower 21)

• AspenCultivator
• Mar 27, 2023

The res was 1/3rd of the way full before I started which tells me they're not drinking nearly as much as they have been in the last 1.5 weeks. The deficiency hasn't gotten overly worse, but now that it's more developed it does look like a lock out. As you can see in the pic above, the media is so saturated I have to wait for water to drain out before continuing to force water in. This is going to take a monumental amount of time, considering I have 2 plants I have to do this to.

Blueberry #2 Day 89 (Flower 21)

• AspenCultivator
• Mar 27, 2023

The overflow hole. Unless I stick a drill in there and make it bigger, risking losing material, I don't see any other way to accomplish this in any sane amount of time. The plant is in the bathtub, not under lights, and will have to stay there until I've given it water. Emilya mentioned 3x the container volume, that'd be 15 gallons. While that might be the right answer, I don't have the time to wait for the water to exit the overflow hole until I can add more.

Blueberry #2 Day 89 (Flower 21)

• AspenCultivator
• Mar 27, 2023

Blueberry #2 Day 89 (Flower 21)

• AspenCultivator
• Mar 27, 2023

So this presents a serious problem for using SIPs moving forward with the FF nute line. The easiest solution is to make the hole bigger and deal with the consequences. For the next cycle, since I'll still have to use the remainder of this nute line (it's expensive, and is working, so won't be thrown away) I believe I'll put in a drain hole with a valve or something to make flushing easier and faster.

As for getting liquid out, that won't be a big deal. I've already done this with a 1/4" air tubing siphon that worked really well. I'm not worried about getting it out. The problem right now is getting it in. I'm going to shoot for 10 gallons run through the container (15 is out of the question right now) but even then putting in 10 gallons is going to take a ton of time getting 10 gallons out.

Dunno what I'm going to do here. I'll keep putting in a gallon at a time until I have to move on to the next thing. At that point, it is what it is.

Edit to add: I stopped caring about the size of the overflow hole and just drilled it with a 3/8" bit. It pulled some material out, but because I added a perlite channel between the res and the overflow hole, I'm not losing any more material through the hole. It's spurting out with some force too, so I estimate in not-so-scientific-terms I've cut the time needed to drain down by a factor of 2 or 3. That sounds legit.

 

[Emilya Green]

This is exactly the problem that got me interested in organic growing, so I never needed to flush again.

 

[AspenCultivator]

I'm super impressed with how the SIPs are performing, and definitely want to keep using them. It sounds like an organic soil is going to be the best bet for this grow system, so that'll give me something to research and start planning for in the future.

As for right now, I can realistically run 10 gallons through both blueberries, while also draining the res afterwards. Hopefully the 10 gallons is enough. In the first gallon I used the sledgehammer, but the rest has been PH 6.4 water.

 

[Melville Hobbes]

I'm super impressed with how the SIPs are performing, and definitely want to keep using them. It sounds like an organic soil is going to be the best best for this grow system, so that'll give me something to research and start planning for in the future.

As for right now, I can realistically run 10 gallons through both blueberries, while also draining the res afterwards. Hopefully the 10 gallons is enough. In the first gallon I used the sledgehammer, but the rest has been PH 6.4 water.

Is there any reason you can't have more overflow holes?

 

[Azimuth]

So this presents a serious problem for using SIPs moving forward with the FF nute line.

If I were going to grow in a 5 gallon bucket with something requiring flushing, I'd probably go with the false floor design shown in the video on page two of the SIP Club thread.

That's a bucket-in-a-bucket system so you could easily slide the inner one out and set it on something when you do your flush. And the inner bucket has lots of drainage/air holes which should help as well.

 

[AspenCultivator]

Is there any reason you can't have more overflow holes?

I considered that as well, and I can't see any reason why you wouldn't be able to do that. The bigger issue is getting the res empty afterwards. The siphon can only pull so much, but it did work the last time I did it, and it worked really well.

With the multiple holes, I'd have to make sure to add a perlite channel between the res and the wall of the bucket to allow for easier water movement. Which is why I don't want to add them until I can reset everything. My DIY sip is working really well as far as I can tell so there's no reason not to re-use it...but with the inserts available as cheap (relatively speaking) as they are, I may just replace them. Or use the diy for veggies outside and have the commercial ones in the tent.

I'm definitely going to be pondering how to get all the water out for the next cycle. 1/4" bulkheads would be water tight, but would leave a bit of water/crud at the bottom. Since I'm not shooting for giant plants in this space, there could be a 2-piece design that allows the upper bucket to be lifted up and out of the lower bucket. Then just pour whatever is in there out, and replace, and you're done. I know @Azimuth had build plans over in the SIP club for a 2 piece, and @lootznbootz used a version of that for a while.

Or, go LOS. Choices choices.

 

[AspenCultivator]

If I were going to grow in a 5 gallon bucket with something requiring flushing, I'd probably go with the false floor design shown in the video on page two of the SIP Club thread.

That's a bucket-in-a-bucket system so you could easily slide the inner one out and set it on something when you do your flush. And the inner bucket has lots of drainage/air holes which should help as well.

Lol, I posted my reply and then saw you replied just before me. This might be the way to go since I'm using this nute line. It would be the most economical choice for the next cycle, since LOS is a bit out of reach at the moment, and I still have a ton of the FF stuff.

 

[Azimuth]

Lol, I posted my reply and then saw you replied just before me. This might be the way to go since I'm using this nute line. It would be the most economical choice for the next cycle, since LOS is a bit out of reach at the moment, and I still have a ton of the FF stuff.

Yeah, the two bucket design would only cost you a few bucks for a second bucket with lid, and maybe a hole saw.