Cabinet development: hydroponic scrog grow under CFLs

[Sam Spade]

Hi all,

I'm a new member to the 420magazine forums, and a soon to be first-time grower. It is legal for me to grow in my state, but I'd still like to keep it stealth for when family or the cable guy comes by. After searching for months for the "perfect" piece of furniture on craigslist, I decided that in order to make the best use of my dedicated closet space I would have to custom build my own grow cabinet.

Using wood scraps from Ikea and some wood molding and tools I purchased from Home Depot, I've finished the cabinet frame. I didn't have any plans; I mainly "winged it" based on the space and materials I had. The frame as it is constructed will give me 26" of width and 22" of depth, yielding about 4 square feet of horizontal space which I plan to use for a scrog, with one or two plants. Inside the cab I have about 57" of vertical space from the top of the floor to the bottom of the top support beam. I plan on using between ten and fourteen 42-watt CFLs, yielding about 7,000-10,000 lumens per square foot. (For a small stealth grow, I'm not sure HPS is appropriate, and besides, I don't want to deal with problems related to high temperatures.) I also plan on doing a "Tulip"-style deep water culture setup [Deep Water Culture Tutorial, SH Kit & DIY]].

Now, some pictures, if I can get them to work.

Wood materials:

Floor and part of frame:

Frame takes shape:

Frame connected to the floor:

Cab fits nicely in the closet:

A view of the top support beam:

I think I'll use hardboard and/or a combination of poster board and hardboard to complete three of the walls. I'll have to cut holes in these walls for my exhaust vent, fitted with a carbon filter (somewhere near the top and back), and my passive intake vents (which will be somewhere near the front and bottom of the cab). The finished product doesn't have to be very pretty on the outside, because I don't expect unfriendlies to open this closet.

I'm not sure how I'll design the door yet. I might use piano hinges, or I might just strap it to the front with big pieces of velcro. Ideally, I would like the cabinet to be light tight, mostly to help that will help contain odors during flowering.


At this stage, I'm really looking for advice on the following points:

-What is the best way to grow hydroponically, while doing a screen of green? I'd like to imitate Tulip's deep water culture setup, but I'm worried about how I might change the water without disturbing the branches that are intertwined into the scrog screen. Perhaps I can have a second pump sit in the reservoir that is hooked up to a dedicated exit flow hose, that I will only turn on when it's time to empty the old water. Or maybe I can just rig up a $10 hand pump siphon. Ebb and flow might allow for an easier water change than deep water culture, because I would only have to disturb the lower reservoir (instead of messing with a tank list sitting just below the scrog screen), but is 57" enough space for that, after adding in the lights, screen, etc? And wouldn't the upper and lower reservoir still have to be connected by the drainage system, thus making the clean and easy removal of the lower reservoir also difficult? Heck, maybe I should just grow in soil for my first grow, since I'm very committed to the scrog part of the plan.

-I'm going with CFL bulbs because of their stealth, ease of use, ability to be laid out horizontally over a scrog screen. Besides, this grow isn't commercial, with a target of twelve ounces of dried product each year, or maybe six ounces per grow cycle. I don't want to have to worry about solving temperature problems or creating fire hazards -- I have enough worries as it is. For their high lumen/watt ratio and size, I've settled on the 42-watt CFL bulbs. But how many 42-watt CFL bulbs should I use? Each creates about 2,800 lumens. I'm thinking of going with 14 bulbs for a total of almost 10,000 lumens/sqft, although if I'm doing my math correctly, running fourteen bulbs 18 hours a day would add about $35 to my monthly power bill (yikes). Ten bulbs would generate a respectable 7,000 lumens, and $26.24 in monthly power costs. But will heat be an issue when running so many (10 to 14) CFL bulbs?

-Is it beneficial to have some warm (2700k) bulbs during vegging, or should I go all 6500k? If I can mix and match during both the veg and flower cycles I don't have to invest in so many bulbs up front. E.g., I could run, say, a 12-bulb system with 9 bulbs @6500k and 3 bulbs @2700k during the veg period, switching to 3 bulbs @6500k and 9 bulbs @2700k during the flower period. That would allow me a 12 bulb (total of 34k lumens) system while only have to buy 18 bulbs (9@6500k and 9@2700k) up front.


I'll be purchasing bulbs within the next week. The bulb/heat profile will dictate the cooling system and thus the wall and fan design, which will go in place after the lighting system. Then I'll buy whatever parts I need for the growing medium I choose (hydro or even soil).

Out of all the growing forums, 420magazine seems to be THE place for intelligent, helpful, and friendly advice. Any wisdom you can provide is deeply appreciated!

Sam

 

[TorturedSoul]

Hello classic B&W detective (lol) and welcome to 420Magazine.

I plan on using between ten and fourteen 42-watt CFLs, yielding about 7,000-10,000 lumens per square foot. (For a small stealth grow, I'm not sure HPS is appropriate, and besides, I don't want to deal with problems related to high temperatures.)

I'm going with CFL bulbs because of their stealth, ease of use, ability to be laid out horizontally over a scrog screen. Besides, this grow isn't commercial, with a target of twelve ounces of dried product each year, or maybe six ounces per grow cycle. I don't want to have to worry about solving temperature problems or creating fire hazards -- I have enough worries as it is. For their high lumen/watt ratio and size, I've settled on the 42-watt CFL bulbs. But how many 42-watt CFL bulbs should I use? Each creates about 2,800 lumens. I'm thinking of going with 14 bulbs for a total of almost 10,000 lumens/sqft, although if I'm doing my math correctly, running fourteen bulbs 18 hours a day would add about $35 to my monthly power bill (yikes). Ten bulbs would generate a respectable 7,000 lumens, and $26.24 in monthly power costs. But will heat be an issue when running so many (10 to 14) CFL bulbs?

Couple of comments:

I don't know why HPS lighting wouldn't be appropriate for a smaller grow; they make (several) sizes below the 600-watt one, you know. Not saying it's the best choice (or that it isn't) - just don't know why it would get dismissed out of hand for the reasons you mentioned.

Stealth: What's stealthy about 10-14 (CFL) light bulbs in a closet, lol? If someone gets far enough into your home to see your GR, it's pretty much a draw; besides, the cannabis plants would give it away anyway.

Ease of use: Hang one light and plug it in, or hang 10-14 and plug them in (or build a contraption with multiple sockets, Y-adaptors, cords, and one large or several small reflectors)?

Ability to be laid out horizontally over a scrog screen: I'm not sure that multiple "point" light-sources are the best choice for a scrog. In theory, a HPS isn't either - but with the greater gross illumination and penetration, you've effectively got enough "wiggle room" that it'll work just fine. And if you wanted to be (for lack of a better word) proper with one, you could easily anchor the screen in the center so as to make a bowl- or stadium-shaped screen (or attach one of the "heat-spreader/diffuser" devices directly below the bulb).

Cost (per month): As you have surmised, running 10-14 42-watt bulbs adds up on the electric bill. Not counting any ballast (et cetera) losses - yes, CFLs have ballasts too - you're looking at 420-588 watts. In the same neighborhood as a 400-watt HPS (with an electronic ballasted one being at the lower end, a good old-school C&C ballast in the middle, and (perhaps) a cheaper-made C&C one towards the top of that range). The 400-watt HPS would (potentially) produce significantly more, which you have stated you do not require - but consider the fact that you could hit your target yield (or even surpass it with a little effort) with a 250-watt HPS.

Cost (to purchase): I guess that a CFL setup might take the win here. The cheapest new (C&C) 400-watt HPS (or MH, but not switchable) setup I see ATM that includes ballast, reflector, and bulb is $119. And it might be cheaper to purchase your projected CFL setup. Hmm, let's see... 10-14 42-watt CFLs, some combination of 10-14 sockets & Y-adaptors, one or more plugs and some wire, something to make one or more reflectors out of... Huh. Ok, maybe not, lol. That $119 HPS setup with a MH conversion bulb added is about $164. Perhaps that would be more expensive than a CFL setup but I am not so sure after you added the cost of enough additional 42-watt CFLs to be able to change your spectral profile at will. Granted, that is probably the cheapest setup you'll find without searching and that going with a better reflector, an electronic ballast, and better bulb(s) would of course increase the price - but it would also be likely to significantly increase the yield and provide other benefits.

Heat: Basically, a light setup eats electricity and excretes (lol) two things - illumination and heat. There is a limit to the total amount produced that is defined by the input. The more efficient the thing is, the more light that is produced relative to the heat. When looking at an equal amount (by wattage) of CFL and HPS lights, the CFLs will actually produce more heat than the HPS. Yes, a 400- or even 250-watt HPS produces more heat than a 42-watt CFL - but you won't be using one CFL, lol. Also take into account the fact that you could get by with less wattage with a HPS, so the heat discrepancy would be even greater. Then there's the fact that the CFLs you're looking at most likely are the screw-in type with the ballasts - and the heat they produce - as part of the bulb, while the typical HID setup uses a remote ballast with an 8'-15' cord so that you do not have to place the ballast inside the actual GR. One last thing about heat, if you go with an HID setup and wish to spend the extra money on an air-cooled reflector, removing the bulk of the GR's heat is much easier since you can set things up so that that heated air has no cannabis smell to worry about removing. To do the same thing with a multiple-CFL setup, you'd have to construct a custom "sealed" reflector setup (or a lot of little ones if you spread the bulbs out).

You can get a 400-watt Lumatek ballast for around $120 (+ shipping) these days. Silent, relatively cool, will drive both MH and HPS bulbs... And it will drive a 400-watt bulb, a 400-watt bulb at 250 watts, or a 250-watt bulb (at 250 watts). The dimmer switch even has "super lumen" positions for both 250 and 400 watts which increase the wattage about 10%. That would allow you to have a 250-watt setup in your small GR now and increase to 400 watts in the future if you go with a larger GR to increase your yield (or to achieve it in just one grow?).

A 250-watt Lumatek is slightly cheaper and has settings for 250w, 175w, and 150w.

Both would require a bulb and reflector (generally comes with a socket and reflector-to-ballast cord these days). One would allow for future expansion.

You could go with one of them. You could go with one of them with a few CFLs as supplementary/complementary illumination. Since you mentioned scrog, you could go with a bank of T5 (or even the older types of) florescent. The choice is, of course, up to you and I wish you the best with whatever you decide. I just didn't want you to automatically discount a HID setup for reasons that might not be as valid as you originally thought.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Couple of other things:

Changing the water in a DWC reservoir does not have to be difficult. Hardware stores, hydroponics stores, and Lowes & Home Depot should all sell bulkhead kits that allow you to attach a valve to the reservoir. If the reservoir is not sitting directly on the floor you can easily drain it through such a fitting or even a simple piece of hose. And yes, those squeeze-bulb pump siphon gizmos that they sell in autumn for transferring kerosine from the can into the heater for two or three dollars (might be more these days?) will work.

DWC is an excellent way to "teethe" on the hobby.

It can be helpful to mix the spectrum of your lights if you are using a multi-bulb setup (and to use one of the various "enhanced" bulbs if using a single-bulb one). 75%/25%, three ~6500K bulbs and one ~2700K bulb for vegetative growth and the reverse for flowering. That's a general rule which like everything else can vary due to other factors. For example, if you're growing a pure(sic) sativa in a small box, you'd want a greater percentage of ~6500K (perhaps 100%, lol).

Oh yeah, I almost forgot: +REPs for the DiY approach!

 

[DutchDude]

Here you go - this 250W retrofit kit for $50 is a no brainer I don't know how long this sale lasts though.

Get two bulbs for about $20 each - 2700k for flowering, and 6500k for veg.

 

[Sam Spade]

Thanks TorturedSoul, you make some good points. I think my original plans for a modest 2 square foot CFL grow got out of hand after I built myself a 4 square foot cabinet -- at some point, CFLs really start loosing the lumen/watt battle to HID. So perhaps I should scale back my plans again, keep my scrog screen at 2 or maybe 3 square feet, and do maybe 5-8 CFL bulbs. Baby steps.

I want to start small, but if my first CFL grow goes well, and is not discovered by anyone and doesn't smell up the place, it might justify further investments in money and education to do a proper HID grow. I would take any leftover CFL bulbs and make a separate nursery cab for a momma plant and clones. But at this point, I don't even know what a "JBJ K-1 250W Metal Halide Retrofit Kit" is or what I would do with one (DutchDude, help please?). I don't know what "C&C" stands for, or even what other parts I would have to buy after buying a ballast in order to actually produce light (a bulb and reflector, I assume, and some sort of socket? I don't even know what it would look like), whereas CFL bulbs, sockets, and lamp cords actually seem pretty intuitive to this first timer. Ultimately, regardless of the merits of HID, I'm not sure if I am prepared for it.

One other thing I'm confused about -- you mocked the concept of stealth, or at least my version of it. Granted my plan included too many bulbs, but the bulbs would not be in a closet per se, they would be in a lightproof cabinet I am building for this, which would in turn be in the closed closet, in a closed room. So how would someone detect my plants? I would like to be let in on the joke, because your smiley is having too much fun there... and because getting busted by, say, the in-laws would not be a laughing matter for me.

Based on what you say I think I will settle on deep water culture. I'm worried that a valve system I make might leak (which is not stealthy), but you've given me confidence in the pump plan.

I am much obliged to you for the advice and rep points. You've really helped me think all this through, and I'm honored that such an illustrious member would take the time to help a newb.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Nothing wrong with CFLs.

One good thing about them is that you can add a few more every week. Of course, that can get out of hand and one day you might find yourself tripping a breaker because you ended up with 1280 watts' worth along with a rather large window a/c wheezing away unsuccessfully attempting to keep things cool while you are cranking out as much bud... as a single air-cooled 600-watt HPS (sorry, I couldn't resist).

People have grown small amounts of great bud with reasonable-sized CFL setups. People have grown more with a few more. And some grow a fair amount of bud wih quite a lot of CFLs. And... People have grown from a fair amount to quite a huge amount with mild to OMG (lol) HID setups. Conversely, people have done poorly with all kinds of lights too. Lighting is not all there is to a grow.

BtW, member ChicagoJoe used a small 150-watt HPS in (I think) a three square foot GR and harvested... (had to look it up) 94 grams (dry) of bud, some good trim for hash-making, and ½ gram or so of finger-hash. (You can often find an all-in-one 150-watt HPS setup for around $58-$65, occasionally one with a remote ballast for around the same price, and can easily remote the ballast from an AiO unit yourself.) If you want to check out his thread (has pics, lol) it is here:
150W HPS - 18 pics - 9 weeks flower

Nothing wrong with starting small, slow, and easy. Beats diving in and becoming overwhelmed.

I wasn't mocking your concept of stealth, exactly. Just attempting to state that a CFL grow is not inherently more stealthy than a HID one. By the time someone sees what kind of lighting you are running in your grow, stealth has already gone t!ts up, lol.

The most common ways of getting caught are telling someone and... telling someone. Then there's doing something really stupid and unforgivable which causes the spouse to tell someone. Next up is failing to take into account that cannabis plants tend to REEK, lol. A small grow might only stink up the house... and the yard. A larger one... Once in a while you might read here where someone jokes about turning down their street and smelling their grow - only to realize that they were not joking. While there are some low-odor strains, a carbon filter is a good idea. (They can be homemade.) I had a small grow in a commercial building years ago and as the smell grew, I got used to it... So I sort of forgot about it until one day I was walking across the parking lot and was halted by the local K9 officer <WHOOPS!> who proceeded to read me the riot act about how I was a great guy and all but he was getting complaints every time he swung through and how he really didn't want to have to deal with it, but if I didn't, lol... (I miss that location and time!) WAAAAAAY down on the list is detection of your heat signature. It's pretty unlikely with a small grow. Somewhere in between are all the things which I assume you wouldn't do like arguing with your spouse in a drunken rage at 3am and getting the cops called on you, being seen repeatedly carrying bags of soil into your house even though you never seem to have any visible houseplants, leaving empty jugs of Ed's Mary-J-Wanna Grow Syrup on the front porch, and lots of other bonehead things of that nature. Let common sense be your guide.

How to keep from getting caught by the in-laws: Keep them out of your house and in another state where they belong, lol. Failing that, see the comments about smell above and make it clear that although they are perfectly welcome in your home it is YOUR home and therefore they are to KNOCK instead of opening the door and walking in. (Friend of mine had such a nosy MiL who insisted on walking right in whenever she pleased regardless of how many times he talked to her about it - from polite to rather irate - that finally at his wits end one day, he waited on her to pull up, sat down on the couch (right in front of the door) and began to pleasure himself. His MiL walked in, squeaked, and ran out, lmao. From that point onwards, she knocked. 'Tis also important to make it clear that they are not to play Snooping Sally throughout your house. Most everyone has a private area that they wish to keep private, and that is the place for your grow. Locks are a good idea. But I ramble on (and on and on and...).

GR in a closet in a room is great - but keep in mind that you will need some kind of ventilation and/or cooling plan. And again, some kind of carbon filter is a good idea. "Cover ups" are just that; they have to be stronger than the smell they are covering up and they have been known to fail or run out at inconvenient moments. Carbon filters are much more dependable. (Great thing about air-cooled HID reflectors is that you can run air from outside the GR, through the reflector, and back outside - it'll come out heated but just smelling like air; meaning you can vent the actual GR to a much lesser extent and any odor control strategy you use should be more efficient and last longer because you're pushing far less air through it and it won't be heated air.)

Hmm... What else... Oh yeah...

C&C stands for core & coil, another name for an "old-school" magnetic (as opposed to electronic/"digital") HID ballast. It'll be heavier than the electronic ones, generally put out more heat, often - but not always, there are "switchable" versions too - be for MH or HPS only, and tend to make a humming noise that ranges in loudness from just there to highly annoying depending on its age, quality, the level of background noise, and how easily you become annoyed (lol).

With HIDs - be it a MH, HPS, or switchable (electronic ballast models are almost always capable of using either type of bulb) - there are AiO (all in one, ballast is inside the reflector) and separate component types. AiO models are just that, hang it up, screw in the bulb, and plug it in. Downsides are that they are heavier because the weight of the (usually C&C) ballast is in the reflector, and due to their design the ballast is in the GR adding to the heat. You can generally "remote" the ballast safely. Separate component models require a reflector (air-cooled is a plus but there are "uncooled" or open types as well) which almost always comes with a mougal (larger) socket and cord, a ballast, and a bulb that matches the ballast (if it is not switchable or electronic) and is of the correct wattage. Lumateks and some other electronic ballasts are dimmable (for example, a 400-watt Lumatek can drive a 400-watt bulb at its native wattage and also at 250-watts (and in the Lumatek's case, there is a "super lumen" setting which is about a 10% overdrive) and/or multi-watt (for example, a 400-watt Lumatek can also drive a 250-watt bulb when set to the 250-watt - or 250SL - setting). Comes in handy if you are buying more than you need right now, if you want to run higher wattage in the winter and lower wattage in the hot summer months, to run a 250-watt MH bulb for vegetative and then switch to a 400-watt HPS during flowering without having to use a different ballast... Or just to start plants off at a lower wattage in the same way that you'd "harden them off" in the summer time outdoors by placing them in partial shade for a few days.

Often you can find "kits" that include a ballast, bulb, and reflector for one price. It may or may not save you a few bucks. One assumes that if you purchase a kit everything will work together - but one also assumes that a simple email before ordering components will ensure the same thing.

The last time I purchased a light setup, I went with a 400-watt Lumatek ballast, a 400-watt Lumatek "high-PAR" (photosynthetically active radiation, or in theory - I haven't used it before so IDK yet, lol - much more of the illumination in the wavelengths that plants can actually use), and a cheap open reflector. Think it was around $250 shipped. Works great. Even drives a rather old 400-watt MH bulb I had laying around at 400 or 250 watts. The ballast is compact, relatively cool (I can hold my hand on top of it all day long), and absolutely silent. I'm quite happy with everything but the reflector and I knew what I was getting where it was concerned, lol. Think it was around $35 and a bare socket/cord would be about half that so for another $15-$17 it saved me the hassle of making my own (I tend to bleed when working with sheet-metal ). In the future I can upgrade to an air-cooled reflector and either give the cheap one away to someone that needs it or use it with for a vegetative reflector.

I started to get a 250-watt setup of the above but realized that the price of the ballast had come down enough that my budget would cover the 400-watt one. In fact, I was able to get a moderately-priced bulb ($55?) instead of a cheap ($20-$25) one. Someone else might have gone with the cheapest bulb and thrown a few bucks more in to get a sealed reflector. I was fresh out of "a few bucks more" and was happy with what I got for my money. And I was tired of saving up at that point .

LOTS of choices. Something like I got, a cheap ballast/reflector/bulb for around what I paid for my ballast, top of the line everything for more money, an expensive but bright T5 fluorescent tube setup, a bunch of CFLs, a homebuilt tube setup using old-style fluorescents (been there, done that in a two-level scrog), LEDs, a bleeding-edge sulfur plasma lamp ($$$), the SUN... choices.

 

[DutchDude]

I want to start small, but if my first CFL grow goes well, and is not discovered by anyone and doesn't smell up the place, it might justify further investments in money and education to do a proper HID grow. I would take any leftover CFL bulbs and make a separate nursery cab for a momma plant and clones. But at this point, I don't even know what a "JBJ K-1 250W Metal Halide Retrofit Kit" is or what I would do with one (DutchDude, help please?). I don't know what "C&C" stands for, or even what other parts I would have to buy after buying a ballast in order to actually produce light (a bulb and reflector, I assume, and some sort of socket? I don't even know what it would look like), whereas CFL bulbs, sockets, and lamp cords actually seem pretty intuitive to this first timer. Ultimately, regardless of the merits of HID, I'm not sure if I am prepared for it.

Hey Sam - that kit for $50 includes the ballast, all the cords, reflector (not the best, but alas) and the socket. Like I said, buy one alround metal halide bulb @ 4200k (color temperature of the light), or the two specialized ones (6500k + 2700k) and you are off and running. The heat of a 250W MH is manageable in your space, just circulate and ventilate the air.

 

[Sam Spade]

TorturedSoul and Dutch Dude ---

Thanks again for the tips. As way of analogy, I was ok for years with a mediocre point and shoot camera. But as my photography skills developed, I eventually had to get a big ol' SLR to reach my potential. Similarly, I think I'll have to figure out how to do a smaller grow stealthily before I am ready for a more serious HID grow.

Nothing wrong with CFLs.

One good thing about them is that you can add a few more every week. Of course, that can get out of hand and one day you might find yourself tripping a breaker because you ended up with 1280 watts' worth along with a rather large window a/c wheezing away unsuccessfully attempting to keep things cool while you are cranking out as much bud... as a single air-cooled 600-watt HPS (sorry, I couldn't resist).

LOL. This line of argument really put my plans into perspective. I think CFLs are good for small stealthy grows, especially for first timers, but 14 CFL bulbs would have cost well over $100 to start, and would use more power than an HID system would. This first grow will be a test run / proof of concept for me.

I wasn't mocking your concept of stealth, exactly. Just attempting to state that a CFL grow is not inherently more stealthy than a HID one. By the time someone sees what kind of lighting you are running in your grow, stealth has already gone t!ts up, lol.

Oh, I see what you mean now. Yes, if they are in the room, open the closet, and open the cab, I'm screwed. But for stealth purposes I'd like no humming noises escaping form the closet, and I'm pretty sure the cooling system necessitated by an HID setup (or even an oversized CFL setup) would make some noise. I want this grow to be quiet.

The most common ways of getting caught are telling someone and... telling someone.

True that. I'm not even telling my friends about this. That's another reason I'm glad I'm joined these forums: not only am I getting good advice but I'm able to talk freely to other human beings about a project that is taking up a lot of my attention.

finally at his wits end one day, he waited on her to pull up, sat down on the couch (right in front of the door) and began to pleasure himself. His MiL walked in, squeaked, and ran out, lmao. From that point onwards, she knocked.

LOL x 1000. Seems like a pretty foolproof method though.

With HIDs - be it a MH, HPS, or switchable (electronic ballast models are almost always capable of using either type of bulb) - there are AiO (all in one, ballast is inside the reflector) and separate component types. AiO models are just that, hang it up, screw in the bulb, and plug it in.

that kit for $50 includes the ballast, all the cords, reflector (not the best, but alas) and the socket. Like I said, buy one alround metal halide bulb @ 4200k (color temperature of the light), or the two specialized ones (6500k + 2700k) and you are off and running.

So it sounds like if this initial test grow goes well, and I'm able to get to harvest without the ol' lady making a fuss about smell or the power bill or something, what I should do (as the buds are curing) is get a 400 watt ballast, and a reflector, that can take 250-watt or 400-watt MH or HPS bulbs. An AiO unit would be great, if I can just remote the ballast outside the cab like you say I can. I even saw some in the hydroponics shop today. My CFL bulbs be demoted to a nursery I plan on making out of a 2-drawer file cabinet.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Hey Sam - that kit for $50 includes the ballast, all the cords, reflector (not the best, but alas) and the socket. Like I said, buy one alround metal halide bulb @ 4200k (color temperature of the light), or the two specialized ones (6500k + 2700k) and you are off and running. The heat of a 250W MH is manageable in your space, just circulate and ventilate the air.

Not a bad price at all if the ballast uses components of good quality.

This first grow will be a test run / proof of concept for me.

Can do a first grow - or even a 157th one - on a shoestring budget if necessary. Especially if a high yield is not a requirement.

for stealth purposes I'd like no humming noises escaping form the closet, and I'm pretty sure the cooling system necessitated by an HID setup (or even an oversized CFL setup) would make some noise. I want this grow to be quiet.

A good sealed electronic ballast will be silent; there is no hum and it is designed so that the case is a finned heatsink for passive cooling instead of having a built-in fan.

Water-cooled light setups can be considered silent, although they may be more complicated than a new grower would care to deal with. Guess it depends on factors such as whether you've dealt with water-cooling in other hobbies. Not something I'd suggest for starting out.

Fans make noise, there's no disputing that - even a quality well-designed fan still moves air, and moving air in confined spaces is rarely silent. But this can be minimized through a common-sense approach to design of your setup. For example, making the air-path as smooth as possible. Limit the use of flexible ductwork to that which is used immediately around the reflector and that only as needed to allow for raising/lowering the light (and/or travel back and forth on a light mover). Keep bends to a minimum. Utilized insulated and/or double-wall vent pipe. Set things that may have vibration on a solid concrete (basement or slab) floor or use a sound-insulating mat if this is not possible. Do not place the GR directly against a thin interior wall that is shared with a common space - such as your living room - if possible, and if it is not then place an aquarium against that wall on the common side. I've seen computers that were louder than some GR setups, lol, but most of them are at least occasionally shut down while an aquarium runs constantly. And an aquarium can be an enjoyable & relaxing thing to have.

Insulation of the GR can be very helpful but keep in mind that not all insulation excels at blocking noise. And, again, design plays a part. "Dead air" space between two layers would help (a vacuum would be better, lol, but...). Many times people forget about noise transmitted through contact such as the framing. Isolating that as much as possible, with a rubber lining if nothing else, can do a lot to stop vibration.

So it sounds like if this initial test grow goes well, and I'm able to get to harvest without the ol' lady making a fuss about smell or the power bill or something, what I should do (as the buds are curing) is get a 400 watt ballast, and a reflector, that can take 250-watt or 400-watt MH or HPS bulbs. An AiO unit would be great, if I can just remote the ballast outside the cab like you say I can. I even saw some in the hydroponics shop today. My CFL bulbs be demoted to a nursery I plan on making out of a 2-drawer file cabinet.

I'm not a big fan of an AiO unit, but that's just me. I like having the freedom of being able to choose the ballast and reflector that I want. I do not know of an AiO which includes an electronic dimmable ballast, BtW. Still, it's an easy thing to order, lol. I came close to ordering a pair of (cheap) 150-watt HPS AiOs a couple of times. They aren't always all that efficient, however (cheaper ballast components, low PF (power factor)). But if one wishes to spend $55-$65 on a small (16,000 lumen) HPS that he can remove from the package, hang up, plug into a timer, and turn on they'll work for that. And in a small GR of around three square feet where plants are kept short (possibly via a scrog), they should provide adequate illumination. So would a (relatively) small number of CFLs. Combining the two would allow for a larger GR and give you the chance to tailor the light spectrum.

I forgot to mention in previous posts (or maybe I didn't but have forgotten, lol - rough day): A reflector is not required for a bare-bulb vertical setup where the bulb "hangs" in the middle at canopy-height and is surrounded by plants. Propa Gator has posted a nice example of a relatively low-budget grow of this nature if you'd like to check it out. Think it might have used a 250-watt bulb. Pretty sure he also used a type of bulb that I haven't mentioned called a CMH (ceramic metal halide) which runs on a HPS ballast. Seems like most of them don't work with most electronic ballasts, so I have not really done a lot of research about them. I have read that there might be one or two that will work with e-ballasts, or perhaps with a certain brand, I cannot remember.

 

[Sam Spade]

Yesterday I purchased a Sterilite 5-gallon storage tote ($4 at wally world), some ph calibration fluids ($8 each at the local hydroponics shop) and a few 4-inch net pots ($0.60 each at the hydro shop). I think I'll do two plants in the 5-gallon tote. I plan on using a water pump to feed, spray, or drip nutrient rich water to the net pots... but I might get lazy, fill up the tote with enough water so that the bottom of the hydroton stays wet, and use a powerful air pump with lots of air stones. I could always add a water pump in later.

I also went ahead and purchased from Amazon:

• HM Digital Pocket Size TDS Meter TDS-4 Water Quality Tester $21
• Milwaukee PH TESTER PH 600 AQ $25
• Timex TX5170 Indoor/Outdoor Thermometer with Indoor Hygrometer and Clock $14
• 6x Feit Electric ESL40TN/D 42-Watt Compact Fluorescent High-Wattage Bulb, Daylight $58
• 6x 42 Watt - CFL - 150 W Equal - 2700K Warm White - Min. Start Temp. -20 Deg. F - CRI 82 - 67 Lumens per Watt - 15 Month Warranty - TCP 801042 $22

Nothing has shipped yet, but I expect everything to arrive within a couple of weeks.

Still need to purchase:

• TDS meter calibration solution
• air pump (Eco Air 2) $14.95
• water pump (Eco 185) $14.99
• hydroton $10
• aquarium line hose
• hoses and lines to attach pump to net pots
• charcoal filter
• fan - inline duct fan?
• electrical cord
• 4 bulb sockets
• 4 y-connectors for bulbs
• timer
• more hardboard for walls/door
• door hinges

 

[PrairiePoet]

A five gallon tote will not be big enough for your grow. In my opinion for two plants in flowering.

A single small plant can drink a gallon of water per day. I grow two plants in a slightly larger inclosed space in 10 gallon tubs. I've seen mine drink 1.5 gallons in 24 hours.

When the plants are drinking 20% or more of the res in 24 hours, then you have a harder time keeping pH and water temps at the proper levels. The larger the reservoir, the less the plants affect everything. Think of it as a buffer. The less changing, the more stable, the less stress to the plants.

And a five gallon tote won't have 5 gallons of water and nutes. More like 3 to 3.5.

just my 1.99 cents.

 

[Sam Spade]

Thanks PrairiePoet, I was wondering about that myself. So would a 5 gallon tote be big enough for one plant? Or, how big of a tote would I need to grow two plants?

 

[PrairiePoet]

Thanks PrairiePoet, I was wondering about that myself. So would a 5 gallon tote be big enough for one plant? Or, how big of a tote would I need to grow two plants?

For me with two plants a 10 gallon is the minimum. I started with the same setup as you have been looking at from Tulip (you have to laugh at the names 420Mag staff gives to users that have left).

The base SH kit, one tub, two lights. I grew four plants in it and it was a wild ride. But I did get a little over three ounces from it the first grow.

I've added to the grow since then and was running three tubs, two in flowering one in veg. Kept adding CFL lights each grow, until the last two grows, where I replaced six 85 CFL's with two 150 HPS, and left in one 85 CFL (blue range). Decreased my power consumption, while holding yield. I'm now able to get around 5 ounces from two plants, with rotating crop every six weeks.

So I do agree with what TS is saying. HPS isn't as bad as we think about it. A little 250 switchable for your closet would be very good fit. Would suggest air cooled as best as you can. You will actually have less heat than ten 42 CFL's and either the same or more lumens.

Though it is always best to go with what you feel comfortable with, and try to keep it simple. I like your cabinet and wish you good luck. I'll be keeping an eye out for anything I can suggest for you.

 

[Sam Spade]

I'm going to need a bucket to catch all this knowledge raining down on me from everyone! You saved me from likely disaster, Prairie. A two-day camping trip could have really hurt them. Five gallons per plant it is.

So looks like I either grow one plant in my 5 gallon or I return it and get a 10 gallon somewhere (I'll have to go online since I couldn't find much between 5 gallons and 18 gallons at target, home despot, or wally world). Maybe I should just do one plant for this first grow -- since I really do want this to be a small experimental grow -- and later upgrade to a two-plant 10 gallon tote as I rethink my light situation. I can then use the 5 gallon tote for a momma plant placed in my converted file cabinet. Plus, a small 5 gallon tote might not even need a real water pump -- a strong air pump with multiple stones might be enough as long as the net pots are contacting water (somebody correct me if I am wrong here). A water pump might still be handy for reservoir draining purposes though. Heck, they are under $20 at the hydro store.

It so happens that Amazon just cancelled the six 42-watt 2700k bulbs I ordered (they said they couldn't get more from 1000bulbs). That means I'll only be receiving six 42-watt 6500k bulbs (16,800 total lumens). Maybe the universe is saying that instead of replacing the 6@2700k order I should veg with those six @6500k, and then buy a cheap 250-watt (or so) HPS for flowering time.

 

[PrairiePoet]

Until the roots come out of the netpots and are reaching into the water, you need to pump water into each net pot. That is part of the bubbler tech (DWC).

 

[Sam Spade]

Yesterday I was informed that I'll be spending a week in December with the in-laws. Although I will be growing from clones, I think late August to late December might be cutting it close for a newbie's full grow cycle, especially with curing time. I suppose I could just go to flower earlier, but that would of course decrease my yield. And even IF that was enough time, I still want to be able to go on vacation from time to time. I think the solution lies in a larger reservoir, which would also increase the "stability" of my system as per Prarie's comments. And besides, I hear ebb and flow also lets the roots air out more, which is a good thing.

Right now I am thinking about doing an ebb and flow system featuring one 20 gallon reservoir tote and one 5 gallon grow tote. If my one and only plant drinks 2 gallons of water per day (seems like a lot, but I want to be safe), I will need 14 gallons of water for a 7 day trip. But I'll also need an extra 4 gallons of water so that the grow tote can be filled without the reservoir going dry -- and the pump burning up -- towards the end of the week. So 14 gallons, plus 4 gallons = 18 gallons, but I should probably get a 20 gallon reservoir in light of the fact that the tubs won't be completely full (i.e., a 20 gallon res might actually hold about 18 gallons). And when I'm around and not on vacation, I of course wouldn't have to fill the 20 gallon reservoir to capacity -- doing so would waste nutes anyway.

Unless anyone can come up with a better solution...

 

[neelablore]

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