Concerned, rather worried about this plant

[Aweedtec]

The trichomes start off clear and then turn cloudy about the time they stop producing THC then over the next several weeks a percentage of them will turn amber as they degrade. Some like the effect/high when the trichomes are as close to 100% cloudy and some like to wait another 2 or more weeks till they see 10 to 20% amber.

Some growers wait until the stigma/pistils pretty much have all turned a brown or reddish-brown color and shrunken back enough that it looks like they were pulled back into the plant. Then they look at the trichome color.


With practice and after several grows the gardener starts to see patterns. As the end is approaching the leaves can change appearance and color. The rate of growth of the buds changes. Fewer and fewer new stigma/pistils are growing and eventually next to no new ones. There are more things happening.

You want at a minimum of 8 weeks of flowering. Some say to start counting the day that light schedule is changed and some say to start the count when the stigma/pistils start to show. My personal view is 1 week after the light change for transition with the next 8 weeks for minimum flower development. What happens after that is up to me based on overall plant health & appearance. I am not a big fan of the couch-lock effect so for the most part I harvest 9 to 10 weeks after the light change. Sativa or Indica dominant plants have their differences with the Sativa tending to take a bit longer than the Indica to reach any common stage of growth or maturity.

This coming Wednesday will be 5 weeks since you changed the light schedule so another 4 weeks minimum allowing for the one week transition and 8 weeks flowering time.


Figuring out when the week or two from harvest is going to be is part of the watching for patterns. But, what is the point of stopping the plants being able to take in nutrients? Makes no sense to start to kill the plant since the last two weeks are just as important as any other two weeks in the flowering stage.

Skip this worry about stopping the feeding. Next to look up is the harvesting itself including trimming, drying and curing. Lots of different methods and theories. Got 4 weeks and a couple of days.

might as well try it. the plant's never been on proper nutes or feeding schedule. why start now ?
doing something is better than doing nothing and letting it starve.

again, that product is only part of a feeding program.

I bought the metabolic transformer too.
I will have everything on the next grow and I am going to do 2/2
2 plants that are grown with the entire dr earth system and the geoflora system on the other two.

 

[Aweedtec]

The trichomes start off clear and then turn cloudy about the time they stop producing THC then over the next several weeks a percentage of them will turn amber as they degrade. Some like the effect/high when the trichomes are as close to 100% cloudy and some like to wait another 2 or more weeks till they see 10 to 20% amber.

Some growers wait until the stigma/pistils pretty much have all turned a brown or reddish-brown color and shrunken back enough that it looks like they were pulled back into the plant. Then they look at the trichome color.


With practice and after several grows the gardener starts to see patterns. As the end is approaching the leaves can change appearance and color. The rate of growth of the buds changes. Fewer and fewer new stigma/pistils are growing and eventually next to no new ones. There are more things happening.

You want at a minimum of 8 weeks of flowering. Some say to start counting the day that light schedule is changed and some say to start the count when the stigma/pistils start to show. My personal view is 1 week after the light change for transition with the next 8 weeks for minimum flower development. What happens after that is up to me based on overall plant health & appearance. I am not a big fan of the couch-lock effect so for the most part I harvest 9 to 10 weeks after the light change. Sativa or Indica dominant plants have their differences with the Sativa tending to take a bit longer than the Indica to reach any common stage of growth or maturity.

This coming Wednesday will be 5 weeks since you changed the light schedule so another 4 weeks minimum allowing for the one week transition and 8 weeks flowering time.


Figuring out when the week or two from harvest is going to be is part of the watching for patterns. But, what is the point of stopping the plants being able to take in nutrients? Makes no sense to start to kill the plant since the last two weeks are just as important as any other two weeks in the flowering stage.

Skip this worry about stopping the feeding. Next to look up is the harvesting itself including trimming, drying and curing. Lots of different methods and theories. Got 4 weeks and a couple of days.

I think I am just going to flush the soil off and then hang them by the roots in my closet. It has a really long hanger poll. about 12 foot long. Then wait until it dries a bit to trim it up.
I purchased a microscope that connects to the phone and that plant in my closet has cloudy trichomes already and some amber.
I believe it will be ready long before the basement plants. But I didnt see enough to justify anything tonight. The microscope got here too fast right before the lights went out. So I will do some checking tomorrow. Ive tried to snap some photos but damn that thing is 1000X and every move is huge movement on the flower.

 

[Aweedtec]

Come to find out the 1000x microscope is too intense to make a determination using it. It makes all the trichomes look cloudy when they're not. The better way is a 60x loupe. The 90x loupe feature is too small to see anything and the 30x is not enough magnification for someone as blind as I've gotten over the past 5 years.

So here is how the plant is doing currently. After a feeding and then one day shy of a week later they needed watering so I gave them the Liquid Gold and it seem to have been favorable. This system isnt so bad once you have all the parts.

I've learned it should have been fed something different every single week. They probably suffered yield because of it but water under the bridge now. I have some metabolic transformer that will be here tomorrow and I will probably feed them that once with another round of Liquid Gold 1-1-1 and then see what happens. I may make it to the next feeding period. But if so then I have two weeks of just watering it off.

What would you do if it appears to be finished before the 2 weeks of watering?
I dont think that will happen with my basement plants. But its possible it could happen to the plant in my closet. The one this thread is about.

****************
The last photo is not of the plant this thread was made for... Its of the three basement plants. But I included it because I like the photo.
Love the purple in two of them. Strangely two of them are blueberry pancakes and I dont know what the other one is. But, the strange thing of the two blueberry pancakes is one of them is purple on the leaves and the other has no purple on the leaves but does have purple stems. Both smell identically the same. I guess those strains can grow different looking. Especially if one gets stunted multiple times and the other one does not.
The middle purple plant smells like gas and bad breath. I still dont know what strain the plant this thread was made for and the one that smells like gas and bad breath are and cant find anything that looks like them.

 

[Aweedtec]

Want to report something to you guys so you know because this is pretty important when someone is using the Dr Earth system.

My plants leaves turned light green right before the lights were flipped and someone on this forum warned me about the plant being light green. Since then, I have been trying to figure out what caused it.

I have heard many reasons why. Including that it was root locked and that there was no way to get this plant to pick up nutrients and that it was zapping the leaves. This MAY have been true if I were using everything in the Dr Earth system.
But I wasnt.

I was missing three parts of the system. The Metabolic Transformer, The Liquid Gold and the Orange bag of Fertilizer.

Well, I gave it the liquid gold a few days ago and it looked to brighten up the flowers the next day.

Then I gave it the Metabolic Transformer two nights ago for the first time.

Consider that the Advanced System for growing Cannabis calls for Metabolic Transformer every other week once in 12/12. It calls for it to be mixed in with your original soil and then once in the last week of veg. Then every other week while in bloom. At the same time It calls for Liquid gold(which is just 1-1-1) starting during the second week of veg and then every other week from there for the life of the plant.

These parts of the system were not only neglected... But so was one two week period of the Veg fertilizers.


I can confirm now that it is absolutely essential to have these two parts of the system.

I gave the yellow plant the Metabolic Transformer two nights ago and the totally yellowed leaves have started turning green. ALL OF THEM. Which means the plant was not root locked. It was just starved for a reason to pick up nutrients.

It is sitting in pro mix (red bag) and that's it.

I understand people on the forum here thinking it was root locked. I tried every nutrient there was and it did nothing for the plant. But the moment i give it that which is essential for roots to pick up nutrients, the leaves started to change to green. I dont believe they will turn to dark green because of the age of the plant. Its already in its 11th week. I am supposed to have given the plant one more bloom booster during this week. But I have to wait until the middle of the 12th week. Reason? Because I just gave it the Bloom Booster fertilizer on the 7th. So I have to wait three more days before I give it the last load of powder fertilizer. Then after that, the following week the schedule calls for one more Liquid Gold feeding and then its time for two weeks of flushing only with no nutrients.

I dont know that I can consider the plants in my basement on the same schedule because they are so far behind this plant in my closet. But I suppose 3 weeks of the plants getting the proper nutrients could make all the difference in the world to yield.

What a mistake I made here. To not have that entire system(partly my room mates fault for telling me Canuk only uses two parts of the system... there is just no way... and partly because I stupidly should have looked into this before I took possession of these plants). was just stupid. I should have looked deeper into it when I justified not getting the advanced portion of the nutrients because I felt that it was for advanced growers. But these nutrients are necessary for the plant.

I'm shocked this plant lived to where it is today and has recovered as much as it has. I just wonder what it could have been had I not been lazy on getting the entire system.

 

[Azimuth]

They say it's for advanced growers because they break out the various components from each other rather than having a one size fits all approach since different plants can like slightly different ratios of things. The different inputs allows the grow to tailor the amounts used to the plant. They should have a general guideline for their basic use though.

 

[Aweedtec]

They say it's for advanced growers because they break out the various components from each other rather than having a one size fits all approach since different plants can like slightly different ratios of things. The different inputs allows the grow to tailor the amounts used to the plant. They should have a general guideline for their basic use though.

You dont think its more about soil versus mediums without soil?

I only say this because I watched a video from Dr earth and they spoke about soil and how it has microorganisms in it that condition roots to pick up nutrients. I would assume you dont have that in media such as peat moss and perlite.

They made it seem like their system makes medium into being good like soil. But they are a company so I would not put some dishonesty as impossible from them.

They really show nothing but that schedule and its very basic. To me, since i grabbed the advanced stuff the plants have clearly shown improvements.

But the metabolic transformer made the biggest difference so far. And the fastest. Its greener now than its been since it started flowering. And getting better. I think I will feed it one day early and see what happens. Maybe Monday instead of Tuesday.

 

[Azimuth]

Well, you're in soil, right? And you saw obvious improvement when you added the other things so I think you have your answer.

Some soils, like Super Soils, have all of the needed nutrients built in so maybe that's what they're referring to, but unless you actively build those in, they'll have to be supplied to satisfy the needs of the plant.

 

[Aweedtec]

Well, you're in soil, right? And you saw obvious improvement when you added the other things so I think you have your answer.

Some soils, like Super Soils, have all of the needed nutrients built in so maybe that's what they're referring to, but unless you actively build those in, they'll have to be supplied to satisfy the needs of the plant.

I'm not actually in soil., Its just peat moss and perlite. Unless you consider that soil. But it doesn't have any active ingredients like the Pro Mix BX HC or HP has. It is just straight peat moss and perlite. We didnt put anything else in. I wanted the worm castings and coco coir but when we were transplanting the stores didnt have any and I needed to get these plants transplanted and only had one day to do it back then as I was starting to tear someone's roof off their house and rebuild. Which took most of my time. Its why I missed so much information in the beginning and relied on my roommate. Which turned out to be a bad move. Also I didnt have the metabolic transformer. Which I now feel was a necessary ingredient to start with. It conditions roots to receive more nutrients. After seeing what it did with my plant I am certain it is the most important part of the system IF you get a plant that has roots that are trying to make up for a plant that hangs a few feet outside of the bucket. I am convinced that stuff is necessary if you use the Dr Earth system and its the most expensive part of the system.

So when I do this again and make a journal.... what if I took this Dr Earth system and Geo Flora, got 2 seeds from the same strain in 2 different strains and see if there is a major difference in how plants respond to Dr Earth vs GeoFlora?

I am interested to see. I know @bluter doesn't believe Dr Earth is specifically for cannabis and I believe he is right about that. But even if I did such an experiment, that would not answer the question of, what soil or medium would the plants do better in.

I just believe if I had been giving these plants the metabolic transformer throughout the entire process they would have way greater yields. That stuff really made a huge difference on a yellowing plant., In one day. Now that plant has hardly any yellow leaves on it anymore. They are still very light green. Which means It didnt darken them up like is have liked it to have done. But it did give all the leaves a reprieve to continue feeding those flowers.


******************

I have a question for you regarding my other 3 plants.

They look to me to be significantly behind the plant in my closet. I mean, the flowers are not filling in like the plant this thread is about. They look good. Dont get me wrong. They are just not filling in like the plant in the closet. I am thinking about treating them like they are only at week 10 instead of beginning week 12.
Or do you think if I just continue on the schedule as is, by 14 weeks these plants will catch up given the metabolic transformer made a visible difference on the trouble plant?
Treating them like they are week 10 gets them skipped on the Bloom Booster but gives them two more cups of Transformer and 2 cups of liquid gold(1-1-1) at the same time.

I know this is not how it should be done. But I feel that metabolic transformer is super important when it comes to these plants being in Pro Mix without the HC or BX or HP. So basically its just peat moss and perlite. It has to be missing some stuff necessary for a great grow. Like worm castings and coco coir for sure.


So much I have learned in this grow. But still so much I dont know.


*********************************


So you can see how extensive a difference the Metabolic Transformer had on this plant... IN ONE DAY.....

Edit: They are two different methods of taking photos of course... One with the light on and one with it off and flash. But that is because for some reason you cant see the green as well with the light on. You can still see it, but not nearly as well with the light off and flash.
If you look bottom right of the plant in the first photo....you can see one leaf that is completely yellow. That is what ALL leaves on the canopy looked like the day before I used the Metabolic Transformer. Only leaves around the edges of the plant had green left on top and on bottom there were very dark green leaves. And of course the leaves right under flowers. But everything else was completely yellow like that one leaf in the mid lower right of the plant.

 

[Azimuth]

Once you get into flower, and I mean pistil and bud formation not simply the light hours change, the plant will change from root production to bud production so I'm not sure how much improvement you'll get from inputs designed for the roots and intended to be used in veg.

On your other point, I'm all up for experimentation and do it all the time in my threads but we already know the GeoFlora works really well for canna. If you want to try your other stuff to compare because of whatever reason (cost, accessibility, etc) then have at it, but you're reinventing the wheel a bit and you have to consider your grow a science experiment.

I do that all the time so I'm not dissing the idea, but you need to understand that that's what you're doing. If you want a simple, super effective organic grow, then Geoflora will get you done. If you like to play around and experiment then your side-by-side experiment might give you some interesting results.

 

[Aweedtec]

Once you get into flower, and I mean pistil and bud formation not simply the light hours change, the plant will change from root production to bud production so I'm not sure how much improvement you'll get from inputs designed for the roots and intended to be used in veg.

If you mean the Metabolic transformer..... Its main design is to condition roots that exist to pick up the nutrients.

This plant has had an issue since before it was in bloom. Someone mentioned it was too light while in veg about a week before the lights were flipped. It has never fully recovered from that.

I see amber trichomes and some cloudy right now on that plant. No where near enough to determine that its finished. But It has me looking at it every day closely. I dont want couch lock as much as I can help it because that would probably happen for me after an hour no matter when I harvest.

I do that all the time so I'm not dissing the idea, but you need to understand that that's what you're doing. If you want a simple, super effective organic grow, then Geoflora will get you done. If you like to play around and experiment then your side-by-side experiment might give you some interesting results.

I dont think I can ever just have it simple. I am someone who has too much curiosity and I always want to perfect whatever I do.
Usually I can get it on the first shot. But there was no way that was happening with this because of how it was foisted on me.
But, before I start messing around experimenting I wanted to make sure I could see this through to completion while under a heavy schedule.



Ultimately it comes down to this.... I already have the Dr Earth system. And I want to get the GeoFlora system.
So why not utilize it just to cement the truth.... whatever it may be?

I do believe the GeoFlora will do better. But I cant deny that half assing the Dr Earth system was not fair to Dr Earth either.

 

[bluter]

I do believe the GeoFlora will do better. But I cant deny that half assing the Dr Earth system was not fair to Dr Earth either.

just get the base nutes of any system, plus some calmag and ph up and down, and you'll smash it. be sure to keep up with the feeding schedule when you're sorted.

these ones aren't even doing that bad considering what's occurred.

 

[Aweedtec]

Update.... I think its getting close... but still seeing clear and cloudy trichomes. Not many amber. But there are a few. Here and there. And only a few on the top got those black leaves. Or dark purple.
The rest are all green leaves directly under the flowers.

I suppose its flush time huh?

 

[bluter]

getting close. feed right until chop.

 

[Indicolas]

You can still defoliate slowly. Way too bushy. Secondary fans can be removed to send more nutes up to the flower. And I would diminish nutes to half. Looks like the plant missed its stretch due to some stress at that time.

 

[Azimuth]

I suppose its flush time huh?

Depends on why you want to flush. If it's your reset the soil for the next run, fine, but if it's to somehow magically cleanse the flower of harsh nute taste, unfortunately that's not a thing.

I agree with Bluter. Feed 'em till the end.

 

[Aweedtec]

Depends on why you want to flush. If it's your reset the soil for the next run, fine, but if it's to somehow magically cleanse the flower of harsh nute taste, unfortunately that's not a thing.

I agree with Bluter. Feed 'em till the end.

Where do people get this stuff from then? I see it all over the place. I did kind of think it sounded silly. When I think about it.... Nutrients are in plant because that is what its made up of. The nutrients make it what it is.
How can flushing make it not what it is? This idea would also mean, once you notice its ready.. You would have to stop feeding it for 2 weeks while you water flush it for 2 weeks. Which then it would be further advanced and then maybe NOT where you wanted to harvest. Been wondering about that.

 

[SmokingWings]

This idea would also mean, once you notice its ready.. You would have to stop feeding it for 2 weeks while you water flush it for 2 weeks.

My theory is that the growers who use mostly the chemical based fertilizers experienced a build-up of the salt ions common to these fertilizers. If they continued to allow these fertilizer salts to accumulate the growers noticed their plants were starting to show signs of stress such as leaf burn, slow down in growth, and possibly the plant dying.

This became a major problem for many of the hydroponic growers who were using these chemical fertilizers on an almost daily basis and the salts were building up on the substitute materials being used as a way to hold the roots and plant in place. The answer was to "flush" these salts out by flooding the container with clean water with no fertilizers mixed in. Then the normal water & fertilizer schedule could resume. Soil growers who use these same chemical fertilizers will sometimes notice the same sorts of problems and will flush their soil of the salts.

Many fertilizer companies that specialize in these chemical fertilizers intended for Cannabis growing now have at least one "flush" built into the schedule and it shows up when the plant has been in the flowering stage for 6 weeks with at least two more weeks to go. The problem is that some growers started to think that this meant that the flush was taking place over the entire final two weeks instead of just several hours two weeks before harvest. For the most part they seem to miss that the final two weeks in the schedule show that the fertilizing has resumed.

Where do people get this stuff from then? I see it all over the place.

And that is where this stuff comes from. One person pointing out a growing method and the next person repeating it and the next couple picking up on it and repeating it.

Since you are growing in a mix of Peat Moss and Perlite doing a one time flush might be beneficial. The big thing to think about is the types of fertilizer you are using and do what you think will be best.

 

[bluter]

the whole flushing thing began in the 70's / 80's with the advent of hydro shops. nutes were completely different back then, mostly it was unbranded salts the hydro shop sold in bulk that the grower mixed at home. pre-mixed liquid nutes were mixed at the shop, usually from the same salts, and were also unbranded.

most nutes used to carry the hydro shop name and not a brand name until general hydroponics showed up.

because the early nutes were so crude there would be a number of issues as the plant matured. hydro shops began recommending the flush under the impression the plant was using 'stored' nutes to finish, as a way of ensuring the plants made it to harvest.

there was some precedent for it, as it was known even then that the plant would feed off it's leaves in the absence of nutes. it was assumed the plant was using the stored nutes and lowering it's chemical content as a result. more is known now.

the practice became common and was mistakenly included in some how to growing guides during the pre-internet days. information was harder to find or share back then, and the practice became entrenched.

 

[Aweedtec]

So, I finally upgraded my phone and when I did it made it possible for me to take photos that are the actual color representations that I see IRL.

So here are some photos of this plant.....

The colors you see on your screen are accurate now. All of the other photos I have posted were with an S21 ultra.
These were taken with the S23 Ultra. I think there was something wrong with my other phone. Especially the camera. It probably took one too many falls.

Also, the photos of the entire plant dont show the side with the most flowers. It just shows the side with the largest flowers.

 

[Aweedtec]

Update on my three basement dwellers....

I dont know why the one Blueberry Pancakes is acting so funny. The other one is perfect.

The one with the yellow leaves is blueberry pancakes and the one with the red leaves is blueberry pancakes.
I believe it has a manganese deficiency. That is the only deficiency it looks like in charts. But I dont know how to give it manganese without givign it all the other nutes... and they have had enough nutes.

Then there is the three last photos of what is the middle plant in my basement. I have no idea what that strain is but it smells good. And looks strange. lol

I would say the three plants in the basement are at 12 weeks of life. The plant in my closet(which this thread is made for) is 13 weeks of life. All were switched to 12/12 on the same day though. Oct 10th.

About 7 and a half weeks of flower right now.