Does it make any economical or rational sense to veg for a month before flowering?

aphrodisia

Well-Known Member
Every book on growing cannabis you would have read will have stated that plants have to be vegged for a minimum of 4 weeks before switching to flowering but does this actually make any sense ? By the way let me add a proviso here, if you are one of these people who like to grow trees and veg your plants for two months or more before flowering this thread isnt for you carry on as you are but if like most home growers who have had a quick read of a cultivation book and only veg their plants for 4 weeks before initiating flowering then carry on reading.
I grow 12/12 from seed and have been doing so for years now but before going the 12/12 route I too for many years used to waste valuable time and electricity in vegging my plants for 4 weeks before flowering and since begining to use the 12/12 from seed method the one thing that has really caught my attention is the fact that it doesnt make a blind bit of difference to your final yields whether you veg for 4 weeks or not and in fact in many cases it seems to me going the 12/12 from seed route provides you with denser bud and an increased yield than the traditional method.
to illustrate my point I carried out a little experiment, although I dont normally veg my plants I decided to veg 3 plants for 30 days before flowering and one plant I grew 12/12 from seed. have a look at the pictures of the 4 plants below, 3 were vegged for 30 days and one was grown 12/12 from seed, can anyone tell which is which ?







When you start a plant under a 12/12 regimen the plant doesnt just begin flowering right away, it still veges itself for a month before the flowering process begins anyway and since it doesnt make any difference to your final yields why waste an extra 6 hours of electricity a day for four weeks before begining to flower ?, it makes no sense.
Being a 12/12 from seed grower I'm so used to my grows finishing in 10 weeks (unless of course I am growing a pure sativa) that because of the extra month I spent in vegging these 3 plants this particular grow seemed to just go on forever, I certainly wouldnt be doing that again.

 
Yes and that is the whole point I am trying to illustrate, it just seems to me a pointless exercise vegging for a month before flowering when it makes no difference to your final yields.
Oh, but in the right hands it can make a huge difference.

Some varieties will not bloom until reaching maturity at 5 weeks or more and some are ready to go at 4 weeks, as you have noted. We don't have much choice over when this happens, no matter the lighting we put them into.

The adage however is that every week that you spend past this point of maturity, still vegging, you can double your eventual yield. A plant sent directly to bloom at 4 weeks might quickly produce an ounce and a half, whereas waiting another week or two and letting it bush out some more and by using trimming and training techniques, could easily net you 3 ounces. Let it go for 2 months in veg in a 5 gallon container, and you could easily get 4 or 5 ounces. Really go long at veg and run it 10-12 weeks and you can build up into a large 10gal or bigger container, and you could easily end up with a pound or more of product.

So its your choice of course, to go fast and get smaller yields or be patient and go for bigger harvests, and then it comes down to how fast and efficiently can you run them... can you beat a long vegger to harvest enough times so as to be able to get close to the same yields? With enough plants and enough work at it, you can come close... but it is a whole lot more work to do it that way.
 
Having described why we veg longer, let me also describe the experiments I have done with lighting during veg. Using the gas lantern technique it is possible to keep them vegging in even less than 12 hours of light, but you have not yet examined that so I won't dive down into that rabbit hole.

I have tried your method, and found that I can indeed develop a small, fast and unremarkable plant using 12/12 or less lighting and going right into bloom, but I have also noted a dramatic increase in plant development by increasing the light period, not just to 18/6 but even all the way to 24/0. Using 24/0 in the beginning of veg I have been able to achieve almost hydro speed growth in soil, and definitely, without question, develop much larger and vibrant plants by using MORE light, not less. I have settled in on 18/6 for veg because it just helps them establish a night/day pattern that also helps with water usage, but If I wanted to push my plants, I would use more light, not less.

As far as the cost of power goes... I really don't care much about that additional 6 hours each day. I installed solar panels to take care of this expense and I didn't go into this thinking it was going to be a cheap hobby.
 
A member on here did something similar. Some interesting for you if you're interested.


Thread 'From Seed' From Seed

Hi Rexer, havent had the time to flip through all 26 pages but from what I could see on the first page he vegged his plants for 28 days before flipping, thats not 12/12 from seed.
 
Well, the extra 6 hours of light isnt always a "waste" you see.
Its all about Daily Light Integral.

If you can have a nice DLI with 12 hours of light, nice, but others who cant are loosing yield not having those 6 extra hours of light.

If your PAR isnt enough for a 12/12 photoperiod then I very much doubt it will be enough for 18/6 too, or are you planning on flowering your plants under an 18/6 photoperiod?
 
12/12 from seed and vegging for just 30 days are both just vegging for 30 days.
So depending on what your overall DLI is there shouldn't be a huge difference.

What is your usual yield?

If you veg for 60 days then your yield should be about double.

If you just like the quickness of 12/12 from seed then you should do a SOG and pack as many plants as you can in your space.
I only have a 2x5 space and can only fit two plants so in order to maximize yield and quality I veg for between 6 to 8 weeks to fill that space up wall to wall.
I veg for 20 hours a day for most of that 6-8 weeks for a total cost of between $18 to $24.
12 hours a day for 30 days is about $8.
The extra $10-$16 of electricity for a full veg is well worth it to me.

I did a quick experiment a couple years ago where I just vegged for 2 weeks and flipped to 12/12 to see if I could get a photo-period to yield about the same as an autoflower in a total of 10 weeks and I only got a little over 2 1/2 oz for that one plant.
So fast vegging isn't for me, I don't have the space to make it worthwhile.
 
Well, there are few keypoints here.
If your PAR isnt enough for a 12/12 photoperiod then I very much doubt it will be enough for 18/6 too, or are you planning on flowering your plants under an 18/6 photoperiod?

Its very easy to achieve a nice DLI into 18/6, so i dont see what are you doubting kkkk
Not so easy at 12/12, that was my point.

Another key points to your theory, increasing veg time = increasing yield

Increasing DLI to an optimal rate = increasing yield.

For every dollar you spend with energy, you win another 30 to 50 with increasing yield. (i know, many variables involved in this one).

But your theory could be a good one for those who like to speedveg for only a month, and who have a nice lighting setup that gives at least 1000PPFD along the entire grow room.

In my opinion, if you want to add value to the equation, veg it until you fill your grow space.
Speed in achieving flowering time means youre loosing potential yield by not vegging longer.

I dont see an actual logic in economy of 6 hours of light, and loosing ounces of yield for not waiting a few weeks more. This is really conterproductive.
 
12/12 from seed and vegging for just 30 days are both just vegging for 30 days.
So depending on what your overall DLI is there shouldn't be a huge difference.

What is your usual yield?

If you veg for 60 days then your yield should be about double.

If you just like the quickness of 12/12 from seed then you should do a SOG and pack as many plants as you can in your space.
I only have a 2x5 space and can only fit two plants so in order to maximize yield and quality I veg for between 6 to 8 weeks to fill that space up wall to wall.
I veg for 20 hours a day for most of that 6-8 weeks for a total cost of between $18 to $24.
12 hours a day for 30 days is about $8.
The extra $10-$16 of electricity for a full veg is well worth it to me.

I did a quick experiment a couple years ago where I just vegged for 2 weeks and flipped to 12/12 to see if I could get a photo-period to yield about the same as an autoflower in a total of 10 weeks and I only got a little over 2 1/2 oz for that one plant.
So fast vegging isn't for me, I don't have the space to make it worthwhile.

Yes you are right 12/12 from seed and vegging for only 30 days are more or less the same and this was the point I was trying to make so why waste an extra 6 hours of electricity a day for 4 weeks achieving the same results?
I average between 60 to 100 grams per plant using this method and that is good enough for me, I only grow for myself and it meets my requirements adequately plus I mostly finish my grows in ten weeks and I dont need to wait for one grow to finish before starting the next grow.
Like I wrote in my opening comment above some people like you like to grow trees and veg their plants for a long time before flowering I can understand that too, it all depends on your particular situation and if you have the patience to do that and of course if you are prepared to veg your plants for 2 months or more then you are definitely going to have more bud at the end of it.
 
Well, there are few keypoints here.


Its very easy to achieve a nice DLI into 18/6, so i dont see what are you doubting kkkk
Not so easy at 12/12, that was my point.

Another key points to your theory, increasing veg time = increasing yield

Increasing DLI to an optimal rate = increasing yield.

For every dollar you spend with energy, you win another 30 to 50 with increasing yield. (i know, many variables involved in this one).

But your theory could be a good one for those who like to speedveg for only a month, and who have a nice lighting setup that gives at least 1000PPFD along the entire grow room.

In my opinion, if you want to add value to the equation, veg it until you fill your grow space.
Speed in achieving flowering time means youre loosing potential yield by not vegging longer.

I dont see an actual logic in economy of 6 hours of light, and loosing ounces of yield for not waiting a few weeks more. This is really conterproductive.

I am quite happy with my results and the pictures speak for themselves, plus see my reply to Nunyabiz. Peace.
 
he point I was trying to make so why waste an extra 6 hours of electricity a day for 4 weeks achieving the same results?
I average between 60 to 100 grams per plant using this method and that is good enough for me, I only grow for myself and it meets my requirements adequately plus I mostly finish my grows in ten weeks and I dont need to wait for one grow to finish before starting the next grow.
The point we are making to you is that you will NOT get the same results giving only 12 hours of light a day as someone giving 18 or 24. The point you make however that this is good enough for you is a valid one... I however don't have that luxury. I am providing medical cannabis to 2 other patients besides myself and I have an obligation to produce a large amount of pot. I need the most yield out of very plant that I can get, weighed against the size of my room and the ability of my lights as to how long I veg and what sized containers to run. My point is that I am NOT wasting electricity... not at all. I get roughly 10x the amount of product per plant as you do, and that my friend, is well worth the extra electricity.
 
Cool thread, this one actually made me sit my tea down.
The top right plant is the one I would vote for. BUT..there are way too many variables in growing to definitively say that's correct. Give me a controlled experiment and then we'll talk turkey. The top right plant shows the classic "reaching for the sky" we all see in plants that need more light. Buds seem to be less dense as well, more airy. Stalks are spindly but it's kind of hard to tell without a close up.
As far as the the topic, plants can only soak up or "use" a certain amount of light in a day. That being said, it's up to the grower to ensure that the plant has everything else it needs to efficiently process that light. Water, Co2, nutes, air and plant structure, roots, etc. If all of those things aren't jivin' with each other then you are not letting the plant live up to it's full potential.
If you can find the magic numbers to do that from seed on 12/12 then that's awesome! But the tell all is doing it in a controlled grow AND looking at (or smoking) bud quality, which we can't see from those pics. I might try just that too, that would be fun. But I would be like Bill Nye and see what exactly the differences would be. It's too bad he ain't a reefer ruffian..I'd take a toke with Bill fo sho. lol
 
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