Droughting and its medicinal effects in cannabis

[Azimuth]

Thanks, @Krissi Carbone . Glad we are all on the same page more or less. And now, back to your regularly scheduled programming...

I like the idea of focusing next on the trichomes and see what we can learn there, whether it's early starting or trying to correlate what they look like at the magic LWA or whatever.

I think we should all observe our buds and share commonalities. Then when we think there is something to more scientifically test we can do the side-by-side with clones. But to start, just make it easy to gather generalized data from a broader audience.

That's what we're doing in the Bud Rot and Mold Vs Microbes thread. There's a general guideline for trying the process, but no real strict requirements to join the experiment.

Once we learn what might work or not, we can maybe get more narrow in future rounds, but right now we're just trying to find out if there's something to the concept.

 

[Hafta]

I need some time time to go through this and comment. Thank you for sharing Stone

I do not @Lockoutmonkey. I keep my grow tent clean and bug free. You can bet when I do grow outside though, I'll be washing.


I was also confused. Thought I was just getting old

Yes

It happens....

Thank you for the science @Maritimer @InTheShed.

I don't want to seem like we are avoiding Caplans theory. I don't want it to seem like we are losing sight of the main goal-because we most certainly are NOT.

This study is what I started this thread from.

The whole purpose of this thread has been to educate on the idea of yet another stress technique that based off of Caplan's study, proves to be extremely beneficial to our harvested smokes and in doing so, our overall health in general.

So here we are at a cross roads. The young kids want to try out all the new stuff and experiment with new ideas.

I don't want to seem harsh in saying this because I believe in the original study-or I wouldn't be here, obviously-however.....

There is so much more to learn and to explore! That is all Azi is trying to say here and me for that matter. Yes this study showed the benefits of long term droughting, the study didn't attempt multiple shorter droughts. The study didn't suggest that there was a possibility that over a course of time, a plant that was droughted repeatedly over a series of x amount of weeks and not necessarily x amount of days in succession, that we would get any increased anything. It didn't note or look into if the plant during an earlier or shorter drought, takes 'mental notes' on what's going on.

We don't know because it wasn't studied, what exactly the trichome metamorphosis is and represents. Maybe it is something more than what we have discussed because, heck, we haven't discussed it.

Yes, if Caplan were to have said, I droughted some and not others, the droughted plants are better, I bet not many would listen. But some would.

Some would have tried a little of this and a little of that to see what else they could find out or notice.

I'm not a scientist. I'm not sitting here at Cornell in my lab chair, staring at my abstract notes and the molecular biologies of a trichome stalk.

No one is trying to suggest anything against Caplans original theory. What we are merely doing is trying to add some more thought to maybe some things that went overlooked.

Being the amazing morphological changes the plant goes through in a drought, as we have seen, all I am going to end this schpiel with is WHY DID NO ONE NOTICE THIS or at least comment on it? Surely this was enough of a 'wow, would you look at that' moment that someone would have turned their head and started asking some questions.

This isn't a small change. It isn't a well sometimes you see it and sometimes you don't change. It isn't a well I'm sure that's really nothing but an indicator light like a check engine light on your dashboard.

I just want to explore the trichome phenomenon more-when it starts and the actual reason why and how it relates to the increase in cannabinoid production. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it is just a sign the drought is eliciting the response we want (as aforementioned).

Can anyone work with me here on the what if though. On all the what ifs.

I'm running the study as he wanted us to, when to start how to manage it and when to finish it.

I'm finding more than what I read and you all have read and I have questions that can't be answered by the basic science we know surrounding droughting that came from Caplan's study.

I think we need to branch out some more and be open to the idea that Caplan could have been wrong or maybe not wrong but didn't just have the full picture.

I could be reaching for the stars here and have no legs to stand on but I'm willing at least to say that I DON'T KNOW. I am capable of admitting MAYBE THERE IS SOMETHING WE ARE MISSING.

I am ready and able and willing to try out whatever ideas I can and to document everything that I can.

I hope that me wanting to find out the things Cap didn't see/overlooked doesn't make it seem like I am discrediting the work he did in the first place; Gathering information on how the GRN works and all of the fancy science verbiage and research on the timing of the drought and JA pathway cues that led him to his theory.

This theory is missing some parts though and like I said, we base a lot of this study off of the morphological changes in plants in response to environmental and abiotic stress. So if we are basing it off of the changes, why not focus on this huge change we see, in the trichomes. Why don't we shift focus to what role this exactly plays-whether or not it may merely be an indicator that the drought is working in the ways Caplan intended.

I've seen amazing changes in a plant over just 4 days so to tell me that I have to reach a certain amount of days in order for it to work doesn't make sense to me. Maybe to achieve the numbers Caplan did, maybe to push the envelope. Maybe to ensure it was enough time to talk to the JA pathways and say hey guys, we got a problem, amp it all up.

All I know is that 4 days of drought or 9 which we are on for Maestro, ALL HAVE ELICITED THE RESPONSE OF INCREASED TRICHOMES in my plants (and this isn't just me saying it-we have pics to prove) followed by the morphological changes we see in the TWINNING AND CORALING.

My next idea is to drought 2 plants for 2 different amounts of days. Maybe do a staggered drought on one and a regular Caplan drought on another. Then test with a kit again. And again on another set of 2. And test again. And again.

The only way to know for sure if a response has been initiated is to do it this way, then over time, we can compare trich shots at specific times throughout a drought and see if we can come up with any trending factors.

I'll bank money that indicas and sativas will be affected differently. I'll bank money that each medium type and size of pot/container will all play a role and each of those plants will be affected differently.

I'm looking for new things. I'm grateful for all of you who have helped manifest questions and thoughts and provided feedback with your own trials of droughting in ways not originally discussed in Cap's study.

@Hafta, how long did you drought and you saw an increase in THC with your test kit? I know it wasn't 11 days.

Back to the droughting girl that is left in my Big Bull. Took these last night so it was Day 8 but we are technically at Day 9. I'll be back with Day 9 Scope Trichome Shots tonight.

@Mars Hydro FC4800 @Prescription Blend @DYNOMYCO Raised....
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@CannaPot BIG BULL PHOTOPERIOD, "MAESTRO":
PLANT/LEAF and NON-SCOPED BUD SHOTS

She has 3/4 wilted leaves, the rest are still pretty turgid and some even praying.

Day 8 droughted leaf

• Krissi Carbone
• Sep 26, 2022

Maestro @CannaPot Big Bull photoperiod
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@Mars Hydro...

Kannabia Black Domina x Early Pearl x Skunk

• Krissi Carbone
• Sep 26, 2022

Maestro @CannaPot Big Bull photoperiod
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@Mars Hydro...

Kannabia Black Domina x Early Pearl x Skunk

• Krissi Carbone
• Sep 26, 2022

Maestro @CannaPot Big Bull photoperiod
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@Mars Hydro...

Kannabia Black Domina x Early Pearl x Skunk

• Krissi Carbone
• Sep 26, 2022

Maestro @CannaPot Big Bull photoperiod
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@Mars Hydro...

Kannabia Black Domina x Early Pearl x Skunk

• Krissi Carbone
• Sep 26, 2022

Maestro @CannaPot Big Bull photoperiod
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@Mars Hydro...

Kannabia Black Domina x Early Pearl x Skunk

• Krissi Carbone
• Sep 26, 2022

Maestro @CannaPot Big Bull photoperiod
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@Mars Hydro...

Kannabia Black Domina x Early Pearl x Skunk

• Krissi Carbone
• Sep 26, 2022

Maestro @CannaPot Big Bull photoperiod
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@Mars Hydro...

Kannabia Black Domina x Early Pearl x Skunk

• Krissi Carbone
• Sep 26, 2022

Maestro @CannaPot Big Bull photoperiod
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@Mars Hydro...

Kannabia Black Domina x Early Pearl x Skunk

• Krissi Carbone
• Sep 26, 2022

Maestro @CannaPot Big Bull photoperiod
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@Mars Hydro...

She has some severe requests for Potash on a couple leaves. Her pot is absolutely dry as a bone.

Day 8 droughted 5gl water reserve pot

• Krissi Carbone
• Sep 26, 2022

Maestro @CannaPot Big Bull photoperiod
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@Mars Hydro...

Day 8 droughted 5gl water reserve pot

• Krissi Carbone
• Sep 26, 2022

Maestro @CannaPot Big Bull photoperiod
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@Mars Hydro...

Her leaf coloring is not half bad all things considered.

Kannabia Black Domina x Early Pearl x Skunk

• Krissi Carbone
• Sep 26, 2022

Maestro @CannaPot Big Bull photoperiod
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@Mars Hydro...

Day 8 droughted leaf

• Krissi Carbone
• Sep 26, 2022

Maestro @CannaPot Big Bull photoperiod
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@Mars Hydro...

Her buds are sticky and covered in trichies. Her leaves are brittle.

Kannabia Black Domina x Early Pearl x Skunk

• Krissi Carbone
• Sep 26, 2022

Maestro @CannaPot Big Bull photoperiod
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@Mars Hydro...

Kannabia Black Domina x Early Pearl x Skunk

• Krissi Carbone
• Sep 26, 2022

Maestro @CannaPot Big Bull photoperiod
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@Mars Hydro...

Kannabia Black Domina x Early Pearl x Skunk

• Krissi Carbone
• Sep 26, 2022

Maestro @CannaPot Big Bull photoperiod
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@Mars Hydro...

Kannabia Black Domina x Early Pearl x Skunk

• Krissi Carbone
• Sep 26, 2022

Maestro @CannaPot Big Bull photoperiod
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@Mars Hydro...

Kannabia Black Domina x Early Pearl x Skunk

• Krissi Carbone
• Sep 26, 2022

Maestro @CannaPot Big Bull photoperiod
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@Mars Hydro...

Kannabia Black Domina x Early Pearl x Skunk

• Krissi Carbone
• Sep 26, 2022

Maestro @CannaPot Big Bull photoperiod
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@Mars Hydro...

Kannabia Black Domina x Early Pearl x Skunk

• Krissi Carbone
• Sep 26, 2022

Maestro @CannaPot Big Bull photoperiod
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@Mars Hydro...

Kannabia Black Domina x Early Pearl x Skunk

• Krissi Carbone
• Sep 26, 2022

Maestro @CannaPot Big Bull photoperiod
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@Mars Hydro...

Kannabia Black Domina x Early Pearl x Skunk

• Krissi Carbone
• Sep 26, 2022

Maestro @CannaPot Big Bull photoperiod
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@Mars Hydro...

Kannabia Black Domina x Early Pearl x Skunk

• Krissi Carbone
• Sep 26, 2022

Maestro @CannaPot Big Bull photoperiod
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@Mars Hydro...

Kannabia Black Domina x Early Pearl x Skunk

• Krissi Carbone
• Sep 26, 2022

Maestro @CannaPot Big Bull photoperiod
DAY 8 DROUGHT
@Mars Hydro...

Happy Droughting!

@Krissi Carbone
Just got back from the mountains. My Sterile Hydro drought lasted seven days to reach the defined LWA.

 

[StoneOtter]

Stoneotter, we must promote Monique to Science Officer I says. She gots smarts and sounds honest.

I agree Maritimer, UVT is a cool place. I stumbled into iot a couple of times as a kid. They were doing botany back then. From wherever I was I could see a jade plant that took a whole greenhouse connected to the building I was in grabbing a shower in. Left an impression! She does seem right for this study! I bet you could trick her into coming on with your botanical charm!?
She's a deep well of info!

 

[Hafta]

Thanks, @Krissi Carbone . Glad we are all on the same page more or less. And now, back to your regularly scheduled programming...

I like the idea of focusing next on the trichomes and see what we can learn there, whether it's early starting or trying to correlate what they look like at the magic LWA or whatever.

I think we should all observe our buds and share commonalities. Then when we think there is something to more scientifically test we can do the side-by-side with clones. But to start, just make it easy to gather generalized data from a broader audience.

That's what we're doing in the Bud Rot and Mold Vs Microbes thread. There's a general guideline for trying the process, but no real strict requirements to join the experiment.

Once we learn what might work or not, we can maybe get more narrow in future rounds, but right now we're just trying to find out if there's something to the concept.

Just catching up.
Consider the possibility that the "coraling" trichome stems and double heads might be an indication of stress, not necessarily specific to droughting. The Panama grow that I droughted was harvested at three different times.
P1 .... After nine weeks of flower
P2 .... After twelve weeks of flower
P3 .... After seven days of drought and four days of attempted recovery.

My growing method is to apply constant stress through the third week of flower.

Below is a photo taken of a dry bud from the nine week flower cycle, taken seven days after harvest.

It would be hard to differentiate between this pattern and one following droughting.

Perhaps if the plants were un-stressed prior to droughting or a comparative before and after photo?

 

[GratefulBud]

Just catching up.
Consider the possibility that the "coraling" trichome stems and double heads might be an indication of stress, not necessarily specific to droughting. The Panama grow that I droughted was harvested at three different times.
P1 .... After nine weeks of flower
P2 .... After twelve weeks of flower
P3 .... After seven days of drought and four days of attempted recovery.

My growing method is to apply constant stress through the third week of flower.

Below is a photo taken of a dry bud from the nine week flower cycle, taken seven days after harvest.

It would be hard to differentiate between this pattern and one following droughting.

Perhaps if the plants were un-stressed prior to droughting or a comparative before and after photo?

Holy smokes that is impressive.

 

[Hafta]

Some more data to ponder ...........

These are from the non-droughted Jack Herer Auto that is currently curing (harvested 9/9)

 

[KeithLemon]

Some more data to ponder ...........

These are from the non-droughted Jack Herer Auto that is currently curing (harvested 9/9)

Nice

 

[Azimuth]

Some more data to ponder ...........

These are from the non-droughted Jack Herer Auto that is currently curing (harvested 9/9)

Thanks @Hafta . That's interesting and supports your theory about how the effect maybe just stress related as opposed to any specific stress. Those trichomes certainly look like many that @Krissi Carbone has posted. And you give your stress on the front end of the grow vs the back end when a typical draught would happen. Definitely more work needs to be done on this possibility.

And to recap, the stress you provide the plants is both daily leaf plucking while in veg and attaching weights to the stems to establish a weight lifting program for your girls, true?

I wonder if we can get the "nail in the trunk" crowd to post a near harvest pic of trichomes to see if that, too can elicit the response.

 

[Hafta]

Some more data to ponder ...........


Thanks @Hafta . That's interesting and supports your theory about how the effect maybe just stress related as opposed to any specific stress. Those trichomes certainly look like many that @Krissi Carbone has posted. And you give your stress on the front end of the grow vs the back end when a typical draught would happen. Definitely more work needs to be done on this possibility.

And to recap, the stress you provide the plants is both daily leaf plucking while in veg and attaching weights to the stems to establish a weight lifting program for your girls, true?

I wonder if we can get the "nail in the trunk" crowd to post a near harvest pic of trichomes to see if that, too can elicit the response.

Yes, those are the main stresses. It is important to be aggressive with the daily leaf plucking for optimum light penetration.
I also place the lights as close as possible (without leaf damage) from the time they are seedlings to forcibly stunt the growth and increase root production. This also decreases the space between nodes which increases the number of branches to be trained/harvested.
I like the idea of seeing the results from other forms of stress.

IMPORTANT NOTE
Even with the constant stress, there is a real increase in potency (measured 22% increase of THC with @Plantchek ) and effects when droughting follows everything else!

 

[Azimuth]

Video discussing trichome development. At about the 17 min mark he states that the longer the stalk the more terpenes and cannabinoids to be had.. he also cites a study for those looking for more in-depth research.

 

[KeithLemon]

Video discussing trichome development. At about the 17 min mark he states that the longer the stalk the more terpenes and cannabinoids to be had.. he also cites a study for those looking for more in-depth research.

That was cool.

 

[Hafta]

Video discussing trichome development. At about the 17 min mark he states that the longer the stalk the more terpenes and cannabinoids to be had.. he also cites a study for those looking for more in-depth research.

Wonderful info Azi.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[StoneOtter]

Video discussing trichome development. At about the 17 min mark he states that the longer the stalk the more terpenes and cannabinoids to be had.. he also cites a study for those looking for more in-depth research.

Thanks Azi, good to see the study! Longer stalks = more secretory cells = more of what we want!

 

[InTheShed]

IMPORTANT NOTE
Even with the constant stress, there is a real increase in potency (measured 22% increase of THC with @Plantchek )

I gotta ask: 22% increase in THC compared to unstressed clones?

Video discussing trichome development. At about the 17 min mark he states that the longer the stalk the more terpenes and cannabinoids to be had.. he also cites a study for those looking for more in-depth research.

Great video Azi

 

[Hafta]

I gotta ask: 22% increase in THC compared to unstressed clones?

I performed a twelve week flower cycle and harvested about fifty percent of the plant (dried and cured 217 grams). The @Plantchek test measured this at 18 - 20 % THC.

I allowed the plant to recover from the harvest and droughted the remaining 196 grams (dried and cured). The @Plantchek test measure this at 22 - 24 % THC.

Both tests were done on the same plant. The plant was grown under constant stress through the first three weeks of flower (CST) so nothing was un-stressed. Droughting was additional stress which netted an additional 4% THC, an increase of 22% over the 18% minimum readings. If I took the mid-range readings I guess the increase would be about 20%.

 

[InTheShed]

I performed a twelve week flower cycle and harvested about fifty percent of the plant (dried and cured 217 grams). The @Plantchek test measured this at 18 - 22 % THC.

I allowed the plant to recover from the harvest and droughted the remaining 196 grams (dried and cured). The @Plantchek test measure this at 22 - 26 % THC.

Both tests were done on the same plant. The plant was grown under constant stress through the first three weeks of flower (CST) so nothing was un-stressed. Droughting was additional stress which netted an additional 4% THC, an increase of 22% over the 18% minimum readings. If I took the mid-range readings I guess the increase would be about 20%.

I would certainly hope that a fully mature plant would test higher than a less mature plant. I know that another member here had hers tested in a similar way (not stressed, just later in flower) and found the same thing as you did.

Here is what she found:

I harvested 1 plant a week before the rest my plants (as it broke in half). It tested only 13%. Let the other 3 plants go 10 days later and got 17% from them.

My take from your results is that it's important not to harvest too early, having nothing to do with stress.

 

[Hafta]

I would certainly hope that a fully mature plant would test higher than a less mature plant. I know that another member here had hers tested in a similar way (not stressed, just later in flower) and found the same thing as you did.

Here is what she found:

My take from your results is that it's important not to harvest too early, having nothing to do with stress.

Interesting thought.
This particular grow was to find the difference between an early harvest of a pure Sativa and a late one. Droughting was not part of the original plan.

Phase One was harvested at nine weeks of flower.

Phase Two was harvested at twelve weeks of flower.

Phase Three (droughted) was harvested at fifteen weeks of flower.

I performed the THC test on Phase Two and Phase Three. I will now test Phase One to see if there is a corresponding drop in THC.

 

[InTheShed]

Interesting thought.
This particular grow was to find the difference between an early harvest of a pure Sativa and a late one. Droughting was not part of the original plan.
Phase One was harvested at nine weeks of flower.
Phase Two was harvested at twelve weeks of flower.
Phase Three (droughted) was harvested at fifteen weeks of flower.
I performed the THC test on Phase Two and Phase Three. I will now test Phase One to see if there is a corresponding drop in THC.

Beautiful pics Hafta! Since you can test them yourself why not run the same test on an unstressed plant at the same # of weeks to at least give yourself something to compare these results to.

If an unstressed plant doesn't show that increase in THC then why don't we harvest at 9 weeks rather than 15?

 

[KeithLemon]

Interesting thought.
This particular grow was to find the difference between an early harvest of a pure Sativa and a late one. Droughting was not part of the original plan.

Phase One was harvested at nine weeks of flower.

Phase Two was harvested at twelve weeks of flower.

Phase Three (droughted) was harvested at fifteen weeks of flower.

I performed the THC test on Phase Two and Phase Three. I will now test Phase One to see if there is a corresponding drop in THC.

Looks like a candy cane. Real nice

 

[Hafta]

If an unstressed plant doesn't show that increase in THC then why don't we harvest at 9 weeks rather than 15?

I'm not sure I understand the question. Please clarify.

The seed bank estimates a 10 - 11 week flower cycle so I decided to try nine and twelve to compare the effects. All three are excellent.

The nine week was to attempt nearly all cloudy trichomes (indicating maximum THC production) with very few amber (indicating diminishing THC and conversion to CBD and CBN). Excellent for focus and energy.

The twelve week was to attempt a more conventional 5 - 10 % amber. Comes on more slowly but lasts longer.

As I mentioned, droughting was an add on (getting to the fifteen week flower cycle). A more intense and longer lasting high. Quite different from the other two.

If I was to grow this strain again, and drought it, I would time the drought to end near the twelve week cycle.

Beautiful pics Hafta! Since you can test them yourself why not run the same test on an unstressed plant at the same # of weeks to at least give yourself something to compare these results to.

I grow in a 2 x 3 cabinet and don't have space for more than one plant or one that is not height limited by training.
My next two or three grows are already booked.
I already have personal experience verifying the improvements in yield and potency obtained by stressing the plant.
I also would have a difficult time not "sculpting" the plant.