Experiment in topping

[IKilledIt]

Cal/Mag at every feeding. LED's seem to drive the plant to require more calcium and magnesium than if I was growing under an HID light. Don't know why but it's just an observation that I have come to after a few grows.

My tapwater ranges from 20 - 80 ppm. I have an RO unit under my kitchen sink but the PPM is so low out of the tap I figure it's better to give them the tap water as it already contains some of the minerals it will need like calcium and magnesium. Our water dept doesn't overdo it on the chloramines so I can usually feed straight from the tap without having to "gas" the water beforehand to evaporate whatever chlorine the muni used to clean the water.

I don't bother measuring anymore because I can eyeball it pretty good along with using my PPM/EC meter. Cal/Mag, and Mono Silicic Acid if I'm using it at the time, go in first. Clone/Seed to veg I add a little Hormex and Voodoo Juice to get root development going but I don't really use much as far as amendments. I don't use bloom boosters or anything like that. Base and Cal/Mag for the most.

Simplicity is what I’m trying to achieve. I never used Booster before. I did a grow of 4 Double Purple Doja and failed miserably. I used some Hawaiian bud and bloom and completely fried them to the point of no return. So at 5 or 6 weeks of flower all the leaves were fried. I’m doing the Advanced booster this round and honestly I see no difference. But only time will tell. I just follow the charts and hope I can diagnose issue’s correctly when I notice them.

 

[Trump]

@Trump I did do a partial flush last water to get rid of excess salts. But the other reason was even after I watered and I watered slowly. I still felt dry soil around the edges of my pots. I just wanted to make sure all the soil was good and wet. I let the pots sit and fully drain. Then I made my normal feed with Cal/Mag and feed them 2 liters each. Ended with about 20% run off. The reason I raised the P&K was because I was seeing a slight phosphorous deficiency. Some of the larger fan leaves and smaller leaves were taking on a purple hue almost metallic. Mostly on older leaves. Thanx for all the information

Please don't do that again.

I hate it when people "Flush" their media. I know you said you did a partial flush so you should be ok. If you were worried about stunting them flushing is the worst thing you can do. As long as you aren't toxing the plants and allowing enough runoff you should be fine throughout the grow in regard to excess salt buildup. No need to flush your media. Flushing should only be done in extreme circumstances. In my setup I don't even really run them off as whatever runoff that collects in the tub gets sucked back up into the plant. I don't remove it after watering. You've seen the results of those practices. What I do do is taper my nutrient. Towards the end of the grow, like 2 -3 weeks before harvest, I'll start to lower the PPM's I give them. Usually around 100 - 200 ppm a week. BTW flushing for flavor or smoothness is broscience.

I use the light pot method when it comes to watering. When the leaves just start to droop I pick up the pot and see how light it is. This is my indicator as to when to water. If you notice in my journal there are no yellow sticky traps anywhere. That's because I don't overwater giving the gnat eggs in the soil an environment to proliferate in. Watering is a one of the most important skills in gardening that you need to master. Over and underwatering are the two biggest issues when it comes to plant performance. Too much water and you drown your roots and reduce the available O² in the media that the roots need to perform. Understand that O² in the media is one of the most important factors in regards to accelerated plant growth. The more O² you have in the media the more explosive growth you'll have.

 

[IKilledIt]

Please don't do that again.

I hate it when people "Flush" their media. I know you said you did a partial flush so you should be ok. If you were worried about stunting them flushing is the worst thing you can do. As long as you aren't toxing the plants and allowing enough runoff you should be fine throughout the grow in regard to excess salt buildup. No need to flush your media. Flushing should only be done in extreme circumstances. In my setup I don't even really run them off as whatever runoff that collects in the tub gets sucked back up into the plant. I don't remove it after watering. You've seen the results of those practices. What I do do is taper my nutrient. Towards the end of the grow, like 2 -3 weeks before harvest, I'll start to lower the PPM's I give them. Usually around 100 - 200 ppm a week. BTW flushing for flavor or smoothness is broscience.

I use the light pot method when it comes to watering. When the leaves just start to droop I pick up the pot and see how light it is. This is my indicator as to when to water. If you notice in my journal there are no yellow sticky traps anywhere. That's because I don't overwater giving the gnat eggs in the soil an environment to proliferate in. Watering is a one of the most important skills in gardening that you need to master. Over and underwatering are the two biggest issues when it comes to plant performance. Too much water and you drown your roots and reduce the available O² in the media that the roots need to perform. Understand that O² in the media is one of the most important factors in regards to accelerated plant growth. The more O² you have in the media the more explosive growth you'll have.

I only flushed a gallon’s worth through the soil. Nothing to dramatic. Just seemed like as I watered it drained rapidly near the center of the plant. And I was getting instant run off. Almost like pouring water through a screen. But I also have self watering pots and they do the same. And as for gnats or other insects I don’t have that issue. Nor do I want it. I also lift my plants for weight. When freshly watered they weigh maybe 25 lbs but dry they seem weightless. I try to be cautious with everything I do or attempt.

 

[SmokingWings]

only flushed a gallon’s worth through the soil.

A real flush would involve a lot more water than that. An accepted stand-by is that the amount of water is 3 times what the amount of soil or grow medium is. If it is a 3 gallon pot of medium then the amount of water would be 9 gallons.

Nothing to dramatic. Just seemed like as I watered it drained rapidly near the center of the plant. And I was getting instant run off. Almost like pouring water through a screen.

This sounds like the soil or medium is hydrophobic meaning that the water is being repelled by the soil. Type hydrophobic into your google or favorite search engine to get a meaning that is a bit more in depth.

The most common cause of hydrophobic soil is that the soil was not getting enough water earlier and it dried out too much. The fix for this is an easy one. Water with a small amount and do not worry if nothing runs out the drain holes. Wait 15 minutes or more to let the first bit of water start to break the surface tension on the soil. Then give it another dose of water, wait and do it again. The whole process might take an hour or two but eventually the soil is saturated and normal runoff is taking place.

But the other reason was even after I watered and I watered slowly. I still felt dry soil around the edges of my pots. I just wanted to make sure all the soil was good and wet.

I think that most gardeners who grow any kind of potted plant tend to naturally direct the water stream from the watering container or hose towards the center. Most likely we do this to avoid having some of the water flow over the edge of the pot.

One thing I do and this might help you is to use a tablespoon or soup spoon from the kitchen like it is a small shovel or hand-trowel and move the soil from around the edge towards the center. Let it mound up there and you are creating a moat around the edge. Use just a small amount of water on the mound to avoid causing it to flow towards the edge. Pour a larger amount around the edge and it will fill the moat and if all goes well it will create a nice moist soil throughout the whole container.

Every couple of weeks the moat will have to be rebuilt but it only takes a minute. Most likely you will only be creating a moat that is 1/2 inch to an inch deep so do not worry about killing a few surface root tips.

 

[IKilledIt]

A real flush would involve a lot more water than that. An accepted stand-by is that the amount of water is 3 times what the amount of soil or grow medium is. If it is a 3 gallon pot of medium then the amount of water would be 9 gallons.


This sounds like the soil or medium is hydrophobic meaning that the water is being repelled by the soil. Type hydrophobic into your google or favorite search engine to get a meaning that is a bit more in depth.

The most common cause of hydrophobic soil is that the soil was not getting enough water earlier and it dried out too much. The fix for this is an easy one. Water with a small amount and do not worry if nothing runs out the drain holes. Wait 15 minutes or more to let the first bit of water start to break the surface tension on the soil. Then give it another dose of water, wait and do it again. The whole process might take an hour or two but eventually the soil is saturated and normal runoff is taking place.


I think that most gardeners who grow any kind of potted plant tend to naturally direct the water stream from the watering container or hose towards the center. Most likely we do this to avoid having some of the water flow over the edge of the pot.

One thing I do and this might help you is to use a tablespoon or soup spoon from the kitchen like it is a small shovel or hand-trowel and move the soil from around the edge towards the center. Let it mound up there and you are creating a moat around the edge. Use just a small amount of water on the mound to avoid causing it to flow towards the edge. Pour a larger amount around the edge and it will fill the moat and if all goes well it will create a nice moist soil throughout the whole container.

Every couple of weeks the moat will have to be rebuilt but it only takes a minute. Most likely you will only be creating a moat that is 1/2 inch to an inch deep so do not worry about killing a few surface root tips.

Thanx for the advice. I may have used the wrong terminology. So when I watered the last time. The water just sucked right down through the middle of the plant. Like a drain for instance. Too much perlite maybe? But today I water feed exactly as you mentioned above. 2 liters poured around the stem. Not directly on it. Did the same to all the plants. Then checked the run off which was minimal. Maybe a 1/4 “ in the reservoir Waited maybe 30 minutes. Came back and mounded around the center. Then water feed again. Let that set and had a 20% run off. Soil seemed completely irrigated. No dry areas. Just wanted to make sure the soil was good and saturated not muddy. So all went well. I did look up hydrophobic and that’s not what was happening. So I learned something today lol.

 

[Trump]

When I hand water I use a large plastic cup, around a 1/2 liter, and water around the plant main stem. The stream of water lands in the center between the pot edge and the main stem. After emptying the cup I wait a few minutes to let it soak into the media. This gives the media a chance to soak up whatever water it needs to revert it from being hydrophobic. After that I continue using my liter cup but now I don't have to wait quite as long as the water will abosrb into the media. Capillary action should spread it throughout the media. One way of knowing you're watering to fast is that water will come out the sides of the cloth pot if that is what you are using or.....it runs down the bottom of the pot like what is happening to you. @SmokingWings is correct. Your soil is probably hydrophobic as it dried out too much hence why your water is passing through the media without getting absorbed.

I setup a DIY auto irrigate system that waters when I'm away. It uses a plastic plate to spread out the water so that it covers the entire media. The plates are from a company called FloraFlex and the system name is Matrix. Check it out.

Floraflex Matrix System

Floraflex Matrix System

floraflex.com

I sent you a primer on watering among other things in your PM.

 

[IKilledIt]

@Trump Thanx you for the message. Great read and very informative. I completely misunderstood what hydrophobic was but now have a greater understanding.

 

[Sativa1970]

There is no one correct answer to any question with dozzens of grow styles,rooms and hundreds of cultivars. That's why journals are so usefull. Get answers that fit your grow.

I veg blue dream to 18 inches, top, then veg to 2foot before the flip. End up with a 4x4 wide 6foot tall plant with dozens of colas. The reason 5th node is so popular is shorter grow time that it fits in smaller tent sizes.

 

[gremlinn]

@Trump I did do a partial flush last water to get rid of excess salts. But the other reason was even after I watered and I watered slowly. I still felt dry soil around the edges of my pots. I just wanted to make sure all the soil was good and wet. I let the pots sit and fully drain. Then I made my normal feed with Cal/Mag and feed them 2 liters each. Ended with about 20% run off. The reason I raised the P&K was because I was seeing a slight phosphorous deficiency. Some of the larger fan leaves and smaller leaves were taking on a purple hue almost metallic. Mostly on older leaves. Thanx for all the information

Wat size pot two liters each damn u growing in coco?

 

[IKilledIt]

Wat size pot two liters each damn u growing in coco?

I’m using 5 gallon pots and soil.