FirstGrow - Miss Northern Lights

[VtecHoe]

Morning G,

Got some pics for you, Autoflower'ing kush's are 3 days old now, one seems to be stretching a bit but other than that they are slowly progressing...

So you can top it quite a few times to keep the height down? I can see myself doing it 2-3 before flowering cause she is quite big in my cupboard

And i have checked your journal i found it a few days ago, I like

Pics for ya:

^ Baby Kush lol

^ No head

 

[ggrant]

Hey Lucky,

The like the auto Kushes. They're so cute when they're babies!

I think I might have one of these seeds lying around. Curious to see how they turn out.

I couldn't figure out what you meant by no head until I looked over your earlier photos. Looking forward to see the new shoots.

By the way, she's a little over 5 weeks old, is that right? Have you given any idea of when you going to put her into flower?

 

[VtecHoe]

Hey buddy!

Im going to flower her once i get another red cfl as i let my buddy borrow mine for his blue cfl ahhh, Also picked up a 4 way adapter for 4, 40w cfl's... Post has stopped until after the 01/01/2012 so she wont be getting flowered for a few more weeks, I wanted to do her now but as i said i dont have the right bulb or bulbs to do this - Might give her the full 8 weeks but then she might over grow the space lol

Yeah i wanted to try the auto's and see what they are like, You should do one to

Hopfully see some new growth next week, will be sure to put some pics up

V

 

[ggrant]

Yo V-man,

You don't have to wait for the red bulbs to put her into flower. I use HID lights and I kept my MH (blue spectrum) light on for the first five weeks of flowering! I liked the results so much, I was tempted to use it for the entire flowering cycle. Some of the commenters on my blog urged me to switch to HPS (red spectrum) which I did.

So believe me, you can switch to flowering any time you want. The main thing that triggers flowering is the amount of continual darkness. At least 12 hours is needed. Just make sure that your flowering space is really dark when the lights are off.

You can toss the autoflowers in with them or grow them separately. Since they're so small, I would grow them separately.

Another reason to put her into flower sooner rather than later is that the plant will grow more slowly. Expect anywhere from 25% - 35% more height after flowering starts. If height becomes an issue, you can tie down the taller branches.

P.S. I left my last grow in vegetation for 8 weeks (not intentionally - long story) and the plants were completely unwieldy. I had to tie down quite a few shoots. The main colas were too hard to handle and ended up almost touching the HPS bulb. I got a nice yield, but lost a lot due to heat damage. The top colas were fried - just turned to dust when I touched them.

 

[VtecHoe]

Wow i thought you MUST run a red cfl for the flowering to take place, Obviously well and truly mis-informed lol, I think ill start flowering her next week then once the new growth has started to progress nicely

Ive been checking on auto's and quite a few say they will continue growing under 12/12 i however am quite sceptical due to how small they are and it might be a waste as they might not get the sufficent lighting as you said

So do you think i could do my entire veg/flowering with just blue spectrum cfl's? if so then i wouldnt waste my time investing in red's

Thanks for tagging along for the journey

 

[vannelle]

Dont invest in red if you got something to invest .......why not a nice 250 w hps?......i know that they are widely available in the uk.....and you will have more yield....nice internodial(i invented a new word for u) buildup on your little baby.

 

[ggrant]

Vannelle said:

Dont invest in red if you got something to invest .......why not a nice 250 w hps?

I second that emotion. HID lamps are so much better that fluorescents (sorry fluor lovers, I don't believe in fluor power, and I have the fluor now.) They're also more energy efficient (although not by much) than fluors.

It would be a good investment. Regarding using blue spectrum for the entire flowering period? I don't know. I was going to try it as an experiment, but my legions of loyal followers dissuaded me, both of them.

To spare you the tedium of searching through my blog, let me show you a couple of pictures from the end of the fifth week of flowering using the MH (blue spectrum) light.

Rosebud

Frosty

Trichome Closeup

 

[VtecHoe]

They look amazing for being under a blue spectrum :|... My budget isnt very big just now recently lost my job and there is about as much work over here as there is on the moon...

Think ill try run a blue and a red see how that goes, stay tuned

 

[ggrant]

Hey V-man,

I forgot you had the red also. I understand about money being tight. I'm not working now either.

Absolutely go with both. That is actually preferable to just the red!

If you'd been reading my blog (there's a pop quiz coming up!), you would have seen this chart I posted:


-------------------------Good-----------Better---------------------Best

Growing ----------------------------------MH----------------------- MH, HPS

Flowering-----------------MH-------------HPS-----------------------MH, HPS


MH = blue spectrum
HPS - red spectrum

In other words, these critters like dining at both ends of the spectrum, but if they had their druthers and could pick only one, they would hands down choose blue for vegetation and red for flowering.

I read somewhere that the red end of the specturm stimulates certain plant hormones (don't ask me which ones - do I look like a plant biologist?).

I'm pretty sure things would work out fine with just the blue spectrum. After all, these are plants. Are they going to go on strike and refuse to flower if they don't get the right spectrum? They know their Darwin and will do whatever is necessary to survive!

 

[VtecHoe]

Yo G,

Work situation's dont seem to be good any where right now, Are you guys hit bad as well?

Well my buddy still has my red remember, think his 2 are done flowering mid january, I can stretch enough for a red 125w cfl so put that in my reflector and ill use the blue for some side lighting so the under growth/buds get good lighting to, Hopfully this will get some decent results

Didnt see your chart, Im one of them picture people you know like a baby? lol

But i now know due to that, best of both worlds is with both spectrums im on the case

Very true, nature doesnt have 2 spectrums lol

 

[ggrant]

It's me, Vee!

I just want to make sure we're talking apples and apples and not hearing apples and oranges. That's the right expression, isn't it?

You're from England, aren't you? I can tell by your accent. There are two CFL sizes - 25W and 43W. I just want to make sure that the bulbs you can get in Backwards Land (C'mon, who still drives on the left side of the road?) and the rest of the civilized world are the same.

Big Honkin' CFL

Little Honkin' CFL

I bought my first CFL to germinate the seeds of my current grow. I think I mentioned my last grow was 8 weeks in veg. Well, it was also 12 weeks in flower. 20 weeks in total. So I was anxious to start my next crop early.

All I could find at my local hardware megastore were 25W. I bought a pack and was able to germinate my babies.

Here are a couple of pics of the setup:

I did an Internet search and those 43W looked so juicy! Recently my store starting stocking the 43W, and I bought one and used it for my clones. It was bigger than the 25W! It was glorious. Life was good.

When it came time to transplant my clones, I went back to buy another reflecting globe and maybe another big honkin' CFL.Then my years of studying mathematics came to the fore. Bear with me!

The 25W CFL's cost $10,99 for a box of four. The 43W CFL cost $16,99 for one. What that is, in Pounds Sterling (Sterling, really?) or Euro Disney scrip, I can't say.

Back to First Form arithmetic!

4 25W bulbs = 100W for $10,99.
1 43W bulb = 43W for $16,99.

I can do sums in my head and realized that this reminded me of the old cliché: A grandmother asks her little grandson which he would rather have - a nickel or a dime. And the boy says, "I want the nickel!"

The nickel is bigger and is worth 5 pennies. The dime is smaller and is worth 10 pennies. See how that works?

So, 100W for $10,99 or 43W for $16,99.

Which would you pick? Take a few moments to work it out. OK, pencils down!

I came to the same conclusion and figured, why buy these big monsters when their cute little brothers cost relatively less. So I bought a couple of two-way splitters. Not sure if that's the correct term - do I look like I own a hardware store? I'm not from Pakistan! (sorry, that was in bad taste)

I was trying to find a 3-way splitter, but my "Mega"store doesn't carry them. I've seen lots of pictures of 3-way splitters, like the kind you find in the globes people hang over pool (oops, I mean billiards) tables.

And yes, other than wattage, both the big and small CFL's are available in blue spectrum (6500KL) and red spectrum (2700K). You just have to look at the bottom of the box.

So it makes no sense to buy the big CFL's unless you only have only one socket available. Just buy some splitters or go to your Uncle's attic and steal his old billiard lamp.

If you're handy (I am, but laziness trumps handiness!), there are lots of DIY sites that can show you how to build your own valence for next to nothing.

Sorry for the long rant, but someone had to let the truth be known!

 

[VtecHoe]

Morning sir,

Hah, Im from scotland where we spend half our lifes running around after haggis in the hills

As for bulbs, CFL wise anything from 45w to 300w cfl, Your big honking cfl isnt as honking as the 125w cfl i have Basement Lighting Hydroponics - Eco lights and Enviro Lites <-- take a lookey there, where ive got most my stuff to date

Maths is however not my strong point hahaha, And dimes and nickels? Come on grant im use to working with pennies and pounds

I was going to buy one of them 4 way splitters and run 4 low watt cfl's but the people who sell the 4 way splitter + 4 bulbs dont sell the lead to plug into it, This is why ive put this idea on standby, I did however purchase a 125w red cfl for £17, think thats like $10-12?

Soon as it arrives ill get pics, And hey, it isnt our fault we drive on the left side of the road!!!! lol

LOL@the pakistan joke, i liked it, but then again im quite a crude person when it comes to stuff like that, I mean hey, We have 250 thousand illegal immigrants un-accounted for in britain, mostly pakistan or polish, shame they cant open some hardware shops over here, might stop them scamming the system

RANT OVER

 

[ggrant]

Hey Vman,

I'm glad you weren't offended by my post. I was just having a little fun (at your expense). I almost deleted the Palistani remark as it might be interpreted as a racial slur rather that an ethnic strereotype. Year ago (and I mean years ago), I lived in Toronto and virtually EVERY hardware srore in the city was Pakistani owned. And owned by very wealthy Pakistani's. People with lots of money seem to be able to jump the immigation line and I think Canada is easier than most. I think their wealth and promise to open new businesses got them a lot of extra points while the "huddled masses yearning to breathe free" got shoved to the back of the line. <End of Rant>

I looked at the bulbs you were talking about. When you were talking about wattage, I wasn't sure whether you were talking about actual wattage or equivalent wattage. What I mean is

25W fluorescent = 100W incandescent.

And that huge CFL you have made my Huge Honkin' CFL go limp with lumen envy.

I was just trying to offer some low cost alternatives. £17 is about $30, which is still a great deal. I definitely got ripped off paying $16.99 for a crappy 43W bulb! Leave it to a Scotsman to find a good deal. (Sorry, sorry, sorry!)

Scotland, eh? That soft burr in your voice should have given it away. As far as guessing England, at some point you mentioned you lived in the U.K. I thought all Scots were like Andy Murray, who insists he is from Scotland, and is not English.

By the way, I am a big fan of your "Craig Fergusen." Every I know about Scotland, I've learned from his show. Maybe that's not a good thing. He has defected to a real country and now lives in southern California.

How's Miss NL doing? Post a picture when you can. Have the new shoots sprouted yet?

As far as the autoflowers. I wouldn't put them in a flowering room with Miss NL. Autoflowers are happy with any light schedule: 12/12, 18/6, 24/0. They're little sluts and will sex up under any lighting conditions. A lots of growers use 24/0 - the idea being more light, more product. Personally, if I were growing them, I would use at least 18/6, maybe 24/0. They will mature fine under 12/12, but they will not grow as fast as they would with more light. You might want to check out some of the autoflowering journals to see what those growers do.

 

[anthonyjohn]

I like your dime and nickel comparison, but it's not the same. Lumens are what you're looking to get from those watts. Lumens don't add up like most people think. So your 43w produces.. 2500 lumens? well if you get two of those, it's still 2500 lumens, but from 2 different angles. If you were to get 1 100w, it is 4000? lumens from 1 angle. Whatever the higher number of lumens equals, get that. blue spectrum.

 

[ggrant]

anthonyjons said:

So your 43w produces.. 2500 lumens? well if you get two of those, it's still 2500 lumens, but from 2 different angles.

2500 + 2500 = 2500 ????

Dude, did you take New Math in school. This is NOT vector calculus!

Different angles doesn't mean anything. If you think it does, imagine a small sunlamp that you can sit under for an hour that will give you a mild sunburn. Now put two of these (better yet, try twenty since from your logic, you're still getting the same number of lumens) together and sit under it for an hour. With two lamps, you'd have a bad sunburn. With twenty lamps, you'd look worse than a hamburger left on the barby for a couple of hours!

If you don't believe that argument, try it for real. Take a two-way socket and put one bulb in it. Hold it close to your face and look at the light. Now, put in a second bulb of the same wattage and do the same thing. Does the light look brighter? Of course it does! Why, because there are more lumens shining on your face.

The lumen (symbol: lm) is the SI derived unit of luminous flux, a measure of the total "amount" of visible light emitted by a source.

So, unless the second bulb is in another room or is pointed completely away from you, there will always be more lumens emitted from two same-size bulbs than from one.

Sorry to be so harsh, but you just don't know what you're talking about.

 

[VtecHoe]

Evening G,

I got some pictures for you, starting to see some new growth appearing , Kush's are still stretching a bit need this red cfl to arrive asap so i can move the blue closer to them

Yes if you ever want a good deal come see me, Im a robbing bastard... sorry lol, im not really... ok back in my corner

Cant really say scotland is much of a country, what do i see when i look out my window... a mountain, the ocean, a lighthouse... going well so far hah

Pulled off some dead fans near the bottom of the plant to, they had shriveled up and gone a light green colour

Picture time:

^ Take over my cupboard more please

^ Stretching a bit to much lol

 

[ggrant]

Miss NL looks great, VMan! You're doing a great job with her.

I'm looking for the new shoots. A little hard to tell from your pics. In the first pic, it looks like the shoots are about 3" long. If that's so, WOW! It's a good idea to cut off some of the lower fan leaves when they turn yellow. They don't really do much good any longer.

How much height do you have in your grow room? Are you going to veg a little longer?

The little Kushes are looking cute! Are they a little bit spindly? That happens to young seedlings until their stems toughen up. Make sure that they have some support. I use a small stake (a chopstick would be perfect), stick it in the soil near the plant and use a twist tie with a very loose loop (you don't want to pinch the stem.) I use Scots tape (I'm sure you have plenty of it - after all, you guys invented it.) to keep the loop in place. In other words, the stick and twist tie form a small loop like a basketball hoop and the stem goes through it.

What you should do is place one of the lamps fairly close to the babies (about six inches should be good) for at least a few hours a day. The intense light should help the stems develop faster. When I started my current crop, I used a single 25W CFL. The critters were kinda spindly until I put them under the HID lamp for a couple of days. (12 hours a day, then back to the CFL) It's amazing how fast they will grow and toughen up when the light is intense enough.

 

[VtecHoe]

Morning G,

Im just awake literally 5 seconds, Checking on the babies, Height wise i have about another 5 inches before it will be merging into the light lol... It is still on books + some dvds, Im going to veg it till this red cfl arrives so i can make sure the bottom + sides of NL get sufficent lighting

Thanks for the advice on how to support the kush's, Going to get something sorted today, Is to much stretch bad on the babies? or will they be alright do ya think?

Also, not sure if you can tell by the photos but could i top NL again or is it not a wise idea? She doesnt seem to want to stop growing upwards lol

Morning Pictures UHHHHH:

 

[VtecHoe]

 

[ggrant]

Hey Vman,

Have you washed your hands lately? Because your thumb is turning green!

You can certainly top Miss NL again. If you think height is going to become an issue (remember factor in about 30% more height during flowering), then I would certainly top her again. If not, let her be. I think most growers who have the space top their plant just once. This will give you four colas rather than one.

If height looks like it is going to be a problem, then definitely top her again. In this case, you would top each of the shoots the same way you did the original topping. Top just above the second set of fan leaves.

This thing is so bushy, it's hard to tell where the other two colas are. They should be offset by 90% from from the top colas. If they are getting too tall, you can top them, too.

Regardless of what you decide to do, please cut off some of those MONSTER fan leaves on top. They are blocking the light from reaching the lower buds. When this thing is ready for harvest, you will have four colas (more if you do the additional topping as discussed above). There will be smaller shoots lower down on each cola. These shoots will have primo buds as long as they get enough light! The amount of smoke you get from these buds can equal or exceed the amount you get from the colas and they are hella pretty to look at!

Here's what I mean:

Cut Me

Cut Me, Too !

If you're squeamish about doing this, you don't have to do it all at once. Say a few leaves each day. Do it a few hours after you water her. Ideally, you would do this on a fert watering, but that is not critical.

You make think you're hurting the plant or stunting its growth. Au contraire, mon frere! After you cut the leaves off, she will go into a flurry of regrowth to compensate for the loss. Also, all the little undeveloped shoots at the base of each fan leaf that you cut off will start to grow. This will create lots of bud sites.

If you have the room height, I wouldn't top it anymore - not for any practical reason, just that it's a good way to see how these plants grow and develop. But, by all means, if you're afraid she will be too tall, do the extra topping.


Finally, about those babies. I invented the loop the loop on my third grow because the seedlings were thin and limp like alfalfa sprouts. My previous grow wasn't finished so I used a lower power bulb (one 25W CFL) to germinate and grow the seedlings. They were totally fragile until almost the two week mark. Once I got them under some strong light, the stalks toughened up and they were fine. If you look closely at new seedlings, you'll see that the stems are green. As they get older, they will turn brown. Basically, they are turning into wood. Until they do this, they are very fragile, so be gentle handling them.

I'm not sure if my explanation of the loop was very clear, so I just made one (took me 60 seconds!) to show you. I used a plastic knife because that was handy (I actually used these same plastic knives for the seedlings I just told you about as I didn't have any else suitable.) Obviously, anything that you can stick in the soil would be fine. Just don't put it in the the soil too close to the seedling as you don't want to inadvertantly cut some of the roots.

Boy, I just go on and on, don't I!

Here's the pictures.