From Seed to Smoke - RQS Critical & OG Kush - LED - DWC Scrog

[mrrobert420]

Nice! I got 4-5 5gal buckets with tap water (5-20ppm) at any given time waiting to be used. I only buy RO water for drinking and for cloning/seed germination. I dont use much for that, so i just take some from the RO water jug i have in my fridge (Which i buy from Thrifty Foods downstairs)

I contemplated buying an RO unit for my grow, but our local drinking water supply is so good, i have no use for it!

lucky!!! my PPM with no RO here in socal is 300ppm - eeeeewwwww and yuck - but i bet it has some good cal mag - unfortunatly we use a water softner also so I have to take my water from the spigot prior to the water tx in the garage lol

 

[Greenthumb J]

300PPM?? damn that sounds like the nasty shit i was drinking when i was in Las Vegas.. i actually wanted to vomit when i brushed my teeth the water tasted so shitty!!! LOL brushing my teeth with good tasting toothpaste and i still wanted to vomit from the taste of the water hahah

 

[mrrobert420]

thats california for you - cancer in the water lol

 

[Greenthumb J]

you should take a trip up north, and come try some delicious water!! lol

 

[CookieMonsta]

Stealthgrow - great posts on sustainable grown medicine.

Im moving into the LED grow arena, away for inefficient HPS. Im about to change out a few HPS and run KIND LED lights in an already setup room. Do you have any tips as far as grow styles go? My room is 6x1000watt HPS, small to medium sized, so I have decent experience thus far. Did you convert from HPS or start off with LED?

Any info and help in producing more sustainable, clean medication is great!
Thank you

 

[mrrobert420]

Stealthgrow - great posts on sustainable grown medicine.

Im moving into the LED grow arena, away for inefficient HPS. Im about to change out a few HPS and run KIND LED lights in an already setup room. Do you have any tips as far as grow styles go? My room is 6x1000watt HPS, small to medium sized, so I have decent experience thus far. Did you convert from HPS or start off with LED?

Any info and help in producing more sustainable, clean medication is great!
Thank you

funny i kinda asked the same question for different reason lol

 

[Greenthumb J]

Stealthgrow - great posts on sustainable grown medicine.

Im moving into the LED grow arena, away for inefficient HPS. Im about to change out a few HPS and run KIND LED lights in an already setup room. Do you have any tips as far as grow styles go? My room is 6x1000watt HPS, small to medium sized, so I have decent experience thus far. Did you convert from HPS or start off with LED?

Any info and help in producing more sustainable, clean medication is great!
Thank you

While i respect your experience, please explain to me how HPS is inefficient?

In order to match the same yield you would get with those 6000w of HPS, you are going to need at least 12,000 LED watts..

that will run you an insane amount of money just to buy the panels, and it will still draw the same amount of power as your HPS, so there wont be any electrical savings. The only difference is, you wont need to run air cooled hoods, so you wont need to run as many inline fans but you will still need to run an AC as those LED's will blow some hot air into your grow room.

I have a feeling, Stealth would love a higher powered LED in his closets!! Take a look at what MrRobert did to his SuperCloset, he removed the KIND LED and added a 600w HPS to it instead. His yields are probably going to triple now!

My point being, while LEDs are a great emerging technology in the field of growing, they are no where near as efficient as traditional HID lighting. MH and HPS grow bigger plants, that produce more, hands down. One day, LED's will match or outperform HID lighting, and thats the day i will make the switch. But right now it really seems like a bunch of fanboys raving over the newest gear, then justifying their purchases with whatever excuse they can for having small yields.

Not saying LED's dont work, they do, but like i stated above, and like many LED growers find out, you need ALOT of LED watts to get a substantial harvest per plant, per light. Thats why you see so many people growing LEDs using 2000 LED watts and more. because they need more penetration, and more light coverage to get big yields.

I'm actually aching for the day that a 600w LED can actually match a 600w HPS. but you gotta remember that the power drawn from the wall, is the most amount of power that you are actually going to put out on your plants.. high wattage diodes and reflector lenses on these new panels dont work as efficient as a 600w bulb pumping out 600+w of HID lighting for your plants.

But i digress, this is stealths grow, and he loves his closet i know he does. Hell, i love my short grow box too, but its HID. I've used an LED myself, and what i've told you is just what i've experienced as well as many other growers experience. I urge you to do lots or research before you take the plunge and buy an LED panel.

If you would like to discuss the reasons why i think you should stay with an HID setup, i would love to feel free to send me a message to one of my journals (not sure if stealth wants to join the conversation or make his LED points and let us have our talk elsewhere)

About more sustainable and clean medication.. you can achieve these results using HID!! its all about growing methods, i swear!

Sorry Stealth!!

 

[Greenthumb J]

funny i kinda asked the same question for different reason lol

i know why you asked.. cause you wanted an HPS in your box!!! and you got it.. and damn it looks nice!! plants are loving it too!!

I kinda answered your inquiry also with my reply.. i would love to hear what Stealth has to say on his LED..

 

[mrrobert420]

Oh man i KNEW Greenthumb was gonna jump all over that one

I got the same talking too a month ago - saved me from making a pretty huge mistake.........

I almost blew 2000.00 on LED panels................. and probly would have gotten more heat than i am now.... my temps went DOWN with adding a cool tube and triple the wattage - Never would have believed it - I though Hunter was crazy when he first told me this.......

sorry if were jacking your thread stealth lol....... please slap us if necessary lol.......

 

[CookieMonsta]

Hey Greenthumb J,

Thanks for your input regarding LED vs HPS. This is obviously an ongoing debate and a topic of contention between manufacturers claims and growers experiences. Just quick so Stealths blog isnt interrupted. My HPS run efficiently if you take yields into consideration. From the 6000watts (100square feet of canopy), yields range from 8 to 12+ labels. Most commonly between 9 and 10 labels. Its a profitable business. Im trying to reduce my footprint on the planet, not increase my yield. HPS is a technology of the past. LED may be the future. Id like to experiment and see whether or not some of these claims and case studies (average to good yields using LED technology) are realistic. I have been looking into the KIND LED K5 XL1000 as a substitute. If I have misunderstood the technology or energy usage of LEDs I would love to be further informed.

Thanks for conversing

 

[Greenthumb J]

Hey, you're taking the right approach to it.. HID may be what people think are a thing of the past, but theres a reason they grow the biggest buds on the planet!

It really depends on how you grow, i think. Personally, i keep plant count low, and utilize all the growing space i have. I grow single, 1lb plants in a 4x4 space. I have an 8x8 tent which has 4 flowering stations Each plant gets its own 600w HPS.

For me, i would need about 1200w of LED watts over each plant to maintain the same yields i need to supply my patients and myself, probably some T5 lights on the side for supplemental light too. A MARS II 1200w Panel would cost me almost 700, including taxes, shipping and currency exchange (My US grower buddy picked one up for $400 with free shipping, but thats still pricey) For that price i could get it for, i could buy 3x 600w HID packages with ballast, CoolTube, timer, MH and HPS bulbs and a Yo-Yo for $200 each package.

that 1200w of LED watts will still pull the same as the 600w HID too, so the argument that people save money on their electrical bill is kinda silly.

What i would recommend, is set aside a test grow area, get an LED panel, and grow a mini sized grow in your normal manner. If you think the results are better than your HPS grows, then go for the LED.

Just take what you read about LEDs with a huge grain of salt. remember that many growers who made the switch to LED's are simply justifying their loss in yields by saying things like "Oh my room temps are lower now." Theres no better way to figure it out than to try it out yourself. I wouldnt mind trying a high powered LED panel of 1000w or more, but the cost is just so high, that i dont see it as a very good return of investment!

 

[mrrobert420]

And just to add. I get more heat in my supercloset from a 240w kind led panel as opposed to my 600 watt cool tube that's even under powered with 4 inch fans. I feel kinda silly I got tricked into believing the LED would produce "less" heat. This is only true if your not venting your hood. Just from my experience.

Both reasons I went with led I found to be false. Heat savings and electricity Savings.

All I got was more heat and less bud :/ due to lower actual power draw plus more room in my wallet ......

 

[stealthgrow]

God damn, I wrote out a whole long answer and erased it accidentally---lets try this again

 

[stealthgrow]

Alright, the long and short of is this....
@cookieMonstr---I've never grown with anything other than LED, so I'm not the best person for advise. Although since your running a 6000Watt room I don't think your a newb either CookieMonstr. The reason I chose LED lights over HPS was mainly due to space, and climate control conditions. I can say with some confidence that HPS produces larger cola's and bigger yields, but LED seems to produce more trichomes, and the buds also seem more dense in my opinion. The White Widow I grew out a few harvests back were like little rocks, the buds were so dense & it was great smoke. All the medicine/good stuff is in the gladular heads in the trichomes of the plant. The whole reason to grow is for the trichomes so If a specific light is going to maximize trichome production then that's what I want.
Just day dreaming here but.....If I had the available space, and money, I would probably try a combination of both light types in a 8x8 or 10x10 tent like mrrobert has or maybe a full room like you have Cookie. I would stagger the lights, 1 HPS and 1 LED panel, 2nd HPS, then 2nd LED. I'm sure the plants would get the benefits of both worlds. Size and bulk from the HPS, and the trichome production and density from the LED spectrum. What's not to love about that? Would make a great experiment.
Food for thought.
Cheers.

 

[mrrobert420]

Great response !! Agreed.

 

[Greenthumb J]

Alright, the long and short of is this....
@cookieMonstr---I've never grown with anything other than LED, so I'm not the best person for advise. Although since your running a 6000Watt room I don't think your a newb either CookieMonstr. The reason I chose LED lights over HPS was mainly due to space, and climate control conditions. I can say with some confidence that HPS produces larger cola's and bigger yields, but LED seems to produce more trichomes, and the buds also seem more dense in my opinion. The White Widow I grew out a few harvests back were like little rocks, the buds were so dense & it was great smoke. All the medicine/good stuff is in the gladular heads in the trichomes of the plant. The whole reason to grow is for the trichomes so If a specific light is going to maximize trichome production then that's what I want.
Just day dreaming here but.....If I had the available space, and money, I would probably try a combination of both light types in a 8x8 or 10x10 tent like mrrobert has or maybe a full room like you have Cookie. I would stagger the lights, 1 HPS and 1 LED panel, 2nd HPS, then 2nd LED. I'm sure the plants would get the benefits of both worlds. Size and bulk from the HPS, and the trichome production and density from the LED spectrum. What's not to love about that? Would make a great experiment.
Food for thought.
Cheers.

I currently have my Twilight LED in the flower tent for additional spectrum (and to actually help some plants get some light!! i'm lacking a 600w light in my tent!)

Its a great idea actually, and once i get my 2 new CoolTubes for my flower tent, i actually plan to add in some smaller LED's perhaps 2x 700w panels for that added spectrum. High yields with the HPS, and resinous buds due to the increased spectrum in the LEDs.

Gram for gram tho, HPS is where you wanna be. And if you are using good quality ferts and supplements, you can grow equally resinous and dense buds as LED, just a whole lot more of it!

 

[Dusty Kiefers]

I'm getting 3 to 4 oz per 100w of led. Accual drawpower.

 

[CookieMonsta]

Greenthumb, mrrobert - all great input I will definitely keep in mind. Green - I do love an experiment, should I undertake one I will begin a blog post to keep those interested up to date. There is definitely a reason HPS has the monopoly in growing inside, results speak for themselves. Another technology you all might be interested in is the double ended reflectors. In cycling through old gear I invested in 3 of these babies. There is a noticeable difference in brightness, penetration, coverage and yield. I think the high frequency ballasts required to run these are more efficient as well and have multiple wattage settings (since 1000watts isn't always necessary). They also seem to give off less heat and can be vented, depending on the make/model etc. Stealth and Green its interesting you mention such an experiment, as I am currently in the perfect position (cycling through old gear) to run an HPS alongside an 1000watt LED or, over a 4 x 8 area, run a HPS in the center with lower wattage LED panels on either side.

Thanks again stealth and apologies for invading. I look forward to watching your grows

 

[mrrobert420]

Greenthumb, mrrobert - all great input I will definitely keep in mind. Green - I do love an experiment, should I undertake one I will begin a blog post to keep those interested up to date. There is definitely a reason HPS has the monopoly in growing inside, results speak for themselves. Another technology you all might be interested in is the double ended reflectors. In cycling through old gear I invested in 3 of these babies. There is a noticeable difference in brightness, penetration, coverage and yield. I think the high frequency ballasts required to run these are more efficient as well and have multiple wattage settings (since 1000watts isn't always necessary). They also seem to give off less heat and can be vented, depending on the make/model etc. Stealth and Green its interesting you mention such an experiment, as I am currently in the perfect position (cycling through old gear) to run an HPS alongside an 1000watt LED or, over a 4 x 8 area, run a HPS in the center with lower wattage LED panels on either side.

Thanks again stealth and apologies for invading. I look forward to watching your grows

if you run this test please invite me would love to follow

 

[Greenthumb J]

if you run this test please invite me would love to follow

i also would like to follow along to that!