GDP Leaf Problem - 2 Pics

BeaverIslander said:
I can not capture this in a pic but the serrations on the leaves are kinda tiger striped, green and brown, almost a perfect pattern. Definitely not all green like they were.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a nutrient deficiency/lockout, which can also be a PH problem. It doesn't look like too much 'N'.
The root ball doesn't look fully developed to me. In the picture it appears fairly dry - not like it was just flushed. Does it feel well saturated?
 
Major PITA said:
That sounds like a nutrient deficiency/lockout, which can also be a PH problem. It doesn't look like too much 'N'.
The root ball doesn't look fully developed to me. In the picture it appears fairly dry - not like it was just flushed. Does it feel well saturated?
Click to expand...

The roots and soil were certainly damp but it held together ok when I turned it out. I really don't know if I dare leave them alone for the night or put half strength neuts in. The mom has me very concerned, a lot of time and money involved. If it just needs to dry out I don't want to feed it, if it has neut lockout I about have too. I don't feel good at all about this.
 
I hear you BI. These can be a be-atch to figure out sometimes.
I had some plants in my first grow that looked similar. I'm pretty sure it was PH swings and salt build up. I flushed the crap out of them and it helped a lot. But I hesitate to recommend it to you because I honestly don't know what the problem is. If it was mine, I would flush it well, but ....
Best of luck.
 
I'm tempted to just mix up a gallon and pH it higher 6.5-7, Cal-Mag, and half strength flowering neutes. Does that sound like a safe bet? If improved in the morning I'll know which way to go, if not.... Plan B.

Actually, I have sledgehammer too....
 
Sounds like a plan to me.
I hope some of the heavy-hitters see this and give you their $0.02. I don't feel qualified to diagnose what is going on.
 
Well, I did use sledgehammer and was to to flush with 3 times the size of the pot, just water. Then 1/2 neutes, so that's my plan. It'll take awhile to run 15 gallons through, but I'll check back before I do and nutrients.
 
I'd like to see how this plays out.
 
your problem is a lack of oxygen which could be caused by several things "Soil too heavy/clayey" remedy?: loosen and lighten soil at the root ball (re-transplant) or use hydrogen peroxide in watering. Especially if the soil seems to never dry out completely. or the roots have rot on them such as slimey disallowing the uptake of oxygen. add one or two ounces of 3% hydrogen peroxide to one gallon of water and and water it in. Your plant should be perky by the end of the day or next day. The damaged leafs will never return to perfect but you will notice them to be much better than they were. Happy Growing!
 
brianyoung said:
your problem is a lack of oxygen which could be caused by several things "Soil too heavy/clayey" remedy?: loosen and lighten soil at the root ball (re-transplant) or use hydrogen peroxide in watering. Especially if the soil seems to never dry out completely. or the roots have rot on them such as slimey disallowing the uptake of oxygen. add one or two ounces of 3% hydrogen peroxide to one gallon of water and and water it in. Your plant should be perky by the end of the day or next day. The damaged leafs will never return to perfect but you will notice them to be much better than they were. Happy Growing!
Click to expand...

brian- I hate to, but I have to disagree. Check out the description and picture of his soil and roots. The soil isn't at all heavy and the roots do not look like they've been drowned.
 
don't simply flush it, change out that soil! break up that root ball and put fresh soil in it then use a little hydrogen peroxide to deliver oxygen and kill any bad bacteria.
 
Here's what I did guys, I know I was going to check back in before finishing it for the night but I gotta admit,,,,my wife ad to remind me we were going out to dinner with some other folks so I had to kick it up a notch.
Anyway, just to recap, this morning I had flushed them both wit 15 gallons of plain water (together not each) After checking in here I became more concerned about a lockout so I flushed again with 10ml sledgehammer/gallon times 5 gallons for(both plants). I hten flushed with 14 more gallons of plain water. Then...I put in 5ml CalMag, 10ml Grow Big, 5ml Tiger Bloom, and set the pH (again by eye) to between 6.5 and 7. Earlier I had shot for 6-6.5...maybe I had it too low???

Anyway, thats how they are going to bed for the next 12 hours. I'll check back tomorrow.
Tanks a million for the help, advice and support. I have my fingers crossed.

P.S. That soil in the clone was only about 4 weeks old, probably didn't even need neuts yet.
 
Wow... quite a mess we have here. Have you sprayed anything on these plants, like neem?

The thing that strikes me here is how dramatically both plants have been affected, and that it has not started out with the lower leaves, you are getting a dramatic reaction all over both plants. All of the symptoms appear to be related to indicate a non-mobile nutrient deficiency, and this is usually related to pH. Since it is happening to both plants and you are visually checking your pH (does this mean you are using test strips or drops?) I have to assume that you are mixing up your water and nutes to the wrong pH.

Considering your potting mix presents a problem too. You are using Promix, soil and perlite. This is 1 part natural soil, 2 parts non soil... essentially making your grow a soilless grow, or at least mostly. Promix absolutely does not require calmag to be added, since a big component in its makeup is dolomite lime. It has all the magnesium and calcium your plant is ever going to need already in it... yet your symptoms look just like a magnesium deficiency... a very severe magnesium deficiency.

The promix manufactures suggest using this product as a hydroponic medium, and suggest that the proper pH for working with this stuff is 5.9-6.0. The problem with this is that you also have soil in there, but in a lesser volume than the soilless components, and it has to affect the pH drift too.

All signs point to pH as the problem. I will suggest that you begin to treat this as a hydroponic grow and adjust your pH downward to 6.0 immediately, toward the hydro end of the scale. I would do this right away, even though you have just flushed, because you need to lower the pH of those containers, now... your plants are both dying of malnutrition. I also suggest very strongly that you get a way to accurately measure your pH, it is going to be that important in this grow that you have created. There is really no excuse for inaccuracy in today's world.

Also, I would suggest that you carefully study the foxfarm feeding schedule recommendations. You mentioned Grow Big and Tiger Bloom, but did not mention the primary component of the trio, Big Bloom, even though this is recommended to be given at EVERY stage of the growing cycle to balance out the synthetic nature of the first two nutrients. If you faithfully follow the nutrient schedule that they provide, especially using their soil along with it, you should be able to produce superior gardens, but it is imperative to follow the instructions to the letter.
 
Thank you for weighing in on my problem in such detail Emilya. I will be glad to do some more work, I just got home. However, I am puzzled by the pH issue, as I have been keeping around 6, and just raised it to 6.5 to 7 before I left tonight. Should I just flush again with tap water pH'd to 6? How many gallons do I need to run through the 5 gallon pot, and the 1 gallon pot? I assume no neuts at all tonight? I will start getting things around and check back in a few, hope you are still up and at em :)
And yes, I am using drops to check the pH, getting as close as I can....
 
Emilya said:
Wow... quite a mess we have here. Have you sprayed anything on these plants, like neem?

The thing that strikes me here is how dramatically both plants have been affected, and that it has not started out with the lower leaves, you are getting a dramatic reaction all over both plants. All of the symptoms appear to be related to indicate a non-mobile nutrient deficiency, and this is usually related to pH. Since it is happening to both plants and you are visually checking your pH (does this mean you are using test strips or drops?) I have to assume that you are mixing up your water and nutes to the wrong pH.

Considering your potting mix presents a problem too. You are using Promix, soil and perlite. This is 1 part natural soil, 2 parts non soil... essentially making your grow a soilless grow, or at least mostly. Promix absolutely does not require calmag to be added, since a big component in its makeup is dolomite lime. It has all the magnesium and calcium your plant is ever going to need already in it... yet your symptoms look just like a magnesium deficiency... a very severe magnesium deficiency.

The promix manufactures suggest using this product as a hydroponic medium, and suggest that the proper pH for working with this stuff is 5.9-6.0. The problem with this is that you also have soil in there, but in a lesser volume than the soilless components, and it has to affect the pH drift too.

All signs point to pH as the problem. I will suggest that you begin to treat this as a hydroponic grow and adjust your pH downward to 6.0 immediately, toward the hydro end of the scale. I would do this right away, even though you have just flushed, because you need to lower the pH of those containers, now... your plants are both dying of malnutrition. I also suggest very strongly that you get a way to accurately measure your pH, it is going to be that important in this grow that you have created. There is really no excuse for inaccuracy in today's world.

Also, I would suggest that you carefully study the foxfarm feeding schedule recommendations. You mentioned Grow Big and Tiger Bloom, but did not mention the primary component of the trio, Big Bloom, even though this is recommended to be given at EVERY stage of the growing cycle to balance out the synthetic nature of the first two nutrients. If you faithfully follow the nutrient schedule that they provide, especially using their soil along with it, you should be able to produce superior gardens, but it is imperative to follow the instructions to the letter.
Click to expand...

OK, I just drenched them both in plain water pH 6.0, 3 gallons for the 5 gallon pot, 1 for the 1 gallon pot, if I need to put more through, just say the word. The 5 gallon pot has had close to 30 gallons put through it in a little over 12 hours though! As far as the soil mixture, please keep in mind that this is my first grow, and this ratio was recommended to me so I used it...never had a problem until 3 days ago, and everything else is looking good. When the plants were young one of them had bright yellow leaf outlines (see my first grow) and I was told to add CalMag which almost immediately fixed that problem, I have been using it every since. I have to use water right out of my well so it doesn't go through a water softener and a Tannin conditioner as well. Again, no problems until recently. As far as the F.F. Neutes go, I mispoke myself as I was being dragged out the door for dinner :) It was Big Bloom (15ml) and Tiger Bloom (5ml) and no Grow Big the last couple weeks. I believe the last point you made was testing the pH..... and yes, I am using the drops and comparing it to a chart. Just for the heck of it, I got a second opinion from my wife on the recent 6.0 reading and she agreed, so I am doing what I can with what I have. However, maybe I need to start rethinking that as well.
So, I believe I addressed your concerns and suggestions. If not, please let me know and I'll have another go at it. I have left both plants in a utility sink to drain for the night. If you happen by and think I need to run more water through, just say the word.

Note: I put no CalMag or neuts in this. Should I feed them tomorrow or wait? If they are staving, that doesn't seem quite right to me?????
 
Plants at the wrong pH can be starving, sitting in a sea of nutrients... adding more will not help. Your soil has all the calmag in it already that you could ever want. Adding more can not help.

You have done what you can for now, you have reset the pH of your mix to something that is going to work better. Now sit back and do nothing for several days... let her repair the damage. I think that starting tomorrow you will start to see a gradual improvement in her looks, but dont expect the severely damaged leaves to come back... some are way too far gone already.

get that last component of your foxfarms and read their chart as to how to mix this stuff based on the stage your plants are in. Use it every OTHER time, you don't have to or should "feed" your plants every time. Water - Nutes - water - nutes... or even water - water nutes.... Nutes are vitamins, not food. Plants get most of what they need from the soil.
 
Well, the good news is I do have the Grow Big but I stopped using it the last couple of weeks as I am already past week 12. On a side note, the FF schedule said to feed twice weekly which is what I did, the plants in 5 gallon pots only take 1.5 gallons twice a week, so they were ALWAYS fed when watered, never plain water. Sounds like I should change that too.

I have plenty of FFOF, Perlite, and PromixBX, how do you suggest I mix it from now on?

I need to turn in shortly but first I want to thank you very much for giving me help on this one. I am still pretty nervous about my flowering Grand Daddy Purple but at least I feel like I did everything I could.

Thanks to everyone else who offered guidance as well. Good night!:thumb:
 
BeaverIslander said:
Well, the good news is I do have the Grow Big but I stopped using it the last couple of weeks as I am already past week 12. On a side note, the FF schedule said to feed twice weekly which is what I did, the plants in 5 gallon pots only take 1.5 gallons twice a week, so they were ALWAYS fed when watered, never plain water. Sounds like I should change that too.

I have plenty of FFOF, Perlite, and PromixBX, how do you suggest I mix it from now on?

I need to turn in shortly but first I want to thank you very much for giving me help on this one. I am still pretty nervous about my flowering Grand Daddy Purple but at least I feel like I did everything I could.

Thanks to everyone else who offered guidance as well. Good night!:thumb:
Click to expand...
Twice weekly is assuming you are under 1000w lights and good airflow and that the plants are needing to be watered 3 or 4 times in a week... for the rest of us, that means every other time.

And yes, 1.5 gal in a 5 gallon container twice a week sounds like overdoing it just a bit... better to water completely, saturating the soil and then waiting 4 or 5 days for the plant to use it.

In the future, its an either or situation as far as I see it. I would use 3:1 FFOF/Perlite or all PromixBX, and each grow would be run completely differently. The Soil/Perlite mix would be run at 6.5 pH as a normal soil grow, and the Promix with its own special blend would be treated as a hydroponic grow, at 5.9 pH

Glad to help... just paying forward the help that I got when I was a new grower of weeds. Dont give up on that purp just yet... she still has a ways to go and she is going to make you proud of her.
 
Just to briefly catch you up for the day I have 3 nice plants in 5 gallon pots and today I hauled out the other two (PainKiller XL and a Blue Blood) and ran water through each till I got runoff......they were both just barely on the chart at 4.5!!!!!!

My well water in slightly high so I flushed about 5 gallons through each followed by 4.5 gallons of SledgeHammer through each, then another 6-7 gallons of water, and finally 2 gallons each of plain water pH'd at 6.0 in each. I also took the floating Perlite and clay type balls out, then pout 3-4 inchs of fresh FFOC in each pot.

They are finally back under the lights, I will check on the smaller clones tomorrow, probably have to take care of them too. I checked the runoff (5 gallon pots only) when they were up to a month or so old and the pH was always great so I assumed I didn't need to keep checking..Boy, was I ever wrong about that. Sooo, I have learned a great deal in the last 24 ours...... lessons I definitely will not forget :)

Plus rep to you Emilya.

Thanks to all.
 

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