Help! Autoflower day 21 - Overdosed on calmag, orange spots on lower/middle leaves 2 days later

[kreikrei]

Hi!
I am a beginner grower. I topped the plant on day 20. Maybe thats why its a bit droopy.

Setup:
3x3x6 tent
3 gallon pots, Biobizz light mix+ biobizz nutes
RO water (and biobizz calmag)
Environment - 22-25celsius and 55% humidity, lights on 24/0. Ppfd/DLI in normal range for this stage. Also have a decent osciallting fan and 2 small pc fans.

Problem:
During my first big watering (day 19 and 2-2.5 liters of water for 3 gallon pot) I accidentally gave about 250ppm of CALMAG
Why? Because I didnt know PPM meter doesnt measure organic calmag correctly.
I thought I put in 50 ppm (RO + calmag), but the true number is closer to 250ppm of calmag.

1 day later first 2 leaves got orange spots
Now - 2 days have passed and 3-4 leaves have orange spots.


Is this PH lockout? Or a deficiency?

I havent given any nutes yet (except calmag once 2 days ago), I will water today/tomorrow.
The plant was given 80% RO and 20% tap water for the first 18 days, no nutes.
Only feeding was 2 days ago with 250ppm (Ro +calmag)

Thanks guys and happy growing!

 

[EZCalyx]

I would lean towards Magnesium deficiency. I would suggest continue the Cal/Mag with manufacturers recommendations. Are you watering to runoff and allowing the soil to get mostly dry before watering again? In my opinion the 24 hour light cycle is a waste. I would recommend going to 18/6 but since you've been on 24 I would slowly incrementally decrease to 18/6 over a week or so.

 

[Roy Growin]

Light mix is for seedlings/cuttings
You need to be adding the full range [Algae, Fish, Top, Heaven, Zyme etc] for it to work optimally as designed
Too much Ca can interfere with macros including Fe/B/Mn/Zn/Cu - but Bio will sort itself out
There's nothing left in the substrate, so treat it as organic hydro

 

[kreikrei]

I would lean towards Magnesium deficiency. I would suggest continue the Cal/Mag with manufacturers recommendations. Are you watering to runoff and allowing the soil to get mostly dry before watering again? In my opinion the 24 hour light cycle is a waste. I would recommend going to 18/6 but since you've been on 24 I would slowly incrementally decrease to 18/6 over a week or so.

Thanks for chiming in!

24 hours for vegetative stage, will switch to 18/6 or 20/4 during flowering.

Yes, first big watering was to runoff. (I presoaked my airpots and didnt water for 14 days, just the top a little when it got dry)

I am/was a bit worried about PH lockout. When you google "orange patches cannabis" a lot of answers are pictures, where th soil has bcome ACIDIC and leaves look exactly like mine.

I - mean , how can it be a deficiency of calcium or magnesium if I overdosed on calmag (about 3-4x manufacturers recomndd dose) 3 days ago.
Luckily - today the orange spots seem to have stopped spreading though.

 

[kreikrei]

Light mix is for seedlings/cuttings
You need to be adding the full range [Algae, Fish, Top, Heaven, Zyme etc] for it to work optimally as designed
Too much Ca can interfere with macros including Fe/B/Mn/Zn/Cu - but Bio will sort itself out
There's nothing left in the substrate, so treat it as organic hydro

I have Grow, bloom, top max, algamic and activera, bioheaven too pricey
What did you mean by saying "Bio will sort itself out?
Thanks for replying

 

[Buds Buddy]

Wish I could help, but I've never been able to grow in Bio-Biz. Every seedling died when I tried it. I gave up on it & went back to FFOF. Hope you have much better luck than I do with it.

 

[kreikrei]

Wish I could help, but I've never been able to grow in Bio-Biz. Every seedling died when I tried it. I gave up on it & went back to FFOF. Hope you have much better luck than I do with it.

Actually I havent been successfull with Biobizz. I have killed 6 plants and 2 that finished.. well the smoke is average and doesnt last long.
This took place during 2 grows. Seeds were decent. Biobizz batches were also from different vendors, so I doubt it was bad batch

No matter how I watered (presoaked or not) or gave nutes (some were given low 25-50% does on day 14,some on day 21), some were given full doses on 3rd week - ALL of the plants started yellowing on bottom fan leaves and showed what seemed to be several deficiencies. (Nitrogen, magnsium, one poster even said manganese)

BIOBIZZ. Is this too much supplements? NOT nutrients (N,P,K)
this was my first grow, 2plants survived.

But I cant at this time blame biobizz yet, because I am a total noob.
This is my 3rd grow and only 1plant (day 22) is showing bad symtoms - the one in the pictures. Today the orange spots havent progressed.
2other plants (also day 22) are looking good, so I hope this time I will get a nice harvest.
The problem is-I have NO IDEA what I did wrong in my first 2 grows... so I cant really say I learned anything lol.

The ONLY differnce is I use RO water now, because I have a pretty high (300-400pppm) tap water.

 

[EZCalyx]

You need to water to run off every single time then allow the soil to almost completely dry before watering again. About 20% run off is very important. You may have lock out, salt build up and poor root health. It may help to do a complete flush with pure water then when the soil has dried, lightly use nutrients.

 

[Roy Growin]

I have Grow, bloom, top max, algamic and activera, bioheaven too pricey
What did you mean by saying "Bio will sort itself out?
Thanks for replying

I mean if you overdose with synthetic nutes, the plant will quickly fry - not so with Bio
Used BB for a long time but always needed to supplement K [PK] in particular for best growth
What with fungus gnats and the feed becoming somewhat smelly over time, I stick to synth now as any remedial action is much faster to take effect and can be controlled more accurately

 

[kreikrei]

I mean if you overdose with synthetic nutes, the plant will quickly fry - not so with Bio
Used BB for a long time but always needed to supplement K [PK] in particular for best growth
What with fungus gnats and the feed becoming somewhat smelly over time, I stick to synth now as any remedial action is much faster to take effect and can be controlled more accurately

Thanks for suggestion.
Yeah,I am starting to wonder why grow "semi organic" with biobizz or other organic nute lines.Starting to think ither notill/fully organic or synthetic nutes is the way.

When you say you noticed with biobizz that more "K " was needed - how did you notice it?
Did you give 100% of recomended doses but plant was showing K deficiency and you were positive lockout isnt the cause?

 

[Roy Growin]

Lower leaves fading, brown spots etc, and later observed rather feeble roots
Could be caused by pH rising because they responded to tap water flushes positively

 

[Fenderbender]

Holy cow look at that stem!

 

[bluter]

looks a little like a mag def and touch overwater. 3 gallon can be a bit restrictive, it's a decent size if you have space restrictions, not all autos will be comfy in them. 5 gallon is much more common.

if you've been having difficulty you should switch to photos. photos are a thousand percent better to learn on. the BB line can be a bit pissy to run as well, though several have found success with it. you kinda chose the hard path to follow when approaching as a new grower.

 

[kreikrei]

looks a little like a mag def and touch overwater. 3 gallon can be a bit restrictive, it's a decent size if you have space restrictions, not all autos will be comfy in them. 5 gallon is much more common.

if you've been having difficulty you should switch to photos. photos are a thousand percent better to learn on. the BB line can be a bit pissy to run as well, though several have found success with it. you kinda chose the hard path to follow when approaching as a new grower.

I overfed them calmag. Does too much calcium lock out magnesium? They are good now, orange spots didnt spread further than sen in the picture.
I cant grow photos I think. Tent is close to my bed, that means I value noiselessness.
Photos need 12 h of dark. Whenever I give autos 4-6h of dark, humidity spikes to 70+% despite AC exhaust fan. I also live in pretty humid area.
I have a good/quiet/strong oscillating fan, but I am afraid that when flowering with photos, those 12h periods of 70+ humidity will result in mold more often than not no matter the airflow.

And it all comes down to noise. Any decent dehumidifier has a compressor and is just too loud. Small dehumidifiers dont do anything, maybe if I used -5 simultaneously.
Anyway, I am now thinking of calcium chloride experiment as a dehumidify.

 

[bluter]

I overfed them calmag. Does too much calcium lock out magnesium? They are good now, orange spots didnt spread further than sen in the picture.
I cant grow photos I think. Tent is close to my bed, that means I value noiselessness.
Photos need 12 h of dark. Whenever I give autos 4-6h of dark, humidity spikes to 70+% despite AC exhaust fan. I also live in pretty humid area.
I have a good/quiet/strong oscillating fan, but I am afraid that when flowering with photos, those 12h periods of 70+ humidity will result in mold more often than not no matter the airflow.

And it all comes down to noise. Any decent dehumidifier has a compressor and is just too loud. Small dehumidifiers dont do anything, maybe if I used -5 simultaneously.
Anyway, I am now thinking of calcium chloride experiment as a dehumidify.

what's your ambient rh% outside the grow space in another room ? if you're in a high rh climate it can get super hard.

are you dumping the air into the same room ?
if so, your humidity will stay high unless you exhaust externally to outdoor, even in a drier climate. it's always best to plan grow spaces with external exhaust. it helps avoid loads of other issues as well.


dehums / ac will help for sure, i've even used dry bags for livestock and other apps in some cases. the trouble the ac / dehums etc is the added energy consumption. ac even needs external exhaust anyway. the dry bags are passive, but are a one use, and are pricey enough to not be useful for home use. they are only effective to an extent as well.

the cheapest and best way to control rh the best is always to move air outdoor.

a good extraction fan with an outdoor exhaust is always the most cost effective in the long run. in many cases you don't always need the full fan, and nearly all good extractors come with a fan control. many come with digital controllers you set to a specific temp, rh, or both.

if a decent extractor on its own doesn't work, then it's time to consider dehums etc. always go with the cheapest first.

my flower space is built with external exhaust, i'm in a drier climate and i can barely get away with an internal exhaust in veg. there'd be no hope in flower. i run a 4 x 4 flower space, usually 4 - 6 plants.

 

[kreikrei]

what's your ambient rh% outside the grow space in another room ? if you're in a high rh climate it can get super hard.

are you dumping the air into the same room ?
if so, your humidity will stay high unless you exhaust externally to outdoor, even in a drier climate. it's always best to plan grow spaces with external exhaust. it helps avoid loads of other issues as well.


dehums / ac will help for sure, i've even used dry bags for livestock and other apps in some cases. the trouble the ac / dehums etc is the added energy consumption. ac even needs external exhaust anyway. the dry bags are passive, but are a one use, and are pricey enough to not be useful for home use. they are only effective to an extent as well.

the cheapest and best way to control rh the best is always to move air outdoor.

a good extraction fan with an outdoor exhaust is always the most cost effective in the long run. in many cases you don't always need the full fan, and nearly all good extractors come with a fan control. many come with digital controllers you set to a specific temp, rh, or both.

if a decent extractor on its own doesn't work, then it's time to consider dehums etc. always go with the cheapest first.

my flower space is built with external exhaust, i'm in a drier climate and i can barely get away with an internal exhaust in veg. there'd be no hope in flower. i run a 4 x 4 flower space, usually 4 - 6 plants.

1) Sadly high humidity zone, especially autumn/winter.
Currently inside room humidity is 62%, tent about 66%. (light on, lighs off its 75%)
2) I exhaust in the attic

When it comes to environment - I have eberything planned out with the exception of dehumidifier.
Air goes outside, exhaust fan I built a soundproof box for. I have a very good oscillating fan, that is strong, yet quiet.
I have heard some people flower with 60% humidity on purpose (vpd?)
But those that do, all epmhasize AIR MOVEMENT. I hope that air movemnt will b my saving grace.
I will also build a calcium chloride bucket and try that
Dehumidifer is my last option - just too loud. Maybe 5 small dehueys (each removes 500-700ml day) is an option, will see.

Thanks for such a detailed answer.

 

[bluter]

exhausting to the attic is not good unless you have air exchange to outdoor up there as well. it doesn't have to be active exchange if the space is large enough. if it can't exchange air you can easily get black mold coming through the walls after a few seasons.

if you're in row housing the neighbours will 'get wind of it' as well. maybe before you do.

you can move piles of air around the place, but without getting rid of the old stuff, and bringing new in, all you are doing is rotating the same spent wet air. and loading it up more as you go. it can spiral if not solved.

high rh is the worst. like just the absolute worst ever.
i have dealt with both high rh and low rh and i will take low any time. you have to learn to be able to grow through both no matter what though.

in both cases the best way is the most minimal approach first, then add layers as you go.
moving air outdoor is the easiest and most stealth in the long run. it's where to begin.

edit : trying to get it below ambient rh is a no sum game. at best try to match what ambient is in your climate, and learn to grow with that. the grow space will always be higher.

none of this addresses the current issue though, which still looks like a def to me. 3 gallon is always a harder grow to manage. it could be ph interfering or a plain nute def from flushing as well.

 

[kreikrei]

exhausting to the attic is not good unless you have air exchange to outdoor up there as well. it doesn't have to be active exchange if the space is large enough. if it can't exchange air you can easily get black mold coming through the walls after a few seasons.

if you're in row housing the neighbours will 'get wind of it' as well. maybe before you do.

you can move piles of air around the place, but without getting rid of the old stuff, and bringing new in, all you are doing is rotating the same spent wet air. and loading it up more as you go. it can spiral if not solved.

high rh is the worst. like just the absolute worst ever.
i have dealt with both high rh and low rh and i will take low any time. you have to learn to be able to grow through both no matter what though.

in both cases the best way is the most minimal approach first, then add layers as you go.
moving air outdoor is the easiest and most stealth in the long run. it's where to begin.

edit : trying to get it below ambient rh is a no sum game. at best try to match what ambient is in your climate, and learn to grow with that. the grow space will always be higher.

none of this addresses the current issue though, which still looks like a def to me. 3 gallon is always a harder grow to manage. it could be ph interfering or a plain nute def from flushing as well.

Thanks for detailed answer.
Yes - I agree. With ambient humidity as high as it is and without a dehumidifer I wont get the tent humidity % under ambient.

BUT - I can hope good airflow and constant plant movement will minimize rot risk

I will be more precise - I am exhausting the air into chimney, I made a wrong statement regarding attic. Its not a "row" house, so neighbours wot know. I assume exhausting in chimney also carries some mold risks or some other unforseen costs in the future..

I would post photos, but cant now. The deficiency/overdose/ph issue seems to be solved.
The plant is now much bigger than it those pictures and o more discolorations have appeared