Pale veins on fan leaves and some small orange spots (autoflower gorilla)

[noobstar]

Hi every1,
Almost at day 42 on my fast buds auto flower gorilla glue(first grow). 2 days ago I noticed veins on some fan leaves going pale close to yellow while some small orange dots on them. Now it almost spreads all fan leaves. today I noticed a small hole in one of the fan leaves and when I touched it leave almost broke into two. I dont think its rust fungs or spider mites. back of the leaves seems fine and rust doesnt get on to my finger when I touch. Pale veins are alot more noticeable under the light. Due to picture quality of my phone they are not very clear on normal light pics.

Below are the details:
150wCOB LED
Biobizz light mix, 7 liter
I use Advanced Nut Sensi bloom a+b 2ml / liter and bud-candy 1ml/Liter
I water when pot is light as feather with 1 or 1.5L water (usually every 3-4 days now and I water with 7ph water lowest I can buy)
It is on 20-4 light schedule.
I thought it may be cal deficiency and added some egg shells of 1 egg to the soil 2 days ago. No progress yet.
I am not sure if its early nute burn or cal/mag deficiency so before giving her anything I would like to have pro opinion.

for call mag I can get biobizz cal/mag here and add to my water solution above. Please also advice on how I should use it. I am a noob. Pics below.
(Pale veins and few orange spots are alot more noticeable under the light. Due to picture quality of my phone they are not very clear on normal light pics.)
Ps. Flower leaves looks fine to me.

Thanks a lot in advance.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Wow, don't see that every day.

Calcium deficiency often shows as bits of necrotic leaf tissue. Magnesium deficiency would be the opposite of what you're seeing - the parts between the leaves lose their color.

It sort of looks like a sulfur deficiency. Try adding a teaspoon of Epsom salt per gallon when you feed/water. You can also foliar feed, at about a tablespoon per gallon of water. Make sure your pH isn't out of whack. I'm going to bed in 3... 2... 1... (lol). I'll see if I can get you some more expert help than me, both to double-check my diagnosis (which is a guess ), suggested treatment, and to discuss pH with you if she doesn't mind. @Emilya , would you be kind enough to assist, please? (Thanks!)

 

[Emilya Green]

This looks to be a pH caused lockout. The pinprick holes worry me, and spider mites should be considered. The nutes you are giving just are not available to the plants outside the pH range they are designed to work at. Do not add the epsom salt... that would be a quick way to overload the plant on magnesium if you did that more than a couple of times... I suggest using the calmag product instead. The eggshells were a good idea, but the application was wrong... those shells will break down and become available to the plant sometime in 2021... well after this grow is done.

My suggestion is to get your pH where it needs to be on every fluid you apply to this plant. You havent said whether you are in soil or a soilless mix, so I can't advise you what that pH should be... but your plant is clearly saying it isnt where it needs to be. The pH needs to be the same, measured and adjusted right before applying the fluid to the plant, whether it be a feeding mix or just plain water. In soil, shoot for 6.3 pH and in soilless, the target is 5.8 pH. Accuracy counts.

 

[noobstar]

This looks to be a pH caused lockout. The pinprick holes worry me, and spider mites should be considered. The nutes you are giving just are not available to the plants outside the pH range they are designed to work at. Do not add the epsom salt... that would be a quick way to overload the plant on magnesium if you did that more than a couple of times... I suggest using the calmag product instead. The eggshells were a good idea, but the application was wrong... those shells will break down and become available to the plant sometime in 2021... well after this grow is done.

My suggestion is to get your pH where it needs to be on every fluid you apply to this plant. You havent said whether you are in soil or a soilless mix, so I can't advise you what that pH should be... but your plant is clearly saying it isnt where it needs to be. The pH needs to be the same, measured and adjusted right before applying the fluid to the plant, whether it be a feeding mix or just plain water. In soil, shoot for 6.3 pH and in soilless, the target is 5.8 pH. Accuracy counts.

Hi Emilya, thx alot for the advices again.
I am on soil biobizz light mix is the brand of the soild. I thought using advanced nutriets producst ( I guess they are ph perfect) would get my water into perfect PH everytime. I dont have a ph meter but I will get it asap and probably I need PH up PH down solutions as well right and adjust the ph just by using that water?But how do i measure the PH level of water? with the same ph meter I get for the soil? Apart from that I should get a calmag solution asap as well right?
BAck to mites, I have checked bottom of every leaf and I did not see anything suspicious, can it still be mites?

Also I wont be able to adjust PH or add calmag until Wednesday, would the plant die or gets irrevocable damage until then?

 

[Emilya Green]

Hi Emilya, thx alot for the advices again.
I am on soil biobizz light mix is the brand of the soild. I thought using advanced nutriets producst ( I guess they are ph perfect) would get my water into perfect PH everytime. I dont have a ph meter but I will get it asap and probably I need PH up PH down solutions as well right and adjust the ph just by using that water?But how do i measure the PH level of water? with the same ph meter I get for the soil? Apart from that I should get a calmag solution asap as well right?
BAck to mites, I have checked bottom of every leaf and I did not see anything suspicious, can it still be mites?

Also I wont be able to adjust PH or add calmag until Wednesday, would the plant die or gets irrevocable damage until then?

Sorry for the confusion... early in the AM hours I missed the soil reference. So we know that 6.3 is the appropriate pH to adjust to then. PH perfect technology does not work when the incoming water is too far off normal. Get a meter that measures your water out of the tap, and see how far away from 6.3 it is. When you water with just water every other time, you will need to adjust it to that number. When you add your nutes to the water, check after mixing everything in and see how far down the acidic nutes pulled the pH number down to, and then adjust to 6.3 again.

Measuring your soil pH is a waste of time and will not tell you anything useful, despite all the advice you hear on the internet to the contrary. The base pH of your soil is set at the factory to be on the high end of the 6.2-6.8 range on purpose... there is nothing that you need to do to adjust it. The high pH of your soil is what makes the act of watering at 6.3 pH work... the soil forces the pH to drift through the entire 6.2-6.3 range, automatically.

You can't measure soil pH with a probe anyway, and the pH of the soil will be different in different areas of the container, depending on how wet the soil is and what the pH was of the liquid making it wet. Soil pH is measured in a lab, using distilled water and a slurry test, in a vacuum. You can't do it with a probe.

You can completely control the pH of your incoming fluids though, and you should get a good digital meter that can measure it accurately.

Definitely try adding some calmag when you get it, but I really believe this out of control pH situation in your grow is what is causing the problem. Fix that, and I believe your problems will go away without adding anything else. Get on this as soon as you can, but no, you have not caused irrevocable damage... yet.

Regarding possible spider mites.... you wont see them. They are almost microscopic and notoriously hard to spot. If you are seeing unexplained white pinpricks in your leaves though, that is a clear sign. Please let me point you to one of our sponsors, SNS... or investigate how to use NEEM Oil. Get us some close up focused pictures in natural light of this pinprick damage so we can be sure what we are looking at.

 

[noobstar]

thank you

Sorry for the confusion... early in the AM hours I missed the soil reference. So we know that 6.3 is the appropriate pH to adjust to then. PH perfect technology does not work when the incoming water is too far off normal. Get a meter that measures your water out of the tap, and see how far away from 6.3 it is. When you water with just water every other time, you will need to adjust it to that number. When you add your nutes to the water, check after mixing everything in and see how far down the acidic nutes pulled the pH number down to, and then adjust to 6.3 again.

Measuring your soil pH is a waste of time and will not tell you anything useful, despite all the advice you hear on the internet to the contrary. The base pH of your soil is set at the factory to be on the high end of the 6.2-6.8 range on purpose... there is nothing that you need to do to adjust it. The high pH of your soil is what makes the act of watering at 6.3 pH work... the soil forces the pH to drift through the entire 6.2-6.3 range, automatically.

You can't measure soil pH with a probe anyway, and the pH of the soil will be different in different areas of the container, depending on how wet the soil is and what the pH was of the liquid making it wet. Soil pH is measured in a lab, using distilled water and a slurry test, in a vacuum. You can't do it with a probe.

You can completely control the pH of your incoming fluids though, and you should get a good digital meter that can measure it accurately.

Definitely try adding some calmag when you get it, but I really believe this out of control pH situation in your grow is what is causing the problem. Fix that, and I believe your problems will go away without adding anything else. Get on this as soon as you can, but no, you have not caused irrevocable damage... yet.

Regarding possible spider mites.... you wont see them. They are almost microscopic and notoriously hard to spot. If you are seeing unexplained white pinpricks in your leaves though, that is a clear sign. Please let me point you to one of our sponsors, SNS... or investigate how to use NEEM Oil. Get us some close up focused pictures in natural light of this pinprick damage so we can be sure what we are looking at.

thx alot Emilya. there was only one pinprick tho, I will get some close up pics

 

[noobstar]

Sorry for the confusion... early in the AM hours I missed the soil reference. So we know that 6.3 is the appropriate pH to adjust to then. PH perfect technology does not work when the incoming water is too far off normal. Get a meter that measures your water out of the tap, and see how far away from 6.3 it is. When you water with just water every other time, you will need to adjust it to that number. When you add your nutes to the water, check after mixing everything in and see how far down the acidic nutes pulled the pH number down to, and then adjust to 6.3 again.

Measuring your soil pH is a waste of time and will not tell you anything useful, despite all the advice you hear on the internet to the contrary. The base pH of your soil is set at the factory to be on the high end of the 6.2-6.8 range on purpose... there is nothing that you need to do to adjust it. The high pH of your soil is what makes the act of watering at 6.3 pH work... the soil forces the pH to drift through the entire 6.2-6.3 range, automatically.

You can't measure soil pH with a probe anyway, and the pH of the soil will be different in different areas of the container, depending on how wet the soil is and what the pH was of the liquid making it wet. Soil pH is measured in a lab, using distilled water and a slurry test, in a vacuum. You can't do it with a probe.

You can completely control the pH of your incoming fluids though, and you should get a good digital meter that can measure it accurately.

Definitely try adding some calmag when you get it, but I really believe this out of control pH situation in your grow is what is causing the problem. Fix that, and I believe your problems will go away without adding anything else. Get on this as soon as you can, but no, you have not caused irrevocable damage... yet.

Regarding possible spider mites.... you wont see them. They are almost microscopic and notoriously hard to spot. If you are seeing unexplained white pinpricks in your leaves though, that is a clear sign. Please let me point you to one of our sponsors, SNS... or investigate how to use NEEM Oil. Get us some close up focused pictures in natural light of this pinprick damage so we can be sure what we are looking at.

attaching some new pics. Since I need to wait couple days more for PH adjusters and cal-mag, I have given her just plain 1L (+7 PH unfortunately) water today otherwise she would get thirsty. Did not add any more nutriets, thought that If she is not able to absorb them due to PH no need to make soil extra rich.
Once I get the PH adjuster what do u recommend? Flush her really good and give nutes or just cal-mag or just water?

 

[Emilya Green]

Forget the flush... this does not look like a salt buildup... just give the proper nutes at the proper pH along with calmag. Mix it all together at get the pH adjusted to 6.2 before pouring it in there.

 

[noobstar]

Forget the flush... this does not look like a salt buildup... just give the proper nutes at the proper pH along with calmag. Mix it all together at get the pH adjusted to 6.2 before pouring it in there.

okay will do. I am right to not give her nutes with a water above 7ph at this point right? leaves look alot scary under the light bud seems fine tho thx alot again btw, couldnt do it without your help

 

[Emilya Green]

Adding nutes to the above 7 water will lower it substantially... nutes are acidic. So no, I don't think it is a total waste of time giving nutes right now... but it is going to be interesting to see what this pH is once you get the meter, and then it will be easy to see where the problem is. Your water only runs inbetween the nutes is where things get totally out of whack and nothing is mobile.

 

[bluter]

get a loupe to look for mites and for checking trichomes. you're gonna need one no matter.

em is dead on. vein discoloration with necrotic spots points to a cal-mag issue, likely caused by a lockout in the root zone. the pale veins are the indicator of root zone issues, otherwise the damage occurs between the veins themselves.

 

[noobstar]

what do u mean by em is dead on?

 

[bluter]

what do u mean by em is dead on?

lol. means she is correct.

 

[noobstar]

lol. means she is correct.

ahh did not get EM refers to emilya what x loupe do i need?

 

[Emilya Green]

ahh did not get EM refers to emilya what x loupe do i need?

That's my fault... My given name is Emily, but I am known by many other names. I have been known to sign my messages as Emmers, Emmie, Em, Emster, Dr Em, E, M, The Doctor of Deaf and of course Emilya, which was inspired from the plant, Sensimilla.

 

[bluter]

ahh did not get EM refers to emilya what x loupe do i need?

recommended range is 30x - 60x. i use a 30x, and will probably get a 40x soon. there are little usb microscopes for lapotops and phones that are way cooler than just a loupe. loupes are cheap though.

 

[noobstar]

cheers! one thing that I forgot to mention and seems to be very important after I made some more research is that;
this situation started after I started to use advanced nutriets bud candy product. Before I was only using sensi bloom A+B which I know as PH perfect. Not sure about Bud Candy tho. Maybe that made my water too acidic or base. I'll do more research on it.

 

[noobstar]

cheers! one thing that I forgot to mention and seems to be very important after I made some more research is that;
this situation started after I started to use advanced nutriets bud candy product.Before I was only using sensi bloom A+B which I know as PH perfect. Not sure about Bud Candy tho. Maybe that made my water too acidic or base. I'll do more research on it.

 

[bluter]

cheers! one thing that I forgot to mention and seems to be very important after I made some more research is that;
this situation started after I started to use advanced nutriets bud candy product. Before I was only using sensi bloom A+B which I know as PH perfect. Not sure about Bud Candy tho. Maybe that made my water too acidic or base. I'll do more research on it.

don't trust the ph perfect pitch. check your nute mix and ph properly if out of range.

AN is a pricey nute system and has slipped drastically in the last couple years. there has been piles of internal trouble at AN and it's being reflected in the product.

 

[noobstar]

I have read that; calcium deficiency can make new leaves at bottom to twist which is also happening to my plant. Plus some say that some LEDs may make plant to use too much calcium and cause calcium deficiency.