Help, Danger Will Robinson?

[cbdhemp808]

Actually I know how to press and extract using alcohol…my question is the difference between the two products…not the procedure

Good question.

My understanding is that a rosin press is producing only the resin from the trichomes, which would come out as a pure, sticky honey-colored material. This is composed mainly of cannabinoids, terpenes, and flavonoids.

Alcohol extraction is pulling out the resin along with other constituents of the bud material, including chlorophyll, waxes... a bunch of stuff, known as "undesirables". (I abbreviate alcohol extracted oil as AEO.)

If you do a "cold wash" of the bud material (using very cold alcohol and buds), this reduces the undesirables. The most purity is achieved by doing a cold wash of the kief (i.e. the isolated trichomes). So, basically you are making hash, and then producing hash oil by way of AEO. The key to producing high-quality AEO is to purge the alcohol to a high degree, which means evaporating off almost all the alcohol. The lower the temperature this is done at, the longer it takes, but the less terpenes are lost. My understanding is that a vacuum system allows the evap temperature to be lower. This is what the Source Turbo uses.

One can produce high-quality vape oil using kief and cold wash AEO and hot-plate purge (not vacuum). It produces a light amber oil.

 

[cbdhemp808]

When I say "alcohol" I mean pure, food-grade ethanol made from fermenting grapes or grain. It is 100% alcohol. Everclear is only 95% alcohol, and 5% water, so I don't think would work for what I'm talking about above. That's my understanding.

If you can acquire pure food-grade ethanol, be careful what type of bottle it comes in – pure ethanol is a solvent. Glass is likely a lot better than plastic. Some types of plastic may leach bad chemicals into the alcohol, which may wind up in your end product.

 

[bluter]

When I say "alcohol" I mean pure, food-grade ethanol made from fermenting grapes or grain. It is 100% alcohol. Everclear is only 95% alcohol, and 5% water, so I don't think would work for what I'm talking about above. That's my understanding.

95% is considered food grade. you can extract with as low as 75%, but it will take longer. most things above 75% require licensing to purchase if you're in canada.

everclear will be the most accessible here, but is not legal in all markets.

 

[cbdhemp808]

95% is considered food grade. you can extract with as low as 75%, but it will take longer. most things above 75% require licensing to purchase if you're in canada.

everclear will be the most accessible here, but is not legal in all markets.

Yes, however if it's not 100% alcohol, and you'd like to be able to purge the alcohol, then you will be able to purge most of the alcohol, but you'll be left with the water. I just really don't know what the result would be.

All high-grade alcohol (ethanol) extracts and concentrates use 100% pure ethanol.

 

[bluter]

All high-grade alcohol (ethanol) extracts and concentrates use 100% pure ethanol.

which are not legal to purchase here. hence the post. i work with alcohol for a living. i have access to grades that high for the purposes of sale to specialized licence holders. it gets used in livestock and lab settings.

internet sales of any sort or import of alcohol from any other jurisdiction is illegal. for example : the popular product extractohol, carries a $5000 fine and short jail sentence if caught importing it.

this really puts anyone looking for anything higher here in a bind. there is even a local distiller making a product at 95%, but it is only legally sold right at the distillery itself. you can't order it for delivery, it is not available at any other location.

retail to consumer % is capped at 95%. anything over 75% is not supposed to be on display to public but can be legally sold if a customer requests it.


the water mostly evaporates out of the lower % stuff if you use it. what does happen is the water brings unwanted compounds over with the extract, which effects flavour. this is almost unavoidable if you can't get the higher grade. and it will take longer. some use heat, some just let evaporate natural.

 

[cbdhemp808]

which are not legal to purchase here. hence the post. i work with alcohol for a living. i have access to grades that high for the purposes of sale to specialized licence holders. it gets used in livestock and lab settings.

internet sales of any sort or import of alcohol from any other jurisdiction is illegal. for example : the popular product extractohol, carries a $5000 fine and short jail sentence if caught importing it.

this really puts anyone looking for anything higher here in a bind. there is even a local distiller making a product at 95%, but it is only legally sold right at the distillery itself. you can't order it for delivery, it is not available at any other location.

retail to consumer % is capped at 95%. anything over 75% is not supposed to be on display to public but can be legally sold if a customer requests it.


the water mostly evaporates out of the lower % stuff if you use it. what does happen is the water brings unwanted compounds over with the extract, which effects flavour. this is almost unavoidable if you can't get the higher grade. and it will take longer. some use heat, some just let evaporate natural.

Ah... Canada. Why would they make 95% legal but not 100%? I mean, if we are talking human consumption, they are both essentially the same – one is just more toxic than the other. What's really going on?

 

[Phytoplankton]

Ah... Canada. Why would they make 95% legal but not 100%? I mean, if we are talking human consumption, they are both essentially the same – one is just more toxic than the other. What's really going on?

Not just Canada, In California I can get pure grain alcohol at a chemical supply store, but not the high test Everclear, 151 is the highest you can get in “drinking liquor”.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Not just Canada, In California I can get pure grain alcohol at a chemical supply store, but not the high test Everclear, 151 is the highest you can get in “drinking liquor”.

Yes, I see you don't need a license to buy pure ethanol in Calif.

Here's a company selling organic, $136/gal free shipping:

About Shipping and Receiving Your Order from CulinarySolvent.com

Purchasing food-grade ethyl alcohol from CulinarySolvent.com is straightforward and efficient. Nonetheless, due to ethanol's classification as a hazardous material, additional procedures are necessary for shipping and delivering your order. This resource aims to address any questions you might...

culinarysolvent.com

I'd have to get a friend in Calif to forward it to me.

 

[bluter]

I'd have to get a friend in Calif to forward it to me.

he can't ship it to you without being bonded. you'd have to go get it.

Why would they make 95% legal but not 100%? I mean, if we are talking human consumption, they are both essentially the same – one is just more toxic than the other. What's really going on?

you answered your own question. we simply exert more control over items deemed to be dangerous, and alcohol in general. anyone who works or transports alcohol in the industry has to be bonded and regularly inspected.

on the flip side, you can legally make your own alcohol pretty much everywhere in canada. you just can't sell it. technically you can't even give it away. it also can't be served to the public at any type of function, whether private or open. home brew beer clubs and the like are seriously strung apart over it.

you can even buy pretty sophisticated mini-stills to make the alcohol. you just provide the base ingredients. that's how most of the pre-legal underground commercial extraction happened.

these days it is relatively easy to source a 95% grain alcohol for extractions. unless they have a particular licence, the distiller can't produce a product above 95%.

 

[cbdhemp808]

he can't ship it to you without being bonded. you'd have to go get it.

FedEx will ship flammable liquids, including to Hawaii. Are you saying FedEx won't ship pure ethanol from Calif to Hawaii?

RE: Why would they make 95% legal but not 100%? I mean, if we are talking human consumption, they are both essentially the same – one is just more toxic than the other. What's really going on?

you answered your own question. we simply exert more control over items deemed to be dangerous, and alcohol in general. anyone who works or transports alcohol in the industry has to be bonded and regularly inspected.

Sorry, question not answered.

What makes 95% less dangerous than 100%? Because of 5% water? Why? 95% is plenty flammable. 95% is plenty poisonous if ingested.

Is this just bureaucracy just doing what it does, or is there some physical logic behind it?

 

[Regrowth]

Well, in Ontario I think you need approval from the LCBO to even purchase grain alcohol at 95%. The approval process isn't all that complicated, you go on their website, fill in a form and you tell them you're doing extractions and aren't planning on drinking it. Then you can buy 1L bottles for like triple the price that you could buy it in another province for. Which is why isopropyl alcohol would ever be chosen instead of the grain alcohol - price and availability. You can grab big jugs of the stuff without much effort.

 

[bluter]

FedEx will ship flammable liquids, including to Hawaii. Are you saying FedEx won't ship pure ethanol from Calif to Hawaii?

maybe not. they can't air freight it for starters as it's flammable. might be able to boat ship. regardless, we're talking about international orders and there's no way it can legally travel over a border at all.

RE: Why would they make 95% legal but not 100%? I mean, if we are talking human consumption, they are both essentially the same – one is just more toxic than the other. What's really going on?

if consuming one 8 ounce serving will kill you it's illegal. 95% is considered just safe enough. it's an arbitrary number, chugging a half bottle of 95% everclear is just as likely to kill you. a lot depends on body weight, age, and sex.

most places here will sell you everclear, but you have to give up a lot of personal info to get it, and the amount is strictly controlled. you can only buy one bottle per purchase per day.

Sorry, question not answered.

see above. it's considered toxic and dangerous.

What makes 95% less dangerous than 100%? Because of 5% water? Why? 95% is plenty flammable. 95% is plenty poisonous if ingested.

again, see above.

Is this just bureaucracy just doing what it does, or is there some physical logic behind it?

there were several instances of folk drinking themselves to death in one sitting. so it got throttled.

 

[cbdhemp808]

RE: FedEx will ship flammable liquids, including to Hawaii. Are you saying FedEx won't ship pure ethanol from Calif to Hawaii?

maybe not. they can't air freight it for starters as it's flammable. might be able to boat ship. regardless, we're talking about international orders and there's no way it can legally travel over a border at all.

I'll try to find out if FedEx will ship ethanol.

I'm in communication with a company in Oregon right now that's following the rules to a tee. They are legally shipping flammable liquid (not ethanol) all over the U.S. by FedEx air overnight and 2-day, including to Hawaii.

I'm not talking about international orders... this discussion has gone beyond Canada.

RE: Why would they make 95% legal but not 100%? I mean, if we are talking human consumption, they are both essentially the same – one is just more toxic than the other. What's really going on?

if consuming one 8 ounce serving will kill you it's illegal. 95% is considered just safe enough. it's an arbitrary number, chugging a half bottle of 95% everclear is just as likely to kill you. a lot depends on body weight, age, and sex.

most places here will sell you everclear, but you have to give up a lot of personal info to get it, and the amount is strictly controlled. you can only buy one bottle per purchase per day.
• • •
there were several instances of folk drinking themselves to death in one sitting. so it got throttled.

Yep, both are toxic and dangerous, and as you said, 95% is an arbitrary number, not based on the reality on the ground.

My guess now is that the liquor industry had something to do with 95% being legal as Everclear.

 

[bluter]

I'll try to find out if FedEx will ship ethanol.

I'm in communication with a company in Oregon right now that's following the rules to a tee. They are legally shipping flammable liquid (not ethanol) all over the U.S. by FedEx air overnight and 2-day, including to Hawaii.

I'm not talking about international orders... this discussion has gone beyond Canada.

this is copied from the extractohol website ... US info only.




State Restrictions



Some states place restrictions on their residents receiving alcohol and some states don't. The states that do not are classified as "open states". If your state is among the "open states" listed below we can ship to you, provided that you are over 21 years or older.



Alabama Iowa New Jersey South Dakota
Arkansas Kentucky New York Tennessee
California Louisiana North Carolina Texas
Colorado Massachusetts North Dakota Wisconsin
Florida Michigan Ohio Wyoming
Georgia Mississippi Oklahoma
Indiana Missouri South Carolina
New Hampshire

If your state is not listed above, please send us an email and we will provide you with the requirements of your state.
We cannot ship to Alaska or Hawaii due to Hazmat regulations, or to Arizona due to other restrictions imposed by state law.


edit : it's about 28 states where you can get it no worries. you can't put it on a plane. i wish i could source it here. it can be used to make cherry oil with a vacuum extractor. cherry was a top shelf product, but disappeared with legal and crap ass bho.

 

[cbdhemp808]

We cannot ship to Alaska or Hawaii due to Hazmat regulations, or to Arizona due to other restrictions imposed by state law.

More bureaucracy, because explain how FedEx air to California is any different than FedEx air to Hawaii? It's alcohol in a package in the cargo hold of the aircraft.

"What hazmat class is ethanol? Class 3 Flammable Liquid" [ source: teamster.org ]​

FedEx: Accepted Hazardous Materials... Class 3 Flammable Liquid.

 

[bluter]

More bureaucracy, because explain how FedEx air to California is any different than FedEx air to Hawaii? It's alcohol in a package in the cargo hold of the aircraft.

"What hazmat class is ethanol? Class 3 Flammable Liquid" [ source: teamster.org ]​

FedEx: Accepted Hazardous Materials... Class 3 Flammable Liquid.

they probably don't air freight in the contiguous US.

 

[cbdhemp808]

they probably don't air freight in the contiguous US.

Bingo... thanks.

"We ship hazardous materials, including Limited Quantity materials, via FedEx Ground® within the contiguous U.S. Hazardous materials, including Limited Quantity materials, cannot be shipped to, from or within Alaska or Hawaii."