Issue with mothers

[Bounce3d]

Evening
I have a weird issue.
I have two mothers growing by an east facing window, with a 85w CFL above it, in a constant veg state.
It's in a soil mix of potting soil, Vermiculite, perlite and compost.
They are +- a year old, feeding low dose biobizz grow nutes at 6.5 ph when showing droop signs. The Rh is Bruce banner(showing symptoms) the Lh is silver back gorilla(no symptoms). I previously had 1 girl scout cookies mother there in the same spot, same conditions, same feeding and don't remember having this issue.

 

[Bounce3d]

It's our summer so they have between 22c and 32c rh also varying with the sumer rains but this is now being persistent.
All the symptoms are only on the Bruce banner

 

[013]

Hey what’s up Bounce??

hmmm if nothing else has changed….. after a year might be root bound and time for root pruning then repacking bottom and sides with fresh soil, at least that’s the standard annually prescribed treatment for moms…

Heres link Bonsai Mothers

 

[Bounce3d]

Hey what's up 013
Friend of mine also said that but the Silverback gorilla is doing great, it's stem is almost double that f the Bruce banner.
Was wondering if it wasn't maybe my soil lacking calcium.

 

[013]

as you know - no 2 plants are identical. One may relish growing conditions while the other pitches cookies over exact same gear.

don’t know beans about biobizz but I think @Roy Growin and @bluter are up to speed with it.

just for giggles When do you add cal mag to the water? Do you put it in first or does it get mixed in after your NPK? Cal-mag should go first stir & wait 15 mins, add NPK stir & wait adjust ph then pour.

honestly I have never kept a mom but dang those stalks are pretty behemoth! Must be doing something right!

 

[Roy Growin]

Don't think what's happening there is nute related - maybe a lack of them

There is not enough light to support those shoots, so keep topping the canopy for more shoots and better light penetration behind the canopy, so all active shoots get even light, try to flatten it
A more powerful bulb, or closer would help a lot

 

[013]

Excellent point Roy - they are turning to face the sun

 

[Roy Growin]

Excellent point Roy - they are turning to face the sun

Also it is an East facing window so the sun rises on an arc to the right, still shining through to the other side of the window late in the day

 

[Bounce3d]

thanks @Roy Growin and as always @013

let me give them a proper trim, move the light down and get some calcium nitrate

 

[SmokingWings]

I have had a similar looking problem of wilted stems and leaves on older mothers once or twice. Never have figured out the exact problem but these are things I did to keep a strain going for awhile. They are not in any particular order, just as they come to mind while typing.

One thing I did was taking many cuttings and getting them to root. Once they rooted I turned several of them into new mothers. Once I had the mothers going strong I let the older one prepare for flowering.

The whole plant is not wilting, just some parts here and there. Not good. Thin and weak stems always made me wonder if the problem I had on my plants involved the part of the stem that the nutrients, starches, water and hormones move up and down from the roots to the growing tips.

Remove any and all of the wilted stems and leaves. There is a reason they look so sickly. I don't know what it is but get rid of it. Do not try to root those pieces, just toss them on the compost pile. The stems do look thin and weak. Add calcium, either a liquid or a finely ground powder. Let that work its way into the soil. Then get set to do a transplant.

As soon as ready, start to transplant them. I would pull the mother plant out of the pot or bucket and rip big chunks of the root mass off the bottom and the sides and then put the plant and what was left of the roots back into a pot or bucket of soil and repack soil around it. Confidence that you can do it without killing what is left of the plant will go a long ways towards its survival.

Personally, I would get rid of the SCRoG net. Probably going to have to do it if you are planning on transplanting to grow a new root system. Yes, I have tried them and understand how they are supposed to work. If the plant is not able to support some new stem growth involving a few leaves on that stem then the plant is weak and a SCRoG net is not going to be the answer. That is what I am seeing in the photo, weak stems except for the main stem and the few older side stems.

I have a Blue Dream going right now. It is a clone off of a clone off of a clone going back 8 generations to a seed that was planted in October or November 2017.

 

[Bounce3d]

Thx @SmokingWings
I have gypsum and dolomite lime, everything I've read says the gypsum will be faster than the lime, which one one u suggest and in what doses?
Just trimmed them but now having two weeks of almost no sunlight and constant rain is worrying me too.

 

[bluter]

i wouldn't scrog out a mother. i don't think there's anything wrong if you do, it kinda encourages them a bit though.

for keeping them longer term i used to prune both roots and leaves / branches. mild veg nutes and weak lighting, about 25 - 35 % of normal. i found anything 50% and over made the plant want to take off again. i used to keep some under simple t5s, worked really well.


edit : oh and dirt. i kept them all in hp or a similar mix. treated close to soil.

 

[bluter]

Just trimmed them but now having two weeks of almost no sunlight and constant rain is worrying me too.

should be fine. you want mothers slow anyway. they do live through cloudy periods in the wild lol.

 

[SmokingWings]

Thx @SmokingWings
I have gypsum and dolomite lime, everything I've read says the gypsum will be faster than the lime, which one one u suggest and in what doses?
Just trimmed them but now having two weeks of almost no sunlight and constant rain is worrying me too.

The dolomite lime will take way to long to become available to the plant. Gypsum is the way to go.

Keep in mind that all this is what I would be doing if it were my plant as I mentioned in the earlier message. If the wilting of the growing tips on the one plant does not stop then more drastic action is needed.

As for dosage, if the package of gypsum/calcium was intended for indoor growing use the basic dose should be somewhere on it, usually on the back. If the dosage is not there then make a decision.

I would use a level teaspoon of the gypsum for a pot that is about the same as what you have. Apply it as even as possible on the soil. Each time the plant gets watered some of it will dissolve enough to be worked into the soil. Eventually it is all gone.

Since we don't know who else will come along and read this I want to remind them that the first couple of times applying a teaspoon of lime might be a real experience.; could end up with clumps falling off. Gentle taps on the spoon are the way to go. Sort of like what we would do if slowly adding more flour to thicken a gravy. Or, while dusting some cookies with powdered sugar shortly after they come out of the oven. With some practice the calcium will be a light layer on the soil, sort of looking like a layer of dust.

How often? I don't know since those are your plants and not mine in my room. Maybe once a week or 10 days apart for the first two or three applications. After that maybe every 2 or 3 or 4 weeks. Hard to say. My current favorite Grow and Flowering fertilizer mixes already have calcium blended in. I use the same company's bag of calcium for special situations.

 

[SmokingWings]

Just trimmed them but now having two weeks of almost no sunlight and constant rain is worrying me too.

The weather outside will have little effect on the indoor environment these plants are growing in. Like @bluter says, the plants go through cloudy periods in the wild.

The clouds and the rain might be something to worry about if the plants were outside. Since they are inside you can consider adding another light or moving the one you already have so it is closer to the plants. Or, do nothing and see how the plants react to the cloudy sky.

If you wanted to experiment you could add a bit more water to the indoor plants when it rains for several hours outside. See if this makes any difference.

 

[Bounce3d]

Have added an "elemental blend" (all the kelps and all the guano on packaging)
Some compost(with live worms) from my heap and gypsum, mixed throughly in a separate container.
Sprinkled a thin layer of gypsum on plants soil then covered with the mix and used a mister head to lightly water through.

Planning on makeshifting and extra light tomorrow but my old mother grew vigorously by this east facing window with the same light, will try add some pics of her too.

 

[cbdhemp808]

One thing I did was taking many cuttings and getting them to root. Once they rooted I turned several of them into new mothers. Once I had the mothers going strong I let the older one prepare for flowering.

This is exactly what I do in my perpetual grow... Grow up plants in veg, take cuttings, clone 'em, move the moms to flower, grow up the clones, rinse & repeat. I don't know what generation of clones I'm up to, but it's working just fine. I did notice with a CBG pheno that she is starting to maybe show signs of foxtailing (still in veg), but that may be because I've just kept her in veg too long. Curious, too, that she has become difficult to clone. Maybe I'm hitting some kinda wall with that particular plant.

The wilt on the OPs moms makes me think there's something going on with the stems... fungus maybe.

 

[SmokingWings]

I don't know what generation of clones I'm up to, but it's working just fine.

I make a note on a piece of blue masking tape and stick it to the side of the container. The notes will let me know the name of the strain and which mother that particular clone came from. Also notes made on day the seed was planted or date the cutting was taken. The date of each transplanting are listed. Final growing note is the day that plant is moved to the flowering tent.

The day it moves into the flowering tent each plant will get a 4 digit number. All the info is then added to the computer file. In theory I could go back and draw a family tree for each plant that gets flowered showing where it came from, how long from cutting and between each transplanting and if there are any clones from that plant on the vegetating bench or also in the flowering area.

The 4 digit number helps keep track of everything plus I can use it to find the date the plant ended up in the tent. Allow one week for transition to flowering and then start counting another 8 weeks. Then check the buds. Plus the number tells me how many plants, vast majority being clones, that I have put into flowering,

The system might be extra work, or too much work, for some people but it has paid for itself. A clone started flowering male. Using the system I could find the other clones plus the mother plant and remove them all, even the clones that had not yet started to show.

And none of the wondering how many more weeks till a plant is ready to harvest.

Curious, too, that she has become difficult to clone. Maybe I'm hitting some kinda wall with that particular plant.

I know what you are seeing. Still not sure if something can be done to reverse that difficulty in getting the newer cuttings to grow roots.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I make a note on a piece of blue masking tape and stick it to the side of the container.

Bravo. One day I may keep meticulous notes. I'm kinda in a stage of my growing career where I'm establishing basic things like what strains I really want to grow, ironing out my soil mix and feeding, trying to optimize for bigger yields, and the big one... gearing up to make a drying room. Also my grow spaces in the veg and flower house aren't dialed in yet. There's some definite improvements I can make, in terms of use of the space, work surfaces, etc. All in good time!

I know what you are seeing. Still not sure if something can be done to reverse that difficulty in getting the newer cuttings to grow roots.

I took a couple top cuttings last night – hopefully they'll do better. I think some small roots have developed on the side cuttings, but my prime indicator is if roots start coming out the bottom... not yet. This is basically the only plant I have that is starting to show difficulty cloning. This mom has been in veg perhaps too long. That's the impression I get from the foxtailing-type growth pattern. Today I gave her a big haircut... photo in my Quest thread coming up.

 

[SmokingWings]

One day I may keep meticulous notes.

I am not taking as many notes as it sounds.

Just the day a seed was planted, sprouted and then each time the plant was transplanted. Or the day a cutting was taken and then the day of each transplanting. Then the day it goes into the flowering tent.

Tried taking notes for things like when the plants were fertilized or sprayed but it added to the general confusion.