JohnGalt's First Grow - Outdoor Surprise 2010

[JohnGalt]

Here's what I know:
~4 gal tubs used as flower pots
Miracle Grow soil (or so I was told)
Sativa or Sativa dominant (judging by the leaves)
Plants were clones
Veg time = ?? (No idea; grown outdoors, plants were about 1.5' tall on arrival, moderately bushy)
Flowering began around 8/15 (or at least that's when I actually noticed the flower's hairs... due to heavy foot traffic around my hiding spot, I've avoided spending any more time out there than required to keep them watered and hidden)

Preface:

I've never grown a plant in my life, and this is one of the things that has held me back from pursuing the idea of growing for my medicinal needs. Then a few weeks ago I get a surprise: a friend of mine drops by with a couple plants and says, "a friend of a friend had to get rid of these in a hurry and you're the only one we know with a good space to grow in."

SURPRISE, I'm now the proud father of two plants. So, I cruise the interweb trying to figure out how to go about NOT killing these things, and I find 420mag's forum. Read a couple grow journals, read a ton of the resources in the "How to Grow" section (still only about 40% of the way through after several days). I do have some limited help from the friend; he knows how to water plants (I woulda probably drowned them already if not for him)... so they're still alive.

Well, the place I have these plants is outdoors. I live in a rural farm area, and it's harvest time! So literally a couple days after I get my plants hidden in the "yard" there are harvest laborers crawling all over the place... every day I wake up and prepare myself for the disappointment of having an empty spot in the ground where my plants should be. But so far I've lucked out (or maybe they're waiting for me to finish doing all the work so they can steal my harvest... do I sound paranoid?)

So, my plan is to set up an indoor grow space ASAP so these things aren't so easy to see or take. Problem is I have zero knowledge on indoor grows.

Also might mention I'm a MMJ patient, so my grow is California legal. With the way the economy has been, it will be nice to get a couple extra ounces out of this. Further, in educating myself out of necessity of the situation, I've come to decide to make it worth the investment (my time, $$ spent on grow room, etc) and make this a hobby. I figure with as often as I need to medicate, a small grow room could save me around $1000/year (after paying for start-up and ongoing growing costs).

The Grow:

So far, i took the plants to my hiding spot. Within a few days the plants were a good 6" taller and were visible from further away than I was comfortable with. So, I got to digging with the goal of keeping the plants lower than their concealing surroundings. Within a few days the tops of the plants were nearly visible again... damn things grow like... err... weeds

So, I moved some things around in such a way as to block view from the ground without creating extra shadows. The plants stopped just short of being visible over the top of their concealment...

And now they're blooming. I first noticed the bloom hairs on 8/15. However, due to heavy foot traffic around the farm, I haven't been out there much except to deliver water and pull off the dead lower leaves. (I'm worried I'll be seen and cause someone to get curious what I'm doing there.) The best I can tell these are females (as they should be since they were cloned).

Anyhow, I like a challenge and hope to learn from the mistakes I'll inevitably make. So, I plan to post my progress here for all to see.

Pictures soon to come (dug my camera out of a storage box and found out the USB cable doesn't work, so I'm waiting for the replacement to arrive by FedEx... $35 for a 3' cable... Kodak is such a ripoff...). My camera isn't the best, so don't anticipate any high-def macros of the trichs (unless I can find a way to use my camera and my pocket microscope together). Mostly I want to use it for documenting growth, plant health, and to have you guys help me troubleshoot problems.

I really enjoyed reading and learned from the grow journals of others, and hope someday some newbie will look back on this and at the least learn what not to do!

 

[JohnGalt]

So, in pondering my grow room, I'm seriously considering using CFLs. My plants are bushy enough that I'm worried even a 400W HPS won't keep the bottom half of the plants' vegetation alive.

My thought is that CFL can be place all around the plants. I can hit them from 5 sides, possibly increasing my yield. (Versus a single-source grow light that would maybe make the top more productive, but leave the lower parts pretty much in the dark.)

The problem is, I don't want to buy more lights, so most likely whatever I got now would be used on my next grow. I have a friend that is an experienced SoG grower, who will be able to help me out. I want to introduce him to ScroG, as it is a method that appeals to me a bit more than SoG. So, I'm still trying to figure out for ScroG if CFLs could be used as effectively as a 400 HID.

From my reading here, it doesn't work out, but it seems that even in the past year or two, lumen/watt output has gone up while bulb price has gone down (1000bulbs.com has some killer deals and huge selection). So, I'm leaning towards trying a CFL ScroG grow, and maybe use one of my newly acquired plants as a clone factory. (I'm assuming since someone took the time to clone it, it's probably a good strain.) Another option is to go to the coop/club and buy some clones.

 

[JohnGalt]

Had a busy weekend, and haven't had time to post here, so today you'll get a condensed journal of my past few days. Also, still no USB cable for my camera yet, so I'll have to post the pictures I took at a later date.

8/20 - Removed some of the dead lower leaves and checked the soil moisture. No water needed today. (I don't have any fancy equipment for this; I just stuck my finger 2" in and it felt moist so I figure it was good.) Also checked multiple points around the plant to see if there are any male parts showing. We're having some cold overnight lows and I'm a little worried it might make my plants go hermie on me. So far 10/10 female parts noted on each plant, but gonna be a couple cold nights in a row coming up.

8/21 - Watered and introduced 1/4 strength bloom nutrients. I went cheepo and got some Miracle Gro nutes at Wal-Mart - don't want to sink a lot of money into these babies as between mother nature and human nature I'd be surprised if they aren't dead or stolen before harvest. If/when I'm able to move them indoors I'll be willing to spring for good nutes. I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure it's 18-24-16. If that sounds wrong/bad let me know and I'll double-check the box tomorrow.

8/22 - Due to high traffic near my property, only had about a 5-minute window to check plants. Mostly wanted to see how they reacted to the nutes. Tops still look very healthy, but noted something disturbing lower on the plant...

On plant #1, found two leaves (right next to eachother) that looked like they may have been eaten by some sort of bug. Whatever it was left half of each leaf uneaten, which is quickly browning and wilting around where it was chewed on. On another leaf, found a small black dot that at first looked like a bug, but on closer inspection I have no clue what it is... the best I can describe it is tarry substance, as if someone dropped a single droplet of tar onto the leaf... Hoping that's just bug crap or something but it wasn't on/near the two eaten leaves.

On plant #2, noted a couple more leaves that were browning/shrivling near the bottom. I usually assume this is due to lack of light that low on the plant, but this leaf had a couple light brown spots on it (the leaf itself was yellowish).

I took pictures of the suspect leaves, but alas can't post them to give you a better idea what I may be dealing with.

Can't remember if I mentioned it here already (and I am way to high to read my last post... geez the guy that posted that is long-winded...), but the plants are no longer noticeably growing in height. But man oh man are those flowers filling in fast.

 

[JohnGalt]

In addition to the above noted damaged leaves, also noticed something else...

When I moved the plants a few days ago, on of the pots fell over and smashed the plant against a brick wall. One of the stems was damaged; the outer skin was broken and you could see the interior white, woody structure. Today I noticed this hasn't healed yet; it looks almost like it did the day it happened. There's no sap/water leaking out that I can see, and the leaves/flowers above the injury all seem fine, so I think that means no vascular problems (that is, the water/nutrients are still flowing up the stem).

My only concern is that even slight pressure makes the stem bend fairly easily. As my flowers grow and add weight, I'm worried the stock might collapse and cut cause the flowers to die (wasting time/nutes/light/water growing something unproductive).

I'm considering using tape to splint the broken section. Anybody have any ideas on this? If tape is OK, what is best? It's a top stem, so it's only about 1/4" diameter, if that matters.

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[JohnGalt]

Bump and repeating request for help...

Went out today and even more leaves appear half-eaten and have tiny black spots. Spent a few hours searching here and Google trying to figure out what it is... but to no avail.

Affected leaves look green and healthy, other than the edges and the tiny black spots. There is absolutely no holes in the leaf and no discoloration other within 1/8-1/4 inch of the edge that has been eaten (which is brown and brittle). Close inspection reveals small black dots all over the leaf. The vast majority of these dots are to small to notice with the naked eye at any distance greater than 18 inches. One leaf had larger dots, which felt and looked just like dried tar. Also noteable is that the eaten edges seem to all go to the main vein that runs down the center of each leaf-blade (not sure what the technical term is). Not really much in the way of circular chew patterns (such as you would expect with caterpillars), mostly straight edges ending at/near a major vein.

My first guesses are caterpillars and crickets. Both are "in season" right now. The local hydro shop clerk told me to shake the plants and see if anything falls out, he said if it is caterpillars I should see at least one or two fall out. Tried it and saw nothing.

Anybody know what crickets might do to a plant? Do they even eat plants? (Can't find anything about it online really...)

Again, would greatly appreciate some help here. I know pics would help, but until I get my USB cable I am hopeful someone here can take the fate of my plants out of the hands of the UPS lady. (Supposed to be delivered tomorrow, but I'm rural, so could be an extra day or two.)

 

[braynes]

Could it be burn from the flowing nuts.?, You are sure not spider mites? are they on the bottom or top of the leaf?
and if your john galt can I be Rearden.
br

 

[JohnGalt]

First, the good news:

Camera USB cable arrived; PICS INCOMING:

Also, went out and spent some quality time with the plants, and... no newly eaten leaves! I did notice a couple large spiders in the pots, so maybe they ate or scared off whatever was eating the leaves (my guess is baby crickets because I found a dead one near the pots this morning).

OK, now for the bad news:

First, my camera ate all my pictures to date. They're just gone, so you won't be able to see the amazing growth and blooming that has gone on so far. (Also lost the pics of the half-eaten leaves, and hopefully I won't be getting the chance to take pics of newly eaten ones.)

Second, I'm about 95% certain I have thrips. At first I thought spider mites, but then I saw one of the little buggers and it was the right color to be a thrip. That and the black spots fit with what I've read about thrip feces. So, now the quest to find the cure...

(Note that in one of my pics you can see that one of my plants is in a bright yellow tub... read on this forum that thrips are attracted to yellow. So, may have to transplant that one into a different tub.)

Last bit of bad news, my camera sucks. It is auto-focus with no way to manually focus (at least that I've yet discovered), and it can't focus on things closer than 12 inches. So low quality I had to get a magnifying glass just to get the following closeup of a leaf to show the pest damage.

And another pic of the same leaf; blurry as hell, but shows the coloration of the leaf better.

 

[JohnGalt]

8/25 - plants didn't need it yet, but the high today is supposed to be over 105F, so gave them 1/4 normal watering to get them through the day.

8/26 - already over 90F and not even noon yet. Plants are drooping, and this is when I planned to water anyhow, so gave them full water with 1/2 str bloom nutes. Within an hour they were looking much better. with this heat I might have to water again tomorrow.

Late Night Update: haven't had a chance to spray yet, but took another leaf sample to put under the new microscope...

Saw what looks very much like a thrip, but it was not moving and it appeared to be caught in a tiny little spider web. Looking over the leaf i found a few tiny white specks, under magnification they look like webs. So, I'm thinking I may have both thrips and spider mites... ugh.

Major heat wave just rolled through, and the Safer soap says not to use it while it's over 90F. I was going to do it around dusk, but had a surprise visit from my further-right-than-Limbaugh-brother. Tomorrow will be milder weather, so I'm spraying first thing in the morning.

The good news is that most the leaves aren't infested (no noticeable white/silver marks where the chlorophyll was sucked out), and of the 6 leaves I have pulled I only saw one living mite (i have red spider mites, so they're pretty easy to notice as the look like orange specs of dust to the naked eye... the one I saw ran to the edge and crawled to the down-turned side of the leaf... took 4 flips to tire him out enough to sit still for inspection). So, hopefully this infestation won't be too much of a road bump in the blooming process.

Now I just gotta worry about the upcoming cold spell. (Yes, after having over 105F high on Weds and over 95F high today, by Saturday the high is supposed to be 73F... crazy weather.) Gonna be 3-4 days in a row where the overnight low drops below 50F here.

I've read that such stress can lead to hermies, but not sure if the plant can even do that this late in it's life cycle. We're a good 3 weeks into flowering, and the plants aren't showing signs of any new growth really. Either way, I've made it a weekly ritual to check several random nodes on each plant to make sure no male parts are popping up. I'll just keep doing that until I get them indoors at least. (Hopefully that will be in a week or two.)

 

[JohnGalt]

By the way, the 60x-100x pocket microscope sold at Radio Shack is awesome. Broke out some of the meds I got over the weekend to scope out the trichomes...

Now, I knew there were two kinds mixed in the bag... but now I know why. One of the buds had pretty dense trichomes all over it. The other buds had hardly any at all. I would be mad, but I paid half what I would normally pay for that amount at the coop, so even if half my bag is schwag I got a decent deal (just not the awesome hookup I thought I was getting).

Anyhow, anybody wanting to check their trichomes or look for bugs on your plant... best $12.99 I've ever spent. It seems a little flimsy (very light plastic), but at $13, I'll buy two more if I break this one.

 

[JohnGalt]

8/27 - Finally got to spray. Used Safer Insecticidal Soap Concentrate, mixed 1:50 with water per the label. Made 32 ounces of soap, sprayed the plants, soil surface, and the overgrowth and dirt around my plot.

Pulled a sickly leaf an hour after spraying and found a dead thrip and nothing moving. It was very satisfying knowing I was killing the buggers that were killing the plants.

 

[herbsnbuds]

nice outdoor man... I didn't realize the potential of outdoor... until I saw that

 

[QuadZilla]

Nice looking plant considering it was a free score. I wouldn't move it indoors if you want to grow indoors long term. I'm paranoid just going into the backyard to check my plants and coming back to my main grow area. Pests are everywhere, so why take the chance of contaminating future grows. As far as keeping them safe, put them in the ground. A pot is easy to walk off with, and the thief is almost certain to have a viable plant. But if its planted, you can't walk off with it, and even if they do dig it up to steal it, just be satisfied to know that they killed it, and will have to profit from it. The only concern will be harvesting. I know I've got some stress that was more likely than not stolen when it was still premature. So keep an eye and an ear out for people at all times of the day. Also, plan to pull it when it just reaches full maturity, don't wait and let the trichs turn amber. The longer its in the ground, the longer a potential thief has to steal it. This was advice given to me by a friend who has a fair amount of outdoor growing, and has more than a few grows under his belt.

 

[JohnGalt]

Thanks for the advice QuadZilla. I wanted to put them in the ground due to their out-growing their surroundings (thus becoming visible from greater than 2-ft away), but when I dug the hole I found a tunnel (gopher, methinks). With the underground rodents rampant in these parts, I see no way a plant this delicious would last more than a day or two.

There's almost always someone around the house, but it wouldn't be hard to hike through the orchard unnoticed (and the plants are not visible from the house at all).

However, other non-plant-eating pests do act as theft-deterrents. (Lots of wasp nests around my hide spot.) So, I can just hope the person who tries to steal from me is allergic and has to come to the house for help (I'd gladly give them some Benedryl for the return of my plants).

As for early harvest, I was thinking the same thing. Actually, I was thinking sooner, but not sure if it would be too soon... Anybody have thoughts on harvesting at 10% milky trichs (90% clear)?

 

[JohnGalt]

Meant to post this on Saturday, but it was another busy weekend and spent what little free time I had having an electrician tell me the wiring is from the 1930s and would be best to spend some money updating before going ahead with my plan. (Life-long friend, not just some random electrician, so no real security risk there.)

8/28 - watered (no nutes). Noted that some of the top leaves felt somewhat brittle, not sure if that's from the Safer soap from the other day or the cold overnight lows we've been having (my thermometer says it got down to 43F last night (with wind chill).

While I was out there I decided to take some pics to document the progress.

Pics incoming!

Side view (stupid auto-focus-only camera... grrr...)

Top view of the same bud (best macro pic I've seen this camera take)

This is the shorter of the two (by a few inches) with a tape measure next to it to give you an idea of the size. The bud on the back left (closest to the tape measure) is the one with the broken stem. Too bushy (and/or low-res lol) to see that about 6 inches down from the top it is wrapped with 1.5" duct tape.

 

[JohnGalt]

8/31 - Checked on my plants, and found them looking healthier than they have in the past couple weeks. Gave them each a gallon of water with 2/3 dose of nutes. (I realized today that my previous 1/4 and 1/2 doses were really 1/6 and 1/3 doses... apparently math is hard.)

Not sure if I already mentioned, but I recently got a pH test kit and found my water is above 8.0 at the tap. (Maybe higher, my kit only goes up to 8.0) So today I set out to learn how hard it is to adjust pH using pH Down. Tested the water (to make sure it was still 8.0 from the tap... I'm on well water, so who knows what might make the pH change day-to-day). Added nutes, tested again... and perfect.

Guess when I move to full nutes I'll probably need pH up.

 

[JohnGalt]

Oh, and the first little red hairs are showing up on the flowers, and for the first time since I got them you can smell their odor wafting in the air. Up until now I had to rub my hand around on the leaves to get a good whiff.

The good news is the harvest is over for the crop around my property, so far less chance of my plot being discovered (if it wasn't discovered already).

In other news, got a chance to talk to the guy that acted as middle man from the guy who had to get rid of these. Turns out there were actually 30+ clones when they started their journey. They spent 2 days without light in a car trunk, which killed most of them. Their 2nd owner further abused them with over- and under-watering, killing all but these two.

I'm thinking it might be worth cloning these plants... they took a ton of abuse and yet are thriving under the care of a complete novice giving them Rose ferts. Just not too sure about cloning a flowering plant... need to do more reading before I decide I want to undertake that adventure.

 

[JohnGalt]

9/3 - Watered with full dose nutes and added some SuperThrive to the mix (just discovered this stuff but I've heard great things). After watering did a thorough check for hermie parts, and found none. Sprayed with Safer's soap as a follow-up precaution to prevent the thrips/mites from returning.

While removing dead leaves and searching for hermie parts, I found a black widow in the middle of one of the plants. If I didn't have to put my hand in the plant regularly I would have left her there to eat anything that might eat the plants, but can't risk being bit, so she's gone now.

Noticed a little frost starting to show on the top leaves. Also, one of the lower stems that grew out sideways (reaching for the light) has broken right where it joins to the stem... guess the buds got too heavy for it. Taped it up; hopefully it will make it to harvest, but these things aren't even fattening up yet, so I'll probably have to give it a crutch.

PICS INCOMING:

This is a picture of the south-facing side of the plant (the side that gets all the light). Notice the beer bottle propped among the foliage?

Same plant from reverse angle (least light exposure, much less bushy); now you see it!

Now a pic to give you an idea how thick the top cola is getting:

Tried getting some shots of the buds/leaves with the trichs starting to show, but none of them turned out; hopefully I'll have better luck next time.

 

[JohnGalt]

9/7 - Watered with full dose nutes and superthrive. Plants only got about 1 gallon of water each over the past 4 days, so they were thirsty. Noted that most of the lower leaves had a slightly light green to them them. No yellowing, just the entire leaves and stems were fading. (Probably from underwatering.)

9/10 - Watered with pH'd water (no nutes). Noted the bottom leaves returned to their normal healthy green since last feeding. Plants were very thirsty again. When the temps go above 90F, I find I need to water every day or two. Below 90F I can go 2-3 days without watering.

Sorry, no pics. I took a bunch, but every single one was too blurry to be worth posting. Hopefully next time. (I know an artist who has a very nice camera. Near harvest I may see if she would let me borrow it, or maybe come out to take some pics around harvest.)

 

[Mmmmick]

Hi JohnGalt. I know nothing about outdoor growing but thought I'd drop in for a look anyway. Looks like you're getting your head around the whole growing thing. Nice thick green foliage and the tops are getting some fat on them.

A thought about the focus issue. Most digital cams will hild the focus and exposure settings if you hold the shutter button part way down. You could try to focus on something somewhat flat then, holding the shutter button partially depressed, move the camera until the plant looks sharp in the viewfinder. Then depress the shutter button the rest of the way.

Tried to rep your 9/3 update but I gotta spread some around first I guess.

 

[JohnGalt]

Thanks for dropping in Mmmmick.

Through trial and error I figured out that trick with holding the button partway down. Problem is it always focuses too far, so I end up pulling the camera a good foot further from my focus target than where I want to be. Thanks for trying, but I've admitted defeat and will eventually just have to get a better camera. But that'll probably have to wait until I can get a really good deal around the holidays.

Also, stay tuned as I expect to be getting an indoor scrog grow started in the next month or so. Was hoping to get things rolling by this weekend, but life happens... so looks like it'll be at least another week or two before I go buy some clones at the club.